About all these "civilians" in Iraq ...

[TahitiNut]

Is unemployment in Iraq so low that they have to import workers? Are these "civilians" like migrant workers taking jobs no Iraqi is willing to perform for the pay? I don't think so.

When I'm seeing news reports about Chinese, Japanese, American, European and other foreign "civilian workers" in Iraq I'm wondering what it is about the jobs these folks are doing that makes any Iraqi unqualified to do them.

Could it be merely that the companies don't want the salaries paid to actually become part of an Iraqi economy? (Isn't that an indication of a serious problem?)

Carpetbaggers and mercenaries. I find myself unable to work up a bunch of extra sympathy for a foreign national traveling to Iraq in order to join in the pillage (carpetbaggers) and rape (mercenaries) of that nation. To the degree it's assumed that no Iraqi could be "trusted" to perform some job there, it seems we're seeing a far more hostile and adversarial occupation than our media has been willing to portray. I have far more sympathy for members of the military who're not being personally enriched and have little choice about their deployment. I have very little sympathy for carpetbaggers and mercenaries.

____________

I really have to wonder about how an ordinary Iraqi feels seeing foreigners come in and occupy the palaces that were once occupied by Saddam and his cohorts who, at the very least, were Iraqis. At least those palaces were built using Iraqi labor. How does an ordinary Iraqi feel about carpetbaggers living in "luxury" hotels and "liberated" residences, working for and with foreign occupation forces for a salary that an ordinary Iraqi can only dream of? How does an ordinary Iraqi regard these people who neither speak their language nor share their religion?

I once had similar thoughts about Vietnamese who worked in menial positions on the larger US military bases, where even an ordinary GI grunt lived better than most Vietnamese. We had running water, decent dining facilities, air conditioned offices, and many more amenities that were not common in Vietnamese towns and villages. And we weren't anywhere near the better off foreigners - the "company" folks were blatant in their relative "wealth." :shrug:

[chookie]

1. Interesting observation

>>Could it be merely that the companies don't want the salaries paid to actually become part of an Iraqi economy?<<
One way economy -- siphoning off Iraqi wealth, but not contributing to it. Many of the lauded rebuilding we hear about are simply the erection of investment opportunities for Americans.

I don't have the figures in front of me, but some weeks ago I read about foreign workers in Iraq, and a comparison of salaries paid today to Iraqi workers, foreign workers (i.e. Bangladeshans) and Americans. Breakdown of salaries of people working for Colation of the Killing: Iraqis get paid $100-300 monthly, foreign workers get $300-600 monthly, and Americans get $3000-6000 monthly. Mind you -- the Americans aren't highly trained professionals, like engineers, but unskilled, like truck drivers. What the heck is that all about?

The jobs can be done by anyone, really. If there was a serious interest in establishing stability in Iraq and moving forward, why are they not cultivating relations with Iraqi workers? Why is Halliburton shelling out $3000-6000 a month for some American to drive a truck in Iraq?

Another conclusion is that the idea to bring in foreign workers was cooked up a long time ago. Despite the notion that the USA was going to be welcomed with flowers and cookies, the plan actually made operates under the assumption that Iraq will be too chaotic to provide a secure workforce.

Call me a meanie, but while I give our men and women in uniform my 100% support, I am having problems feeling really bad for the shit that mercenaries get into in Iraq. It is the sworn duty of our servicemen to put themselves into harm's way, but the mercenaries are there for the bucks, and apparently Halliburton was able to tempt them with whopping oodles of cash. No one *sent* them to Iraq -- they chose to go there. Any one who makes a choice like that ought to understand the risks involved.

The media is trying to peddle these guys as "really concerned about helping people" and "making the best out of economic hard times" -- but I don't buy it. There are other ways to deal with both of these conditions than becoming a mercenary in Iraq.

Now it looks like we are going to be losing more service people to avenge the deaths of the mercenaries and carpetbaggers. That sucks.

[TahitiNut]

2. (cough)

:dunce:

[chookie]

3. kick

I think this is an interesting poinnt and am hoping to get this discussion going again, due to the shutdown earlier today

[bloom]

4. the unemployment in Fallujah was over 70% a couple of weeks ago.

Getting jobs with the US - training to fight - was about the only job around.

It's disgusting.

Now they don't want to fight Iraqis. Is anyone surprised?

[TahitiNut]

6. Yeah ... it's called an "all volunteer" Army.

... even in Iraq. :eyes: (Remember, "they hate us for our freedoms.")

[chookie]

5. "a thriving cottage industry"

ABC News Tonight about a week and a half ago had a story about how private US security firms have sprung up in the aftermath of the war in Iraq, one analyst calling it "a booming cottage industry." It's seen as a way to make a quick buck, exploiting the situation in Iraq. Creepy. To the best of my knowledge, in no prior American war has private security or contractors been utilized as in this war. You have to wonder what gives.

Bremer made a serious tactical error in dismantling the army and pplice. ANYONE who has studied regime change knows that rule #1 is "Don't kill the bureaucrats or the police" -- because you will sabotage any hope you have of making it effective. I think Garner may be the next guy to sing -- he has made some preliminary remarks which suggest he is gravely concerned about the turn things have taken since Bremer assumed control of the occupation.

Not sure what the figures are, but I wonder how much of a percentage "temporary war help" is of the proported "Bush job growth miracle" of last month.

I sadly wonder if these "contrat workers" knew what the hell they were getting themselves into. It looks like Halliburton had a real major recruitment drive on in the past months, and were able to get a lot of people who were facing hard times due to the bleak economy. CBS News tonight said that Halliburton was snapping people up with no experience whatsoever. Yikes. Such an example is the hostage from Mississippi, Hamill, who was trying to save his familiy from collapsing into ruinous debt.

What sense does it make to send all these Americans over to do jobs that any Iraqi can do?

I dunno -- it's kind of spooky have security firms running around Iraq who are not bound to the same code as our military, whose only loyalty, technically, is to their companies. I really don't know what the planners were thinking when they designed their reconstruction this way.

I guess the analyis of "the Vulcans" like Wolfowitz and Rice was that the US needed to fear alliances that might occur between the Shiites of Iraq and those of Iran and Syria. Ooops. Looks like what we have to fear is an alliance of Iraqis with Iraqis.

[TahitiNut]

7. There were lots of "grey ops" during Vietnam.

We had LOTS of 'civilian contractors' running around Long Binh and Bien Hoa. (Saigon was overrun by 'em.) Remember the Air America namesake? Much of what we did in Laos and Cambodia was with 'civilian contractors.' It's not new, but it's gotten far more blatant and extensive.

[havocmom]

8. The invasion of Iraq evidently allows for corporate take over

Reminds me of what European immigrants did to the Native American populations: "OK, we're here now. Turn over all your resources to us' We bring you christianity, small pox and the concept of the land title deed and all we want in return is everything/"

It is like the citizens of Iraq do not exist but to annoy the carpetbaggers and get into mischief. Gee, ya think they might want us off their land? It's the cradle of civilization, not the friggin moon.

I so want all CEOs to get outsourced.

[DemoTex]

9. Flaunting it. PA&E Vietnam-style.

We had a PA&E (Pacific Architects and Engineers) guy in Nha Trang in 1970 who imported a 1970 Impala SS convertible through the Philippines. He loved to cruise Nha Trang, and up and down QL1 from Cam Rahn to Tuy Hoa, in his Impala SS rag-top. Beat that for civilians flaunting it in a combat zone. Idiots!

[G_j]

10. Very good point

I feel so sorry for Iraq, they are just getting raked over the coals over and over again.

**Here is an excellent website tracking revenue issues in Iraq.

http://www.iraqrevenuewatch.org/

[TahitiNut]

13. The Iraq plantation demonstrates the corruption of 'privatization' ...

... of a national resource, converting the wealth of a nation into the wealth of a few. Iraq's oil has been and continues to be controlled by narrow private interests and has been of little benefit to the ordinary Iraqi. Autocratic regimes and plantation economics, notably fought by Chavez in Venezuela, are mechanisms and systems whereby the wealth of a nation is used for the benefit of only a few already-wealthy interests. Indeed, it is exactly this kind of corporatist/fascist predation that the Taliban resisted in Afghanistan.

[G_j]

14. and this is the heart of the matter

on top of which chaos and disorder can actually make for more profits and less scrutiny.

[greatauntoftriplets]

11. VERY interesting observation.

The Iraqis would work for less money too. But a lion's share of the purpose of this whole mess is to enrich numbnuts' buddies (and campaign contributors).

Any blather about how the regime "cares" about the Iraqi people is pure BS.

[G_j]

12. kick

[Az]

15. Consultants

When companies move into new territory they first send in consultants. These people get the systems started and do the initial ground work. Later the begin to bring in local labor. Typically however foreign interests maintain management positions.

[anarchy1999]

16. I've been wondering the same for days now.

Why do we need all these foreign contractors to drive trucks? Iraqi's can't drive? Something is way off here...........

What more can we ask of a criminal administration and a bunch of thieves? This group has been at this game for 30 years, you think they are going to stop now? Hell no!

Shame on us all.