Why do some DUers claim not to be "anti-Catholic", but only post

[flyingfish]

blatantly anti-Catholic threads?

For instance, I see no posts about the Pope calling on the US and Russia(two largest arms dealers in the world) to DRASTICALLY cut their arms exports. Mainly because the small arms trade fuels so many Third World conflicts, like in Liberia and Congo.

[wuushew]

1. Why not check the march archives when the Pope opposed war

[flyingfish]

2. This is August, not March in case you have not changed your calendar

I have not seen too many people post pro-Pope threads as of late.

Also, isn't that a freeper mentality.

"Well, the Pope agrees with us on this issue. Listen to the Pope."
OR
"Well, I do not agree with the Pope. Screw him."

Do you kind of see the hypocrisy people have with the Catholic Church?
Praise it when it is beneficial to their cause, criticize it when it is not.

[wuushew]

6. So what, the same could be same of Bill Clinton

I will praise when he talks about peace, minium wage or balancing the budget and denounce him when he supports the drug war, DMCA or 1996 Telecommunication's Act?


Sure the Pope does good stuff, but in life the goodthings usually are overshadowed by the negative.

[Superfly]

12. Are you the "accuracy police"

- This is August, not March

- This is an English site

[damnraddem]

51. So, if a post is not pro-Pope, then it's anti-Catholic?

By your reckoning, an awful lot of Catholics are anti-Catholic.

I still have no idea what you consider an anti-Catholic thread. Would it be, for example, one criticizing the Vatican's disgusting demands that politicians vote the way it wants on gay marriage, or on abortion?

[Classical_Liberal]

87. You only have 83 posts

Why not ask that question when you can form a real opinion on the matter.

[NashVegas]

89. 89 and

I think 28 of them are in this thread, alone.

[DemBones DemBones]

93. So what? Many people lurk at DU for months before they post. n/t

[Trajan]

3. As a dyed in the wool FORMER catholic ....

I must say that I DO NOT see any overt anti-catholicism on this site, any more than I see ANTI baptist or ANTI Anglican posts .....

The lack of fawning threads filled with praises and HOORAHS of the Pope does NOT indicate an ANTI catholic bias .....

[DemBones DemBones]

66. I think it's your "dyed in the wool FORMER Catholic" status that

puts the blinders on you so that you don't see anti-Catholic posts.

To answer your question (asked in a later post), I don't think anyone wants the forums to be filled with threads praising the pope. We are concerned with the anti-Catholic agenda of some who post here.

DU would NOT tolerate free speech that expressed a negative view of Judaism. Why does it tolerate the expression of negative views of Catholicism?

[Lurking Dem]

67. Au contraire

DU would NOT tolerate free speech that expressed a negative view of Judaism.

Happens all the time - usually some snide remark about "G-d's Chosen People", or the discounted Khazar theory, or misrepresentation of the Talmud.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. *very* good point

"For instance, I see no posts about the Pope calling on the US and Russia(two largest arms dealers in the world) to DRASTICALLY cut their arms exports. Mainly because the small arms trade fuels so many Third World conflicts, like in Liberia and Congo."

[flyingfish]

5. Or no posts about the numerous other statements the Pope makes

each and every week.

When I see a comment that says, "Fuck Catholics(actual comment I read on DU)" or something to that effect, that is pretty anti-Catholic to me.

[Trajan]

10. Isnt it a bit vain ....

to DEMAND this forum become a source of papal quotes ??? ...

Cmon ...

If it is a strict CATHOLIC FOCUS you desire: ... there are PLENTY of websites that are associated with the catholic church that provide PLENTY of quotes STRAIGHT from the Vatican ....

To insist that DU become such a source is ludicrous ....

I escaped catholicism after a lifetime's strict catholic indoctrination ..... and even though I dont dislike the faith anymore than any other faith, I dont promote the catholic cause either .... nor do I promote the cause of ANY church .....

I am sure the Pope can form statements that are inherently humanistic and laudable, even by atheists ..... but to DEMAND that they be repeated here, and lauded by all .... is simply asking too much ....

WHY do I see perfectionism in this thread ? ....

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

26. who said that???

DU is full every single day of anti-Catholic and anti-Christians posts. Even when a thread about the Pope's opposition to war was started, it quickly was filled with blatant anti-Christian bigotry.

No one is asking for a "strict CATHOLIC FOCUS" - maybe just a little less strictly anti-Catholic focus?

Let's not forget something like 75% of registered voters are Christians.

[charlie]

29. The poster that's got flyingfish

pissed is a Christian. Leave the rest of us out of this one.

[damnraddem]

52. I haven't seen anything like that.

Do you have a link?

[anti_shrub]

7. I would think that people don't post about the Pope

Because they might think his call to cut arms exports is overshadowed by his campaign against gays, or his shielding of pedophiles.

As I recall, his opposition to the Iraq War was met with replies like "this is the one thing I agree with the Pope about".

Lets not get all Rush Limbaugh here and start calling people Anti-Catholic just because they disagree with the Pope.

[flyingfish]

9. When some people talk about the hypocrisy of the Church

and then do not mention they praise the Pope when it benefits them and criticize him when it does not, that is hypocrisy.

Do not look at the speck in your brother's eye when you have a plank in your own.

[arcane1]

46. hypocrisy and opinion are two different things

I can agree with the pope on some things, disagree with others. Nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong in saying so


seems like DU has been under quite a few of these kinds of judgement lately, where relatively new people get pissed at a handful of members who disagree, so they try to call them out by starting a separate thread accusing most if not all of the board of the crimes of a small few.

If a poster replies in a thread and you don't like it, why not reply to the poster? This blanket condemnation of DU is getting really OLD

[ibegurpard]

8. A lot of catholics I know disagree with the Pope on a number

of issues.

:shrug:

[Warpy]

28. Catholics as a whole are a liberal bunch

...more likely to use birth control and approve of reproductive choice than those in many other faiths. I'd never consider bashing Catholics.

The church hierarchy, though, as a lot of explaining to do, and a lot of evil to answer for.

[thom1102]

11. Let's face it...

The majority (probably) of DUer's are either agnostic, atheist, or disagree with their faith's teachings on social issues. Most churches (not only catholics) stance on social issues are antithetical to democratic party core values, especially on divisive issues such as gay rights and abortion.

That doesn't give people carte blanche to attack one faith or another, but when the Pope, or some traditional Catholic group takes the public spotlight and says something stupid, Catholics here really have to get a thicker skin, and bite the bullet and expect that there will be some sort of response. It's like the Kucinich/Dean fights that go on around here. If you don't like people bashing catholics, then a) don't go into the thread, or b) post threads that show the positive things the church is doing.

[flyingfish]

16. Then don't complain when someone posts something that you do not like or

agree with.

Hypocrisy is when you do not take your own advice.

[flyingfish]

18. And I did post a "positive" statment the Pope made

But most seemed attracted to the negatives.

[damnraddem]

56. Hey, the Pope has a good stand on evolution, and science in general.

How's that?

[donco6]

13. Maybe because it's so hard to *like* anything about the . . .

Roman Catholic church.

But I'm not anti-Catholic.

:evilgrin:

[flyingfish]

14. Let's get back to my original point

If you post something blatantly anti-Catholic and then say that you are not anti-Catholic, aren't you being hypocritical?

Who would post something anti* and then claim they were not anti*?

[stoystown]

20. Is all criticism "anit-"?

Are you saying you can't post things critical to the Pope or the Church and be a good Catholic?

If you are, I disagree.

I know that the Church does not tolerate dissent well (and has never done so from a populist standpoint - - see Martin Luther etc.). But you cannot squelch dialog or criticism.

If all criticism was shut up (at every level), Vatican II never would have happened, and the Church would be trapped in the 19th century.

[damnraddem]

Who posted the 'screw Catholics' comment?

Did that poster claim to not be anti-Catholic?

I HAVE seen some comments dissing all people of faith, all Christians, and so on -- I DO think those posts to be biased. I'm not sure I've seen any of the posters claim they were not anti-theist or anti-Christian, however.

[jafap]

15. Is it anti-Catholic to be anti-Pope?

Or anti-JP II? Impeach JP II!

edit: pass the dsylexia please

[Shanty Oilish]

17. I'm Catholic, and if not for Bush...

I'd be regretting the Pope a lot more often. Not for his remarks about Iraq, but because his own house is not quite in order.

ps: that doesn't exactly answer yr question, does it? I don't feel the sting of anti-Catholic remarks here, as much as you do. Politically he's with us and that's largely acknowledged here. As far as other issues go...abortion, abuser priests, etc., I think the criticism is deserved. Occasionally I see an anti-religious thread, that's intolerant, and the posters are quickly challenged.

[flyingfish]

24. On what issue are you regretting the Pope?

The fact that Mikhail Gorbachev stated if it were not for the Pope, communism would have never collapsed?
What?

How is his own house not in order?
A lot of what people are addressing here things that happened before the Pope took his position in 1978 and without his knowledge.

I don't see the Catholic Church collapsing any time soon.

[Shanty Oilish]

68. Abortion and...

abusive priests and no women in the priesthood, no married priests either. All of which antedate JP2 but he's been in charge for decades and hasn't done anything (or enough) to change things.
Did you see the Soviet Union collapsing? Big things always look like they'll take forever to come down, but they do come down, often quite unexpectedly.

[Trajan]

19. This thread is pure bait ....

"Do you kind of see the hypocrisy people have with the Catholic Church? Praise it when it is beneficial to their cause, criticize it when it is not."

ISNT this the 'Have you beat your wife lately' fallacy ?

This thread is baiting by insisting that non catholics praise the comments by the leader of the catholics ....

The mods should lock it .....

[flyingfish]

25. What I pointed out is hypocrisy

Using points from one person or institution when it is beneficial and criticizing them when it is not is hypocrisy.

Everyone, including myself, is guilty of it.

If the Pope came out tomorrow and said that Bush sucks and needs to go, how many DUers would be praising the Pope?

[wuushew]

27. Such comments however right might trigger the second Civil War

the pleasure of having Bush gone would be overshadowed by the rivers of blood in the streets.

[Warpy]

30. Oh, please

Lambasting somebody who is usually wrong is a good thing. Praising them when they occasionally get it right is a good thing.

It's ideas we're involved with, not the personalities. Hypocrisy is agreeing with an absolutely untenable position in public (like nodding one's head during an anti birth control sermon in church) and going out and doing the opposite.

Hypocrisy was exemplified by Gingrich during Weeniegate, while he attacked Clinton for doing less than he was doing with his own staffer.

I will point out when any public figure is wrong on any issue. I will also praise the few times they manage to see the light. I would hope that is how they'd learn the difference.

[JVS]

31. Suppose I didn't say a good thing about the pope then

you would probably accuse me of being anti-catholic. So let's see, you criticize those who speak well of the pope sometimes and speak ill of him at other times as being hypocrites. You also criticize those who are always against the pope as being anti-catholic. Thus I am forced to deduce that you want to criticize all of those who don't always speak well of the pope.

[flyingfish]

32. Let me put it this way

"Fuck Catholics" -actual post I read on here is not a criticism
Saying that some bishops were wrong to cover up pedophiles is criticism.
Calling the Pope and priests child molestors is not criticism, it is inflammatory.
Placing links to blatantly anti-Catholic sites is not an insult, not a criticism

So, I correct myself and use "insults" instead of "criticisms".

[JVS]

60. No I choose to analyze the way you put it in post #2

Agreeing with people sometime and disagreeing at other times is not Hypocrisy. It's independent thinking.

[Kolesar]

33. Yes, I don't like the premise of this thread

[JustJoe]

42. LOL

Lock it because it's baiting?!?
By that standard, half the threads in GD would be locked.

[Kolesar]

47. No, not half

I told you a million times, don't exaggerate. (humor)

[JustJoe]

54. You're

baiting me!

[mike_c]

21. I dislike all christian cults equally....

Including Catholicism. Sorry about that.

[Blue_Chill]

41. Christian cults

Gotta love those that can't stop taken shots.

[wuushew]

22. Flying Fish, where is your pro-pope story in the media?

I check MSNBC.com,NPR,DU, etc. If I am not aware of a story its somewhat hard to comment on it. Isn't your beef with the media not with fellow DU'ers?

[Rich Hunt]

23. actually

...I think you're only talking about one person, because there is only one who fits that description. Then there are a few "chimers" who seem to show up in any threads about Catholics, but I think most DU-ers avoid that crap.

[JohnKleeb]

35. aye I know exactly who you mean

The others just had bad experiences and this person deliberatly taunts the Catholics here. BTW you know who hates Catholics with a venegance Bob Jones U, and what do we think of Bob Jones U, it sucks and its prejudiced, so please I say realize that all religions and demonations have their good and bad men and women.
for example
Good Catholic- John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Bad Catholic- Adolf Hitler
Good Athiest- Clarence Darrow
Bad Athiest- Benito Mussolini
There is good and bad in all faiths keep in mind, Teddy Kennedy and Rick Santorium while both Catholics, we sure as hell know who the better man is, for southern baptists, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr and Jerry Falwell, again I think its obvious.

[flyingfish]

40. Excellent points, all

But a few do jump in to bash Catholics given the chance.

[JohnKleeb]

58. thanks

We gotta understand there are good and bad people of faith in the world. I may not agree with the pope on everything but you know he may not be the best man to be in Rome but he sure as hell isnt no Pius during WWII. Catholics also are a loyal and traditional democratic consituency, we must keep that in mind. Again good and bad in all faiths, we cant judge one pedophile priest for the whole church and its parishoners and we cant judge a despot for all of the athiests and etc, btw the despot was Stalin.

[damnraddem]

59. Don't forget Jack Chick.

Go read some Chick tracts to see real anti-Catholicism.

[Rich Hunt]

74. at least Jack Chick is entertaining!

I wuv Jack Chick...for comedy value & aesthetic value.

unlike....uh...oh nevermind. :evilgrin:

meowwww...

[flyingfish]

34. Again, I stated "blatantly anti-Catholic threads"

Saying that some bishops were wrong to cover up child abuse is criticism.
Saying "Fuck Catholics" or saying the Pope and priests are child molesters is blatanly anti-Catholic.

[wuushew]

37. If you have problems with certain posts use the alert button

the moderators can remove or lock offensive material. This seems like the best approach unless you advocate outright censorship.


Why is this topic even being discussed?

[flyingfish]

39. ?????

You talk about censorship then why is a topic even being discussed?

Talk about irony.
Or do you think we should talk about it?

[wuushew]

44. Because your wasting BANDWIDTH!

I don't see very many people agreeing with your viewpoint, therefore since you seek to either remedy the problem or change people's behavior why not use the alert feature which is a more efficient method of accomplishing what YOU want.

[flyingfish]

45. Seems like you just wasted some bandwith, also

Oh.. I guess since "very many people" do not agree with my viewpoint, I should just shut up.

This forum is called General Discussion, not Nazi discussion.

[wuushew]

50. Why do you disregard my suggestions?

Here is a copy a DU posting rules, they allow you to prevent this precieved anti-catholic behavior you observe


BIGOTRY

Do not post racist, sexist, homophobic, ethnic, anti-religious, or anti-atheist bigotry. Unambiguous expressions of bigotry will be deleted, and will often result in the immediate banning of the individual responsible.

If it is not clear whether a comment is bigoted, we will generally give the benefit of the doubt and assume the least-bigoted interpretation. However, individuals who repeatedly post borderline-bigoted comments will be considered bigots and will be removed.

When discussing race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, or religion, please exercise the appropriate level of sensitivity toward others and take extra care to clearly express your point of view. This will help avoid misunderstandings and undeserved accusations of bigotry.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[flyingfish]

55. As Ben Franklin said,

"Advice given is not always well-received but advice asked for always has an open ear." Paraphrase, of course

Did you ever think to ask if I sent in a note to the mods or admin when I read anti-Catholic bigot's posts?

If you would have asked that question, I would have said "Yes".

Now, go back to your "Save the bandwith" rally.

[wuushew]

62. Why do you quote the secular saint Franklin?

"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."
--Benjamin Franklin


"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." --Benjamin Franklin

If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Roman Catholic Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England.
--Benjamin Franklin

"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity."
--Benjamin Franklin

[flyingfish]

71. I guess you like wasting bandwith

Because you just cannot stop posting.

[wuushew]

77. That assumption was based the idea that this argument could be resolved

Failing that you now force me do defend my pride and public reputation here on DU.


I am sure in the future we will disagree on many many issues, the reasons for the dissolution of the Soviet Union being one of them.

[flyingfish]

80. No, Mikhail Gorbachev stated

Communism would not have collapsed without the Pope and the Vatican.
The KGB considered the Pope and the Vatican their most dangerous enemy.
I think Gorbachev knows WAY more about the collapse of communisn than you.

Statements as stated by Gorbachev and the KGB.

And you seem not to have a problem with wasting bandwith, so please refrain from using that issue in the future.

[wuushew]

85. I believe the main factors were economic

To Laqueur, the nature of the totalitarian state, not the flawed ideology, was to blame for the persistence of the Soviet hammerlock on power. Until 1991 no totalitarian state had collapsed of its own volition without being defeated militarily. As with Volkogonov above, Laqueur found a host of recent Russian scholars ready to embrace this theory of totalitarianism in order to better understand the failure of the heavy-handed Soviet system that they so long had been compelled to endure.

For persistent clarity and insight into the multitudinous factors pointing toward Mali's "Great Collapse," no one beats Laqueur's list of winners; an economy in free fall whose slowdown began as early as the Sixties; an almost total absence of consumer goods of any consistent quantity or quality; defense spending higher than anticipated; a series of ecological disasters and disaster areas; a rise in alcoholism to 37 percent for working class males by the late 1970s; and most glaringly, the legacy of cronyism and Mafia-like satraps, particularly in the Soviet republics, either established or allowed during the Brezhnev period. As a result of the latter, anything could be obtained if one had the money, from a university position to a job as a party apparachik. And the police and judiciary were the most corrupt of all.

There was also the increasingly ubiquitous presence of abject poverty; peasants on run-down collective farms, old age pensioners, single women, low-paid occupational workers -- including teachers -- frequently reduced to a penury that proved the lie of the failed utopia.

http://www.raleightavern.org/lovell.htm

[flyingfish]

88. Ummm, I think Gorbachev knows the most about the collapse of the USSR

And he said the collapse WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE without the Pope.
He did not say the Pope was the only reason.

Jeez, do you read or just read what you want to?

And go back to the "SAVE THE BANDWITH" rally already.

[DemBones DemBones]

70. Sounds good but too often

doesn't work.

[damnraddem]

61. And I have yet to see an example, ...

although others have noted that there is a poster here who does do what you say.

I have no idea who it is, nor have I seen the threads. How about links?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

36. So today...

Du is anti-Catholic AND anti-union.

Um hmmm.

[flyingfish]

38. Read the wording

SOME post blatantly anti-Catholic threads

anti-union "sentiment"

Where was the statement "DU is anti-Catholic and anti-union"?

[JohnKleeb]

43. its a combo of both

BTW as a pro Catholic I am Catholic and pro union person, I agree with you about what happens with Catholics and all. Theres really only one blatantly Catholic person that I know of though, the others chime in I guess. Its interesting really some people dont like the Catholic church because its too conservative yet many Catholics myself included are for Kucinich and Ive seen many athiests for Dean, and yes I know that supposely Dean is more secular but you know Dean opposes gay marriage for religious reasons, and Kucinich supports it eh. Sorry thats a whole other rant.

[Blue_Chill]

48. Because they are cowards

that can't stand up and admit what they really are. They are afraid to admit that they do hate the Catholic Chruch so they pretend they are only trying to keep us informed when in reality they warp facts every chance they get to misrepresent it.

They are bigots, that have yet to be targeted by the PC crowd so they are able to get away with spreading hatred. They are no better then the KKK in practice and yet are allowed to call themselves liberals and leftists that preach tolerance all day long.

Pathetic every last one of them.

[damnraddem]

49. Why not give examples of what you're talking about.

I haven't seen any blatantly anti-Catholic threads on here.

[mumon]

53. so make one

and the Pope gets an "attaboy" for his efforts.

Now, if he could only let crack down on pedophiles, let priests marry, stop bashing gays, let women become priests, allow bishops to be democratically elected...

[flyingfish]

57. So, basically

as long as the Pope does what you want him to do, you think he's OK.

Sorry, but I doubt he reads DU. He is too busy brushing up on his Doctorate in Theology.

[damnraddem]

63. I will criticize or praise based on a person's position.

So, yes, I will acknowledge the Pope when he takes positions I consider good; lambaste the Pope when, generally, he takes positions I consider bad. The same with Dean, Kerry, or Kucinich.

But all of this is irrelevant to the claim of anti-Catholic posts. I haven't seen one. Provide a link to one.

[Rich Hunt]

64. I would, but

I hate to say this again and again, but...

I am NOT a Catholic. I left the church because I disagreed with a lot of the theology and found the church too rigid for me.

However, there were anti-Catholic posts, like the ones in the thread about a Catholic priest who drowned while saving children from drowning...some of the usual suspects showed up and criticized the heroic priest.

I put them all on ignore, so there's no point in my digging out the threads. Use the search function.

Then there are people who say that if you are a Catholic, you automatically support bigotry, since you are a "member" of a bigoted institution. Then there are the non-Catholics who misrepresent Catholic theology. Many of the threads have now been locked - do we really have to re-hash this again?

[damnraddem]

65. Flyingfish wanted to rehash.

I haven't seen what you and he have reported -- just wanted to taste the hash if we did rehash. I especially wanted to know whether it was being asserted that any criticism of the Pope, the Vatican, or RC positions were being called 'anti-Cathholic.'

And I was raised Catholic and left because I disagreed with the Pope -- after Pope Paul VI 'outlawed' birth control.

[flyingfish]

73. I guess what you cannot see you cannot believe

Voila! Check post #69, oh thee of little faith!

[Tinoire]

69. Maybe because they're not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier?

You mean like this one?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=128&topic_id=6105&mesg_id=6105

You mean the people who only have one subject of conversation on a political board and it ain't politics?

Like I said- dull bulbs. Thank God I can't think of more than 1 person in this category.

But what with all the light and brightness coming from most DUers, to hell with one dead bulb.

[immoderate]

72. the pope performs exorcisms, and is infallible, whereas...

...we are democratic.

Occasionally he agrees with something we want. Mostly he is a superstitious authoritarian.

[flyingfish]

75. I guess all of that superstitious athoritarianism got rid of communism

Maybe we should use some more of it to wipe * out.

[NashVegas]

76. Can You Separate Youself from the Church?

Metaphorically speaking.

One guy writes a 'fuck Catholics' or whatever (I didn't even bother to read it).

The vast majority of what you perceive as anti-Catholic posts appear to me to be more anti-Catholic Church or hierarchy.

Is an arrow flung at your pope or your bishop, your priests, also an arrow thrown at you?

[flyingfish]

78. If someone said F$%& DEMOCRATS

Would you perceive that as anti-Democratic, a shot at you, the Democratic Party in general, the Demos running for President?

No, you would take it as a shot at you!

Saying taking shots at the Church is not taking shots at Catholics is like saying taking shots at the Democratic party is not taking shots at Democrats individually.

[NashVegas]

81. One Post

One post out of countless others.

If someone wrote a post nailing a Democratic politician, a party chief, or a plank in the platform on a perfectly legitimate basis, no I wouldn't have much trouble with that at all.

[flyingfish]

83. One example, not just one post

When the Pope and priests are repeatedly called child molesters on DU, then that is just not one post.

[NashVegas]

86. Where is it, Exactly?

I know I saw the header earlier, can't find it now, only this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=128&topic_id=6105&mesg_id=6105

[Rich Hunt]

79. like i said

I don't like to single out one person in a thread, and I don't like to talk about someone behind their back, but I have a feeling that this thread was really started about one person, and I must say that if someone shows an obsession with the RCC, and accuses anyone who disagrees with him of "conservatism" or "pro-hierarchy", there IS a problem.

They're not MY bishops or priests, but I have seen this stubbornness. Also, whether you are RC or not, if you criticize one of these people, you are accused of being conservative RC, pro-pedophile. I must say, as a person who strives for reason and fairness that some people on the other side have just been pig-headed and have heard what they have wanted to hear. This offends me NOT because I am "biased" but because not listening to others is SO illiberal.

I have no quibble with criticism of the pope or dogma or bishops, but I don't like it when people get the theology wrong, or they criticize priests for wearing robes, or they say that the church should liquidate its artwork, or if the only time they happen to post is when they are posting something negative about Catholics...all nonsense I have seen directed against the RCC and no other denomination.

[flyingfish]

82. Read my original post again

BLATANTLY ANTI-CATHOLIC POSTS

"Fuck Catholics" is not a criticism.
One example

And I sent numerous messages to the admin about it, but I did not see it taken down after the requests

[Rich Hunt]

91. yes, I see what you mean

Did you see the thread about the priest who saved kids from drowning? That really burned me up - the insensitivity and the cowardice coming from people who were really looking for a way to disparage a heroic priest....just because they have a grudge against all Catholics, and no Catholic can be redeemed in their eyes.

I'm sorry - I'm not going to shut up about such dishonesty.

[drdigi420]

84. When did I ever claim to not be anti-Catholic?

I'm anti-religion. Period.

:)

[DemBones DemBones]

90. As a Catholic, I don't expect non-Catholics to agree with, much less

abide by, Catholic teachings, particularly the teachings on sexual morality. I do expect non-Catholics to acknowledge the right of the Catholic Church to exist and to proclaim its doctrines. That's religious freedom.

If someone wants to dispute a particular teaching, I don't object. If someone wants to characterize Catholicism as "too rigid" or "too hierarchical," no problem, it probably is "too rigid" for them.

What I do object to is the people who jump into any thread about anything Catholic to talk about pedophile priests, ask "Have they forgiven Galileo yet?" or bring up the Spanish Inquisition. They are EXACTLY like the wingnuts who shout "Monica!" at any mention of Bill Clinton. I EXPECT BETTER OF DEMOCRATS.

I also object, of course, to posts that say "Fuck Catholics" or "Fuck the pope." That's unnecessarily rude and vulgar. I EXPECT BETTER OF DEMOCRATS.

Why do some DUers tolerate slurs about Catholics when they would never tolerate such slurs about Jews or Muslims? I EXPECT BETTER OF DEMOCRATS.

[drdigi420]

92. slurs against all religions

should be tolerated.

[Rich Hunt]

94. I agree

Some people have behaved like children, and have displayed the ignorance of children.

Or maybe I'm insulting children. Whoops! I'm a child abuser!

[charlie]

95. Follow the posts in this thread

This thread began because of ff's beef with ONE guy, you know the one, the L Rev. He's the only poster consistently asserting that he's not anti-Catholic while starting strings of pedophile threads.

FF apparently can't stand to be disagreed with (look at some of the arguments he's having above), so he's progressively enlarged his complaint to charges of Catholic-bashing writ large at DU.

Now, because of an encounter with wuushew above (check out who's the more civil in that exchange), he just started this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=128&topic_id=9158&mesg_id=9158

Sorry, while complaints of intolerence for religion here are legitimate, this guy is just a hothead and a brat.

[flyingfish]

96. If you have a beef with me, send me a PM

It takes a brave person to send a PM.
Or are you not man enough to do it?

And you talk about civil?

And I had a beef with more than one person.
Don't say what my intentions were or are.

[charlie]

97. See?

[flyingfish]

98. I just sent him you a PM

A brave man can stand alone.
A coward needs a crowd.

[flyingfish]

99. Where is your reply to my PM?

I am waiting.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[charlie]

101. Performing for the crowd?

Try your box instead.

[flyingfish]

102. I'll be MAN enough to state he replied to me

But no one should assume the intentions of someone else on this board if they are not directly stated.