Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Does anybody think a Kerry Administration will bring back the draft?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:01 PM
Original message
Does anybody think a Kerry Administration will bring back the draft?
This is a question worth raising.

I get the feeling that if Kerry gets elected, the quagmire in Iraq will continue with our forces not pulling out. Our military personell depleted because of this. I will bet a President Kerry would send more troops to Iraq. And dare I say it, he could bring back the draft. How Kerry has forgotten his experiences in Vietnam plus his own activism starting Vietnam Veterans Against the War. His past will come back to haunt him if he continues Bush's failed adventurism.


John
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't see Kerry doing that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Strong possibility
He is not talking about ending the occupation or pulling the troops out. This can't go on indefinitely without a shitload of fresh meat. Not MY son!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. We must bring back the draft. Kerry will see the wisdom in this.
Without the draft Americans don't care about death and destruction and our Foreign Policy can't be debated.

I say this sadly, as one who wanted the draft ended. We must bring it back. We must sacrifice if we are going to have this "War on Muslims."

This is what Sharon and Zionists want, the Fundamental Christians want, and the PNAC want. This is what many of our Democrats want because they voted for this carnage in Iraq.

Therefore, we must bring back the draft. I can't stand against it any longer. I'm tired of being tarred as "Anti War." Bring back the draft and those who don't understand about Viet Nam will learn what it means to have no control over who goes and to see how to "beat the system."

Bring it back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Don't bring it back. Bring our troops home!
Edited on Fri Apr-09-04 05:11 PM by Cascadian
The draft will be a very divisive issue among liberals and Democrats in general. I will not support it and if I were of draft age I would seriously consider a move outside the U.S.

Do not support the forced militarization of our young people.


John
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. "WE must sacrifice"?
Do you have children approaching draft age? Apparently not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes..."sacrifice" them to war.
This is half-baked to consider the draft. Young people must defy this.


John
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. We were not asked to sacrifice after 9/11. A war such as Bush and Repugs
Edited on Fri Apr-09-04 05:20 PM by KoKo01
and "Complicit Democrats" want against "terrorism worldwide" will need sacrifice like what happened in WWII and in GB during WWI.

We have not sacrificed for 9/11. Therefore, we need to restore the draft and pay the costs of this "endless war." We have been asked to do this, but not told what it would cost.

But, it's obvious we don't have enough troops for "endless war against Osama and Muslims" therefore we need bodies and money to continue this so we can be "safe" in our Homeland.

Saftey is of prime importance to all of us. They've made Americans hated the world over.

We will have to sacrifice because of this. All of us, our children, grandchildren, parents. The "war on terrorism" doesn't come free and doesn't come cheap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. Proportional draft
Do a demographic analysis of the troops that are most in danger in this war. The grunts.

Match that up to the demographics of the nation.

Perform a draft to reconcile the grunt demographics to the national demographics.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SayitAintSo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. I think if this goes on much longer - we won't have a choice.
A draft will spread the burden a little more fairly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. He will not bring it back and if he EVEN THINKS ABOUT IT.....
we Democrats will give him HELL!!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. I bloody well hope so.
It's outrageous that not one member of Congress has a child in the fight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. He may not have a choice.
Can Kerry unstir the hornets' nest? I wonder....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Kerry will not upset the "hornet's nest." He will work within the system.
He will be an "interim" Pres.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Honestly I do think it's possible but it doesn't rise to a level of
PROBABILITY in my view.

First, to address your main point. There are really (and I KNOW there are other candidates) TWO CHOICES for who will end up in the White House based on voting patterns. One choice is George Bush who WILL have NO compunctions towards drafting people and doing so inequitably towards poor and minorities. The other is Kerry who would probably have a more fundamentally fair approach WERE we to reinstate the draft.

I say it is POSSIBLE but not PROBABLE at this point as anyone with a scintilla of brains KNOWS the Iraqi's want the US as an occupying nation OUT. In order to do that, we must have a true multinational force in there to train their security. No doubt that WILL include American forces, but I would suspect that other UN nations will be MORE empathetic to a diplomatic president who doesn't profess or practice unilateralism and brinkmanship.

That said, as was witnessed with the Fallujah incident, we are PAYING a ridiculous sum of money to private military companies to do work in this war that was previously tasked out to our forces but has become a PRIVATE enterprise, thereby masking the actual number of troops committed and ALSO enriching private military's with NO similar allegiance to the US constitution as our defense forces. Frankly, I'd rather see a draft than a growth of private militias which is in essence, the taxpayer underwriting the undermining of their own democracy by enriching private enterprises here in America that COULD very well be called (NOT LIKE THE MILITARY) to act against Americans in the event of uprisings here.

The upside to a draft is LESS public support for interventionism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:14 PM
Original message
That's easy for you to say
if you're not going to be personally affected by it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't mean it in a callous manner and I do empathize with parents
who have children heading toward draft age..but LOTS AND LOTS of those parents AND their kids voted for Bush who has created an economy propped up by perpetual war. I KNOW that falls UNEVENLY on those that don't support his policies...but please don't think it's something I arrived at by careless or callous thought...it really ISN'T easy to say considering the fact that two years ago NOBODY would have even considered NEEDING to bring back the draft.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. I'm draft age (19)
and it'll be a cold day in hell when I fight for George W. Shrub's penis extension...er, military.

I don't see Kerry bringing the draft back...I trust him to find a better way to solve this ugly Iraq issue. He'll do what we should have done for a long time--bring them home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. I know you are not a callous person
and I can see where, in theory, it would be a means to get the general populace to wake up. However, it gets a LOT more emotional when you are personally involved. There is no WAY I would sacrifice my beautiful boy to the designs of these murderers, even if it would ultimately result in some sort of massive consciousness raising.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. A while back there was advice posted for
Conscientious Objectors on DU. I would support anyone with any family member at stake to refamiliarize themselves with the process.

I don't have the thread bookmarked but I know others do. Given your very valid concnern about this you might want to start a thread asking if someone bookmarked it so you can print out the info in the event you should ever need it.

Regards
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. NSMA, you assume like "my hope" that "private contractors" will have a
hard time if draft is reinstated. I think they "might." But, how do we really know? Privatiztions is the "cat out of the bag" going off looking in "unaltered state," for other cats to "hook up with?" How do we know this will solve anything? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. No.
Reinstating the draft would mean political suicide.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Ditto.
It doesn't look good if you try to draft people and they
all refuse. It is a fallacy to think they can just order people
to go to war and they will all show up and perform. We have
a "volunteer army" because the system broke down in VietNam.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. No. I think that he'll be able to bring in international support because
Edited on Fri Apr-09-04 05:22 PM by w4rma
he'll change the objective to building a democracy with power stemming from the Iraqi people, instead of building a government to weld power over the Iraqis. I think that with an objective like this, he'll be able to bring in a good deal of international support as, I believe, most nations want to see Iraq stablized.

I think that he'll be able to convince many of the folks who want something for themselves out of Iraq, that it would be better for the country to govern themselves and for no world power to control them, than for America to waste our resources on a quagmire there in trying to complete Bush's objective of a cheap oil source for big oil companies and a well placed launching pad for further middle east military actions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lightbulb Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. How do you ask a man to be the last person to die
for a mistake?

Do you think those words still mean anything to him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. No, but Dubya would have to.
He already plans to after the election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yes
I don't think that the country will be able to avoid a return to the Draft no matter what happens in the next election. Simply put we don't have enough people volunteering or reenlisting. There are other reasons too of course, not the least of which is that it takes a lot of otherwise unemployed youth off the street until they mature a little bit. It also gives an administration a tool by which they can pump money into the economy, particularly at a local level, as in swing states, where an increase in military payroll can make a big difference. They can play the basing of military personel just as effectively as jerrymandering districts in giving folks a false sense of the national economy. Anyway, my point is that there are other reasons beyond an anctual need for troops in war why a draft might be put back in place and they will be the same no matter how it goes in November.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. Here's what we must do.
Get the word out. Bush doesn't want to hear the word "draft" until after the election. So plaster it everywhere, call in to talk shows on TV and radio, write letters to the editor: The draft is coming if Bush wins. "Do you feel a DRAFT?"

Personally, I think Kerry would pull out of Iraq before he'd reinstate the draft. He wasn't crazy about this war in the first place. If he gets the troops out early enough, we might not see the high attrition rates people are predicting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's interesting that very few on DU want to discuss this...and it needs
to be discussed. Maybe some view this as an "anti-Kerry" thread and don't want to bother, or others think "draft" isn't a reality.

But! the DRAFT is very much a reality. And, where Kerry stands needs some input...I don't know why more don't have opinions on this? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. From what I understand of the PPI doctrine, Kerry will not pull out
and I think he will escalate -- which likely means a draft will be necessary unless they keep extending tours of duty or call up more National Guard/Reserves. I also wish he would address the growing quagmire. For a quagmire it is.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fluffdaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. I hope so
Freedom is not free. Passing around the cost is a good thing.

I serviced did you ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dawgman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. no I didn't "service." Nor will I allow my child to "service"
Edited on Fri Apr-09-04 07:12 PM by dawgman
We (as a country) haven't fought a war worth fighting since the second world war. Our foreign policy is aimed at stopping the citizens of foreign nations from doing monetary harm to US based corporations, NOT to keeping you and I free. The idea that what we have fought for, for the last 60 years, is US freedom, is laughable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. More Likely Kerry will be able to internationalize
Kerry will go to the UN.

Kerry will mend fences with our allies.

Kerry will try to do the right thing for the Iraqi people, not for Halliburton and GWB's friends in the Oil Corporations.

Kerry will not bring back the draft unless there is no other choice. He has said over and over that we will not go to war unless we have to (not because we want to), and that soldiers will never go to war for oil.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
botchan Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe, Hopefully
It may still be possible for a new administration to negotiate with other nations to establish a more global peace keeping initiative. Regardless of our efforts however, Iraq will be in a state of civil war as soon as (or sooner) all troops are withdrawn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kerry's service makes it more likely
I think the reason Bush hasn't done it up to now is because he didn't serve in Vietnam and avoided it. If he tries to reinstate the draft, the inevitable questions of him dodging a draft that he would force upon everyone else would soon appear. Kerry OTOH, does not have this worry.

I can see Koko's point about bringing the draft back because most were for the Vietnam War until the induction of the draft. I think he thinks the same would apply here. That people would see the futility of a neverending war.

But I don't think the war on terror is a conventional war. It is a police action and should be dealt with likewise. But sadly I think that Kerry may be in the same corp pocket and will likely be used by the corps to "make the world safe" for globalization. Which is precisely what this "war on terror" is about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. I predict Kerry will escalate the war.
You heard it here first folks, don't forget.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greatauntoftriplets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I have thought that for some time, Sterling.
Edited on Fri Apr-09-04 07:08 PM by greatauntoftriplets
I remember the 1968 election all too well.

On edit: I believe this because what incentive do other countries have for getting involved in Iraq now? They risk massive demonstrations from their citizens and possibly a replay of what happened in the recent Spanish elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. Word
We are in agreement
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. Agree. Which is totally why it's Bush vs Kerry
The Corporate Elite demands that the war go on & go on it WILL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gothmog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
30. I do not see this happening
If and when Kerry gets the US out of Iraq and/or bring the UN in as a true partner, then things will settle down. The Reserves are not going to re-enlist and the US is going to have trouble meeting recruiting goals for some time but I just do not think that Kerry is going to have to bring back the draft.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Van Helsing Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
31. I don't think he will..but it could happen.
If he does, he's not going to get help from this DUer. I will not fight in a war....EVER! I don't believe in it...I will never fight, especially in this war. It'll never be won. There'll always be unrest in the Middle East.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SmileyBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's not gonna happen with Kerry in charge.
You're just thinking of the situation all wrong if you think Kerry will initiate a draft.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
33. No
his odds of reelection would drop to 0.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SayitAintSo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. I fear that whoever wins will have to reinstate the draft
Our troops are getting depleted. Our allies as well. Can we really afford to hire the Blackwaters of the world to fight our wars ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
39. He should if nothing changes.
Bush should do it now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kitsune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
42. Of course he will.
Kerry wants to beef up the military with 40,000 more people, and if he thinks anyone is going to join with Iraquagmire becoming even more of a clusterfuck every minute, he's even less together than I thought.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mick Knox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
43. I agree with those saying.. whoever wins.. draft is a real possibility
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
44. yes. of course
because most current enlistees will bail and he's not going to "lose" the invasion of Iraq. He'll let some other president down the line do that after tens of thousands are killed.

Why am I voting for him? Some days, I really have to wonder.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
45. he'll probably have no choice . . .
as deaths in Iraq increase, enlistments will decrease, and by the time Kerry takes office, a draft may be the only avenue available to maintain the armed forces at their current level . . . and don't forget that Kerry has said we'll need an additional 40,000 troops, at least temporarily . . . whatever changes he may want to make in foreign and military policy will take time, and during the interim he's going to have to protect our troops and American civilians in lots of dangerous places (like Iraq, for example) . . . I also think he'll probably want to provide some relief for the reservists who have been activated and in war zones for obscenely long periods, and that can only happen if you replace them with regulars . . .

so he may have no choice but to institute a draft . . . hopefully it will be temporary, and offset by some long term plans to reduce our obscene military budget by reining in some of those deployments we have all over the world . . . but it seems that the Democrats are pretty much on the same page as Bush regarding America's macro role in the world (i.e. some form of American hegemony) . . . the differences are in how each of them would cultivate that role . . . Bush does it with bombs . . . I would hope Kerry will put more focus on words wherever possible . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Only Me Donating Member (631 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-09-04 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
46. I agree with those saying Kerry will feel pressured...
to initiate the draft or some form of it. We are in so deep, I really don't see them just pulling out now. My biggest fear is because of my teenage boys.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/foreignpolicy/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
50. Kerry has not addressed this issue the way I want him to
As a former Dean supporter, I always appreciated how Dean came right out and told us what he planned.

But Kerry -- I can't figure him out. Yes, I'm going to vote for him, and I've already donated to him, but I wish I knew what he planned for Iraq, beyond "getting the UN involved," which seems like a no-brainer to me.

I guess that politically, it'd be suicide to say "let's just get our boys out." But the only alternative left to him is escalation and ... the draft.

Please, please Kerry, don't go there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
51. He's already talking about 40,000 more
Edited on Sat Apr-10-04 11:28 AM by Tinoire
& I don't see them lining up at the recruiting stations so yes, in a heart-beat if Bush won't be gentleman to do it for him before he takes power (if there's a change of the same old guard) and of course, Kerry will vote for it and spend the next 4 years wailing about how his vote was mis-used but he still stands by it. That line sounds a lot more sincere when Edwards says it- Kerry needs to stop mimicking the other candidates when his actions don't back up their words.

====


“I do not fault George Bush for doing too much in the war on terror;
I believe he’s done too little.”

Kerry. 27th February 2004



“Fighting a Comprehensive War on Terrorism”
Remarks by Senator John Kerry at the Ronald W. Burkle Center for International Relations

February 27, 2004

University of California at Los Angeles


As Prepared for Delivery

It’s an honor to be here today at the Burkle Center – named in honor of a good friend and one of America’s outstanding business leaders.

Day in and day out, George W. Bush reminds us that he is a war President and that he wants to make national security the central issue of this election. I am ready to have this debate. I welcome it.

I am convinced that we can prove to the American people that we know how to make them safer and more secure – with a stronger, more comprehensive, and more effective strategy for winning the War on Terror than the Bush Administration has ever envisioned.

As we speak, night has settled on the mountains of the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. If Osama bin Laden is sleeping, it is the restless slumber of someone who knows his days are numbered. I don’t know if the latest reports – saying that he is surrounded – are true or not. We’ve heard this news before.

We had him in our grasp more than two years ago at Tora Bora but George Bush held U.S. forces back and instead, called on Afghan warlords with no loyalty to our cause to finish the job. We all hope the outcome will be different this time and we all know America cannot rest until Osama bin Laden is captured or killed.

And when that day comes, it will be a great step forward but we will still have far more to do. It will be a victory in the War on Terror, but it will not be the end of the War on Terror.

This war isn’t just a manhunt – a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe.

As CIA Director George Tenet recently testified: “They are not all creatures of bin Laden, and so their fate is not tied to his. They have autonomous leadership, they pick their own targets, they plan their own attacks.”

At the core of this conflict is a fundamental struggle of ideas. Of democracy and tolerance against those who would use any means and attack any target to impose their narrow views. :wow:

The War on Terror is not a clash of civilizations. It is a clash of civilization against chaos; of the best hopes of humanity against dogmatic fears of progress and the future.

Like all Americans, I responded to President Bush’s reassuring words in the days after September 11th. But since then, his actions have fallen short.

I do not fault George Bush for doing too much in the War on Terror; I believe he’s done too little.

Where he’s acted, his doctrine of unilateral preemption has driven away our allies and cost us the support of other nations. Iraq is in disarray, with American troops still bogged down in a deadly guerrilla war with no exit in sight. In Afghanistan, the area outside Kabul is sliding back into the hands of a resurgent Taliban and emboldened warlords.

In other areas, the Administration has done nothing or been too little and too late. The Mideast Peace process disdained for 14 months by the Bush Administration is paralyzed. North Korea and Iran continue their quest for nuclear weapons – weapons which one day could land in the hands of terrorists. And as Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld has admitted, the Administration is still searching for an effective plan to drain the swamps of terrorist recruitment. The President’s budget for the National Endowment for Democracy’s efforts around the world, including the entire Islamic world, is less than three percent of what this Administration gives Halliburton – hardly a way to win the contest of ideas.

Finally, by virtually every measure, we still have a homeland security strategy that falls far short of the vulnerabilities we have and the threats we face.

George Bush has no comprehensive strategy for victory in the War on Terror – only an ad hoc strategy to keep our enemies at bay. If I am Commander-in-Chief, I would wage that war by putting in place a strategy to win it. ((IOW, the war is still A-ok!))

We cannot win the War on Terror through military power alone. If I am President, I will be prepared to use military force to protect our security, our people, and our vital interests.

But the fight requires us to use every tool at our disposal. Not only a strong military – but renewed alliances, vigorous law enforcement, reliable intelligence, and unremitting effort to shut down the flow of terrorist funds.

To do all this, and to do our best, demands that we work with other countries instead of walking alone. For today the agents of terrorism work and lurk in the shadows of 60 nations on every continent. In this entangled world, we need to build real and enduring alliances.



Allies give us more hands in the struggle, but no President would ever let them tie our hands and prevent us from doing what must be done. As President, I will not wait for a green light from abroad when our safety is at stake. But I will not push away those who can and should share the burden.

Working with other countries in the War on Terror is something we do for our sake – not theirs. We can’t wipe out terrorist cells in places like Sweden, Canada, Spain, the Philippines, or Italy just by dropping in Green Berets.

It was local law enforcement working with our intelligence services which caught Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Ramsi Bin al Shibh in Pakistan and the murderer known as Hambali in Thailand. Joining with local police forces didn’t mean serving these terrorists with legal papers; it meant throwing them behind bars. None of the progress we have made would have been possible without cooperation – and much more would be possible if we had a President who didn’t alienate long-time friends and fuel anti-American anger around the world.

We need a comprehensive approach for prevailing against terror – an approach that recognizes the many facets of this mortal challenge and relies on all the tools at our disposal to do it.

First, if I am President I will not hesitate to order direct military action when needed to capture and destroy terrorist groups and their leaders. George Bush inherited the strongest military in the world – and he has weakened it. What George Bush and his armchair hawks have never understood is that our military is about more than moving pins on a map or buying expensive new weapons systems.

America’s greatest military strength has always been the courageous, talented men and women whose love of country and devotion to service lead them to attempt and achieve the impossible everyday.

But today, far too often troops are going into harm’s way without the weapons and equipment they depend on to do their jobs safely. National Guard helicopters are flying missions in dangerous territory without the best available ground-fire protection systems. Un-armored Humvees are falling victim to road-side bombs and small-arms fire.

And families across America have had to collect funds from their neighbors to buy body armor for their loved ones in uniform because George Bush failed to provide it

The next President must ensure that our forces are structured for maximum effectiveness and provided with all that they need to succeed in their missions. We must better prepare our forces for post-conflict operations and the task of building stability by adding more engineers, military police, psychological warfare personnel, and civil affairs teams.

And to replenish our overextended military, as President, I will add 40,000 active-duty Army troops, a temporary increase likely to last the remainder of the decade.

Second, if I am President I will strengthen the capacity of intelligence and law enforcement at home and forge stronger international coalitions to provide better information and the best chance to target and capture terrorists even before they act.

But the challenge for us is not to cooperate abroad; it is to coordinate here at home. Whether it was September 11th or Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction, we have endured unprecedented intelligence failures. We must do what George Bush has refused to do – reform our intelligence system by making the next Director of the CIA a true Director of National Intelligence with real control of intelligence personnel and budgets. We must train more analysts in languages like Arabic. And we must break down the old barriers between national intelligence and local law enforcement.

In the months leading up to September 11th, two of the hijackers were arrested for drunk driving – and another was stopped for speeding and then let go, although he was already the subject of an arrest warrant in a neighboring county and was on a federal terrorist watch list. We need to simplify and streamline the multiple national terrorist watch lists and make sure the right information is available to the right people on the frontlines of preventing the next attack.

But we can’t take any of those steps effectively if we are stuck with an Administration that continues to stonewall those who are trying to get to the bottom of our September 11th intelligence failures. Two days ago, the Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert refused the request of the bipartisan 9-11 commission for just a little more time just to complete their mission. This after the Commission has had to deal with an Administration that opposed its very creation and has stonewalled its efforts.


He didn’t hesitate to pick up the phone and call Denny Hastert to ram through his Medicare drug company benefit or to replace a real Patients Bill of Rights with an HMO Bill of Goods. This President told a Republican fundraiser that it was in the “nation’s interest” that Denny Hastert remain Speaker of the House. I believe it’s in America’s interest to know the truth about 9-11. Mr. President, stop stonewalling the commission and stop hiding behind excuses. Pick up the phone, call your friend Denny Hastert and tell him to let the commission finish its job so we can make America safer.

Third, we must cut off the flow of terrorist funds. In the case of Saudi Arabia, the Bush Administration has adopted a kid-glove approach to the supply and laundering of terrorist money. If I am President, we will impose tough financial sanctions against nations or banks that engage in money laundering or fail to act against it. We will launch a "name and shame" campaign against those that are financing terror. And if they do not respond, they will be shut out of the U.S. financial system.

Fourth, because finding and defeating terrorist groups is a long-term effort, we must act immediately to prevent terrorists from acquiring nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons. I propose to appoint a high-level Presidential envoy empowered to bring other nations together to secure and stop the spread of these weapons. We must develop common standards to make sure dangerous materials and armaments are tracked, accounted for, and secured. Today, parts of Russia’s vast nuclear arsenal are easy prey for those offering cash to scientists and security forces who too often are under-employed and under-paid. If I am President, I will expand the Nunn/Lugar program to buy up and destroy the loose nuclear materials of the former Soviet Union and to ensure that all of Russia’s nuclear weapons and materials are out of the reach of terrorists and off the black market.

Next, whatever we thought of the Bush Administration’s decisions and mistakes – especially in Iraq – we now have a solemn obligation to complete the mission, in that country and in Afghanistan. Iraq is now a major magnet and center for terror. Our forces in Iraq are paying the price everyday.

And our safety at home may someday soon be endangered as Iraq becomes a training ground for the next generation of terrorists.

It is time to return to the United Nations and return America to the community of nations to share both authority and responsibility in Iraq, and take the target off the back of our troops. This also requires a genuine Iraqi security force. The Bush Administration simply signs up recruits and gives them rudimentary training. In a Kerry Administration, we will create and train an Iraqi security force equal to the task of safeguarding itself and the people it is supposed to protect.

We must offer the UN the lead role in assisting Iraq with the development of new political institutions. And we must stay in Iraq until the job is finished.

In Afghanistan, we have some NATO involvement, but the training of the Afghan Army is insufficient to disarm the warlord militias or to bring the billion dollar drug trade under control. This Administration has all but turned away from Afghanistan. Two years ago, President Bush promised a Marshall Plan to rebuild that country. His latest budget scorns that commitment.

We must – and if I am President, I will – apply the wisdom Franklin Roosevelt shared with the American people in a fireside chat in 1942, “it is useless to win battles if the cause for which we fight these battles is lost. It is useless to win a war unless it stays won.” This Administration has not met that challenge; a Kerry Administration will.

But nothing else will matter unless we win the war of ideas. In failed states from South Asia to the Middle East to Central Africa, the combined weight of harsh political repression, economic stagnation, lack of education, and rapid population growth presents the potential for explosive violence and the enlistment of entire new legions of terrorists. In Saudi Arabia and Egypt, almost sixty percent of the population is under the age of 30, unemployed and unemployable, in a breeding ground for present and future hostility. And according to a Pew Center poll, fifty percent or more of Indonesians, Jordanians, Pakistanis, and Palestinians have confidence in bin Laden to “do the right thing regarding world affairs”

We need a major initiative in public diplomacy to bridge the divide between Islam and the rest of the world. For the education of the next generation of Islamic youth, we need an international effort to compete with radical Madrassas ((a good effort to compete with radical Christian Fundamentalism and radical Zionism would be a better start- "own back yard" kind of thing! )). We have seen what happens when Palestinian youth have been fed a diet of anti-Israel propaganda. And we must support human rights groups, independent media and labor unions dedicated to building a democratic culture from the grass-roots up. Democracy won't come overnight, but America should speed that day by sustaining the forces of democracy against repressive regimes ((Chavez, you're next no matter who wins this election))and by rewarding governments which take genuine steps towards change.

We cannot be deterred by letting America be held hostage by energy from the Middle East. If I am President, we will embark on a historic effort to create alternative fuels and the vehicles of the future – to make this country energy independent of Mideast oil within ten years. So our sons and daughters will never have to fight and die for it.

Finally, if we are going to be serious about the War on Terror, we need to be much more serious about homeland security. Today, fire departments only have enough radios for half their firefighters and almost two-thirds of firehouses are short-staffed. We should not be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them down in New York City. We need to put 100,000 more firefighters on duty and we need to restore the 100,000 police on our streets which I fought for and won in 1994 but which the Bush Administration has cut in budget after budget.

We need to provide public health labs with the basic expertise they need but now lack to respond to chemical or biological attack. We need new safeguards for our chemical and nuclear facilities.

And our ports – like the Port of Los Angeles – need new technology to screen the 95 percent of containers that now enter this country without any inspection at all. And we should accelerate the action plans agreed to in US-Canada and US-Mexico “smart border” accords while implementing new security measures for cross border bridges. President Bush says we can’t afford to fund homeland security. I say we can’t afford not to.

The safety of our people, the security of our country, the memory of our brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, neighbors and heroes we lost on September 11th call on us to win this war we did not seek.

And our children’s future demands that we also do everything in our power to prevent the creation of tomorrow’s terrorists today. Maybe there’s no going back to the days before baggage checks and orange alerts. Maybe they’re with us forever. But I don’t believe they have to be. I grew up at a time of bomb shelters and air raid drills. But America had leaders of vision and courage in both parties. And today, the Cold War is memory, not reality.

I believe we can bring a real victory in the War on Terror. I believe we must, not only for ourselves but for all who look to America as “the last best hope of earth.” I believe we can meet that ideal – and that’s why I’m running for President.


http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0227.html

((The graphic is courtesy of Indymedia and not on the Kerry web-site / Bush said at West Point on 1st June 2002 that, “We must uncover terror cells in 60 or more countries.”))

------------------

“Making America Secure Again: Setting the Right Course for Foreign Policy”
An Address to the Council on Foreign Relations by John Kerry

December 03, 2003

New York, NY -

<snip>

I have specific concerns.

Saudi Arabia has long been a major supporter of Islamic extremism here and elsewhere. Saudi-funded hate speech can be found in schools, mosques, and other institutions across the world, fostering hatred of Jews, Christians, Americans, and the West. This kind of officially sanctioned bigotry breeds terrorism. Spokesmen for the Saudis now say that textbooks are being rewritten to remove "possibly offensive" language and that Islamic clerics are being told to tone down their rhetoric. But we need more than promises. We need to see the new textbooks. We need to hear what the government-financed clerics are preaching.

Saudi officials and spokesmen have said repeatedly that the Saudi government is opposed to every form of terrorism; yet the Saudi regime openly and enthusiastically supports Palestinian terrorist groups, such as Hamas. The Saudis cannot pick and choose among terrorist groups, approving some while claiming to oppose others.

<snip>

President Bush pays lip service to the idea that Mideast Peace is critical to combating terrorism. But his Administration has lurched from episodic involvement to recurrent disengagement, jeopardizing the security of Israel, encouraging Palestinian extremists, and undermining our own long term national interests.
<snip>

There are a number of uniquely qualified Americans who I would consider appointing, including: President Carter, former Secretary of State James Baker, or, as I suggested almost two years ago, President Clinton. James Baker? The Carlyle man? The guy who interrupted his Carlyle meeting to rush over and organize the bussing of those fanatical Georgian rednecks who stopped the recount for Selection 2000? You throw James Baker in there and Carlyle will need a lot more than 40,000 additional troops!

<snip>

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1203.html
====================

<snip of excellent analysis by Sanders Research Group>

In considering all this, ask yourself the following question: if you were a neo-conservative strategist, with all the huge plans for world-wide “democratisation” which that entails, who would you rather have in the White House? A red-neck Texan surrounded by a bunch of corporate war profiteers, whose very selves excite furious opposition from whole swathes of leftish public opinion in America and around the world, or a smooth multilateralist Patrician with a pleasing mix of patriotic and liberal credentials? Go figure.

http://www.sandersresearch.com/Sanders/NewsManager/ShowNewsGen.aspx?NewsID=577

About SRA: http://www.sandersresearch.com/Sanders/NewsManager/faq.aspx

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lefergus70 Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
52. Vietnam draft spawned a nationwide student rebellion
People my age can remember how, during the Vietnam War, college campuses were focal points of the biggest anti-war movement in American history. There was a draft then; bring it back, and for another war whose purpose seems self-defeating, and we'll see that massive protest again. Kerry was part of that anti-war movement, and he certainly must know that a renewed draft would blow him right out of office. And if Bush is re-elected, it would undo him too.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mandyky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
53. I think any president will have to bring back the draft
after the mess idiot cowboy leaves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC