I have received calls from over 15 family and friends today on Iraq

[NNN0LHI]

They were all for invading Iraq last year. Some are Dem's, some are Rethugs. They have all had their fill of this occupation of Iraq stuff. Most of them are old enough to remember the escalation in Vietnam. Some served in Vietnam. Their combined consensus was that the Iraq occupation needs to end immediately. I didn't say much because they all knew how I felt about this last year. So I just pretty much listened. Most acted heartbroken that we have lost so many lives for nothing. Some came out and openly admitted that we have lost the war in Iraq. Some of them cried. They all sounded very bitter. It has been an interesting day to say the least.

Don

[Doctor_J]

1. hopefully they will take their outrage

or sadness or bitterness to the poll in November, and get rid of the neocons who INSISTED ON THIS INVASION.

[David Dunham]

3. I think the US public will now turn against Bush, as Iraq falls apart.

[aneerkoinos]

17. Why?

Did Kerry vote against the war? Has Kerry promised to end the war? Nope.

On the contrary, he has promised to send more troops... feeling drafty there?

[never cry wolf]

26. You are wrong

He has NOT promised to send more troops. He wants to increase the size of the military temporarily by 40,000 but not to send them over there. It's to relieve the troops and reserves who have been unfairly there for extended periods.

He has pledged to get the UN involved which will lead us to be able to bring our troops home. Do some homework before your spew!!

John Kerry believes that we must obtain a new Security Council resolution to give the United Nations authority in the rebuilding of Iraq and the development of its new Constitution and government. He would:
Transfer Responsibility to the UN for Governance. Kerry will go to the UN with a proposal to transfer responsibility to the UN for governance and the transfer of sovereignty to Iraq. The UN would succeed the Coalition Provisional Authority and the UN Special Representative of the Secretary General would become the overall international leader in Iraq. The UN would work with the Iraqis on the substance and process of the Iraqi government and the electoral process to give it legitimacy and to organize the writing of the constitution. Kerry cautioned that this cannot happen overnight and that the CPA will have a key role in ensuring a smooth turnover.
Build an International Coalition. Kerry will reach out to the European nations to build a coalition in support of operations in Iraq. He will eliminate Bush’s discriminatory contracting procedures and offer a genuine partnership of responsibility in return for a genuine partnership of burden sharing – troops and money.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/index.html

[aneerkoinos]

44. I read that

So Kerry wants to bribe euros to help occupation and rule Iraq together with US.

Does he take us for bribable fools? Who knows, he may be right though I hope not :)

And why should UN enter Iraq to give legal leaf to US occupation troops that stay there? The opportunity window for that closed months ago, and finally yesterday.

If there was a single mention from Kerry of withdrawing US troops from Iraq at some state... but there aint...

Bush want's UN resolutions and all the same niceties as Kerry? What's the difference?

[bagnana]

53. So

after we bombed and killed them and took over, we leave them to civil war and/or fundamentalist oppression. I don't want anyone else to die or get hurt fighting this war, but jesus, we started this and made an incredible mess of the country, so what are we going to do to make sure that the place is stabilized? I don't have an aswer to this. Frankly it seems like a hopeless situation.

[kera]

55. colonization has never been The way to

stabilize a place, on the contrary, in one country at least it took 135 years for the occupier to eventuelly come to grips with the notion that the best way to stabilize is the way out . I think you should not worry about leaving them to civil war and/or fundamentalist oppression. They have lived there and managed their business for more than 7000 years without you caring for them -
besides don't you think occupation is ipso facto oppression to begin with

[hippiegranny]

81. ok we get it

you're voting for nader.

[aneerkoinos]

82. Not voting nader

We subjects of the empire who are not citizens of US have no say on who's the next planetarch...

[IndianaGreen]

52. Problem is that Kerry did not bother to ask the Iraqi people

and they want us OUT of their country TODAY!

[calimary]

70. If we have NEW LEADERSHIP in January, there's actually hope

that things might improve. My opinion, anyway. Why?

1) Envision this: Kerry goes to the UN. Simply announces - "Friends, America is now under NEW MANAGEMENT. Things have changed. Let's talk!" Much of the world that already was HIGHLY predisposed against us because of our current leadership (and probably also rejoiced in the election results) will be more willing to talk, now that it's not the arrogant, ignorant, petty bush scum anymore.

2) A different hand on the steering wheel means the guy doing the erratic driving is now NOT DRIVING ANYMORE. The shitty people who thought all this up and pressed it and drove it, with all their shitty tactics, all leave with bush. Kerry brings his own people in. THEY share HIS agenda, not the damaging bush agenda. THEY have different priorities. The Sovietologists and PNACers don't have a place at the table anymore. Plus, the leader now is a guy who's actually seen combat up close, and knows what a dirty business it is - and why one should never just jump into it for fun and profit.

Imagine it just in the form of a simple White House dinner. The guy who liked the cholesteral special is gone. The new guy likes smarter, healthier cuisine. So we get to eat differently. The kitchen gets the signal to cook different stuff. Accordingly, the chefs in that kitchen understand they need different ingredients to cook that different stuff. Therefore, they have to shop for different things. New demand for different things means the grocers and bakers and other suppliers have to take notice and respond to that change in demand. And so it goes. A METAPHOR, here. But one to be encouraged, I think...

[revcarol]

78. HE'S STILL PLANNING ON BRIBING THEM.

Says that we cannot expect support without giving them contracts for "reconstruction." Just that he will be bribing bigger powers than Poland wee islands. Probably be a LOT more expensive to the taxpayers than bribing small powers.Maybe not more expensive than Brown &
Root, Bechtel, Halliburton et al.

HE WON'T TURN OVER THE OCCUPATION POWER TO THE U.N. So all those new troops will STILL be regarded as TOOLS of the Americans(WHICH THEY WOULD BE) and be subject to the same sort of attacks on our soldiers and on the new Iraqi policemen.

And this is the best candidate for President and our only "CHOICE?"

[Malva Zebrina]

71. Kerry voted for the war

there is no way out of it-he has that albatross around his neck and has surrendered an important debate point to Bush--neither can now discuss the illegality and immorality of this invasion. That is a diservice to the American people.

We deserve a debate on this and information on this from our leaders. Instead we get obfuscation--talks of tax cuts, talks of taxes, talks of a myriad of other issues but avoidance of the most important thing to have been foisted upon us by a president--the real and the most important issue for a democratic country is:

The illegal invasion of Iraq on the lies of a president, his cabinet and others who are support people to this Bush regime. We will not have the satisfaction of putting Bush's feet to the fire because, Kerry's political position is untenable.

That is why we are hearing nothing about it from anyone except for those of us on the 'fringe" and through the books being written by the likes of O'Neil and Clarke and more.

-the argument that welllllll--- uh, we are there now, and we cannot leave or things will be worse, does not ring true. It only reinforces the idea that Bush was right to invade illegally, because now, we have opened up Iraq to oil companies, and other corporations and we have granted them exclusive rights to those lucrative contracts. That is written into the constitution now. So even if the UN does intervene, the damage has been done and any astute politician knows that--I assume Kerry knows that and is proud to see American corporations have established that line in the sand.

I will vote for him, but not happy and did not vote for him in the caucus. He is running his campaign like a limp dishrag and I wish he would please get some people with some energy to butt back Bush's accusations and take the wheel away from Bush. Bush is in the driver's seat and being allowed to whack the people over the head with his lies--and they will stick as he has enough money to have the lies repeated over and over and over for the next seven months. We know how that works for the simple minded sheep

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. How many other Democrats "voted for the war"?

[Malva Zebrina]

80. logical fallacy--Argumentum ad populum

it is irrelevant what any others did, even though they may a majority-the point is that Kerry DID vote for the war. That eliminates any real debate re the war in Iraq.

And we the people are deprived of this now because of that.

And we now have the occupation being approved by Kerry--of course, a minor adjustment-bring in the UN--well, uh--the goal has been already reached. Everything the Iraqi's possessed is now ours--and we got it by murdereing ten thousand innocent people.

And Kerry will hide behind the fact, that he also wanted what we could steal from Iraq. So he was willing to go along with the lies of Bush, and now step back and let Bush take the blame. Well Bush will and needs to take the blame of course, but there is not an honest man who voted for this war. and that includes women such as Hillary.

and we have--and now we will have brutal and barbaric war in the country for a long time. Lives will be cut short for nothing but now, those Iraqi that are resisting do not think it for nothing.

We have paid killers as a private army under Bush and his coprorate buddies--and that army is under the control of the Corporations--in that case, the corporations are actully running things there, it would seem. and that is not new, is it?

[NNN0LHI]

4. Many of them are just as pissed off at the Dem's about this as I am n/t

[Ladyhawk]

33. And I might add LIED US INTO THIS INVASION.

Geez, even when I was a nominal Republican, I figured out this invasion wasn't a good thing. That's why I have some trouble with Democratic politicians like Kerry. If I had it figured out, why didn't he? He's a politician. He's supposed to keep up with that shit.

Yes, I will vote for Kerry. I will donate to his campaign. But I'm also aware he's a career politician and has (and will) follow the way of the wind when it suits him.

[IndianaGreen]

54. When it comes to Iraq, there is plenty of blame to go around

Let's not forget the Clinton Administration's own dirty linen on Iraq.

Let's not forget about Poppy Bush telling the Shias to revolt, then turning his back on them as Saddam slaughtered them.

Let's not forget about those that stood alongside Dubya in the Rose Garden.

President, House Leadership Agree on Iraq Resolution



President George W. Bush along with bipartisan leaders from the House and Senate announced the Joint Resolution to authorize the use of the United States Armed Forces against Iraq. "The statement of support from the Congress will show to friend and enemy alike the resolve of the United States," President Bush said during the announcement in the Rose Garden, Wednesday, October 2, 2002. White House photo by Paul Morse.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-7.html

[David Dunham]

2. I have had similar calls. It's a very bad day for us and will get worse.

[aquart]

5. It was generous of you not to say, "I told you so."

They should be bitter. They followed Bush down a garden path and it was the road to hell.

[NNN0LHI]

9. I don't think I have ever used the phrase "I told you so"? Even here at DU

There is nothing to gain by saying it.

Don

[Ladyhawk]

34. Good of you to take the high road.

I don't know if I could be so high-minded. I only figured out Bush was a total asshole after 9-11 when he so easily shifted attention from Afghanistan toward Iraq. I told my I-net friends who so wisely voted for Gore they could tell me, "I told you so." I'd fucking take it. I deserved it.

The longer Bush lies to people, the more pissed off they will be when (if?) they figure it out. Hell, when I figured it out, I was absolutely furious. I supported the war in Afghanistan because I felt we had to shut down Al-Qaeda. But when Jr. shifted focus to Iraq...fishy. Oh so fishy.

Once I started digging, it all stank to high heaven. I got so pissed I switched parties. I've even started calling myself a LIBERAL. I'M A LIBERAL. WHAT DO YOU WANT TO FUCKING DO ABOUT IT???? AT LEAST I'M NOT A FUCKING HYPOCRITE. I ADMIT WHEN I'M WRONG.

I felt BETRAYED by the Republican Party, RAPED by the Republican Party. I was so angry, I even went through an anti-America phase. It pissed off a lot of people, but even now I feel like it was a necessary phase.

I do wish I could dump a little of the anger, though.

[proud patriot]

6. Thanks for sharing Don

I've had similar email recently .

[Bread and Circus]

7. I'm curious, why did they call you? What prompted the outpouring?

[NNN0LHI]

12. These are friends and family who I discuss Iraq with regularly

I was hesitant about calling them after todays events. It has been a sad day. But instead they called me. I did more listening than talking. I think it was better that way.

Don

[Bread and Circus]

29. That's incredible.

[tedoll78]

8. Just got off the phone with my Mom in Louisiana..

her perspective last year? The smiles on the conquereds' faces alone made it worthwhile.

Now? The Iraquis are ungrateful, we should've never went, and we should level the place. Damn that Bush!

Not perfect, but it's definitely better, I think..

[tridim]

10. I'm still waiting for my conservative parents to admit they were wrong

Nothing yet. :( I've given up trying to talk to them about Bush, they simply don't listen. I just have to hope some tidbits of actual news reach them through the Faux filter.

[Ladyhawk]

35. I think you and I will both be waiting a long, long time.

I don't recall my mother or brother ever admitting they were at fault...for anything.

[Qanisqineq]

11. My husband doesn't have a TV yet

since getting back (not until I move out there). I told him about the 6 (that was the total at the time) today and he is getting more and more pissed. He thinks the whole place is going to turn to shit come June 30 (more so than it is now).

[pinto]

13. We are "losing" Iraq. The mercenaries' mutilated bodies say more

than any talking heads or blogger could assume to convey. America sees this. As does the world.

It is both poignant, sad and infuriating for me. The loss of life, Iraqi, American, Brit, among other coalition members. The resentment, no, hatred, of the US fueled by our occupation. The almost constant redefinition of the war's purpose by our administration. The loss of any kind of "currency" in the court of world opinion.

I think people have had enough. Bravado is not foreign policy, it is simply bravado. Operation Iron Will, or whatever, turns out to be, well, Operation Iron Will. Foreign policy is a dance you don't do alone.

And, I agree also with the President of Egypt. We have created a thousand bin Ladens.

[Mari333]

14. would you ask them to call their senators and congress and

demand that the troops be brought home?
I know people will be outraged now, so please, ask them to act on it.
You can understand my urgency.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Solly Mack]

15. My husband was telling me about how angry his fellow troops are

with Chucklenuts. They got to watch Rice's 60 Minutes interview and he said they were all chomping at the bit over her replies. My husband said he just laughed.

Since 2000, my husband has been hearing a lot of "you were right about Bush" from his battle buddies. He says " but never as much as now."

Contrary to myth, the military isn't with Shrub as a whole. There's a lot of anger there-anger that can be turned into a vote for Kerry.

The post I am on has been hit hard by soldier deaths. The families are tired and feel betrayed.

[bobthedrummer]

16. We've all been betrayed, all of US. Betrayed by lie upon lie.

The road to peace is guarded by veterans.

[Jane Austin]

20. Where is your husband stationed?

Thanks.

[Solly Mack]

48. He's on his way home from Iraq at this very minute

We are stationed in middle America. Almost quite literally....

[Jane Austin]

56. Hallelujah!

Are you at Ft Riley?

[Solly Mack]

58. Yes n/t

[Jane Austin]

62. I heard a report on NPR the other day

about the homecomings.

It was the same day - - or the day after - - the 5 soldiers from Ft Riley were killed west of Bagdad.

What an emotional rollercoaster everyone there must be on.

I hope your reunion is wonderful

[TankLV]

32. Thank you. That's exactly what my parther's nephews and nieces have been

saying.

The regular soldiers are NOT by any means thinking very highly of bunkerboy and his gang of criminals. That is why he has to appear before a hand picked crowd of repuke syncophants wherever he goes.

They are all ordered to clap and cheer, etc.

Simply disgusting.

[LiberalFighter]

46. Will the repugs make sure that all the military votes are counted?

or make it difficult?

[Solly Mack]

47. Odd you should mention that-just today a flier went out from ACS &Soldier

Support urging military families to vote by absentee ballot. A harder than usual push for military families to vote is happening this year.

[RainDog]

18. Also hearing people talking openly about LIHOP

And it's strange, to say the least, to hear people I meet in passing, at work, who openly believe that they knew something was going to happen, and the events around the 9-11 Commission hearings appear to be one big attempt to cover their asses...the stalling, the smearing, the lying that is so obvious, the attempt to keep information from the Clinton administration....

They know about Sibel Edmonds.

These people also do not know ANYTHING about DU, or buzzflash, or any political blogs, or The Memory Hole, or Unansweredquestions.org...

I know they don't know about these things because I've given them lists of sites when I tell them about their existence.

Hope to see some of them here, in fact.

I do hear some grumbling from people, too, about all the books about Bush which are out right now, but not many.

Those people, however, do not have anything factual to say to counter the information which is out there.

But overwhelmingly, the talk is about how horrible Bush is, how terribly he has messed up this country, how it will take a long time to fix all the things he has screwed up.

People are disgusted.

[Missy Vixen]

42. My husband, the optimist

>And it's strange, to say the least, to hear people I meet in passing, at work, who openly believe that they knew something was going to happen,<

My husband is typically Mr. Sunshine. Up to this point, he thought LIHOP was too tinfoil to even talk about between ourselves. I have forwarded article after article after article about what was known, when it was known, bla bla bla.

We were talking about an upcoming business trip; he looked at me this morning and said (I still can't believe it,) "Rice's testimony is Thursday. I won't be going anywhere after this Tuesday till it's over. I'm afraid something's going to happen. They'll have to wipe it off the front page or distract from what she'll say."

:wow:

Julie

[leesa]

19. Thanks for that! It is wonderful to hear the sound of sanity.

[KoKo]

21. Thanks for sharing that. A sad thing indeed. How so many were led into

this from "hyped, doctored, and false intelligence info." We got "suckered" again. Not us, here on DU...but those average Americans who truly "believed" that government "won't lie" if it's a Bush but were willing to believe that it was "all about Clinton."

Don, not saying your friends were suckered by Clinton Trashers. But, I think there's a "new realization dawning" all over US that "something just stinks to high heaven" over what Bush has done. :-(

[DulceDecorum]

22. What Bush has done

is to create a situation where we have the military of the world beginning to exercise dominion on the civilians of the world.
For money.

He has basically transformed the entire planet into one big showdown at the OK Coral.

[Ilsa]

23. Be supportive of them.

They need to be supported in the fact that they've finally opened their eyes. You're right: nothing would be gained with the "I told you so's." Being supportive may help them convert others blinded by shrub's religiosity.

[Mari333]

24. I will never speak to my family members who voted for Bush again

we have been thru too much hell. I will only speak to my mother, as she hates Bush now with a passion.
The rest of them I will never see again. I will also never have anything to do with anyone who voted for him for the rest of my life. I will make it my lifes creed that when I meet someone, in a store, anywhere, and I ask them if they supported Bush, and they say yes, I will turn from them and walk away.
I have been through enough, and have to go thru more. If I forgive people for it, I will someday, but I will never have anything to do with anyone in the US who supported the war, or Bush.

[Ilsa]

25. Not all situations will warrant

such understanding as I suggested. I wouldn't be able to do even as much as you considering all the shit you've had to put up with from family members who kept egging your son on to go with his unit to Iraq. Your stake is too high. I don't think I'd want you to be understanding of them. It would be too darn easy for them, especially considering how they minimize the problem to begin with.

I don't know about Don's. But apparently those people felt comfortable enough to tell him how wrong they were. If it isn't any skin off his back, he might actually get more converts from it.

Hope you have nothing but good news tonight Mari. I haven't seen where you've posted having heard from M. Has he emailed you yet?

[Mari333]

28. He emailed this morning, hes alive but it was strange

because it was hurried. Like he didnt have time to email. Like it was too busy there.
Im tired of seeing my husband cry. I have to believe Michael will come home, and when I called Sen Kennedys office the other day, I was insane with anger and told them if anything happens to Michael they can say goodbye to me, and my husband, and we will leave the country, as we will consider that as a crime against our family, and that America is no longer my country, and has turned its back on us.
I think of the immigrants in my family who came here, were in the war of 1812, the farmers and blacksmiths I have found, my gr gr grandfather's civil war records I have, my dads medals from WW2 and his distinguished service in the Air Corps, all of it will be thrown in the garbage, because America , if Michael is killed, will have turned its back on us.
Not DU, they are all I have. But the rest of America, who let this happen.

[Ilsa]

30. Thanks for letting us know.

More and more are seeing the light. I just don't understand why it doesn't help. My fear is that it will take something really explosively horrible (like Iraqis setting off a mini-nuke) to get them to see that it's over.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

72. Where would the Iraqis get a mini-nuke?...

If they had anything at all in regards to a WMD, they would have used it as soon as we came ashore.

[Ilsa]

79. I can't help but wonder if someone could acquire

something later. Maybe a materials from former soviet union (they found cesium 137 lying by the side of the road a few years ago).

I dunno. Using my imagination. I doubt there was any way an Iraqi could have obtained anything before. But now that we've destabilized Iraq, I think anything can happen.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

37. I sure empathize with your outrage at the ignorance about these criminals.

And I've raged about the seemingly willful ignorance and denial to my close circle who have had to calm me down as I rant.

So I merely offer what I remind myself when I'm clenching my fists and weeping for the dreadful consequences of so many people not knowing or caring about all this corruption and suffering:

All of us are lied to about our government's virtue (or lack of it) from the day we are born. To quote a much abused wise man whose words are often twisted beyond recognition, "forgive them for they know not what they do." Almost all Bush* supporters think they are doing the right thing in difficult times even though they're supporting murderers.

These people who think Bush* and company are Christian Soldiers fighting evil have been misled for their entire lives in a carefully orchestrated propaganda campaign to keep them drinking from the toilet bowl of deception as if they were lapdogs enjoying the clean water of righteousness.

Perhaps because Americans have been raised to believe that they:
1) live in a democracy.
2) compete in free markets.
3) share equal opportunity for all.
4) see their government spreading democracy and protecting the innocent around the world.
5) inherited the status of Best in Show Among Humans in 1776, 1945, 1991 and 2003 by winning the Revolutionary War, WWII, and both Iraq Wars I and II.

These are all lies taught to American children in school and then reinforced every day in movies and on TV for the rest of their lives. There is a well defined historical narrative that describes America as the strongest and most virtuous moral force in the world ever. So surely the President of these United States must embody all that is good about our country.

I call this Superman-Jesus-in-a-Cowboy-Hat Syndrome. Ronald Reagan fit this movie-role-as-national-identity perfectly for many Americans who didn't realize that he was a senile figurehead for a cabal of murderers who successfully portrayed the poor as lazy thieves and secretly armed terrorists against foreign governments in the name of democracy and freedom.

Here is how Americans have been led down the path to a Master Race group-think that accepts as both inevitable and just that domestic policy should be eugenics and foreign policy, imperialism:

Ever since the US lost the Vietnam War, the social atmosphere here has been very similar to post-WWI Germany. The hyper-nationalist German people were told in the summer of 1918 that they were winning World War I. But in the fall, they were suddenly informed that they had lost. They were stunned and angry as the victorious Allies raped them economically and their orderly society imploded into chaos. They looked around to find who among them had betrayed them and robbed them of their much-deserved victory over their inferiors. They demonized, assaulted, and killed Jews, labor unionists, socialists, Gypsys, and homosexuals.

The same scapegoating happened in the US after Nixon was disgraced and the Vietnam War was revealed to be a quagmire of atrocities which had also ruined the economy. The Republicans have cleverly exploited this petulant atmosphere of entitlement denied to bring us to where we are today, mired in a culture war against liberals, feminists, blacks, homosexuals, and dangerous Middle Eastern foreigners, pretty much the same targets as the Nazis.
Ever wonder why 'liberal' became a swear word? Now you know. It is the Republican power structure’s synonym for ‘Jew.’

In fact, there is a name for this late 20th century fascist movement brought into the early 21st century: Dominionism.
It is an alliance between Christian fundamentalists, Cold Warrior Fascists, and the Military Industrial Oil Complex, just like the rise of the German Nazis who, by remarkable coincidence, were also financed and supplied in their day by many US corporations, including George W. Bush's financier grandfather, Prescott Bush.

It all rather makes sense, doesn't it? Military and financial powers work hand in hand to reinforce and protect each other by keeping people starving and fighting each other over worthless things like flags and uniforms. Meanwhile, the powerful swell up like ticks on the blood of the people they fool into doing the fighting and reward them with not much more than parades, plaques, and brass bands.

Some Americans see through this and have evolved past nationalism and racism but lately it seems that a majority have not. And there is an alliance of media corporateers and fascist politicians who are determined to prevent Americans from finding out how this scam works. If you have figured out anything about life in America, consider sharing it with your fellow Americans so we can all evolve a little faster.

[Stephanie]

51. "Best in Show Among Humans in 1776, 1945, 1991 and 2003 "

great post - thanks!

[Karenina]

63. You GO, John!!!

:toast:

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

77. I think this is partly why the conservatives are all in an uproar

over the Fallujah killings. It was horrible, but I kept thinking, why are they not also outraged at all the other deaths? Like if somebody gets blown up, they don't blink an eye, but if the bodies are desecrated, they suddenly care? I think it's because they are more concerned with the image of the country than the deaths.

They are wrapped up in fantasies and nationalism and are not in touch with harsh reality. Hopefully there are more and more Americans who are now seeing that the media is a bunch of propaganda.

[Ladyhawk]

38. You have a right to be angry.

And I apologize to you for voting for Bush. I did so reluctantly and finally wised up before the current war in Iraq. Now, I feel much like you do. I figured it out. Why can't they? Why are they so blind? How can they not see?

You have so much more to be angry about than I do. I wonder...is there a healthy way to defuse some of this anger? I know you're out there, fighting the good fight. But--and I'm speaking about myself here, too--being angry all the time can't be healthy.

There is a place for anger. Anger at this traitorous administration is necessary, even. But shat can we do so we're not angry all the time?

[Mari333]

49. Ladyhawke, my mom voted for him too, I love her anyway

I know a lot of people voted for him, and wont again. Its not them I am angry at, its the ones who continue to support him and support this war.
(((hugs)))
Im just angry, and tired. Tomorrow might be another round of Shia / Shi ite Jihad. I will have to get thru tomorrow. and the next day. and the next day. and wonder, every one of those days, if the kid stayed alive.
Ive been putting my anger into the press, and letter to the Nation, and writing to every newspaper I can, and calling every senator and congressperson I can, daily, and putting it into interviews and now Im hoping to put it into a website with Susan Galleymore, who is trying to get US moms and Iraqi moms together to find some peace.
Which, is looking, increasingly slim.
www.motherspeak.org
anyway (((hugs)))) truly.

[Ladyhawk]

60. ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))

It will be a happy day when your son comes home.

It's no wonder you're angry. It must feel terrible facing every day without knowing what is happening to your son.

I hope you do get that webpage up. The nation needs to hear from people like you.

[Stephanie]

50. It serves our cause better to welcome those who turn against Bush

I hear you, Mari, but I hope you will you reserve your punishment for those who continue to support Bush. But welcome the prodigal ones. We need them on our side. Some people are a little slow - and some people have been DUPED by a bunch of slick con artists.

[mhr]

61. I Am WIth You Mari333 And Your Sacarafice And Pain Is Much Worse

I truly hope your son survives this mess.

Will keep him in my thoughts.

[rfkrocks]

27. the general lack of interest in other nations that led us here

the way we went to war was really unbelievable-the country slept walked through the greatest moral and strategic decision a country can make-that to me was as scary as the war-the people are waking from the sugar coated dream of Bushco-it is amazing that the country spent so much time on Clinton's private life yet war decision came and went like picking what flavored ice cream you want-again these rethugs have to realize that unholy hell has been roused up in Iraq-the invasion created the very problem Bushco said it would resolve-in military terms it is FUBAR-but I hope when we get out there (today preferably) we don't go through this again but I am not sanguine

[Beam Me Up]

31. I'm very touched by this...I almost feel like crying.

Your friends and family did what everyone OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO DO. That is, TRUST their democratically elected leaders to do what is in their best interest.

Instead, what we have in power in this country are a cabal of SELECTED war profiteers and criminals who cheated and lied and blackmailed their way into office and have continued to cheat, lie and blackmail their agendas into domestic and international policy.

It is sad and it makes me VERY VERY ANGRY that the corporate media has aided and abetted this situation--a situation which I personally regard as treasonous. All of them should have their licences suspended for not accurately reporting what is really going on.

[Ladyhawk]

39. I'm with you on this.

Actually, it was the new media's blatant complicity that made me wake up. But not everyone is as suspicious as I am. I suffer from PTSD. PTSD makes you instinctively not trust people. I'm hyper-aware of my surroundings and I watch for patterns that could lead to trouble. Also, I'm smarter than the average Joe. Still, I didn't figure it out until after the war in Afghanistan. Once I did, I projected onto others: why can't they see it? Why can't they see it? It's fucking obvious!!!

Maybe others just need time to admit to themselves that the man they voted for is a complete bastard.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

41. Yup. The press have been criminally negligent. Let's condemn them.

They should be held accountable for not reporting on the life and death matters until there was a huge body count.

[bywho4who]

45. That is correct

I have felt this way for three years I tell everyone this who ever I meet most think I'm a traitor. God forbid that I exercise my first amendment rights or anything like that, especially in democracy like ours LOL




:smoke: :hippie:

[calimary]

74. PLEASE COMPLAIN! PLEASE LET THEM KNOW!

(FROM DUer bigtree – 3/2004) Use the responses to strike back at the attacks, here and elsewhere.

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(CBS) 60 Minutes:

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PHONE: [phone]

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***********ALSO NOTE: www.takebackthemedia.com – for the most comprehensive, extensive list of media contacts. ****************************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
301 7th Street, SW
Room 5125
Washington, DC 20407

Washington Office*
Tel: [phone]
Fax It is vital to get these criminals under oath.
: [phone]

email: [e-mail]
AL FELZENBERG, DEPUTY FOR COMMUNICATIONS National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

Office: 202-401-1725 Cell: 202-236-4878 Fax: [phone]"

[e-mail]

And don't forget your reps in Congress:

www.senate.gov

http://www.house.gov/writerep/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And finally , PLEASE NOTE MY SIG LINE – TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kimber Scott]

36. This time last year I was sitting in a diner across the street

from the church I was to be married in. My mother and sister sat in the booth opposite me. We had gone downtown to look at the church and plan my wedding. We hadn't been eating long before we were in a very heated discussion about Bush and Iraq. My mother kept saying the "bastards" deserved whatever they got for what they did to us on 9/11. "Iraq didn't do it!" I said. My sister said, "Well, we're not the president and I think HE knows more about what to do than we do!" I was getting sick. It was hard to swallow. My son and daughter-in-law were in the Air Force. I couldn't believe they might be sent to fight in a ficticious war, along with the thousands of other military men and women. Finally, we changed the subject. Neither of us winning the "argument." I didn't want to take it any further, considering I was planning my wedding and I was determined Bush wasn't going to mess that up.

A year later, I'm married. My son has been to Afghanistan and my daughter-in-law is on her way to Iraq. My mom and my sister hate Bush for what he's done. My brother, who was also on Bush's side, told me yesterday, he was wrong. My husband, who claims to be a moderate, seemed to be leaning a little to the right there for a while, but is now solidly anti-Bush. (Even though, he's still a registered Republican.) My dad and stepmother always thought the war was wrong. My son, the one in the Air Force won't say what he feels, but his wife, the one on the way to Iraq, said she used to like Bush, but now can't stand him. I asked her what the mood was like around her in the military towards Bush. "I don't know for sure," she said. "Is it half and half?" I asked her. "Exactly," she said. "Half and half." That was last week. I wonder what it is today?

[Mari333]

40. ((((((((hugs)))))))))

PM me if you need some hugs.
also check out http://www.mfso.org
Nancy is a good woman at military families speak out.
You are not alone.

[Ladyhawk]

43. This is a travesty. :(

A short while after I had figured out that the war against Iraq was illegal, contrived, unnecessary, unjust (etc.), I discovered one of my fellow voice students had two sons in the military. One was in Afghanistan and the other in Iraq. She was very pro-Bush back then. I don't know how she feels now.

The teacher asked how we felt about the war in Iraq and it was about half for and half against. This surprised me a little because our town is mostly freeperville. Of course, anyone taking college courses may be predisposed toward a more liberal viewpoint. Maybe.

I commented, "Bush doesn't care about those soldiers."

One of those who had raised her hand in support of the war said, "Don't say that. My son is going." I just broke down and cried. She had more of a right to cry than I did, but I cried for her and her son. A part of me felt then that she was going to find out just how much Shrub cared about her son.

I don't know how she feels now. I hope her son is at home and away from that quagmire in the Middle East. I also hope they've learned some things about "our fearless leader" so this doesn't happen again.

[NuttyFluffers]

57. but will they remember...?

when nixon scammed the country and shady maneuvering placed ford as president there were conservative moderates and republicans were upset and voted ford out, putting in carter. and then they forgot and put in reagan.

when bush 1 screwed the country over, long time republicans switched and voted him out for clinton. then they forgot and voted for a republican house.

when clinton was impeached long time republican supporters once again switched. and then they forgot and in bush admin. voted for a full republican majority in the congress.

and now bush pulls more shady and tyrannical stuff. they might vote him out (even though he's not the whole evil). ... but will they forget?

if they really want to change america you should ask your friends to promise to not only kick out bush, but to keep a jaundiced eye on conservatives (because they can wear any label), because they have been constantly betrayed. are they abused spouses? do they need to return to their vicitmizer? why do they not see that it is these very same people that brought them such misery? all you need to do is ask them to remember. remember!

[Festivito]

65. Nice little insight summary.

It goes back to Hoover also, and probably beyond. I'm not a history buff.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

59. Don, I don't understand... they called you because

you were the only one opposed to the war in your family? And they were expressing "I guess you were right and I was wrong?"

I agree with your approach of listening more than speaking and no "I told you so." You are a smart man.

[NNN0LHI]

67. I was the only one against invading Iraq in my family that I know of

My brother used every trick in the book to avoid the Vietnam war, yet even he was all for it too. I mentioned that little factoid to him last year before the invasion too. He didn't take it too well when I called him on his hypocrisy either.

Don

[historian]

64. Idont feel sorry for those people

When we "are kicking butt" everyone is so gung ho. As soon as things go wrong and american lives lost we begin to weep and reconsider things. Sorry - no sympathy here - wallow in your own ignorance and dont be so stupid next time

[Fleshdancer]

66. I know it's bad when my politically ignorant friends are mad

the people out there who don't like/care about politics are pissed about the fact that there were no weapons of mass destruction.

How does anyone watch the news at night, learn about the violent attacks against our troops, know OBL is STILL free, and NOT get pissed off about the war in Iraq? It doesn't take a high IQ or a heavy interest in politics to know that this is f*cked up.

[calimary]

68. PLEASE URGE THEM TO GET VOCAL!!!!

(FROM DUer bigtree – 3/2004) Use the responses to strike back at the attacks, here and elsewhere.

“MEET THE PRESS”: [e-mail]

MSNBC-Phone: [phone]

Opinions: mailto:[e-mail]

News: mailto:[e-mail]

Letters to the Editor: mailto:[e-mail]

MSNBC on the Internet
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
________________________________________________________________

CNN- (404) 827 – 1500

CNN TV: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/cnntv /

CNN.com: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/dotcom /
_________________________________________________________________

MORE:
<[e-mail] > Newsweek
<[e-mail] > Keith Olbermann
<mailto:[e-mail] > Washington Post
<[e-mail] > MSNBC Main
<[e-mail] > Chris Matthews

<
[e-mail]

Readers' Representative Office: http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-readersrep.story

Los Angeles Times
202 W. 1st St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
[phone]

The Times Orange County
1375 Sunflower Avenue
Costa Mesa, CA 92626-1697
[phone]

Los Angeles Times
Valley Edition
20000 Prairie Street
Chatsworth, CA 91311
[phone]
Los Angeles Times
Ventura County Edition
93 S. Chestnut Street
Ventura, CA 93001
[phone]
_________________________________________________________________

New York Times:

PAUL KRUGMAN! [e-mail]

To Write The Publisher or President: http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/infoservdirectory.html#o

Letters to the Editor: http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/infoservdirectory.html#a

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
E-mail to [e-mail] .

OP-ED/EDITORIAL
For information on Op-Ed submissions, call [phone] or send article to [e-mail]" target="_blank">[e-mail] . To write to the editorial page editor, send to [e-mail] .

NEWS DEPARTMENT
To send comments and suggestions (about news coverage only) or to report errors that call for correction, e-mail [e-mail] or leave a message at 1-888-NYT-NEWS.
The Editors
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

The Newsroom
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]

PUBLIC EDITOR
To reach Daniel Okrent, who represents the readers, e-mail [e-mail] or call [phone].

TO WRITE THE PUBLISHER OR PRESIDENT

Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Chairman & Publisher:
[e-mail] .

Janet L. Robinson, President & General Manager:
[e-mail] .
_________________________________________________________________

USA Today:

Letters to the Editor: http://www.usatoday.com/marketing/feedback/feedback-online.aspx?type=1...

USA TODAY / USATODAY.com
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McLean, VA 22108-0605
_________________________________________________________________

Washington Post:

How can I contact Washington Post writers?: http://washingtonpost.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/washingtonpost.cfg/php/endu... *&p_li=

How do I submit a letter to the editor?: http://washingtonpost.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/washingtonpost.cfg/php/endu... *&p_li=

How do I submit an Op-Ed piece?
http://washingtonpost.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/washingtonpost.cfg/php/endu... *&p_li=

How do I contact the Ombudsman?: http://washingtonpost.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/washingtonpost.cfg/php/endu... *&p_li=

The Washington Post
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Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]
__________________________________________________________________

More:

National Newspapers: http://newslink.org/--news.html

Television by state: http://newslink.org/stattele.html

Radio by State: http://newslink.org/statradi.html

Networks-

Radio: http://newslink.org/netr.html

Television: http://newslink.org/nett.html

(CBS) 60 Minutes:

ADDRESS:
60 Minutes
524 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

PHONE: [phone]

TRANSCRIPTS: 1-800-777-TEXT

VIDEOTAPES: 1-800-848-3256

CBS “60 Minutes” email info:

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml - go to the bottom of the page and click on "feedback" and you're in.

***********ALSO NOTE: www.takebackthemedia.com – for the most comprehensive, extensive list of media contacts. ****************************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
301 7th Street, SW
Room 5125
Washington, DC 20407

Washington Office*
Tel: [phone]
Fax It is vital to get these criminals under oath.
: [phone]

email: [e-mail]
AL FELZENBERG, DEPUTY FOR COMMUNICATIONS National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States

Office: 202-401-1725 Cell: 202-236-4878 Fax: [phone]"

[e-mail]

And don't forget your reps in Congress:

www.senate.gov

http://www.house.gov/writerep/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And finally , PLEASE NOTE MY SIG LINE – TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!

[underpants]

69. This morning "Looks like a full blown rebellion to me, you were right"

My wife said that I told her "A lot of people were saying that but they didn't listen".

She has been against the war too (and anything Bush for that matter) but all the pre-war arguments are sadly coming to fruition. Sad.

[worldgonekrazy]

75. Please don't take this the wrong way

But your family and friends that supported the war must bear some responsibility in this. I hope they understand that. As a democracy (at least technically, for the moment) each citizen has the duty to coerce the state to act in a manner they deem appropriate. By supporting this bogus war, these people allowed the Bush Administration political cover to pull off the invasion. Had they joined the hundreds of thousands of us that marched in cities all over the U.S., this might have been prevented entirely. I know they won't want to hear this, but you should really point this out to them for future reference.

[derby378]

76. If they're not part of the solution...

...they're part of the problem. If they're angry with Bush, they have to do more than simply bitch about him. Otherwise, I'm not interested in their whining.