Atheists & Agnostics - You Still In The Closet??

[matcom]

I admit I am.

all my neighbors wished me a 'Happy Easter' this morning and asked what we were doing today. I told them 'Nothing. Its another lazy Sunday for us.'

One of them told me "that is too bad. you are welcome to join US in church if you like."

I told them "no thanks."

but I am kind of pissed at myself. Why should I hide my non-belief? Why should THEY assume i am a 'lonely Catholic' or something (i use that because i live in MA and well, that's what all my neighbors are).

then i turn on CNN and they are doing a special on what they call "America's Minister: Billy Grahm"

i will NEVER compare my 'being in the closet' with that of the gay community or the civil rights of blacks, but i must tell you....

This time of year, i really get a little sensative. might be more so THIS year with all the Passion stuff

[jonnyblitz]

1. being both gay and atheist...

I have found I am, many times, more accepted for being gay than being an atheist, believe it or not...

[Prodemsouth]

7. I believe it and it would prove polls right. Most make that all polls on

American attitudes show a far more accepting attitude of gay people than atheist. Atheist are not even in the double digits. Gays are anywhere from the high 40s to the mid 60s on acceptance.

[RapidCreek]

17. I'm an agnostic on the atheistic side

I wear a shirt with a Darwin Fish around town on it and drive a pickup with Darwin fish appliqué on the back. Some in the neighborhood cross the street when they walk by my house. Frankly I could care less if someone doesn't accept me because of my lack of religiosity. In fact I appreciate when they voice or act out their opinion in that regard. It makes it so much easier for me to separate the chaff from the wheat.

I celebrate Easter....for sure. It's one of my favorite Pagan holidays. After my 75 year old agnostic, easter bunny mom comes to visit I stuff my face with chocolate bunnys, Jelly Beans and marshmellow chickens.....yum, yum, yum. I BELIEVE IN THE EASTER BUNNY!!!!!

RC

[Ladyhawk]

36. Hmmmm, interesting.

As an "out-of-the-closet" atheist, I've thought that atheists were one of the last groups it was OK to oppress. God knows (ha ha) I was never harassed this much when I was a Christian. :)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Just smile

and realize they were just trying to be friendly. I have a similar problem-I don't advertise that I'm a Sufi. Found that if I said some of my beliefs to freepers I just got a long harangue while they tried to 'save' me.

Better to smile and talk about the weather.

[displacedtexan]

23. My best friend in grad school was a Sufi.

She lived across the way from Kahn in Santa Fe, and she sometimes prepared his meals and played with his kids.

One day, I was outside her house and saw him taking a walk: the image was pretty powerful, even for a confirmed atheist: the long, flowing white robe, the chiseled facial features, and the serene bearing gave me chills.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. Khan?

You mean Pir Vilayat Khan? Couldn't be his father, Haz. Inayat Khan, because he passed on in 1927....if you are referring to Pir Vilayat, he is still alive and living part time in France and part time at the Abode of the Message in New Lebanon, NY, with his son and successor, Pir Zia Inayat Khan.

Peace be with you, and thank you for a beautiful picture of a Sufi.

[DietVanillaCoke]

3. Well,

I'm quite indifferent. The Christian holidays don't bother me at all. Besides, I can snicker at the fact that the roots these Christian holidays are pagan if I really felt like it. But I don't.
It's just another day for me. Although, it's annoying as hell that the banks were closed for Good Friday.

[yardwork]

4. Sounds like your neighbors know that you don't believe.

They're trying to get you to join their church so you won't be damned to hell. Christianity is the only religion I know of that proselytizes endlessly. Many Christians firmly believe that their's is the only true religion, and anyone non-Christian will go to hell.

It's extremely annoying. I try to remember to feel sorry for them because they live in a very scary world, full of potential pitfalls. In their belief system, one false step and the devil will pounce.

It's relevant to the time in which we live, because Chimpy's base is made up of these folks. That's why a lot of them will vote for Chimpy no matter what. Their preachers tell them that if they vote for Kerry, we'll all go to hell. (Maybe not your neighbors, if they are MA Catholics. Lots of midwestern and southern fundies believe this, though.)

It's very hard to argue with such deep-seated fear-based religion. I'm not sure how to reach them. Arguing with them just makes them dig in their heels.

[Ladyhawk]

38. Arguing with fundies makes them lose it.

Recently a fundy friend tried to get me back into the fold. The expression on his face as he rambled on about evolution being false and God being good and if you don't there's no hope...well, quite frankly, he looked like a madman.

If I'd had any sense I would have left his house immediately instead of trying to hash it out with him. I promised myself I wouldn't listen to madmen anymore.

[unblock]

5. i'm basically "out"

but i'll confess to being tactful rather than blunt on more than one occassion.

part of the problem is that i think "god" language is more divisive than informative. everyone's got a different vision of what god is/are. so saying you believe in god become more of a loyalty test than a statement of actual meaning.

whenever i have an in-depth conversation with almost anyone other than a fundamentalist, it turns out that we believe virtually the same things. it's just that what i call the wonder of humanity, they call god. what i call the marvel of nature, they call god. what i call the amazing circumstances of creation, they call god. what i call the joy of holding a newborn and the hope for tomorrow, they call god.

personally i think my language is more illuminating, but to each his own.


my point is, many "believers" don't believe in an "extrinsic" god, i.e., a god that's an independent force, like a man up in the skies lording over us. most believers actually believe in an "intrinsic" god, i.e., a god that's a part of all mankind of all things, perhaps even an epiphenomenom of mankind and nature. such beliefs are quite reconcilable with atheism and/or agnosticism.

[Political_Junkie]

10. wonderfully put, unblock

I agree wholeheartedly

[RapidCreek]

21. Your talking about secular humanism. EEEEvil, bad, bad, bad.

RC

[SpartacusSC]

34. This Christian agrees with P Junkie.......mostly......

but for some of us there is an extrinsic and intrinsic part. They are really the same thing (metaphysics are a tough thing to articulate).

In terms of the larger topic, I can understand. I feel a certain social pressure here because I am a Christian (of sorts) and I'm willing to come "out" as one. Its just my belief, and I'd feel pretty hypocritical if I didn't express it (just as you might when you express doubts or disbelief). For what's its worth, I feel a similar pressure when dealing with fundamentalists.

All of these issues are extremely personal, and I hope we will eventually reach a point where we can believe in whatever speaks to us and be who we are without fear of persecution.

Hang in there. :)

[NewHampshireDem]

6. That's actually kind of funny ...

because I find it easier to tell folks that I am an agnostic than to tell them that I am a Buddhist.

Let me clarify ... I consider myself an agnostic Buddhist. For me, Buddhism is a philosophy, rather than a religion. But, the point is, I think agnosticism is probably more widely accepted than non-Judeo-Christian religions and philosophies.

[NinetySix]

29. I can fully relate to that.

I consider myself a christian, but not a Christian. There are many points of contention that I have with those dogmatic theists who call themselves Christians, for instance, that what they call "God" exists in the form of Jehovah (I find it far more likely that any god which actually exists is so transcendent as to be unknowable); that a living man returned in physical form from the dead (an article of faith that I simply can't swallow whole cloth); and even that Jesus was crucified (there is some contention regarding this--the Koran says that another was crucified in his place, and although I am not Muslim, this raises a doubt in my mind that the accounts, written some 70 to 100 years after the Nativity, are wholly accurate without further corroboration).

Nevertheless, all that precedes the crucifixion in the story of the Passion is infused with a kind of existential truth and a value beyond its particular factual status. Just as Aesop's fables are not factual stories about real animals and events in their lives, and perhaps more pertinently, just as Plato's dialogues which prominently feature Socrates cannot be taken to be a strict biographical account of his life and thought, the stories found in the four Gospels are almost certainly written with an eye toward advocacy of the individual motivations of their respective authors rather than toward historical accuracy. There was certainly a real historical figure at the basis of the modern literary figure of Jesus, but do the historical Yeshua and the literary Jesus bear any particular resemblance to one another? Does it matter?

I find the ethical principles espoused by the literary Jesus instructive and useful. Give the same consideration and understanding to others as you reserve for yourself. View your life as a voluntary exercise in service to others. Meet ignorance, hatred, and even violence with understanding and compassion in order to overcome it, and you will overcome your enemies by converting them to friends. These seem part of a cogent ethical system to me, and in adopting them fully, I find it only proper to call myself a small 'c' christian. I simply wish more capital 'C' Christians would adopt them as well.

[SpartacusSC]

37. Brilliant post 96.........

[NinetySix]

43. Thanks, Spartacus

I assume you're in Spartanburg? I went to school at Carolina. I'm not a native Sandlapper myself, but naturalized from a very young age.

Thanks for the pat on the back!

[SpartacusSC]

45. OT: No, I'm from the midlands, just a Stanley Kubric/Dalton Trumbo fan.

[Prodemsouth]

8. Atheist organizations in American especially in the 60s made all of this

possible. They were not exactly public relations pros.

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. Whatever G W Bush believes in . . .

.
.
.

I DON'T!

[Rex]

11. Agnostic here.

I've gone to church with friends & family in the past, it is a good experience and allows me to see into their mindset. Don't be afraid to express who you are. Most of my family are Southern Baptist and they all know my opinion on religion. I always try to respect others views on life and have found it gets returned in kind.

[Generic Other]

12. I only whore myself for the chocolate bunnies and marshmallow peeps

at the store. Yeah, yeah..."Easter" candy...now gimme those jelly beans, dammit...

[rock]

13. I deny your presupposition "still"

I never was in the closet about being an atheist

[no one in particular]

14. I have to be "in the closet".

One of my part-time jobs is being a Music Director at a fundy Baptist church.

I can't afford to lose the pay!

[boobooday]

15. I'm out

I've never been able to hide it. Although I do have a sincere admiration for the teachings of Christ, just not the way they are used by some people who turn them upside down.



http://www.wgoeshome.com

[chaska]

24. Say it loud....

Actually, I'm pretty mellow about it. Mellow, but open. Very open. I've helped many to think the unthinkable. There are lots of people, who are complete sceptics, that just can't let them selves have those thoughts. That's where I come in. I give them permission, in a sense.

The truth shall set you free.

[eleny]

16. I just tell people I'm a retired Catholic

Enough was enough. That deity is a nutball and not nearly perfect enough for me to worship.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

52. BWAAAAAHAHAHAHA *cough* *choke* HAHAHAHAHAAA

Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read your post. :D

Know what? You should design shirts 'n caps with that line and sell 'em through CafePress (you give them the design, they process the orders). Or do it yourself if you know how.

"Retired Catholic." It's funny cuz it's true!

I am out but I don't wave it in anyone's face. My friends and family who are religious are all smart and decent people who don't shove their beliefs in my face either. I wouldn't want them to feel I consider myself smarter than them for not believing what they believe, because all I know is that I don't know. As for everyone else, it's none of their business.

[wryter2000]

18. I'm not in the closet

But I'll still wish people a happy Easter or Christmas. It's part of my culture. I usually don't make an issue of religion, although I recently challenged someone on a non-political board when he claimed that liberal humanists are ruining the country.

[mopaul]

19. it doesn't come up much, but i will admit it if cornered

my mother and father were sucked into the born again cult by my younger brother, over 30 years ago. they helped me become the atheist i am today. never been happier, a great burden lifted.

but i rarely run into others of my ilk, and when any of my many churchgoing friends invite me, i tell them i'd probably ignite if i walked into the front door. if they push me and ask what religion i am and i tell them atheist, that's usually as far as it goes, and they never bother me with it again, and i don't make negative comments. i believe in freedom of religion sincerely. and i'll accept any sect as long as they don't start doing like the bornagain pains in the ass

[RapidCreek]

20. I tell them if I walked into their church the holey water would boil

over onto the floor. Hehehehe.

Un-religious, un-baptized and damn proud of it.

RC

[Ladyhawk]

39. I envy you.

I'm tired of people trying to bring me back into the fold.

[ixion]

22. I have the satisfaction that all Christian holidays were originally pagan

so I wish them a hoppy easter, and smile quietly to myself.

Hey, that's Freedom of Religion. ;-)

[BigThama]

51. Well...

Its not so much that the meanings behind the holidays are pagan, just the times of year and some of the symbols associated with them. Corporations have picked up on the pagan aspects (Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, eggs, etc.) and have made those pagan aspects far more central to the holiday in the mind of the average American drone.

[ixion]

57. right... I wasn't really concerned with meaning

it was the time of year that the church used to override the pagan holiday that was originally in place.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Malva Zebrina]

25. athiest checking in

it should be obvious to anyone who is unsure, with this current regime of Christian piety in disgusting display, that religion is not an integral part of one's life unless one needs an excuse for evil or revenge. If one needs an excuse for "love" and finds that in religion there is only one thing to say, logically. Christian love is not in evidence and hisorically over time it has been most exactly the opposite.

We do not need "Christain love" in order to love our fellow human beings and to understand what it means to do the "right thing"

We can love without all that nonsense and historical shame that religion brings with it.

and we can face reality. We can use our brain and we can think logically. and we can rest assured and can relax without being afraid of some "punishment" after death,k which most religions promise to those who think.

[alfredo]

26. I am out to my friends, most of my family don't know. I just don't

think about it much. I don't mind the Pagan aspects of the holidays. I'm an atheist but I like partying and feasting like the next guy.

[Guava Jelly]

27. i am not

if god exist i hate the jerk

[Hamlette]

28. I was outed at work

lapse of judgment on the part of the person who did it but I understand. I had outed myself to like thinkers (you'd be surprised how many atheists go to church for social acceptance.)

Anyway, I was outed when my dad died and all but one of them accepted it I think in part because of the circumstances.

They are very careful around me. Whenever they say something like "he's a good mormon (I'm in Salt Lake, you hear this a lot to describe people)" they quickly add: "not that people who don't go to church aren't good people too" and they pat me on the arm.

Good on 'em.

[BigThama]

50. Ugh...

You're in Salt Lake? I pity you then. Even as a Mormon (in NC, Baptist country) I can't stand the attiture of most Utah Mormons.

I honestly find it preferable to be a religious minority that is only moderately tolerated, as Mormons are in the South. Those who belong to the majority religion in an area do so, more often than not, because it is easy. Muslims in the US, atheists in the Bible belt, and religious people in heavily secularist nations such as Russia and Japan (just ot name a few examples) actually have to believe what they claim to believe in order to hold fast.

[Darranar]

30. Out. n/t

[HawkerTyphoon]

32. No,

but I don't have a sign hanging around my neck. If anyone asks something about why I'm not going to church I'll tell them. If they want to know how I feel about some religious question, I'll just say there's no evidence to support any of it.

Most of the people I like don't seem to get too upset. Of course, that might define who I like and don't like. ;)

[frank frankly]

33. i hear you completely

Easter is NOT a universal holiday. it means nothing to me.

the birds returning means something to me.

the flowers returning means something to me.

the long pale sunsets means something to me.

[Ladyhawk]

35. I stopped hiding a couple of years ago.

Fundamentalist religion did a lot of damage to me. I got tired of hiding my unbelief and just started telling people. If they try to proselytize me, I walk out on them.

After believing that happy horseshit for the first 21 years of my life, I am now extremely embarrassed that I ever believed in the first place. My only excuse is that I was thoroughly brainwashed through home, school and church. Nowadays, if someone thinks I believe, I will rectify the situation immediately. I don't want to be lumped with the non-thinking, fundy types that live in my area.

Still, there are legitimate reasons to keep it a secret. If "coming out" may cause you or others more harm than good, then keep it in the closet.

Try reading Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker. It's very validating.

[Room101]

40. I'm a Atheist right out in the open

Everyone I know is aware that I don’t believe in superstitions. :evilgrin: I just started reading Gore Vidal’s "Julian" ;-)

[TimMooring]

41. Don't Feel Guilty

Intellectualism is the highest ideal - it is characterized by the search for truth. Religious ideology is characterized by faith in a belief system. The spectacle of Mel's snuff-film along with the catholics little problem may help more people to snap out of it. I believe they should teach religion in schools; in history class. It would be of immense value in understanding moral systems and human development. Being polite is perfect.

[Blue_Chill]

42. Stop hiding it you big sissy

:)

Just tell people you're agnostic or whatever and move on with your life. Most people won't care and the ones that do are asshats anyway so screw'em.

[Progressive420]

44. I believe in a God

I believe in some aspects of the Christian religion but i just cant bring myself to go to a Christian church because most Christian are not open to religious tolerance i dont care what other people believe its not any of my business if your an atheists great if your a Christian great just dont try to infleunce my beliefs because what i believe is my own and none of your business thats the way i feel anyway i just think people should be more tolerant of each other Christians Especially

[NightTrain]

46. Fuck no!

In fact, I've never been in the closet about my atheism.

I am what I am. Fuck anyone who disaproves!

[newsguyatl]

47. pretty much outta the closet here

tho i'm still forced to "celebrate" easter and christmas with the family.

[leesa]

48. I always feel a sense of pity, or some day she will come around...

My Mom always says, well we gave you the basics...she hopes it will all come together some day, I guess. It's frustrating because I feel very spiritually whole and comfortable with there being a God or not being a God. I have no idea so I don't worry about it. I feel that if God exists and he created us, he would just love us and all these rules and regs made up by men, like the bible,etc. are just silly things that God probably rolls his eyes at.

[Lars39]

49. I'm out and being shunned for it.

:shrug: Things really haven't been better. :)

[Only Me]

53. Hello everyone...

I am a Christian and I for one, feel bad that you have had bad
experiences with other Christians being intolerant to any of you.

I would never want to make someone feel isolated, bad or uncomfortable simply because they don't believe the same way
I do.

My God has a huge heart and very liberal. I do not appreciate it
when some people say they are Christian and then be arrogant, judgmental or nasty and use religion as their excuse.

By the way... My mother is Christian, my father is Atheist, one brother is Atheist and one brother is Gay and Christian.

It gets even more complicated as it goes on...Ha,Ha!! :)

[NNadir]

54. Mostly I'm in the closet with family and coworkers.

With my family it'either to avoid wars, or with some of the older ones, to spare them pain.

Interestingly my nine year old son is quite open about his atheism. He pulls few punches. He's a better man than I am.

On the job of course, being an atheist is a big no no.

People think that bigotry against gays is the last legal bigotry. It is not. The bigotry against atheists is enormous.

Good topic!

[Skittles]

55. religion - ALL religion - gives me the creeps

and everyone who knows me knows that

[troublemaker]

56. The only proudly persecuted minority

Even gay-bashers try to be a little PC about their attitudes, but atheists? Fuck 'em. Bush the First said they are not even qualified for citizenship.

I saw a guy on TV flogging his book about "America's Goofiest Laws", or something like that. The usual stuff--pigs have to wear pants in North Dakota, etc..

One of the Hi-larious goofy laws was that an atheist cannot run for public office in Tennessee. Haw, haw, haw!

I will hereby coin the term "king James Crow."

[anti_shrub]

58. I don't consider myself "in the closet"

I just don't advertise, just like how the Bible said Christians aren't supposed to advertise their beliefs.

My quasi-fundy friends will try to steer conversation towards religion, but they quickly become frustrated by the fact I have yet to drop to my knees and re-accept Jesus because of a book that supposedly disproves Evolution.

[kurtyboy]

59. twenty-some years ago, the sergeant inducting me into the military

asked what religion I was. I replied "athiest". He typed onto the form, and my dog tags came out "Agnostic". Figure that out...

I still have the tags.

To this day, I am careful not to actually say I am an athiest. But whenever someone asks about holidays, I tell them that we (my beautiful wife and I) do not observe them.

"Have you got your Christmas tree up yet?"
"We don't really celebrate Christmas."
"Where are you going for Easter?"
"We don't really think of it as a holiday."
"The Johnson's daughter was in a car wreck and is in a coma--will you pray for them?"
"Absolutely. God bless them." (We're not callous, after all...)

What I find amazing is that people don't seem to pick up on the fact that, by our acts, we're athiests. Even my sister, a born-again baptist, can't figure this out. Frankly, I figure they're all in denial.

Anyway, the answer to he question--YEAH, I'm kind of in the closet, in sense that I don't make it a point to accentuate my atheist views. But that's kind of what my views are all about, anyway....

[newsguyatl]

61. ...

"Have you got your Christmas tree up yet?"
"We don't really celebrate Christmas."
"Where are you going for Easter?"
"We don't really think of it as a holiday."
"The Johnson's daughter was in a car wreck and is in a coma--will you pray for them?"
"Absolutely. God bless them." (We're not callous, after all...)


ha! i got a good chuckle outta that last one.

[cryofan]

60. Best you not come out at work

Unless you are at the top of the hierarchy.

[FDRrocks]

62. No

I just kinda walk around, do my thing. If someone tries to bring up religion with me in a confrontational non-productive way I usually just shoot them a quick look, just to let them know I acknowledge what they said, and don't reply.

[Terran]

63. I'd have thought your response was a good coming out.

"Another lazy Sunday" says, to me, that you don't recognize Easter as being anything special. That's pretty much how I spin it to my co-workers, who are both Catholic but cool about it. For me, today was another Sunday spent at my part-time job. My boss was telling me about her weekend plans to travel with family, and I told her, "I'm always the godless heathen in any office I work in." So I guess you could say I'm definitely not in the closet. I think I've gotten too old to bother with making up cover stories for anything.

Dirk

[kikiek]

64. Beliefs

I think this is all from Machiavelli's theories on how to retain power. Finding a religion, and whatever will do, was one of the key points in reigning people in. The willingness of people to give up their free will amazes me. I wonder if the majority of people really want a democracy. Democracy is not a spectator sport. When you are being lied to you have to work to find out the truth. Despite the death of real media we have the internet to help with that search. It has never been easier if you are so inclined. Not to mention book after book exposing this administration. To top it off they use religion to shroud their deception. Pun intended.

[Stuckinthebush]

65. Not me, baby!

And I live in the middle of the Bible Belt.

My neighbors and friends all know I'm an agnostic, and I wear that with pride. I kid with my next door neighbors about it, and they seem to like the joking.

By showing those around you that you are a good, moral, upstanding citizen and not a Christian is an extremely beneficial thing. It helps them come to a more universal understanding of what it means to be "good".

So get out of that closet and enjoy the daylight! You won't regret it.

[Piperay]

66. In the closet agnostic

I keep it pretty much to myself. I told my brother but he is an agnostic too, though he tends to lean alittle bit more toward believing than I do. I would never tell my father because though he is a good liberal Democrat he is also religious and I know it would pain him (he's in his 80's, so why upset him) if he knew I didn't believe.