do you realize how QUICKLY LBJ bugged out after Tet?

[buycitgo]

Ron Kovic, who certainly has earned the right to voice his opinion on the matter of Vietnam/Iraq parallels was on briefly tonight with Marty Kaplan.

he VERY strongly asserted that we are in as deep a quagmire already as we became embroiled in 68, when the war turned very bad in South Vietnam

he also strongly supported Ted Kennedy's powerful condemnation of dumbo's insane policies, saying that we need more voices like that; voices like those who rose up during and after 1968, voices of the PEOPLE, voices that helped to end THAT criminal abrogation of the Geneva Accord/UN charter.

check this editorial in the ususally wingnutty Chicago Tribune for "professionally" written treatment:

On Jan. 31, 1968, Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, the brilliant North Vietnamese military strategist, sent 70,000 troops against every provincial capital in South Vietnam and Saigon itself. The assault took U.S. commanders by surprise. They had been expecting the traditional cease-fire on the occasion of the celebration of the lunar New Year or Tet. The cities in the South were overrun as were the grounds of the U.S. Embassy in Saigon.

Eventually, the U.S. military turned back the attacks and killed thousands as the North suffered a major military defeat. But in defeat, they had scored a massive psychological victory. President Lyndon B. Johnson and his military chiefs had been assuring the American people that the tide had turned; that the U.S. had killed so many North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters that they could never again launch a major attack.

With the Tet offensive, the American public turned against the war, the mood within this country turned bitter and the president did not stand for re-election.

Recent events in Iraq show a disquieting parallel. The killing and mutilation of the four civilian contractors in Fallujah began the carnage. Then the hell-raising, 30-year-old Moqtada Sadr led an uprising in Sadr City--the Shiite slums of Baghdad named for his father, Iraq's most revered Shiite cleric who, with his two elder sons, was murdered by Saddam Hussein. The uprising spread across the Shiite South. With at least a score of U.S. deaths since Fallujah, there is doubt that President Bush's plans can ever bring stability to Iraq.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/printedition/chi-0404090085apr09,1,3441196.story?coll=chi-printcommentary-hed

gets better......or worse.....depending on your POV

"ever"

as in NEVER, ever

jesus

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

1. Yes, he announced he wasn't going to "seek or accept"

the nomination on March 31, 1968. He knew he was toast and Dr. King was dead 5 days later.

[NoPasaran]

2. LBJ's speech that night

Is the first speech I distinctly recall seeing on TV. I had turned twelve a week before.

[buycitgo]

3. would that something like that happens here

don't think it will.....these people are cut from a different cloth

make that paper

toilet paper

[DAGDA56]

5. As I type this, the irony hits me...

LBJ had more of a sense of honor than GWB...now there's a damning assessment.

[On the Road]

4. Wow, NoPasaran,

I was about to post the same thing -- that it was my first political memory after vaguely recalling the JFK assassination. I was 14, watching LBJ's speech by myself for some reason, and remember running to tell my family the news when he surprised everyone.

[buycitgo]

6. well, I have to admit, I was trying to feel up my girlfriend for the first

time, so I don't remember it that well

I DID see Bobby Kennedy speak about a week before he was murdered, if that counts for anything

[jobycom]

7. LBJ compromised his soul, but at least he had one to begin with

LBJ never wanted to escalate in Viet Nam, but he was too weak to oppose his advisers. The tapes released over the last decade show him trying to argue that we should pull out of Viet Nam, but being bullied by his Ivy league advisers to send more troops. He made a horrible mistake, and it cost him his presidency, and many believe it killed him.

Bush has no soul. He could care less how many kids he's killed today.

Both men committed horrible atrocities, but one of them enjoyed doing it.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

8. The reason I remember the date is

I was in the hospital, I was 14 and had my appendix removed the Friday before. Mom and Dad were up visiting, Mom and I were talking about nothing really important and my Dad, who was a lifelong Roosevelt/Truman/Stevenson/Kennedy/Johnson Democrat, told both of us to be quiet and listen to the speech. When LBJ said that line, Daddy said he knew that was what he was going to say.

My eldest brother was in Viet Nam at the time and the look on both my parent's faces was priceless. Daddy was overjoyed because he honestly thought that Bobby Kennedy would get the party's nomination and my mother naively thought that my brother would be home really soon.
Everyone knows what happened to Bobby Kennedy and my brother, thank God, came home in one piece a week before the election in November, but he did serve 12 long months in 'Nam'.

I'll probably get crucified for saying this but LBJ wasn't the worst. I hated his stance on Viet Nam, but he did do some great things domestically during his term.

[jobycom]

9. That's how I feel about LBJ

He deserves to be in the highest pantheon for Civil Rights and the Great Society, he deserves to spend some time in Hell for Viet Nam. He's the most enigmatic president in our history.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

10. I think LBJ did spend some time in Hell.

I remember seeing a newsclip of him right before he died in January 1973. He was at his Presidential Library, I think, he had a haunted look about him.

He did some pretty shady things during his political life, but from what I've read about the man, he did have a human side, unlike the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[jobycom]

25. Yes

I worked for a friend of his for a while. LBJ was broken over Viet Nam. Many people say he died of a broken heart. Doesn't excuse what he did, not by a long shot. But W won't feel any remorse, and more than his bloody father does.

Damn Texans. Quit electing us, we just keep starting useless wars.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. He also deserves to spend even more time in hell for his role...

...in the JFK assassination.

[buycitgo]

13. I wondered when that would come up

he was Marcello's bagman in Texas, according to some accounts

OTOH, the history channel had to apologize for their apparently highly inaccurate documentary, alleging that he was deeply involved

I've read a bunch of stuff on that, and, like most of it, don't know where the truth lies, except that Oswald definitely didn't do it alone, if he had anything to do with the shooting at all.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

15. Could you give me some information/links, etc.

regarding his "role" in JFK's assassination? I'm not being sarcastic, I was only 10 years old in 1963 and the first question I asked my Dad that day was "Did Vice-President Johnson have anything to do with what happened?"

Daddy, of course, said no, but I've always wondered why I asked that particular question.

Anything you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

[buycitgo]

17. try these for starters

http://www.google.com/search?q=marcello+lbj+++jfk+assassination&btnG=Search&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1

very controversial, to say least

btw, I went to H-F!

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

18. What is H-F?

I think I know, but I'm not sure. You have to be from Chicago or one of the suburbs. The "do you know where your children are" is a dead giveaway.

WGN curfew warning during the late 1960's. Remember 10:30 pm Monday-Thursday, 11:30 pm Friday & Saturday, and back to 10:30 pm on Sunday night.

[buycitgo]

19. yep.....Homewood Flossmoor HS

Oak Lawn was in same conference then

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

22. I didn't go to Oak Lawn HS.

I went to a small Catholic co-ed HS in Chicago called Little Flower. It was closed by the Archdiocese in 1974, sold to the CPS and is now known as Scott Joplin.

Anyway, all Chicagoans and Illinoisians(? sp) have to stick together and vote for John Kerry and Barack Obama in November.

The 'resident' "evil-doers" have to go back to where they came from and if there is any justice in the world instead of going back to Crawford, TX, et al, they'll all end up in Marion, Leavenworth, or possibly that high-security federal prison in Colorado whose name escapes my brain right now.

[jobycom]

23. Ah, yeah, riiighhhhtttt

Sorry, but I was talking about the real LBJ, not the fictional one.

[DerekG]

16. Great assessment, Jobycom...

LBJ was our greatest...and worst. Just thinking about it is maddening.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. LBJ signed NSAM 273 on November 26, 1963, four days after JFK's...

...assassination excalating the war in Vietnam. LBJ had lost his soul in Texas, if he ever had one, LONG before the White House became his on November 22, 1963.

<http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM273.html>

[buycitgo]

14. did I hear you on the radio the other day?

pretty cool!

[jobycom]

24. No, that's an ignorant view of his life

First, JFK had plans to escalate the involvement in VN even while he was telling others he wanted out. LBJ just did what JFK had already begun to do. LBJ's role in Civil Rights was much less ambiguous than Kennedy's, too. Thurgood Marshall loved him, and thought of Kennedy only as well-meaning, but not sincere. (Marshall disliked RFK-- said he was mean).

If your view of LBJ is that simple, you don't know much about him, outside of conspiracy theories and other nonsense. He was complex, but he definitely had a good side to him.

As for selling his soul in Texas, it's a dirty place to practice politics. Everyone gets dirty.

[swag]

20. Will Bush pull a Johnson?

Sorry to be so puerile.

haw haw haw - pull a johnson - haw haw

[buycitgo]

21. reminds me........."Don't change Dicks in the middle of a screw....."

"Vote for Nixon in seventy-two"