Remind me never to read Orson Scott Card again

[TrogL]

Jaysus what a right-wing freak!

http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-07-21-1.html

[spotbird]

1. Don't read Orson Scott Card again.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[rock]

2. OK, don't ever read Orson Scott Card again

He doesn't have the slightest comprehension of logic.

[Terwilliger]

3. yep...standard Repuke defense..

When the speaker thinks it's true, it's not a lie, even if the statement turns out not to be true. It's a mistake when the speaker didn't know better. An error.

"He didn't know he was lying! He didn't know! It was that bitch, Condi! She did it! She was lying!" :eyes:

[Liberal_Andy]

4. I live in the same town as OSC,...

and read his rants in the Rhino Times. He claims to be a Democrat, but I've challenged him on that. I asked him which wing he belonged to, the "Trent Lott Wing" or the "Jesse Helms" one.

He's a dick.

[HFishbine]

8. Card

is published in the local weekly The Rinoceros Times (http://www.rhinotimes.com/). They liberally (no pun intended), publish letters to the editor. Why not let them hear your thoughts by e-mailing: [e-mail] (Put "For publication" in the subject line. Anonymous letters are allowed.)

[pbeal]

5. You didnt know?

The whole Ender saga is pretty much a Ayn Rand fantasy in space.
Anyway there is a buttload of Science Fiction authors who are wing nuts, mostly because of the perceived anti-science stance of the left.
The left is seen as an stumbling block on the way to space.

[cprise]

10. Its the Celestial Temple in space

The latter Ender books are Mormon theology: An infinite number of souls waiting to be born on an infinite number of worlds, each world with their own hero-god.

And each world (the interesting ones at least) is ruled by one religious or nationalist tradition. It's "Utah = Mormonism" extended to space, except aliens (American Indians?) and even the main Catholic characters are converted to this transMormon scientific religion that gets really strange and magic-like at the end.

Also, the different alien races are both polygamus, and we are left with an impression that this will have to be the course for human kind if it is going to keep up with polygamous aliens that can suddenly reach and colonize every planet in the universe.... like the old pioneer days when Mormons were moving in the vast western US along with other groups. :eyes:

As for your Ayn Rand reference... well, the books didn't seem capitalist to me. Perhaps there was an objectivist slant that I missed. I was introduced to the series by an all-out Rand worshipper.

[pbeal]

11. series has huge objectivist slant

even the tecnology works because the main characters will it to work.

[cprise]

15. So its a blueprint for the SDI/ Missile Shield

I see now :-D

[thom1102]

22. There's a perceived anti-science stance on the left?

Kennedy's challenge put men on the moon, environmental policies are fueled by global warming science that the right deny is even true. It was Bush's NASA administrator who killed the next gen Shuttle program. The lunatic right believes in Creationism, and it is the left that is anti-science? Never heard that one before.

[Az]

6. Um, don't read ..... you know

[liberalhistorian]

7. What really frightens me about this particular

repuke is that he is, apparently, a librarian (he mentions returning from a librarian's conference). You would think that a librarian would know better! I wonder how he reacts when someone comes in to borrow Living History or Blinded by the Right???

[shimmergal]

9. I don't think he's a librarian.

As a librarian, I would have heard, because we _do_ keep track of those in our nearly-invisible profession who make it big elsewhere.

He probably was a guest speaker at that conference.

[Lisa]

18. nearly-invisible but incredibly important ...

Librarians know all the inside info. My contacts in the library world hadn't heard of Card having any library training (formal or informal).

All this is rather ironic, because the damage inflicted by US air power in Iraq and Afghanistan reminds me of one of Card's first stories, "Ender's Game" (where the government and military essentially trick a soldier into committing genocide for them -- he doesn't realize that what he's doing is NOT just a simulated exercise). Maybe Card should read his early stuff!

[MuseRider]

12. I have always loved OSC's books

he makes it no secret that he is LDS and that his books are mostly patterned after that doctrine. I did not have any idea he was a winger. That is too bad and I had never gotten that impression. Still, he is an accomplished writer and as with everything else it is a personal choice to read or not to read. I am sorry to hear this about him.

[cprise]

14. It really is amazing

Although his books have strong character development and dialogue, his own current-events writing is miserable! He is nothing near the "geniuses" his describes in his novels, that's for sure.

[JHB]

13. He must have missed the memo...

Well, did the Left respond with approval of his (Bush 41) doing exactly what they demanded that he must do? Not at all. It was all about what a liar he was.

Hey, Orson, it wasn't "the Left" who got on his case about the "no new taxes" thing, it was "the Right."

But the Left doesn't actually care about the truth value of accusations of lying. Clinton was a liar and they knew it, but all through the Whitewater and Monication scandals, they kept insisting on more and more documentation, rather the way Creationists insist on seeing every single generation before they'll admit that evolution has been proven.

Except, unlike Creationists, the documentation showed that the Whitewater "scandal" was a pile of horsedump and "Monication" was part of a deliberate effort to get something -- anything -- on Clinton.

First, it's campaign season.
Second, the very people accusing him of "lying to the American people" are the ones who assured us that Clinton's lies under oath weren't bad perjury. Certainly not worth impeaching him.
Third, he didn't lie. They know he didn't lie. So when they say or imply that he was lying, they're the liars.

First, these days, it's ALWAYS "campaign season" for something. That doesn't give him the right to puff up his case with falsehoods.

Second, Clinton's "lies under oath" did not involve matters of state power, influence peddling, nor the launching of wars with no specific provocation.

Third, he did lie, you jacka**. He has a demonstrable track record of lying. When we say or imply that he was lying, it's because he did.

Geez, Orson, you're supposed to WRITE about fantasy worlds, not live in them.

[paulk]

16. I've read a lot of his books

but not recently, I have to say. I knew he was LDS, but some of those books were pretty good. I've had a harder time forgiving him these last few years for putting so much of his ideology into his work. And this editorial !!! Full on freeper shit. Such small mindedness... dissapointing.

[amazona]

17. Card's a two-faced psycho

Big scandal in the SF community back in the day...he got his first Nebula when, strangely enough, he was the one counting the votes. He pretended not to understand why this didn't pass the smell test. Although I'm told he can be quite ingratiating when he wants to be, all I've encountered is the psychotic, threatening side of this wacko's personality. I read enough of him when he was first coming up to get quite enough of his "cult of cruelty" stuff. I leave him to the freepers and to the naive.

On Edit: In case there is anyone who doesn't know, the book in question was called "Ender's Game" and it's your classic shaggy dog "the video game was realllll" in which our hero wipes out the alien race, called (I kid thee not) the buggers. It was a pretty straightforward appeal to put-upon homophobic boys with power fantasies. Ugly stuff. And the sequel was even less attractive...after that, I felt I'd done my part for being well read in this area.

[hunter]

19. Oh for goodness sake...

Lighten Up!

I first crossed paths with Mr. Card when we both thought the Atari 800 was the hottest computer on the planet. ( God, I loved those machines... )

Okay, so he freaked out a little bit once he got a wife & kids for his very own -- he went "back to his roots," so to speak. Sadly, the sheer terror of that experience does that to some people, and, by God, Card finding a wife, well gosh darn it, that was a True Miracle. I can't count the times God has made me tremble.

But I must say the guy has never gone "two-faced psycho" on me. Maybe that's because I'm the "two-faced psycho" here. Shit... I cuss and drink, and I go to Catholic Church every Sunday. And now I'm gonna write a letter to the Pope telling him how cool it would be to have a gay Bishop, just like the Episcopalians do. Oh no, wait, I'm sure the Catholic Church already has quite a few gay Bishops!

So it ain't gonna hurt me to buy any paperbacks Card writes, I mean not compared to all those contortions I go through whenever I give money to the Catholic Church. It's not always easy to shoot all that loose cash into the "radical left wing collection basket," but whenever I do it, it's like scoring three points in a basketball game!

Oh, by the way, I should probably shut up, and I won't say any more about this.

:toast:

[Blue-Jay]

20. Ridiculous!

I've enjoyed his novels, and will continue to do so. What would you suggest? Maybe boycotting every damn thing that's authored by someone who's politics I disagree with?

Listen: Card is not running for public office, therefore his opinions are just that. Opinions. He's entitled to them.

I'll continue to listen to music, regardless of the musician's political beliefs. I'll read what I like. I'll watch whatever movies I think will be enjoyable. Sue me. Entertainment has shit to do with the direction of the country. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'll continue to vote for liberal candidates, but I'll be damned if I judge artistic merit based on nothing other than one's party affiliation.

Good books are good books. Good music is good music. Good movies are good movies, etc... Putting a political slant on every-damn-thing isn't my thing.

Maybe I'm a bad liberal in your eyes, but I judge art on it's own merit.

[ikojo]

21. Blue-Jay is correct...

Imagine the outcry if a "liberal" said they would not listen to Michael Jackson on account of his race. People would be up in arms about that and rightfully so.

Is it any different when judging entertainers on their political affiliation? I don't care for Ah-nold because he makes bad movies. His Repukeanism is secondary to why I don't like his movies.