"We are NOT doing enough to stop dissent"

[prolesunited]

CSPAN caller this morning. She claims that speaking out against the war is tantamount to TREASON and protests give aid and comfort to the enemy.

Are they so uncertain of their beliefs and convictions, that they feel it necessary to silence dissent? How often do you see people on the left wanting to silence them?

I don't understand this thing about protests giving aid to the enemy. I think it has its origins in Vietnam. Could anyone enlighten me?

[gator_in_Ontario]

1. dissent is tantamount to freedom....

tan·ta·mount ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tnt-mount)
adj.
Equivalent in effect or value: a request tantamount to a demand.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tantamount


It is essential to freedom...

[DarkPhenyx]

2. "tantamount to freedom"?

Is that a typo, or am I completely missing a point?

[prolesunited]

12. Whoops!

Fixed it. Obviously should be TREASON. I guess that's what I get for posting before I'm fully awake while trying to get ready for work.

[DarkPhenyx]

14. Suffering from EMCD?

Early Morning Caffine Deficency. :)

Seems to happen a lot around here. Lord knows I've suffered under that affliction.

[skippysmom]

3. I've heard a lot more of that sentiment lately

For a while, the idea that dissent was at best unpatriotic and at worst treason seemed to have died. But now that Iraq is becoming bloodier the patriotic correctness police is back. It's enough to make me scream.

[nostamj]

4. i guess she won't be coming to my show...

:shrug:

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." Thomas Jefferson

[vi5]

5. I heard someone this weekend reference Ho Chi Mihn (sp?)

saying something that he knew the american effort in vietnam was doomed when the protests over here got very loud and very difficult to ignore.

I don't know the accuracy of any of this or what specific statement this person was referencing.

[Kitsune]

11. Didn't Ho Chi Mihn die in like 1968? *nt*

[vi5]

16. Perhaps not him then.......I'm working from memory...

..and my memory is not very good. Some quote from some Vietnam leader at some point.

How's that?

[NewJeffCT]

6. Those hooligans that dumped tea into Boston Harbor!

My goodness, I can't believe anybody would protest the Crown back in England. They only have our best interests at heart. We should be thankful we have the people of England to rule over us and tax us at their whim from thousands of miles away.

[GainesT1958]

7. Sounds like what she MEANT to say was...

"Dissent is tannamount to treason".

Which is, of course, one of those "Big Lies".

I think such a sentiment really started back during World War I, with hysterical reaction to anything remotely sounding "German". But when this ridiculous idea really took off was in the early years of the Cold War, during the McCarthy Era. That's when Sen Joe McCarthy, R-Wis., made it popular for everyone to suspect--and accuse--anyone with a progressive idea in his or her head of being a Communist, or, at the least, a "Communist Sympathizer". The problem with this was that it threw many talented people out of jobs, and "blacklisted" them from getting work in their field again, i/e in Hollywood, and in education. The BIGGER problem, however, was that for a brief time it so compromised our freedom of speech and expression in this nation as to make us little better--on that score, at least--than the Soviet Union and its KGB we all claimed to be so "Anti-American way of life".

Sound a lot like Dub and Ashcroft and their right-wing supporters today? YOU BET it does!:mad:

B-)

[salib]

8. This is not a "war" in the sense she used

I heard her rant on C-SPAN as well. She was comparing our excursion into Iraq and our hunt for Al Queda to the classic examples: WW I and WW II. She might as well have been saying "Loose lips sink ships" when she gave her primary analogy (letters from reletives that were censored, and how that was necessary because someone might accidentally say or write something that would aid the enemy). This is a foolish comparison, but goes to the heart of why fals wars must not be allowed in a repulic, like ours. Either Congress declares war on someone, or it does not. If not, then we are NOT at war and cannot afford to behave like it.

[DemLikr]

9. This shit is sounding like the Vietnam era all over again.

As things fall apart for the war-mongerers, they begin to turn on those who dare to call attention to the errors of their ways.

Same attitude greeted early war protestors as Vietnam began to fall apart; several years and many thousands of lives later, a majority of Murkans FINALLY conceded the protestors were right and we pulled out of the war.

Hey, but I was ONLY a tiny child at the time, not very old at all...!

;)

[Q]

10. Seems to me it's the Bushies giving aid and comfort...

...by invading Iraq and allowing those who plotted 9-11 to go free to do more harm. No one wants to talk about the MAJORITY of the hijackers coming from Saudi and the blatant way the Bushies are trying to protect their sponsors.

- Protesting would be considered 'treason' in a banana republic or dictatorship...but not in a 'free' country with a Bill of Rights.

[Avalux]

13. I heard her

she was a bit wound up, something should be done to silence those of us who are aiding and abetting the enemy by speaking out about the war. She kept saying "we are at war", which apparently means our rights should be suspended.

Scary.

[LeahMira]

15. WHOSE dissent?

She claims that speaking out against the war is tantamount to TREASON and protests give aid and comfort to the enemy.

I'm sure there are people in Iraq who aren't happy with the uprisings in Falluja right now. Matter of fact, Terry Anderson was on morning TV today expressing the hope that some of the other religious leaders in Iraq would state that hostage taking and such is not Islamic. If that should happen, do you think it would "give aid and comfort" to the nations whose citizens are now held hostage?

I imagine the people in Iraq who have the same goals as the US has for Iraq are keeping their heads low right now, but even if they were able to speak out, would that "give aid and comfort" to the US? Would they be considered traitors? I think too much is made by the right side of the aisle about protests.

If things were reversed and the left were running things, would the right be guilty of treason? Did they "give aid and comfort" to our enemies when they focused on President Clinton's sex life to the exclusion of anything else... like intelligence that might have warned of what was happening in this country right under our noses? Like accusing President Clinton of "wagging the dog" when he took out what was left of Iraq's WMDs back in 1998? I'll bet Osama was getting a lot of "aid and comfort" from that pointy-nosed, sanctimonious crowd. Heck, he probably thought Americans were just about begging for some good Islamic morality! Monica under a burka... imagine that!

Are they so uncertain of their beliefs and convictions, that they feel it necessary to silence dissent? How often do you see people on the left wanting to silence them?

No, I think they are frightened. In a way, that might be good because at least they are wondering what if the US loses? I do think that they are more troubled by perceptions and image, though. I don't think they are as afraid of fundamentalist Muslim radicals coming here and tormenting all of us as they are of the world starting to see the US as flawed, imperfect, and not the biggest, baddest dog on the block.

And sometimes I do see the left wanting to silence them. I just responded to a post that asked if possibly non-DUers were just too stupid to breathe. I imagine the poster made the comment more in frustration than in sincerity, and everyone gets frustrated now and again, but those sorts of remarks turn people off.

[procopia]

17. "and the first thing Bush did was volunteer for Vietnam"

Heard this on C-Span; was this the same lady? She said Kerry went to Vietnam for a photo-op, but Bush took his training, and the first thing he did was volunteer for Vietnam.

[Avalux]

18. Same lady -

didn't she also say they wouldn't take him (poor Georgy) and that Kerry should release military records as shrub did??

Shoulda had the twilight zone theme playing in the background.

[Bozita]

19. "500 MILLION soldiers fought in the Civil War" -- same lady

wow!

[prolesunited]

20. IRRC wasn't there a check-off box

on the form and Bush didn't mark it. Anyone have that link? Or was that just a Photoshop gag?