Wondering how others would feel in my situation

[LeftCoast]

I'm an "out" gay man living in SF (yes, I'm a walking, talking stereotype). I've been out to my parents for years, my partner and I spend Xmas each year with them and they've always been "pretty cool" with the whole homo-thing.

My parents don't really travel, so a few years ago I bought them tickets to fly here and shelled out for a B&B so they could come up (from SoCal) and visit for a few days. Realizing that SF's queer scene would be a bit much for my family I tried to steer them to the happy str8 tourist stuff and we all had a great time.

Flash forward to a few weeks ago. I'm on the phone with my Mom and she lets it slip that she and my Dad "probably won't be visiting SF again". Somewhat taken aback, I asked her why not. Apparently, my Dad saw two guys walking down the street holding hands and in the words of my Mom, "it really bothered him."

My first reaction was to laugh. I was thinking 'Good grief! If he thinks two dudes holding hands is bad, it's a good thing I didn't take them to gay-pride!' We didn't pursue this line of conversation any further.

Since then, it's not been brought up again, but I find that unlike many things seem important at first and then fade with time, the opposite is happening. The more I think about this the more it really bothers me. Lately, in fact, I've started to feel like I don't want to spend Xmas down there.

Insight and comments would be very much appreciated.

[pink_poodle]

1. Here's what I think..................

You dad actually seeing men holding hands, really made him think about you being gay. Okay, he could tolerate it before, but to actually see two living men do this, is a lot more different than seeing stuff on TV - the way most straight people get a dose of any kind of reality. I lived in Toronto for 14 years, so I saw lots of reality first hand. I think your dad saw the SF scene and it turned him off.

Either you try to "ignore" and go on with life the way you did before and he will eventually get used to it all again and things will settle down, or you need to confront him about it. Depending on the type of person he is. For your sake though, maybe you should come right out and tell your mum this is bothering you - just have a wee chat with her about this and see what exactly has changed with them about this.

At least your parents tolerate things better than others out there. I've known gay men and they were totally on their own and never saw their families at all. Not saying that you are lucky or anything like that, but at least you are out and living with it which I think is great.

[Shanty Oilish]

2. All the more reason to do Xmas with them, imo.

If life takes its normal course you won't always have your father, and when he's gone you won't have any more chances to be comfortable with each other. Do it while you can. Love overcomes prejudice.

[hlthe2b]

3. sounds like you need to have further discussion...

with Mom.... Perhaps you can flesh out (pardon the pun) what exactly was behind your Dad's discomfort while also letting your Mom know how you are interpreting this comment. Is it possible that you are making more of it than was intended? Sounds like you need to find out...

[gratuitous]

4. Well, he IS your father

So you probably shouldn't just cut him dead. I'm sure you also know any number of queer folk who would love to have a relationship with their parents that didn't involve shouting matches, bitchy recriminations and total freeze-out silences that go on for years. So there's a "count your blessings" aspect to all of this.

I would suggest getting in touch with a PFLAG chapter and talking with some of the parents involved there. Many of them, I'm sure, went through that "really bothered" stage and overcame it. For some people, it's easier to accept the theory of same sex relationships, but the practice and mechanics, even as minor a subject as hand-holding, pulls them up short.

Good luck, LeftCoast. A good relationship with your parents is hard to come by, and a good relationship is worth investing your time and effort!

[Red_Viking]

5. Be honest.

Seriously. The only way you can deal with it is to "name it," as a very wise therapist once told me. Sounds like your dad is OK with the homo-thing in theory. Seeing it in practice was a little much. Keep in mind he comes from a different generation. I'm not gay, but have many gay friends, and honestly don't care who anyone chooses to love. My dad and I have been around and around about it! He's very "live-and-let-live" and pretty open-minded for someone who grew up in the segregated South. In theory. In practice, he would rather not be confronted with something so tangible as two men holding hands. (Gasp, right?)

Anyway, talk to him. They're your parents and they love you, so give 'em a chance. And if you end up not seeing them for Christmas, well, at least you tried.

My boyfriend is from the Bay area, and he took me there in June for my birthday. Loved it! What a beautiful place. His brother and sister-in-law live in Petaluma. He took me to Mendocino on my birthday. I didn't want to come back to Texas! :)

Hang in there, brotha...

:dem:
RV

[nini]

6. accept him the way he is... he'll be gone one day.

My brother had 'disowned' my dad because he didn't feel he was supportive enough about him being gay. Actually my dad was accepting and loving, but as your dad didn't take part in gay events so to speak.

NOW 5 years after dad died, my brother realized he was being too hard on dad and lost all that time with him. It's kinda like you have to accept them the way they are and accept the fact they did not grow up in a time that is as open (though we have a long way to go) and be glad they are still loving parents. Yes, it would be nice if he wasn't uncomfortable in general, but give him time or be understanding of him too.

Do not miss any opportunity to spend time with them... it's much better than bringing flowers to a grave after it is too late.

[LeftCoast]

7. I'm sure glad I asked the question!

Seems like everyone's saying the same thing...keep talking and keep the relationship going!

Thanks for all the words of encouragement everyone!

[sweetladybug]

8. LeftCoast, try not to be offended with your parents

Perhaps it upset them to see 2 guys holding hands. It sounds like you and your partner have been treated with respect by your parents. Your parents have feelings too and if they felt unconfortable in the atmoshere where you live maybe you should not force the issue of them coming to see you. Perhaps it would be best for you to visit them. I have a brother that is gay and I love him very much. But I would not want to see him showing affection to another guy and neither would either of our parents. What goes on in his bedroom or else where is his business but what goes on in my presence or my parents presence is our choice. I don't want something forced on me. I would be very upset with my brother if he put either of our parents in a situation that they felt uncomfortable in. My parents are in their late 70's and earlier 80's and I don't think they should be put in situations which could cause them stress because of their health.
I hope I haven't offended you. I think anyone has the right to live their life however they choose to live it, but we all have to have respect for other people's feeling also. Just love your parents and don't let this come between you all.
Gayle

[LeftCoast]

13. I think my parents see it just the way you describe, Gayle

My problem with this is that if I can't touch my partner's hand, or stand with my arm around him while talking to a relative at Xmas am I really accepted? I don't think so. At the same time, it's taken me a long time to get comfortable with being gay and I have to deal with it every day so I don't expect my folks, or anyone else for that matter, to be as accepting as me.

Still, every gay person at one point or another has probably had to 'de-queer' the house before guests arrive. I feel like I'm having to 'de-queer' myself to visit with my family.

*sigh*

[kentuck]

9. You are what you are....

and your father is what he is... and both are important in your life, obviusly. Of course, you must do what you must do. If possible, keep your relationship with your father. No need to intentionally destroy your relationship with him since it seems that your visits are only occasional. Try to rise above it all and understand where he is coming from even if he doesn't understand your life. You will be happier with yourself, in my opinion.This is only my opinion.

[Purrfessor]

10. My advice, for what it's worth........

If you have a good relationship with your dad, and it sounds like you do, I think it's important that in order to maintain this relationship you should do your best to try not to let his uneasiness with the openly gay lifestyle come between you.

It does seem a bit strange that while he accepts your situation, he is bothered by the sight of complete strangers (two dudes) holding hands.

It seems to me that you can only make the situation worse by placing a barrier between the two of you, by barrier I mean refusing to spemd Xmas with your parents because of your dad's attitude toward gays. Additionally, your mom did say "probably won't be visiting SF again," so there's still an outside chance that they'll visit.

If such sights as two gay men holding hands don't bother your mom, perhaps she can help to convince your dad that it really isn't that big of a deal. Just hang in there and give it some time.

Now for a bit of humor. My wife and I lived in the Castro, on upper 18th Street about a block-and-a-half from Market Street, for six years beginning in 1990. The first time my parents came out from Florida to visit, I think it was 1994, my dad and I went for a walk one evening down near the intersection of Market and Castro.

While I went into a shop that sold postcards and various other cards, my dad decided to wait out on the sidewalk. While he was standing there taking in the sights, so to speak, a guy dressed as a woman came up to him and started a conversation; my dad realized right away that it was a guy. Anyway, after about a minute of small talk, this guy says to my dad, "Do you want some pussy?"

Dad declined the offer, although he did think it was somewhat funny to be asked such a question, particularly from a guy who thought he could pass himself off as a woman, when clearly he couldn't.

I now live in Petaluma, though from time to time I still miss the Castro.

Anyway, good luck.

[LeftCoast]

15. Lol! Great story!

I wonder if it was the very strange individual who wanders the Castro wearing a tattered wedding dress?

I lived at 17th & Diamond for several years (right around the corner from you). It is certainly an experience living there.

[ibegurpard]

24. ROFLMAO at your story!

I would've LOVED to have seen how my father would've reacted to that!

:toast:

[SoCalDem]

11. Try something different for the Holidays..

Neutral turf.. Maybe Tahoe or Reno.. That way everyone has their own space and now one feels imposed upon..

I would not make your Mom the go-between.. You may just have to give yourself permission to disagree with your Dad's position, and find other areas where you two can agree..

He is unlikely to ever change his "feelings", and talking it to death could exacerbate the whole issue..

I am not advocating sweeping it under the rug, just a different approach..

If coming to YOUR city makes him uncomfortable and YOU going back "home" makes you the kid again, just compromise..

Or maybe a Mexico cruise..

Just a thought :)

[LeftCoast]

16. That's not a bad idea!

I'll keep it in mind!

[twilight]

17. it is a great idea really

I used to live in SF and my parents lived in the East Bay. I hated going over there for Xmas and the holidays for different reasons than yours - but similar in ways also.

What *we* used to do every year is rent a place for a week up at the Stateline in either No. Shore (cheaper) or So. Shore Tahoe.

This is a great option because there are lots of places to go and lots to do and it seems everyone enjoys the Stateline, esp. during the holidays.

Cheers,

twilight

:dem:

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. it's a generational thing

the TV will change it. probably not in time for your folks. i've had many friends who have gone through this. compared to the average, you are doing fine.

[realFedUp]

14. Visit them more often

Sometimes you can't make the donkey stop where you
want him to stop.
Congratulations on your life and partnership and
love them for who they remain.

[LWolf]

18. LeftCoast,

thanks for posting this. I don't have any words of advice for you, but reading through this was good for me. I am straight, and I am not the least bit homophobic. Too many of the best people I've known are/were gay. But I stopped to think about how I'd feel about public demonstrations of affection. Hand holding, an arm around, general affection, etc.? I could care less. Making out? No thanks. But, I don't want to watch straight people making out while I'm at the park, either. It's a privacy thing, not a gender thing.

So I put myself in the parent position, and asked myself how I would feel if my son were gay. I would be grieved. I would not love him any less, support him any less, want to be with him any less, or judge him at all about it, but it would grieve me. Because it would add a social burden for him to carry. It would give him one more sort of discrimination to deal with. That's a mom speaking. I don't know what a dad's reaction might be; I'm a mom. If I'd been raised to think there was something "wrong" or "shameful" about homosexuality, it would add another dimension to my reactions, but I wasn't, so it doesn't. I just wouldn't want my son to be hurt by intolerant people.

Don't give up on your parents. Accept their limitations and be the son they love; it will help them, and our culture, evolve.

[LeftCoast]

20. LWolf! Wow!

My Mom said much the same thing one time. At one point I was really angry that I was gay. I remember being in my room at night just being furious at the universe for having made me different. I honestly now believe that being gay has been the greatest gift I could possibly have received.

I won't give up on my folks. Thanks for helping to show it from their POV.

[nofurylike]

19. i am curious how people would respond

if this was about a biracial couple: "your father was uncomfortable seeing a white man holding hands with a black womon."

i've been thinking a lot about this, trying to get perspective in that way, and wonder what others here would say about that.

i think it would be good to ask your mother, lovingly and directly, if she is saying that you would not be welcome there if you and your love hold hands there. then discuss this if she will.

i have a difficult time with conditional love. you don't seem to be giving conditions for your love, but how do you feel about your father putting conditions on his?

[LeftCoast]

21. You've spotted the part that hurts

This was what took me a while to realize. I knew something was bothering me about the comment but had to think about it for a while.

After reading all the incredible posts though, I'm sure we'll work through it. Luckily, this isn't a crisis so we have time to work it all out.

[janx]

22. LeftCoast, I don't know how old you are, and it might not matter...

but I'm 45 and have noticed that sometimes, unpleasant family comments can surface for no reason, or at least no reason that you can discern. The more you love your family, the more you are likely to take these weird comments seriously. At least that's been true in my case.

Your parents love you and you love them. Don't take some wigging out on your dad's part to be something more serious than that. He just wigged out.

Go see them at Christmas. If the problem becomes serious then, you might have something to worry about (for awhile, certainly not forever).

To edit: I'm het, but I have not been pleasing to my family always. I mean these comments in general. I think they fit that way.

[ibegurpard]

23. My ex-partner's family welcomed me in with NO reservations.

I was invited to family functions and treated just like a member of the family. I always felt a little uncomfortable because I couldn't say the same thing about mine. Both of my brothers were competely fine about it but my parents and sister(staunch Mormons) were not. My father met my ex once and my mother NEVER did. She still doesn't like to talk about the fact that I'm gay.
Do you know what, though? I wouldn't trade my family for his. He never spoke to or saw his real father (it was his stepfather that I knew).
My father was the only parent who came to a 5th grade sex-ed class that we had when I was in grade school. I was deathly embarrassed about it at the time but now I look at and think "Wow! My father was the only parent who took the time to come to school about something as mundane as that!"
My mother sent homemade goodies with me to school for the entire class on every holiday or special occasion.
My parents took in and raised the daughter of a family friend who died of cancer.
Obviously I wish they could be more accepting of me and I hope that in time they will become more so (although sometimes I doubt it...I've been out for 10 years). I just try to accept them and be empathetic to the fact that the dreams they had for me will not happen.
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm preaching to you...It's just the way that I've found to cope with it. There was never a question of my parents rejecting ME and I'm thankful that I wasn't put in the situation that others who have lost family were.

[Yupster]

25. It sounds like they're trying

Give them a break.

They're from a different generation, and this may be much harder on them than you think. They're doing their best which is all they can do.

[janx]

26. You know, you are right about that. My parents didn't

baptize me as a baby the way they did with my older brothers, so my older brothers got a "godfather"--a gay man who was dear to both of my parents and a classmate of my father's at Wash U. He was around for Christmas and Thanksgiving for years, and we all loved him very much. But--my parents didn't talk about sex in general (I admire them at this point, post-40), and in that respect, they taught us well about people, the people you love and why you love them, because of who they are. He taught me how to waltz, he spoke fluent Spanish and Portuguese, and he brought us Christmas tree ornaments from around the world. He was our uncle, Uncle Terry.

My parents are both dead now, but to my knowledge my uncle is still alive, and I very much owe him a note on some updates re my own kids, my brothers, etc.

So while people who were educated and loving in the 1950s or 60s accepted gays, sometimes they didn't want to talk about sex PERIOD. They knew (this from talking to my father) that homosexuality wasn't some kind of "kinky choice." They knew that Uncle Terry was Uncle Terry and that he had been that way from the beginning. They just didn't choose to dwell on it.

A few months before my mother died, I asked about Terry. I said, "Terry is a gay man, isn't he?" and she said (shit, she was dying and it was a hell of a time to ask the question), "Of COURSE he was gay!!" She was mad at me...because she was dying and I wanted to know about Terry.

OK, I'm babbling, but this is important. When I met the gay kid in gradeschool, because of Terry, I found nothing odd about him. I walked home from school with him. The same thing happened in high school, in college, and as I matured.

I think I was very lucky to have the parents I did.