Need help with Freeper wife

[mrgifted]

Yesterday, my beautiful wife, whose only fault is that she is totally Freeped, caused my mouth to gape by announcing that * was right to start the war in Iraq, because Saddam had funded most of the world's terrorism in the 1990s, and had funded Al Quaeda. She went on one of those violent Freeper fits and called me all sorts of typical crap, and said I have no clue what I am talking about since I don't read real news sites, only DU and Bart. This criticism I can handle, but she has since sic'd the ultra Freep in laws on me as well, and I am now the dinner table laughingstock b/c I believe that Bush lies about things to get a war started.

Since I am new at this debating crap, can someone give me some data from a reputable source that says without a doubt that Saddam has NOT funded AQ and/or "terra", and that Bush made this crap up to justify the war? Something from CNN etc would be best.

Thank in advance

[MidwestTransplant]

1. How about from the CIA

and most other intelligence agencies within the government and throughout the world.

[roughsatori]

2. Divorce her

Under Christian doctrine it is allowed to divorce those who have embraced evil.

[Bushfire]

5. Ask her for her facts

and let us debunk them. Divorce is a bit premature if you really can't see being happy without her, even if she bleeds GOP. You have a wealth of resources at this BB, and we'd be happy to convert another GOP to our side not to mention her in-laws.

[roughsatori]

34. It was a JOKE

I would never recommend a divorce to a stranger.

There are 2 things I could never accept in a friend or spouse: 1)They are a child molester. 2) They are a Freeper.

But I guess some are more spiritual than me, and stay with them and offer help.

[okieinpain]

81. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

.

[wryter2000]

3. Sorry, don't have a link

But Bush's own 9/11 Congressional committee said that there was no link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. It's in the report he just allowed to be issued after having it since January.

You might also point out that Bush's own lawyer (Bill Bennet's brother) is representing members of the Saudi royal family who are being sued by family members of the 9/11 victims.

I'll try to find links for you.

BTW, my dh was a conservative when I met him. He voted for Reagan once. After some time, he came around to the truth, and we agree so much now, I let him mark my sample ballot for me. In fact, if anything he's more liberal than I am. Don't give up hope.

[mrgifted]

10. WOW

WRYTER, that would be perfect if you could find it.

The reason this is so hard to argue is it is all such OLD news it is hard to find sources anymore. I thought it was common knowledge that we all knew there was no link. Getting GW to admit it himself would be spectacular around here...

Thanks, and I will make sure to give you her talking points along the way.

[wryter2000]

19. GW didn't admit it

It was part of the report issued by the congressional committee who investigated it. If anything, he tried to stifle the report by sitting on it for over six months.

[w4rma]

68. "...no connection, and that's been confirmed by some of bin Laden's..."

White House 'delayed 9-11 report'

WASHINGTON, July 25 (UPI) -- A member of the independent commission set up to investigate the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks has accused the Bush administration of deliberately delaying publication of an earlier congressional inquiry into the attacks.

Former Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga., told United Press International that the White House did not want the report made public before launching military action in Iraq. He said the administration feared publication might undermine the administration's case for war, which was based in part on the allegation that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had supported Osama bin Laden -- and the attendant possibility that Iraq might supply al-Qaida with weapons of mass destruction.

"The administration sold the connection (between Iraq and al-Qaida) to scare the pants off the American people and justify the war," said Cleland. "There's no connection, and that's been confirmed by some of bin Laden's terrorist followers ... What you've seen here is the manipulation of intelligence for political ends."

Cleland accused the administration of deliberately delaying the report's release to avoid having its case for war undercut.

"The reason this report was delayed for so long -- deliberately opposed at first, then slow-walked after it was created -- is that the administration wanted to get the war in Iraq in and over ... before (it) came out," he said.

"Had this report come out in January like it should have done, we would have known these things before the war in Iraq, which would not have suited the administration."
...
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030723-064812-9491r

[w4rma]

71. Ghost of al-Qaeda left out of story

Links between Saddam and the terrorist group were cited among reasons to prosecute a war. Jason Burke finds little to support the claims
...
A report published last week by a US congressional committee makes hard reading for them and for all those who, like Blair, appear to have sucked in their propaganda. Not for what it includes, but for what it omits. The report runs to nearly 900 pages and is as comprehensive an account of the unfurling of the plot to attack the Twin Towers as is likely to be published in the near future. But, even in the 28-page special section that is being kept secret, it does not mention Iraq. The foreign nation singled out for criticism is Saudi Arabia.
...
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1006663,00.html

[maggrwaggr]

82. Mr. Gifted, why did you post the same post about your "husband?"

Or do you have two personalities?

[okieinpain]

83. I use the mr. lay who line a lot at work. and for the die hards, the rummy

shaking hands with saddam picture always sends them running.

[tuck]

4. and you are just hearing her say this NOW???

kinda late, innnt it?

[activationproducts]

6. Freeped?

Forgive me but I am new to the board. What does freeped mean?

[bspence]

9. I feel your pain, dude!

I just asked the same thing an hour ago.

It's a person who hangs out at freerepublic.com. FReeper is the proper spelling. DU's evil twin.

[JHB]

20. From or relating to...

"freerepublic.com", a Right-wingnut site sometimes described as DU's evil twin, though I'd dispute that.

They basically have such a hate on for "liberals" that they accept every right-wing spin item on its face, while while valiantly shutting out or deflecting any bit of fact that might contradict their pet worldview.

[meisje]

67. well

the same could be said about this place judging from some of the posts I've read recently.

[JHB]

69. Here, it's "some posts"...

...There, it's practically the whole GD board.

[Loonman]

7. Buzzflash, Smirking Chimp

Arm yourself with the facts, freeper "facts" are of the "pulled-out-of-my-ass" variety.

[Quahog]

40. That's the best strategy

Of course, the facts are often hard to find, given that reports that come out of this administration have potentially embarassing of incriminating bits excised.

BTW, Loonman, what's with all of the Siouxsie stuff? Don't you know that she's MINE?

:spank:

[Loonman]

50. LOL

I think Budgie would say she's neither of ours!

[fob]

8. Print out Armed Forces sign up forms and clamly, quietly,

pass them out at the next family function. No matter what happens next just go on as if nothing happened. Then when it's time to go, give everyone a big hug and tell them to write often from Iraq. Then say you will miss them all and hope they all make it home safely.

bush* is a national disgrace

fob

[leftofthedial]

11. my best advice to you

is divorce immediately.

Whatever you do, don't procreate with her. We need those genes OUT of the gene pool and apparently the ability to reason is a recessive gene.

Arguing with a neocon is a waste of time.

[mrgifted]

15. Can't divorce her,

she is hot, looks like Tara Reid's non-trailerpark twin, and her mom looks just like Tipper (which is the source of much humor for me). And has big tatas.

[radwriter0555]

18. Ah You stay married to evil incarnate for sex? Typical man....

Figures.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doctor_J]

35. Yes

If she really looks like Tara Reid with big fun bags, have some fun with her, then try to find someone with some morals and a soul to go the long haul with. Life's too short.

[BiggJawn]

42. Then why are you bothering US with your sob story?

That's one of the most IMMATURE things i've read here in a while. "Can't divorce her because she has bigg TaTas" INDEED!

I didn't realize any man could have enough brainpower in his DICK to read Buzzflash...

Go, Go bury yourself in those "big TaTas" , have a fantasy about fucking her mom "who looks like Tipper" and don't come snivelling to us about how your in-laws laugh at you, 'cuz buddy, I'd laugh at you too if I wasn't so pissed at you.

BTW, I alerted on your ass.

[leftofthedial]

56. Oh. Well, big tatas

never mind then.


But please wear a rubber.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. Non trailer park twin??? I used to live in a trailer park....

Are you sure you two are that different????

[bitchkitty]

58. That's it?

Set your standards higher hon! There are plenty of hot liberal women!

[okieinpain]

84. uhhh, don't listen to this person, unless of course you wake up in the

middle of the night with a plastic bag.

[Doctor_J]

12. This is weird

No reputable source, and no one with even a passing contact with reality, believes that Saddam supported A-Q or OBL. Dealing with someone so brainwashed and out-of-touch with the world would be pretty tough.

I pretty much avoid family reunions for this reason. You might want to do the same. If having a grip on reality makes you a laughingstock, there is little hope.

[Trajan]

13. Have you tried spanking ? .....

Ehem ....

Spanking seems to have INCREDIBLE effects on a woman's sense of fulfillment, at least on those woman who desire spanking ....

Hey: ... Cant hurt .....

Chuckles ...

[JewelDigger]

14. Here's just ONE of many sources...it's United Press Int'l

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030723-064812-9491r

[wryter2000]

28. That's the one

Thanks, Jewel Digger!

And whoever suggested asking her for her facts and bringing them here for rebuttal is right on, too.

[radwriter0555]

16. I suggest a divorce lawyer.

It will save you a lot of heartache and aggravation in the long run.

[Terwilliger]

17. get a divorce

[Exultant Democracy]

31. Divorce is the key...

not just because of different political opinions, but because of the huge difference in morality between the right and left. It would be a crime to allow children to grow up inoculated with the RW morality.

[TahitiNut]

45. Since commitment to a mental institution is unlikely ...

... a divorce based on "irreconcilable differences" seems the only reasonable course.

[truebrit71]

22. Question for you..Has she always been a repuke?

..or did it not matter to you? What I mean is, were you previosly less politically engaged than you now are?? Anyone that has such an uninformed spouse but hangs out at DU is not doing their job dammit!!!

Convert her immediately...If not sooner...

Either that or divorce her...remember beauty is only skin-deep, Facism gets your soul....;)

TB

[mrgifted]

52. Yep

Always has been, but we got hitched during the last elected President's term, and she was much more docile then cause her group were on the attack rather than the defense. The criticism of * is getting to her I am afraid.

[DemLikr]

23. Divorce, then psychiatric counseling...for YOU

You are obviously a masochist.

With all the available liberal hot women out there, you pick an insane freeper-wife?

She'll be better off at the trailer park with the pet pit bulls.

[janx]

24. Yeah. Here's some advice: READ.

And not just the internet.

[ibegurpard]

25. Wow, sorry

Did you never discuss politics before you got married?

[Born_a_Democrat]

26. I will send you plenty of material to use

just send me an email to [e-mail] and I'll send you back a bunch of articles I've gathered and pasted onto word docs.

Mike

[molly]

27. Well, welcome!!!

my husband belongs to the "party of Lincoln" - he doesn't understand that's us now. Anyway, he avoids confronting me. I'll win!! You need to get in her face with the REAL facts - the truth. Go to the library or purchase "Blinded by the Right" - ask her about Poindexter - Iran/Contra - rent "Nixon" as a starter - ask her to watch it with you. There are all kinds of liberal movies out there that I rent when I know my husband will be around. Stick around DU - you'll learn a lot.

[BiggJawn]

29. Life's too damn short, Friend.

Even that christian "Bible" book says "Thou shalt not be Un-evenly Yoked", which I take to mean that if you're a liberal Democrat and your wife is an Ann Coulter ReTHUG, there's no hope for your marriage.

Because soon, you will not only be the "laughingstock of the dinner table" but you will become the laughingstock of the bedroom, too.

Get out now while the damage is small. Stay and become part of The Borg. I know. I came out of a 8-year self-esteem hack-job thinking I was Shit. Wife, In-laws, Step-kifds, all of them told me i was stupid. I ended up believing them.

Get out Now.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Brain transplant?

To meet the standards of Freeperville you could swap brains with a mentally deficient turnip.

Or, to make her happy, you could buy her camouflage lingerie and take a gun to bed with you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. you are asking for data from a reputable source?

you are asking for data from a reputable source? "that says without a doubt that Saddam has NOT funded AQ and/or "terra", and that Bush made this crap up to justify the war? " How about any news story on the subject from any source? They all say the same thing.

This is just a troll, right? No way is this real. You just now finally got frustrated with your wife, who is a Freeper (this never bothered you before), and you are having trouble finding a news article "that says without a doubt that Saddam has NOT funded AQ and/or "terra", and that Bush made this crap up to justify the war?"?

I am so frustrated, my wife is a Stalinist, I am having trouble find a reputable history book that says he was a ruthless dictator, but she looks so good, I can't divorce her! lol

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tameszu]

36. No, don't get a divorce, for goodness sake...

...if Carville and Matalin can do it, you should be able to pull through too!

Don't try *too* hard to convince her--just bring stuff up casually. Don't get too overheated or confrontational and don't let it ruin your life.

You could also maybe tack articles to the fridge from mainstream sources--"real" news sources like the NYT or the Washington Post. Or the BBC or CBC or other foreign sources--that is, if she doesn't have an anti-furriner bias. If you're really willing to work to make this happen, then you'll also slog through right-biased sources like Washington Times and the WSJ looking for "objective" stuff that shows how crazy *'s Admin has been. If you keep putting up the casualty reports and unemployment figures, something has to resonate.

Buy smart, slightly left leaning but not polemical books and leave them lying around. Books about history, rather than current political books (like avoid stuff like Alterman/Conason/Blumenthal for now, since while they're brilliant, will be easily dismissed as overly ideological).

And if everything else fails, try to have lots of hot make-up sex. :spank:

[mrgifted]

53. This is exactly the approach I was wanting to take

I am not here to start a fight, but I am not gonna listen to Freeping in my own house. We really are Carville and Matalin...

[SoCalDem]

37. Google is your friend

Saddam+Al Qaeda..

[papau]

38. Move away from the inlaws to a coast - enjoy the sex - smile

Life is too short to put politics ahead of good sex.

After the first 5 kids - you might consider divorce if moving has not settled things down, but wait for the kids.

[grasswire]

44. hmmm

New at debating this, but knows enough to use the word "freep"....

[LoneStarLiberal]

39. Here Is A Cardinal Rule of Debate

In cross examination debate you have two sides: Affirmative and Negative. In high school and college, cross examination debate has one universal topic per year (or per debate season). The affirmative side in such a debate offers a plan to address the problem posed in this topic. The negative side in such a debate pokes holes in the affirmative side's plan or offers a counter-plan of their own.

It all gets to be very tricky and legally oriented (one reason many good CXers will go on to law school and a life of screwing the poor and less rhetorically-gifted over), but there are some illustrative points that should help you out.

There is a cardinal rule in cross examination debate that goes thus: "The burden of proof lies with the affirmative." In other words, the affirmative side has to prove that their particular plan to address the problem posed in the universal question for that given year works. The negative side, the side being critical of that plan, does not have to offer up such evidence unless they offer up a counter plan of their own.

Think of your situation this way: Your wife and your in-laws are the affirmative side. You are the negative side. The burden of proof lies with them to make the case that war with Iraq was necessary, that repealing dividend taxes will benefit regular folk, that Patricia Owen would make a good Supreme Court Justice, etc. IT IS NOT YOUR BURDEN! Tell them if all these things are true that you want to hear the case for it. Where is THEIR evidence? (Hint: It's in the same place that compassionate conservatism and "Bush is a moderate" are located: Fantasy-Land!)

Anyone who is willing to debate an issue like war in Iraq should be well-equipped to explain their positions and back them up with specific examples that are germane to the topic. Don't tolerate the typical Republican bait-and-switch; this is a rhetorical device NOT evidence. Example: One of our central reasons for invading Iraq is that Saddam Hussein posed an imminent material danger to the United States since he had intercontinental drones, tons of nerve agents, tons of blister agents, and was on the verge of building the bomb. Essentially, Iraq had WMD. Now the Republican pundits all talk about how we stopped Iraq's WMD programs. Those are two different things. Don't be conned by that move; where are the tons of nerve agents? Where are the tons of blister agents? Where is the nuclear program on the verge of a weapon? Republicans are all authoritarian bootlickers. If you challenge them, ask them for specific proof, they will cower from you.

Hope this helps!

[StopThief]

41. The only chance you have to keep your marriage. . .

is to do what my wife and I do. We agree to disagree on politics, and to not discuss it. Life is too short to argue about these things at home.

Now, if I can just get her to oversleep on election day, I'll be all set. LOL

[jagguy]

54. and if that won't work and you still need her, two words

"yes dear"

You won't change her mond, she won't change your mind. There is no fun in debate if both sides share the same view so remove the fun and it will go away.

Its nice because you don't have to engage yourself mentally and its effective in defusing the antaganist.

[Gringo]

43. If you can sustain a marriage with a freeper wife

You are in a tiny minority, like Matalin and Carville. I don't know how they do it. I see RW ideology as a VERY negative reflection on one's character. (I also think extreme ultra-left is problematic)

I couldn't deal with it. I suppose you need to be commended for making it work.

[Atlant]

74. Carville and Maitlin are on the same side.

Carville and Maitlin are on the same side.

They both simply "do it for money"
THAT is the side they're on.
The side of the whores.

Atlant

[Aristus]

46. Don't know what to tell you, mrgifted.

My wife's a Republican, too. Raised in a wealthy family. They're all like that. Fortunately, she's not a zombie. She thinks * is an idiot and she opposed the war in Iraq. She's basically a one-issue voter: abortion.

I adore my wife, and we try to keep politics out of the marriage. It gets tough, sometimes, but we're happy.

[maynard]

47. proof

I can get people to shut up when I send them articles from newspapers around the world. The US is the only one defending Bush and that is getting slim. The newspapers from England are the biggest help. We had the same evidence, yet Blair is going to fall on his sword while Bush has the "deer in the headlights look" when asked a question that requires him to try and give an intellegent answer. I get daily e-mails from "Bush Headline News" and "Democrats.com". It gives most of the articles from around the world. It is so easy to forward them to Bush lovers. Australia is doing better than England. They always talk about how they went in and got out without any casualties.

People cannot argue about what the rest of the world is saying about us.

[Kamika]

48. well she does have some small points

Saddam has given money to suicide bombers families that bombed innocent ppl in israel, etc but ill hardly call that most of the worlds terrorism.


Now my experience of debating with republicans is just dont do it.. if shes pretty and nice just dont discuss politics with her because discussing politics with a republican is about as giving as pounding a brick wall with your fist.


But if she is one of those one in a million republicans you can actually debate with (which she doesnt sound like) you can also bring up stuff like saddam is a socialist and al quaida would never work with a socialist etc etc but most republicans are so stupid they believe saddam was some sort of ayatollah for iraq


My advice

dont discuss politics, make 4 kids and live happily ever after

[Trajan]

49. In a more serious vein ....

Look: .... MOST DU threads are supported by REAL news media sources, which can be found by clicking the links provided ....

Other sources like Buzzflash, Bush Watch and MediaWhoresOnline provide commentary AND links to those other media sites; ...

Being better at 'argument' is a tall order .... short of a full blown debating class, there are a few things one could do to improve debating skills ...

You say that your wife calls you 'all sorts of typical crap', .... THIS is a warning sign .... personal insult in argument is intentionally used to deflect a proper analysis of the issues by drawing attention to the supposed defects of the person, in this case, you ..... These are known as abusive ad hominems, and are so common that they seem 'ok' ..... they arent: .. they reveal the defective arguments by your wife and in laws, who feel they must misdirect attention from the issues to obscure the paucity of facts .... DEMAND a respectful tone in argument, right or wrong ....

Mean spirited Ad hominems are not allowed in civil dispute ... argument over ....

Back to debating skils: I would first study the principles of logic, fallacies and rhetoric ... I find that fallacious commentary is the EASIEST to discredit, since the fallacies are themselves well defined and relatively easy to pinpoint, such as the insulting ad hominem ....

For the study of fallacies: try Stephan's Guide : ... http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/welcome.htm

Also: .. the Atheism Web provides an extensive explanatory list : ... http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html .... go down the page for the Fallacies list .... This list is extensive

For a larger list : .. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=logic+fallacies+rhetoric+debate&btnG=Google+Search

You know ? ... I find the GREATEST aid in debate against Righties is:

1) STUDY HISTORY .....
2) Study debate tactics, logic and fallacies, as stated ...
3) Stay abreast of CURRENT news
4) DEMAND PROOF for everything ..... Accept NOTHING at face value: ... you dont have to ...

Most right wing assertions are nothing but bluster and hot air ....

They say that Iraq is the PRIMARY supporter of Al Qaeda and world terorism ? .... GREAT: ... Show me the PROOF of this: ... UNTIL you prove it: .... it is ONLY a baseless assertion ...

They say that Aluminum tubes and old barrels are PROOF of Iraqi WMD ? ..... PROVE IT !...... talk is cheap ......

Most righties think they can get away saying anything, and then brow beat everyone to force their view ..... fuck that: .. PROVE it Mo Fo .....

If they DONT provide irrefutable evidence that their assertions are truth, then there is no reason to presume they are factual assertions ..... dont give an inch without cause ....

[tom_paine]

51. Divorce.

I feel for you, pal.

[MiltonLeBerle]

55. Divorce is such an ugly thing-

Why not take her to Eastern Europe and sell her to white-slavers instead?

[hlthe2b]

60. I don't mean to offend, but beauty is more than skin-deep....

and I can't help but wonder how you can see beauty in someone whose mind is shut to anything but rw propaganda....

Again, just wondering and not meaning to offend.... :shrug:

[w4rma]

61. sources (+ one from the FBI that lists the nationalities of the hijackers)

This link between Islamist zealot and secular fascist just doesn't add up
...
Moreover, an al-Qaida-Saddam alliance defies common sense. Osama bin Laden is an Islamist zealot who despises secular fascists such as Saddam. I heard from Bin Laden himself that he is no fan of Saddam. When I met with the Saudi exile in Afghanistan five years ago he volunteered that he thought the Iraqi dictator was a "bad Muslim". For Bin Laden, that's as bad as it gets.
...
This leader is identified as Abu Musab Zarqawi, who, curiously, is so important that he does not appear on the FBI's list of the 22 most wanted terrorists. Indeed, key US investigators tell me that Mr Zarqawi is not a significant player in al-Qaida. In fairness, European intelligence officials do believe that Mr Zarqawi may have played an important role in al-Qaida operations in Europe.
If al-Qaida's connection with Iraq is far from proven, its links with Saudi Arabia are real. This is not to suggest that the Saudi government, which is also a target of al-Qaida, has actively supported the group. However, Saudi citizens have provided financial and logistical support to al-Qaida and the Saudi government has been unwilling or unable to stop them.

Despite the fact that most of the September 11 hijackers were Saudi, the government is barely cooperating with the US investigation into the attacks. The printable words US investigators use to describe the Saudi attitude towards their inquiries are "obstructionist", "useless" and "despicable".
...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,885139,00.html

DUBAI - A taped message believed to be from fugitive militant Osama bin Laden on Tuesday warned Arab nations against supporting a war against Iraq as threatened by the United States -- but branded Saddam Hussein an infidel.
...
But the statement did not express support for Saddam. It said Muslims should support the Iraqi people rather than the country's government.

Concern that the United States has not made a valid case for war against Iraq has already divided the NATO Western alliance, with France, Germany and Belgium refusing to back preparations to assist fellow-member Turkey in the event of war.

A NATO official in Brussels said after two days of deadlock that efforts to break the impasse in the alliance would continue through the night, with a meeting of its North Atlantic Council set for 3:45 a.m. EST on Wednesday.

While urging Muslims to support the Iraqi people and repel any attack on their country, the tape said Saddam's secular "socialist" government had lost credibility.

"Socialists are infidels wherever they are," the statement said. But it added: "It does not hurt that in current circumstances, the interests of Muslims coincide with the interests of the socialists in the war against crusaders."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0211-11.htm

FBI website: The 19 suspected hijackers (Note 8 of them are listed as "Possible Saudi national" and Iraq or Iraqi is not found anywhere on the page)
http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm

[greekspeak]

62. Take heart

Not all of us are good debaters. I personally get too emotionally charged when trying to have a political debate, and debate poorly. I am getting better at it though; my father, with whom I debate politics on occassion, seems to prey on me less and less. I still think my liberal roadmap for life is a the right choice.

[WilliamPitt]

63. Wow

I have to say that I am pretty appalled at all the people counseling divorce in this thread. Man. We're screwed. If the best we can do is cut off people who don't know the score, we're doomed...and we deserve to be doomed if that's the deal.

P.S. Coming from divorced parents, I'd suggest some of you don't understand the painful aspects of the course you are so jokingly and cavalierly advocating.

[Tammuz]

64. heres the proof

http://newyorker.com/printable/?talk/030505ta_talk_mayer

of a link between Osama and the blood thirsty dictator

[TahitiNut]

65. Yes, Trading With The Enemy

... is a Bush Family tradition. :eyes: Hey! It's business, not personal! :puke:

[hlthe2b]

66. can't be sure but think those comments are all "tongue-in-cheek..."

point taken, though.

So (all,) how do we "effectively deprogram" the brainwashed?

[WilliamPitt]

70. Information and love n/t

[Ladyhawk]

90. Subject must not be blank

Sometimes information and love aren't enough. But suggesting divorce as a first option is pretty sickening. I mean, divorce should be a last resort.

[tom_paine]

73. My parents are divorced, Will

And I've always said that, from more than a few perspectives, we of Imperial Amerika richly deserve the future that is likely coming.

I suppose I made my "cavalier comment" without giving consideration to the children of the marriage, if there are any.

Also, one might add that there are "people who don't know the score" and there are Freeper-Brownshirts.

There is a distinct difference between the two, mostly in vitriol and programmability.

I could not live with a Freeper. I CERTAINLY could not marry one.

Hell, when the shit goes down, she might turn me in to the OHS for thoughtcrime. She might organize book-burnings in the neighborhood. In short, like most Freepers, she will do what she is told, when she is told, without thought, without remorse, without requiring a rationale that even makes sense.

And if hard times hit (I mean REAL hard times) this nation, you will be quite astonished at what the Brownshirts are asked to do (and what they will do, which is identical to what the Busheviks have asked of them...spy on their neighors, assist in roundups, vote six times, whatever...they will do it because they are fighting "evil").

As the Clinton Presidency masked the true nature and power of the Confederate Broederbund (or the VRWC or whatever you wish to call it) until it was too late and the Bloodless Coup of 2000 completed, so the relative economic good times (even now, as I am comparing to the Depression) masks to what level the success of the Bushevik strategy to heat up the hatred in this nation (non-racial on the surface, of it, of course) to boiling point.

With myself as example, for YEARS I watched Rush and the VRWC mimic Nazi propaganda strategies, tell lies lies lies, say we weren't really Americans, say we didn't work or pay our bills, we were lazy Stalinists and all the other shit we don't have to recite because we've heard it so goddamned many times!

And STILL I resisted returning the favor. STILL I resisted hating them, or thinking them subhuman or not Real Americans.

No more, those subhuman, UnAmerican pieces of shit have convinced me. Finally, after more than a decade, an Attempted Coup and a Successful One...they convinced me.

Thus I advocate divorce.

Just a microcosm of Civil War 2 that I am absolutely convinced is coming within the next century or the Orwellian Imperial Police State (as the Soviets) which is the only thing powerful enough to keep those forces at bay (as the Soviets did).

I might add that that future is not certain, and that we should NEVER GIVE UP trying to stop it from happening within the battrered, bruised, and malfunctioning System that marked the Old American Republic.

[TacticalPeek]

72. Give her the truth and she'll think it's hell.

Well, maybe approach her with a little less spittle (unless mutually consenting, of course).

I'd start with a most serious misunderstanding in your post: Saddam and Bin Laden. If I were convinced that Saddam were connected in any way to 9/11, I'd be on aWol's side in Iraq. I'd still be very pissed at his idiot's approach (going in light, skimpy transition plan, troop abuse, etc.). I want destruction of anyone involved in 9/11, including supporters. Destruction, not 'disruption' as Rumdum always says in fake militarese.

So use the apologist's card she probably plays sometimes, but against her. "Everything's different after 9/11. Have you forgotten 9/11?". The US really IS threatened, and seriously. That makes countering and defeating the threat very important, so we must do what we can to make sure of the real facts about the threat. She probably accepts the fact that Bin Laden was the primary culprit, at least, so it would help to learn about radical, violent, Islamic terrorists, right?

A good place to start might be Peter Bergen's book, _Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden_. Here she might be surprised to learn that Bin Laden volunteered to fight against Iraq in the first Gulf War! She will probably have missed the very rare reference to this fact by the talking heads. Just take her to a bookstore and read the Iraq pages from the index, if she lacks time to actually read up. If she gets tired or bored learning the truth, show her a picture of the burning WTC.

It will help her keep faith with the victims of 9/11 to understand who killed them and why, and what must be done to avenge them and prevent a recurrence. If you can convince her of some of the facts, she may begin to find the bushco deceptions disturbing. That's hallowed ground their pissing on.

You can then go on to why invading Iraq probably helps Bin Laden. Does she want to help Bin Laden? Google around for such judgements by qualified experts, like retired Marine General Anthony Zinni saying about Iraq something like "Wrong war, wrong time". The Senate report recently released to the 9/11 commission would help your case, as well as the CIA's National Intelligence Estimate.

As it says in front of CIA headquarters: And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

[mitchum]

75. Bury her in the backyard

[janx]

77. Bury her in the front yard.

.

[Yupster]

76. Agree not to talk politics

Debating politics with your wife sounds like a lose-lose proposition.

[devarsi]

78. Is This SERIOUS?

C'mon...

Your playing with the DUers today, right?

Yanking our chains, pulling our left leaning legs?

Please tell me yes, you surely do jest.

[janx]

79. That was my reaction also. Yet when I posted a satirical response,

here,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=128&topic_id=11799&mesg_id=11799


the thread was locked.

No doubt some poster freaked out and someone locked the thread without examining the context.

[maggrwaggr]

80. Has anyone noticed this EXACT post, only about a "handsome husband"?

very strange. Am I the only one who noticed this?

I wouldn't trust this post

[devarsi]

85. Read JANX's post #79

We live in a sick world man, a SICK world... :evilgrin:

[janx]

87. Thanks, devarsi.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[devarsi]

88. Reprimanded-WTF? What a giant, steamy sack of rancid, feted, monkey shit!

Uhm...Sorry, you see, sometimes I have a little problem expressing my feelings....

[janx]

89. Yeah. She said it wasn't "appropriate".

.

[juajen]

91. Yeah, I noticed

Suspicious post.

[cap]

92. hate to say it...

but if she is true freeper, she must know her place in the world... and that is following her man's wishes. Hold up the example of Laura -- notice how she always walks behind George and never contradicts him.

A man's place is to lead; and a woman's to follow. Don't the freepers have some good literature on this?

[Merlin]

93. Well, Mr. Carville, you just should have seen this coming.

:evilgrin: