If one of the 4 contractors mutilated in Fallujah was a woman...

[DoNotRefill]

does it change how you view what happened?

I've heard from multiple unconnected sources that the fourth person killed in the attack was a woman.

What say you?

[Qanisqineq]

1. No, I don't care

I am a woman and I don't value women more than men. I hated when they went on and on about the women POW's too. Who cares whether any of the dead are men or women? Is one more precious than the other? ARGH!

[DoNotRefill]

3. Ah. But Islam....

generally treats women differently than men, right? Given that, if they mutilated a woman, wouldn't that tell us something about the perpetrators?

[Qanisqineq]

8. the original post didn't ask about how they felt

it asked if I would feel differently if one of them was a woman.

[aquart]

16. Like what?

Like you think Iraqis wouldn't mutilate a woman?

Iraq was Babylon. That civilization was the master of cruelty. The area is saturated with it.

As for Muslims.....ever heard of honor killings?

[Skip Intro]

7. Completely agree

life is life

[Quetzal]

2. The names of the contractors are here

http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/2972020/detail.html

[DoNotRefill]

5. We shall see...

Originally, the reports said there were 8 Americans involved. Both of my sources are certain that a woman was one of those killed, and they both run in completely different circles. I wonder how sure we are of the total number killed?

[VolcanoJen]

12. Yes.... what happened to the "8 Contractors Attacked" initial reports?

Does anyone have a link to the initial reports, which indicated that 8 civilian contractors (no indication of nationality at that time) had been attacked? That's my recollection of the reported story, as it happened, and many other DUers seem to recall it the same way.

And if the "one of those killed was a woman" rumor is indeed false, it needs to be debunked, once and for all. Otherwise, the issue plays on emotions, and exploits an already edgy American mood. The entire tactic smacks of propaganda, and it's increasingly troubling.

[leftofthedial]

4. makes no difference

they risked what they risked (utterly foolishly IMHO) were paid good money for it and paid the price.

It is impossible to condone the behavior of the Iraqis in desecrating the bodies, but it is hard to blame Iraqis for taking up arms against the invaders and occupiers of their nation.

[realdeal22k]

6. The bigger question...

Will the people that are assigned to pacify the ring of terrorists use excessive force in panic mode because the terrorists burned and mutilated a woman?

[rooboy]

9. And if the 4 "contractors" who died were Syrians...

would American public have given a rat's ass about it? Would they have not given a crap about retaliating against the people of Fallujah?

What say you?

[MrSlayer]

10. No, it's horrific no matter what the gender.

Quite frankly if there was a woman there I'd hope she died immediately. Can you imagine if a psycho bunch like that took a woman alive? When the Soviets fought in Afghanistan they learned to keep cyanide capsules on their person for use if captured. The Arab people do not play games and will not hesitate to torture you to death.

[adjwilli]

15. Wow, Afghanis and Iraqis are soooooooooo similar

To expect that all "Arab people" are like the Afghanis or the Iraqis is completely racist! First, neither Afghanis nor Iraqis are Arabs. Afghani people are Afghani people. Yes, most of them happen to be Muslim, but that does not make them Arab. The Iraqi people are Persian, who also happen to be Muslim, thus, they are not necessarily Arab either.

But even if both groups were Arab, which again they are not, to think that all of them would act the towards women in a military fight is absurd. And yes, these attacks were a military fight. Terrorism in today's speech is nothing more than military term. What we call the "war on terror" is really a war on people who don't like the United States; nothing specific to the way it is faught. But to go back to my original point, to think that all Arabs who would capture a woman would treat her as badly as the Afghanis treated the Soviets is to commit a great misdeed. To say that "Arab people do not play games and will not hesitate to torture you to death" is to apply a general, negative stereotype that, unless you are well acquainted with every Arab person ever - or in your definition any brown Muslim person ever - you have no grounding for.

Using the reasoning that every brown person who happens to be Muslim is a vicious, cruel torturer would be the same as saying every light skined, light haired protestant is a greedy fucking bastard who has no respect for other cultures or peoples. Should we continue to extend this reasoning to absurdity?

If what you say of Arab people is true - or again brown-skinned Muslims - and you can judge 1.2 billion people in the world based on how a certain army treated another army, then you can conclude a lot of things. You can conclude that every white, Christian person advocates genocide. The Nazis sure did. The British sure did. The Russians sure did. If you only need one military force, like the Afghan armies that faught against Russian, to make stereotype true, then those three examples make what would be true of Europeans and Anglo-Americans that much more true.

This stereotypical thinking just doesn't work. Not all Muslims are Arab, even if they're brown. And not all of those brown Muslims are twisted tortures. Or at least not twisted tortures as much as we are genocidal maniacs, and if that is the case, we'd have no moral authority to judge Arabs any way.

[MrSlayer]

18. Yikes, Let me change that to the radical Arab Islamics.

That's what I meant. Those extremists that keep their own people in terror and dominate through fear. I should have chosen my words more carefully. O8)

[adjwilli]

22. That's an improvement

I really think it is important not to stereotype people.

"Radical Arab Islamics" doesn't cut it. Neither Afghans or Iraqis are Arabs. So maybe Radical Islamics might work, but radical is an ambiguous term. Islamics that keep their own people in terror and dominate through fear might be even better still, but if you're going to be that descriptive, including the religion is not even necessary, unless you wish to say something specifically about Muslim people who have those attributes. But anyone with attributes like that - keeping people in terror and dominating through fear - would be a cruel, cold blooded torturer, as that is part of keeping people in terror and dominating through fear. If you are saying there's something unique about Muslims who do this, I failed to see it.

[Orangeone]

26. I get sick

when some Americans act like they never do/did things like what happened in Fallujah. They totally forget about the lynchings in the South, about Emmit Till.

[leanings]

20. The Afghani is a currency, Afghans are people. n/t/

d

[RowWellandLive]

11. They were all men

so it's a moot point. I feel the same outrage as I would if there was a woman involved. These were four human beings with families who loved them. They were brutally murdered and their deaths celebrated, their bodies mutilated, burnt, prodded, desecrated, and displayed and hung. It is outrageous and to be condemned by all civilized society.

[maggrwaggr]

13. gee, everybody's forgetting the 5 soldiers who were blown up same day

anybody care about them?

[fujiyama]

14. Don't forget

51 died in March alone.

God, how people can support this war, is beyond my comprehension. I really hope Kerry chooses a candidate that was against the war -- preferably Clark or Graham. It must be argued that this war was a serious mistake that has not contributed to the safety of Americans in any way.

[Ilsa]

24. Exactly!

How quickly the public forgets about the ones that weren't making $1,000 a day, the ones that had to buy their own stinking body armor. The five soldiers are now just a footnote in history while the mercenaries will have their deaths "avenged" by the long arm of the BFFuckingEE.

BTW, those all look like men's names to (sexist) me. And it wouldn't matter one bit to me if one was a woman.

[Must_B_Free]

17. Dead is Dead

regardless of gender. Beyond that, the mutilation is irrelevant.

[wickerwoman]

19. No, it's irrelevant what gender they were.

But then I'm not the kind of person to want to bomb another city into oblivion no matter what some members of that city did. I'm afraid it would make a difference to the kind of people who would.

[leanings]

21. None of them were women.

The fields these folks are drawn from, i.e SF/SEALs etc., don't allow women. No women has the experience/training to be hired for a slot like that.

[maddezmom]

23. nope, doesn't change my opinion

a person's sex doesn't make their life more important.

[Zynx]

25. Why would that change my opinion?

[Logansquare]

27. You mean the fourth *man* mentioned in the Reuters article below?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&e=6&u=/nm/20040402/us_nm/iraq_usa_identities_dc_4