What is middle class?

[Gringo]

Annual income for a family of four, on average, in the US?

I'm not talking about how much it takes to live a "middle-class" lifestyle.

I mean what do most families earn?

[Gringo]

1. I created this poll because there are two meanings

of the term "middle class". One referring to the typical "American Dream" lifestyle of owning a home, color TV, two kids, and enough money for a retirement nest-egg.

The other way it's used is to refer to the standard of living enjoyed by the largest number of Americans.

I bring it up because the two couldn't be further apart.

The upper-middle class delude themselves into thinking that their standard of living is middle-class, as do many of the working poor.

I believe that the reality is that the vast majority of families are at about number three, but that in order to have the standard of living described as middle-class, one would have to be at number five.

I would guess that only twenty or thirty percent of Americans are at number five or better, but as they only associate with other #5 and uppers, they think that they are the average.

[Orangepeel]

2. median income in the US (2001) was $42,873

"middle class" is a value/lifestyle categorization more than an income categorization. But, if you are going by income, your choices don't really hit the mark.

I'd say "between $30,000 and $50,000"

http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p60-218.pdf

[Gringo]

5. My numbers are no more arbitrary than anyone else's

And median income is only the midpoint between the highest and lowest income. It does NOT give an accurate picture of the amount of money MOST people earn. Median income is often used deceptively to imply that "most people make 40k/year" Also, the very poorest of us are unlikely to ever be included in those figures.

[Orangepeel]

9. median income is the middle

1/2 the households in the US make more and 1/2 the households make less

[Gringo]

11. I stand corrected, but

I don't see how median income is a much better gauge than "average income", which is even more deceptive.

I prefer the quintile approach...

[Orangepeel]

13. agree, quintiles would be more complete information

I also agree that average income is highly deceptive, because it can easily be distorted by a few huge numbers (that's why the bush administration always uses average when talking about their tax cuts).

But I don't think that median is deceptive, at least not with a continuous variable like income. It is useful because it defines where the middle is in terms of people (households) rather than dollars and we know how many households fall above and below the number.

But you are right. The more info the better.

[the_sam]

3. No Such Thing

There is no meaningful definition of middle class if "middle class" is intended to refer to a specific range of income. Prices vary from place to place, after all.

The only useful interpretation of class in modern capitalist society, I think, is the classical Marxist perspective. If you don't enough enough capital to live off, you're working class. If you own enough capital to live off, but don't employ anyone, you're middle class. If you own so much capital that you can and do employ people, you're part of the ruling class. It's imperfect, but it's the only consistent and systematic way of defining class.

[Gringo]

7. Makes perfect sense to me.

Commie. ;-)

[fshrink]

14. That'd work but we need to add

something that Marx couldn't factor in. It's the pool of consumers that feeds the capitalistic engine. Consumers, of course, of goods, images and ideology. It is therefore the damper that equilibrates a system that the working class would otherwise easily subvert.

[TheUnionDemocrat]

4. Bad question...

It all depends on where you live and how many children you have.

If we're talking about all of America then the answer is 25,000 to 100,000. Maybe a bit higher.

[wuushew]

6. I agree

The poll is valid, but the ranges are not wide enough

[Gringo]

8. It did say "family of four"

and an average for the whole US.

I'm aware that 40k is near poverty wage in San Francisco, but c'est la vie.

[IrateCitizen]

10. Excellent point

My wife-to-be and I live in Westchester County, NY. I am an engineer, she is a public school teacher. Together, we make a little bit over six figures a year.

In the area in which we live, THAT is solidly within the "middle class" definition. Housing costs are totally unreal -- the median home price in Westchester is now $571,000. We live in a co-op now, but we will never be able to afford a home in our area -- at least unless we want to be buried under an oppressive mortgage for the next 30 years.

However, if you go to Pig's Knuckle, AR, the story would be quite different. There, you could probably do fairly well on $40K per year.

So, it's all relative.

[Gringo]

12. I tend to disregard those complaints, because

living in an area like Westchester or Marin County is, in and of itself, a luxury. Pig Knuckle AK? Most of us wouldn't want to live there for a 7-figure salary.

I would take a one bedroom walkup condo in San Francisco over a roomy house in a suburb of Phoenix ANY DAY, and I wouldn't feel "poor" because of my choice.

People who gripe about housing prices in their tony neighborhoods always rub me the wrong way somehow, because they're not struggling to pay for a 2-bedroom like me, they're whining because they can't afford 4,000 sq. ft. with a pool like some schmuck on Oklahoma City.

Sorry for rambling.