Atrios asks Kerry to delink his blog. A powerful statement.

[madfloridian]

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_04_04_atrios_archive.html#108110402749163310

SNIP..."So, here are the changes. First, I'm going to pull all my "special fundraising relationships." By that I mean dedicated donation pages or links which track donations from this site. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying to help candidates raise money, or make suggestions about where your money might be well-spent, but I will stop "taking credit" in any official way. Second, I'm going to stop taking any new ads from individual candidates. I'll still take ads from organizations, as they're probably "diffuse" enough to avoid this kind of controversy. Third, I'm going to request the Kerry campaign take down my link. I don't want to be a part of the next "Kerry controversy of the week."..."

[charlie]

1. Uh oh

This is getting out of hand.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. more

Anyway, I may change my mind about all of this at some future date. But, we'll be playing this game once per week until November unless people wise up. I'd hope that eventually our team will realize that once they cave into the Right's fake outrage-of-the-week, they'll just keep coming back, but until they do....

[madfloridian]

3. Powerful statement.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

4. Statement from Blogging of the President blog.

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/000493.html#493

[Prodemsouth]

5. Can't say I blame him.

Kerry needs to cut this stuff out.. and he has lurched far enough to the right enough already. And this is coming from one of the more "moderate" posters here at DU- me.

[rumguy]

6. this is awesome - we can't let these brownshirt fuckers win

[Robbien]

7. Yay for Atrios.

Am I Pissed at Kerry? You bet!

[rumguy]

8. this is the crux of the issue, IMO - a double standard

from Atrios' statement:

"Dick Cheney goes on the Rush Limbaugh show, all politicians regularly chat with Don Imus and Mike Barnicle, and no one's demanding that they distance themselves from every single utterance they make or, for the most part, demanding they stop appearing with them. Brit Hume and others on the right regularly trivialize the deaths of soldiers in Iraq by (incorrectly) comparing their deaths with domestic crime rates, traffic accidents, etc..."

[KittyWampus]

9. My Viewpoint Is GOP'er SHOULD Be Forced To

distance themselves via public demand.

And Democrats should freaking bring it up.

[DulceDecorum]

10. I bow to Atrios.

Kerry needs to remember that we are looking for a CHANGE from Dubya,
NOT more of the same stuff.

[demgrrrll]

11. He's right about this. If we are going to win we are going to have to

stand and fight, if they see we can be cowed by a stiff
breeze they will never ever let up. Atta boy Atrios.
Kos apologized, that should be enough. Is Kos up or
is his site still a blank white page?

[Bolo Boffin]

13. It's back up - just switching servers n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

12. From TalkLeft: Right Wing Ploy To Debase The Left

We will make our position very clear: We wholeheartedly support Markos. He made a comment most people find objectionable and then retracted it and explained why he made it. To us, it should be the end of the story. Any attempts to inflate it or even to keep it alive has little to do with Markos, and everything to do with right-wing conservatives trying to make political hay out of it. This has become a right-wing ploy to debase the left. Don't let it happen. Don't let them win. This is no longer just about Markos or Daily Kos, but about the right wing's attempt to use its muscle to destroy one of the most potent, prominent liberal voices out here--and if they succeed, to then silence all of us.

Go, Atrios.

[LTR]

14. Delinking Kos was a stupid move

It shows he is letting the GOP call the shots.

Kos' statement was a bit irresponsible, but I thought his apology was spot-on:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/2/175739/8203

There's been much ado about my indifference to the Mercenary deaths in Falluja a couple days ago. I wrote in some diary comments somewhere that "I felt nothing" and "screw them".
My language was harsh, and, in reality, not true. Fact is, I did feel something. That's why I was so angry.

I was angry that five soldiers -- the real heroes in my mind -- were killed the same day and got far lower billing in the newscasts. I was angry that 51 American soldiers paid the ultimate price for Bush's folly in Iraq in March alone. I was angry that these mercenaries make more in a day than our brave men and women in uniform make in an entire month. I was angry that the US is funding private armies, paying them $30,000 per soldier, per month, while the Bush administration tries to cut our soldiers' hazard pay. I was angry that these mercenaries would leave their wives and children behind to enter a war zone on their own violition.

(snip)

So not only was I wrong to say I felt nothing over their deaths, I was lying. I felt way too much. Nobody deserves to die. But in the greater scheme of things, there are a lot of greater tragedies going on in Iraq (51 last month, plus countless civilians and Iraqi police). That those tragedies are essentially ignored these days is, ultimately, the greatest tragedy of all.

Excellent point!

[rumguy]

16. great pick of Kerry giving Bush the old crotch kick

[Logansquare]

19. I'm afraid we will have to supply spine during this election

The Kerry people, and perhaps the candidate himself, are not kicking ass enough for my taste. Atrios has made the correct decision--make the candidate work for you, not the other way around. Bless the Xtian right, for they have taught us that you can form any shapeless piece of electoral clay into thine own image. Let Mr. Kerry know that he ain't all that, and he better be the candidate we expect him to be, or no green stuff.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

47. kicking ass doesn't win elections

this was a dumb decision, though they can obviously do whatever they want. I am of the opinion that dems need all the links and every type of information propagation that is humanly available to defeat the * money machine.

I don't expect him to believe everything I believe, but I do believe he will make a good president.

[DemLikr]

15. Atrios is right on, as was Kos. And the Kerry campaign has already

shown its lack of balls.

I've never read the Daily Kos before. You can bet I will be reading it every day from now on.

Mercenaries ARE war profiteers who totally choose to participate in the killing...HOW is that a controversial position?

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. I don't think it's a powerful statement, but it does make me curious

.
.
.

In his post (Atrius) he states:" The Kerry campaign is now operating on the standard that they are responsible for the comments made by any blogger they link to, . ."
_______________________________________________________________________

Well, that just doesn't make sense to me -

There is NO WAY that one can be responsible for what another blogger says. and I'd like to see any statement from Kerry, or anywhere on Kerry's site that says that - (I looked)

So Kerry would either have given all these bloggers his blessing, or review every blogger's post?

nahhh

something is fishy here -

Just look at all the blogs Kerry links to, there's no way he could be "responsible" for what they say .

Political Blogs

* Altercation
* Angry Bear
* Big, Left, Outside
* Blog for America
* Blogging of the President
* Bush2004
* BushWatch
* BuzzFlash
* Calpundit
* Campaign Confidential--The Forward's E. J. Kessler
* The Carpetbagger Report
* Change for America
* The Common Man's Politics
* CounterSpin Central
* Chris Nolan: Politics from Left to Right
* Digbys Blog
* The Daily Howler
* Democratic Underground
* Donkey Rising
* Eschaton
* Greater Democracy
* Jack O'Toole
* Jim Moore
* Kicking Ass
* From the Roots--Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee
* Hispanic Voters
* Lawrence Lessig
* The Left Coaster
* Liberal Oasis
* Loose Democracy
* Mathew Gross
* Nathan Newman
* The Note
* Not Geniuses
* Salon
* Scripting News
* Seeing the Forest
* 201k.com
* Talking Points Memo
* TAPPED
* The Stakeholder--Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
* Unofficial Kerry Blog
* Whiskey Bar
____________________________________

YUP,

I definitely smell something funny here

[kainah]

41. That's the problem that seems to be overlooked here

edited for clarity

Kos did not make an entry in his blog that said "they were mercenaries, screw them." Instead, someone else started a thread on his site (a "diary") asking whether the pictures of charred, dismembered bodies were appropriate front page news photos. Far down in the thread, kos said that the bodies of ALL the dead should be on the front page and THEN made a tasteless, over-the-top, emotional comment in a thread that had become highly charged. Which one of us, I ask, is not guilty of that same sin? But because Kos has a "famous" name and it was on dailyKos, the right went after him with a vengeance. No explanation, no apology would have made the tiniest difference. What Kerry, et al., have now done in pulling their ads -- and, most especially in delinking, portends an enormously chilling effect on the kind of dialogue we engage in around here every day.

Thank you, Atrios, for seeing the stakes.

[Must_B_Free]

18. United we stand, divided we fall

[IndianaGreen]

56. Some unity, when the candidate chooses the GOP side!

And turns his back on a liberal supporter.

[DaisyUCSB]

20. What the f are all of you people talking about? What did Kerry do?

Lemme guess, Atrios was a Dean blog? I just assume so because he was on Janeane Garofalos show.

And what controversy are you talking about.

[americanstranger]

32. Atrios has raised over $125K for Kerry to date.

That's right. Over $125 thousand dollars.

I'm not mad at Kerry personally over this - he can't be looking at blogs, I'm sure he's got bigger fish to fry.

This was some mid-level employee who made the decision, and it was the wrong decision. What are they gonna do - systematically cut loose the only place where they've got a decided edge in fundraising.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

-as

[DaisyUCSB]

39. What? Nobody is making any sense. The thread said Atrios wants out

what did Kerry do to piss everyone off? Nobody is being specific

[americanstranger]

40. The Short version:

Daily Kos posted about mercenaries killed in Fallujah last week. He ended his post with the phrase 'Screw 'em.'

Wingers took offense. a couple of rightard blogs started a targeted email campaign to get ads pulled off of Kos' site.

Kerry relented and pulled ads and de-linked the site - despite Kos being one of the heaviest hitters on the web in terms of raising campaign cash for Kerry.

Which I think is about the stupidest thing they could have done. They've set a precedent that if the Right whines loudly enough, they'll cut whoever they're whining about loose.

Hope this explains some of it.

-as

[kainah]

42. and Kos has raised even more, hasn't he? n/t

[americanstranger]

46. I'd assume so.

I know Atrios' numbers because I'm a regular commenter there.

-as

[momwarnedme]

21. How long before DU is unlinked?

I give it a week.

[dawn]

62. sadly, i agree...

people who comment on his site are already trying to get kerry to do just that.

from a comment on the site: "Second: Guys like me will make sure that Kerry doesn't reconsider any association with little Moonbats like Zuringa in Berkeley. He should disassociate himself with the Democratic Underground as well. I wrote 100 emails to the media and I am ready to write another 1000 if Kerry warms up to Zuringa after 2 weeks or pays him for "consulting" services. "

http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/001494.html#001494

[59millionmorons]

22. I am with Kerry with this one

Let me refrase this, I dont agree with taking this down(which of course Kerry probably has nothing to do with) but I can understand why.

When I read his comments I was a little embarressed. And I visit Kos's site daily. Apparently by his apology he was too. That's all Kerry needs is the wingnuts taking something from his site to hammer him with.

[madfloridian]

23. This statement from Atrios is pretty clear what we are facing:

Either we deal with it now or it just gets worse.

QUOTE:..."Anyway, I may change my mind about all of this at some future date. But, we'll be playing this game once per week until November unless people wise up. I'd hope that eventually our team will realize that once they cave into the Right's fake outrage-of-the-week, they'll just keep coming back, but until they do...."

[59millionmorons]

26. I Believe Kos and Atrios are friends

I think I saw pictures last week of them together, so this doesnt surprise me he would do this.

PS I love both of those sites.


Yup they are friends
http://www.dailykos.com/main/7

[madfloridian]

28. Love the pic of Atrios. LOL

Funny one.

[Karenina]

24. Kos made himself clear in his apology.

Re-link. End of story.

[Robbien]

29. Kerry delinked not because he disagreed with Kos

He delinked because he ran scared of what others might think of Kerry's association with Kos.

The Kerry campaign needs to rethink what they have done by delinking Kos. I am an ABB who planned on holding my nose and vote for Kerry. I have some rethinking to do myself.

[59millionmorons]

34. Take Kos out of this

Now say Blog soandso says the KKK is great. Should Kerry keep that up?

[madfloridian]

36. That is just what Atrios said.

Read the whole post of his. It is a complicated situation that is not going away. Kerry can address it now, or unlink everyone....because people will post dissenting views. That is part of America.
That is why Atrios asks to be unlinked. He may have said something in the past.
This is very serious now, with the bloggers being a big part of the political culture. It is not a Kerry/Kos thing.
It is about whether Kerry will permit dissenting views, and say that people have a right to them.

[Robbien]

38. Again, Kerry caved to people who protested to the link

Just like the radio station may cave to the people who do not like Guy James' show. Just like CNN caved to pressure over the boy who yawned at Bush.

Kerry caved and turned his back on one of his own.

[dawn]

25. Wow..

I can't believe the Kerry campaign delinked Kos for speaking his mind. I hope they reconsider!

I think all war deaths are atrocities. Yes, including the mercenaries. So I don't really agree with him when he said "screw them." (However, I do see why he said it, especially after I read the apology)

But thank goodness we live in a country where people can disagree.

.
.
.

or do we? this is scary stuff.

Did you see this link http://michael-friedman.com/archives/000311.html? It's a campaign by a blog to drive all of kos' advertisers away.

If they had their way, we'd be living in a totalitarian state by now.

[Tatiana]

27. I agree with Atrios.

I also agreed with Kos, but even if I didn't, I do realize that this is (used to be) a country where we celebrated free speech and the exchange of ideas, even if we disagree with them.

Shame on Kerry's campaign. Instead of delinking Kos and running scared from GOPatriotism, Kerry ought to be out in the forefront articulating what should be done with the criminals we have in the White House.

[dogman]

30. Dissent is Patriotism

Clark didn't reject Moore's deserter statement and suffered politically, especially when other Dems failed to support him. Why let the RW determine what's PC while they sh*t all over us. Kerry needs to stand up for his base too.

[demgrrrll]

35. And another thing.. operating on the premise that the Republicans

are bullies backing down like this is seen as a capitulation
which inspires more intense attacks.
A bully surveys the room and chooses the person who seems to
be the most vulnerable. Their interest isn't really about
the "outrage" it is a test to see how far they can go.
They must be stopped NOW.

[Walt Starr]

31. Atrios did the right thing

Kerry got the nomination then had a spinectomy.

Kerry pisses me off more ever day.

[holeinboatoutatsea]

45. I don't understand why you even read this board anymore?

You have been knocking the nominee for months, and swore you wouldn't vote dem if Kerry was the nominee.

I'm not trying to be rude, but why bother to stick around?

[Mari333]

33. The right wing pretends to care about the soldiers?

No they dont. They are ignorant chest thumping morons. I have a kid over there in Baghdad, and the place I will go is to DU if anything happens to him, not to some reich wing site full of chickenhawks.
Kerry either is with the Dems or against them. Its that simple.
I posted www.calltoconscience.net on Kerrys site once and they took it off, and Im the mother of a kid in Baghdad.
I agree with atrios. Kerry better get his shit together and not pander to the Reich wing.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[robbedvoter]

37. Bravo Atrios! Grassroots aren't just money!

Time to learn. Clark said to Kerry:

Give them hell and never retreat!

he misunderstood it for
"Give them the upper hand and retreat like hell"

[JohnOneillsMemory]

43. Kerry is protecting his "I support the troops, Bush doesn't" card to win.

That's all. Simple theater.

Kerry's biggest hand in the poker game with Rove is the veteran war hero royal straight flush.

Allowing Rove to claim that he supports someone who said 'screw'em' would be like throwing away cards from his strongest hand in the future.

Theater, folks. It's just theater.

[madfloridian]

44. The last holdout caves in.

I respect the views she states, but I do not for one minute think it has nothing to do with the pressure from the right wing sites, from the campaign, and from her own party.

I just asked for our donation back.
http://mitakidesforcongress.com/blogland.htm

I have lost faith in our party now.

[madfloridian]

48. This has saddened me so. It reminds me of the campaign.

Not one thing Howard Dean said has been debunked, in fact it was all true. He is saying the same things and more in his interviews now.
The candidates and their supporters called him too blunt, too outspoken, not speaking properly, not speaking correctly, too honest.

Then it became like this: He will hurt Kerry, he needs to hush, he must not say anything to hurt Kerry.

Now it is Kos's turn to be Deaned. Most who withdrew their support and most here who defend those who withdrew support...fully understand that this is not about what Kos said. It is about the fact that it was not proper or politically correct. Part of his anger stems from the taxpayers footing the bill, part from the fact that the 5 regular soldiers were not much noticed that day.

I feel he will survive this, but what a shame. The WH sent word to Kerry to hush Dean up on the Spain attacks. Dean was told to reword. Dean now says the very same thing, and he is not attacked for it.

Kos will survive this. I just worry about our party, will it survive the fear of offending the right wing. NOW let us watch the attack site celebrate their win. They have succeeded in getting Kerry to unlink, and 4 candidates to withdraw their ads. They deserve credit.
http://michael-friedman.com/archives/000311.html

And before someone jumps on here to criticize and say it is not about Dean.....I want to clarify. Yes, it is in a way. It is about when and how the party will shun people who speak their minds.

[madfloridian]

50. They have added the Draft Kerry/Edwards site to attack. More.

They have gotten an environmental group to withdraw support.

They are WINNING!

Also they are after the Minnesota State Caucus, the DCCC (Pelosi's group) and DNC.

They will win.

[UTUSN]

49. Atrios is my hero. KERRY is my hero. What Can I Say? n/t

[rumguy]

51. Update: Kos has a new congressional advertiser!

Take a look:

http://www.jeffseemannforcongress.com/

The Jeff Seemann for Congress campaign recently learned of the controversy brewing regarding www.dailykos.com

Blogs like Daily Kos are some of the best byproducts of the country we live in....a country that cherishes its' right to speak freely. Weblogs and other independent forms of expression are extremely important today because they allow for everyone’s voice to be heard.

We were saddened to hear that three advertisers pulled their ads on the site because of the remarks posted on the blog. The comments may be controversial, but they are just as relevant. The ability to allow comments like those read on Daily Kos is a testament to the virtues this country was founded on, especially the right to free speech.

Our campaign has decided that because of the recent events we will step in and advertise on www.dailykos.com. We have made this decision for two reasons:

1) We firmly believe in the First Amendment and everyone's right to say whatever he or she chooses on their own website.

2) We refuse to allow our campaign to be bullied by the right wing like they bullied Kos' previous advertisers.

This guy deserves our support!!

[madfloridian]

52. Good statement from him.

Looks like it is paying off financially. Good for him.

[Robbien]

53. My very first campaign contribution ever went to Jeff

And he is not even in my state. It doesn't surprise me that he is taking a stand on this issue. You Rock!

[IndianaGreen]

54. Jeff Seemann has more cojones than you-know-who

I don't see Seemann kow-towing to the wishes of the owner of the racist website Little Green Footballs.

[rumguy]

55. no one should be kow-towing to the Little Green Goofballs

I mean that site is one sick, twisted hate-fest...

[dawn]

59. I agree...

I can't believe the ignorance peddled at that site.

:puke:

here's what the morans there had to say about DU recently:

"And meanwhile, Kerry’s site still has a link to Democratic Underground, a loathsome loony left site with a level of sheer malevolence that makes Zuniga’s comments look like pure patriotism."

[madfloridian]

60. You are so right, IG

I still remember that Bush protest he led last year in the cold dreary rain. Megaphone and all.

[madfloridian]

57. Atrios has picked up on his statement.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

Good for Jeff.

[Tatiana]

58. GOOD NEWS!

Good going for Kos. Hopefully more will step up to the plate.

[dawn]

61. people on Kerry's site are trying to get him to de-link from DU, too

I didn't have the patience to read them all, but...

a commentor named "kerryisgreat" said:


"For these reasons, Kerry must not succumb to any visible pandering to the Moonbats who feel our men and women died in vain.

Or he will lose the Lieberman and Gephardt crowd.

Second: Guys like me will make sure that Kerry doesn't reconsider any association with little Moonbats like Zuringa in Berkeley. He should disassociate himself with the Democratic Underground as well. I wrote 100 emails to the media and I am ready to write another 1000 if Kerry warms up to Zuringa after 2 weeks or pays him for "consulting" services. Zuringa's career with the Democrats is over and he can go form his own Moonbat Party. Long live the Democrats."


Why do we always pander to the Lieberman Democrats?!

[rumguy]

63. there's trolls all over that blog

I was reading through it today, and trolls were everywhere. I'm sure that is a troll...

[Robbien]

64. But who is to say that the majority of people who asked

Kerry to delink Kos were not trolls? As noted above, the push against Kos was a rabid right site.

[rumguy]

65. some were, some were not - Kos had plenty of defenders too