Are comments like these acceptable to describe the Fallujah incident?

[JohnLocke]

"You reap what you sow"
"Payback is a bitch"
"Karma is great, eh?"
(etc., etc...)

and

"Well, if I was an Iraqi, I'd do it, too"
"Can't say I blame them"
(etc., etc...)

[neverborn]

1. first 3 ok, not last 2

I agree - it's karma. These were Pinochet mercenary thugs.

HOWEVER, the last two not only say that, but go as far as to glorify/justify murder -- and say that they'd DO IT. I wouldn't.

[Guaranteed]

2. It's tough, but I tend to think they're not.

I sway both ways on this issue, but, ultimately, I don't think that we can condone Iraqis killing Americans.

[Doomsayer13]

3. the butchering of civilians like this is apprehensible

disgusting and should not be tolerated.

[Guaranteed]

6. Reprehensible, too

:P

[Doomsayer13]

55. whoops

.

[Aidoneus]

7. what "civilians"?

the butchering of thousands of civilians before this was what, then?

[Doomsayer13]

54. stop trying to put words in my mouth

Where did I say that civilians lost in the war was okay? Because Iraqi civilians died in the Iraq War does not make this act any less reprehensible and disgusting.

[Aidoneus]

100. I left the question open

I just think some perspective was needed. Navy SEALs on mercenary duty getting themselves perished in a warzone under occupation isn't exactly something I'll fly into hysterics over.

[EdGy]

106. BUT 4 AMERICANS WERE KILLED!

what's wrong with you? are you seriously trying to say that the lives of hundreds of Iraqis are equal to the lives of four Americans? What's wrong with you? You must hate America! </sarcasm>

I think the reponses to these killings is very telling, especially when compared to the (non)response to the deaths of thousands (about 10,000) Iraqi civilians. Yes yes, everyone says, oh it's awful that Iraqis were killed, but I did not see the kind of outrage over the death of Iraqi children under the rain of US bullets and bombs that I've seen over the death of four US mercenaries. This is why US foreign policy is a disaster.

[JanMichael]

8. There should be a name for "More than just a civilian in a war zone".

Not to make a value judgement on any of this crap but to call them "civilians" seems inaccurate.

:shrug:

[Aidoneus]

10. there are a few terms that count well enough

"mercenary", "hired guns", etc..

[Doomsayer13]

56. civilian

refers to non-military non-combatant. These were American contractors who had a non-military purpose in Iraq, therefore they were civilians.

[Nihil]

91. Read it again

"Civilian" refers to non-military non-combatant.

These were American contractors who had a military purpose in Iraq,
therefore they were not civilians.

[Aidoneus]

101. That is incorrect

They were ex-Navy SEALs and ex-Army performing military duties. Mercenaries are always thought of as the worst in a battlefield situation, because they chose to be there and profit from it.

[JanMichael]

103. Gotcha.

:-)

[EdGy]

4. why don't you americans stop whining

when people in the rest of the world dare to stand up to you and yes, even do nasty stuff to your special operations forces even if they are "privatized."

[KurtNilsen]

92. PLEASE DON'T SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE REST OF THE WORLD!

[EdGy]

109. ??? WTF

I did not claim to speak for the rest of the world.

I only told those Americans who are complaining to stop their whining. This is the price they have to pay to be the world superpower, to run a world empire, which most Americans seem very happy to reap the benefits of (some at DU excepted).

I find your response very interesting, Norwegian that you claim to be.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

5. Can I ask what your agenda is here?

It seems that you're trying to paint DU as an uber-leftie fringe group of hard-hearted peaceniks. I think you lack any empathy with the Iraqis who we have occupied and terrorized for over a year now. Don't bullshit me and say you'd take the high road.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

19. Cause he's a....

nevermind.

[JohnLocke]

23. Excuse me.

I'm not trying to paint DU as "an uber-leftie fringe group of hard-hearted peaceniks." If you think that because I am nauseous at the thought of security guards being killed and their bodies mutilated, I lack "empathy with the Iraqis who we have occupied and terrorized for over a year now," I don't know what I can tell you.

P.S. Saying that it's unacceptable to advocate the killing and post-mortum debasement of does not make me blind to the suffering of the Iraqis. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. Nor does my sympathy for a conquered nation diminish

my feelings that the murders of the mercenaries were horrific.

[bemildred]

29. None of the statements given "advocates" anything.

Neither do they condone anything. They express a certain
understanding of why things occur and how Iraqis might feel.

I generally disagree with the idea that thoughts and speech
are "acceptable" or "unacceptable"; it is not appropriate for
a free people to have their thoughts and feelings dictated to
them to enforce some sort of herd comformity.

[Guaranteed]

53. How about an "excuse" for it?

Whatever word you want to use, why would someone make a statement like one of those?

And I'm not saying that they're entirely wrong.

[bemildred]

58. People say those things because

that is what they think or that is what they feel.
That fact that some are mentally or emotionally unable
to wrap their minds around it does not mean they have
to shut up or feel guilty.

[DrWeird]

34. Torture?

Well if we're making stuff up now why don't we include rape?

[Djinn]

37. Advocating is the wrong word

"Saying that it's unacceptable to advocate the killing and post-mortum debasement of does not make me blind to the suffering of the Iraqis. The two are NOT mutually exclusive."

Personally I think it's awful as well, but what I find even more distasteful is that people don't seem to be able to put this into context - when an Iraqi see's a house blown up with bits and pieces of people flung around and children mutilated by bombs...maybe just maybe THEY TOO find that awful and sickening and get angry.

I've stopped watching the news coverage because people don't seem to make the connection that after THOUSANDS of dead countrymen the Iraqi's are unlikely to EVER view Americans in any way other to the way YOU view the people cheering in Fallujah

[KurtNilsen]

94. Not to speak for the other poster,

but I would guess he is trying to point out that large sections of DU are NOT "peaceniks", but instead rabid hatemongering violence lovers.

[BillZBubb]

9. No problem with any of the comments.

I don't agree with all of them, but I have no problem with others making any of them. All are understandable and defendable positions.

I do have a problem with those supporting some sort of drastic retaliation against Fallujah.

[themann1086]

11. Unsure...

I most certainly do not condone these horrific and brutal attrocities... however... I understand where they are coming from... We did invade their country... and we aren't even giving them open elections... but the killing of any person, for whatever reason, is still tragic.

"Walk a mile in another person's shoes... then walk a mile more."

[northzax]

12. well, you know

sometimes you're the windshield
sometimes you're the bug,
sometimes you're the Lousiville Slugger, baby
sometimes you're the ball.

how's that?

[supernova]

13. Well, they're all free speech

but doesn't mean that they aren't tasteless, tacky, and without merit.

[ROC]

14. Responses are unacceptable.

People who accept employment as contractors in a war zone, surely know the risks. I don't understand how we can condone this kind of killing. It ensures my lack of empathy for the Iraqis terrorists. Apparently the dead Americans were providing security for food shipments. They may have been armed, but food distribution is humanitarian. Given what's happened, it is no wonder the NGOs aren't willing to undertake this mission.

[EdGy]

22. "food shipments"

yeah right :eyes:

[DrWeird]

33. What iraqi terrorists?

These were civilians. Children. Vigilantes.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theHandpuppet]

97. This may help clarify...

... what many have presumed (wrongly, apparently, including me) was a mission to protect a humanitarian shipment of food and why there was such rage on the streets of Fallujah.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/01/1621223

[EdGy]

105. "This is the food supply for the US Army,"

quote from above link.

They were serving a military function, NOT a humanitarian one.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. Whose war is it, anyway?

Who's country is the battleground?

Who's the aggressor?

Who are the occupied?

Rudyard Kipling, of all people, might have some answers.

"A Pict Song"

Rome never looks where she treads.
Always her heavy hooves fall
On our stomachs, our hearts or our heads;
And Rome never heeds when we bawl.
Her sentries pass on -- that is all,
And we gather behind them in hordes,
And plot to reconquer the Wall,
With only our tongues for our swords.

We are the Little Folk -- we!
Too little to love or to hate.
Leave us alone and you'll see
How we can drag down the State!
We are the worm in the wood!
We are the rot at the root!
We are the taint in the blood!
We are the thorn in the foot!

Mistletoe killing an oak --
Rats gnawing cables in two --
Moths making holes in a cloak --
How they must love what they do!
Yes -- and we Little Folk too,
We are busy as they --
Working our works out of view --
Watch, and you'll see it some day!

No indeed! We are not strong,
But we know peoples that are.
Yes, and we'll guide them along
To smash and destroy you in War!
We shall be slaves just the same?
Yes, we have always been slaves,
But you -- you will die of the shame,
And then we shall dance on your graves!

[bemildred]

16. Acceptable to whom?

Who is to judge, and what is their competency for that position?

[thebigidea]

17. Taste red hot freedom, Iraqi scum!

Feast on our brutal liberty, you Baathist remnants!

[MissMarple]

20. Unacceptable. We're supposed to be better than that.

I understand the impulse, but it's still a sad and tragic state of affairs.

[Fovea]

21. That depends on what you mean by 'acceptable'

Are they wise or well chosen? No.
Are they protected? Yes.

I think that comments like these may prevent
the real thoughtful analysis that American needs to do, presented with the reality on the ground in Iraq in a way so shocking that is unspinnable.

[Jacobin]

24. Does this mean that you would not fight to repel occupiers of this

country, were we invaded?

Just curious.

Or does that right only apply to Americans?

[supercrash]

25. Oh...I would fight

And if the invader was killing my friends and family...and bombing the water plant that I drink from.....Then I might even drag a body or two around

[meow mix]

32. i would drag bodies too

even "symbolic" targets.. like these food delivery boys.

im sure,
like they were hired for thier ability to deliver food, rather than thier ability to kill people.

killing in iraq is great $$money$$ - if you live to collect.

[JohnLocke]

27. I would fight the troops of the opposing force...

...NOT kill and mutilate four security guards who were securing a food shipment. :eyes:

[Djinn]

42. easy to say

from the safety and comfort of your house in the States.

You may find it a bit hard to get to the heavilly armed invading force and decide to go after their accomplices.

Also - where are you getting that they were security guards protecting a food aid shipment. They may have been but the US govt is hardly going to say "they were South American thugs we hired to do our dirty work". Either way all the news sources I've seen have said they were escorting food to a MILITARY base, it was food for US soldiers, not poor Iraqi's.

However, no matter their reason for being there, Iraqi's will view them as American's or collaborators with the Americans

Edit: re-erading the posts noticed that you havn't specically said "food AID" JohnLOckebut this is the assumption others have made - I havn't seen a single news source that has said they were on a humanitarian mission. At BEST they were protecting supplies going to a US military base, at worst...God only knows what they were/had been doing.

[theHandpuppet]

93. I think this might explain...

... just whose food was being protected, if indeed that was the case, and why there was such rage on the streets of Fallujah.

Any death diminishes us all, but rather than just accept whatever sound bytes we get from the media, it dosn't take much scratching beneath the surface to often find there is so much more to the story...

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/01/1621223

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

26. I voted all unacceptable.

sorry, this incident is pretty bad...hard to justify or explain away descerating bodies.

[DrWeird]

30. Of course it is.

Like millions of americans wouldn't love to do the same thing to Osama.

[JohnLocke]

35. security guards securing food = Osama? WTF!?

[DrWeird]

36. Securing food? You mean they weren't delivering teddy bears?

They were fucking mercenaries. Why do you think there are mercenaries in Iraq? There's no legitmate reason, so it must be illegitimate. They were probably testing the latest in exploding bullet technology on bystanders. Obviously they must have been doing something fucked up for civilians to be so pissed.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnLocke]

40. "They were probably testing exploding bullet technology" -- Any links?

Or do you prefer to make wild unsubstantiated speculations?
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[DrWeird]

43. Of course I do.

<http://www.afji.com/bullets/>

American mercenaries have been testing blended metal bullets (banned by Geneva) in Iraq. Notice the reference to Blackwater, the company these mercs worked for.

Now, how about you back up your wild unsubstantiated speculations about food shipments and torture?

[Wonk]

45. Paging JohnLocke. JohnLocke to the white courtesy keyboard, please. nt

[JohnLocke]

48. So they've been testing them -- not on bystanders, as you claim. A lie.

[thebigidea]

110. "probably" does not equal "claim" nor does it mean he lied.

[Djinn]

44. have you any links

that use more than "US govt says so" to say they were delivering food aid???

They were delivering supplies to US MILITARY bases

[theHandpuppet]

31. Well...

I think all killing, no matter who's committing it, is a tragedy and indicative of failure.

However, I don't see much difference between some of the comments listed and their actual sources, ie, Biblical passages:

"For he who sows to flesh will . . . reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will . . . reap everlasting life" St Paul (Gal. 6:8).

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword shall die by the sword." -- Jesus Christ, Matthew 10:52

So it depends on how the comments are framed, I guess. One can use either or both of these quotes as a sad footnote to the events in Fallujah, or can use them to taunt and gloat. The former would be an accceptable comment to me, but the latter would not. Context matters.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

38. I guess im a little suprised by the "all aceptable" vote.

just me, I guess.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

47. It's called free speech

[mike_c]

41. payback IS a bitch....

Mercenaries making a profit on imperialism and death got their just rewards, IMO.

[maggrwaggr]

46. I think they should all be censored. Whoever uses them should be banned

And if JohnLocke is offended by anyone else, the person who offended him again should be banned forever.

[JohnLocke]

49. Hilarous, maggrwaggr.

I'm not calling for the censoring of these phrases. I just want to have a discussion about their usage.

[KurtNilsen]

99. A comedian...

Great....

[Skittles]

50. I think they are awful

vigilante justice can never be condoned.

[dpibel]

104. Glad to hear it

More people need to restate their foursquare opposition to Geo. Boosh's foreign policy.

[fujiyama]

51. Those statements aren't acceptable...

Then again, neither was this war.

[MrSlayer]

52. I'm against the War but there is no way I'll cheer our boys being killed.

Or say they deserved it or any of that bullshit. Fuck that. It's disgusting to gloat or be happy about what happened to those guys yesterday.

[bhunt70]

57. I agree

[mhr]

59. They Were Not Our Boys, These Were Paid Killers, Mercenaries

They are no longer "our boys" once they leave the military and sell themselves to the highest bidder.

Please go back and take logic 101.

[Doomsayer13]

60. "Paid Killers" bringing food?

And aren't American citizens supposed to be our boys? So when Americans are killed by hostile fire abroad, the US government should just shurg their shoulders?

[mhr]

62. We Saw No Sympathy For The Innocent Iraqis Mowed Down Last Spring

All that was heard on these shores was

Blood, Blood, Blood, Death, Death, Death, Shock and Awe!

Further, there is no proof that these mercenaries ere actually escorting a food convey.

One can more readily speculate that they were on a block ops mission using the food convoy as cover.

Maybe, just maybe, the insurgents have figured out which mercenaries are actually working CIA black ops and have taken appropriate measures.

[Doomsayer13]

65. so all you have is your speculation

to back up your claims that they were paid killers. I'm sorry, that's not good enough.

Innocent Iraqis killed during the conflict was horrific and sad, but that in no way lesses the reprehensibility of the gunning down and desecration of these American citizens who were merely riding in cars through the city. Americans died yesterday, in a brutal and inhumane fashion, and we should give pay respect to their memory. It's disgusting to insinuate that their brutal deaths were somehow justified becuase of the actions of the American government a year ago. These men and woman had families and livelihoods, just like the Iraqi Civilians who've perished as well.

[mhr]

67. With All The lies And Deception That Got Us Into This Conflict

all any of us have is intelligent speculation as to the truth.

Too many lies have been told and too much blood is on the hands of this administration for me to believe anything OFFICIAL!

If you choose to live with your Eyes Wide Shut, go ahead.

[Doomsayer13]

68. If living like that

If living with my "Eyes Wide Shut" means paying proper respects to the Americans who were murdered, bodies lit ablaze, dismembered, and strung up by the nearest bridge then I will gladly do so.

[mhr]

70. Then You Would Politely Be Called A Fool

I no longer trust this government to tell me any truth.

I no longer trust the corporate controlled media to tell me any truth.

I no longer trust my fellow Americans to demonstrate collective common sense.

Once again, if you choose to live like an ostrich, go ahead.

[Doomsayer13]

71. there's a difference between questioning

and equating American citizens and the US military with the Waffen SS. You're quick to call me ignorant when you have nothing but speculation and conjecture as well. That's fair enough, if you want to live your life yelling at the rain, you can be my guess. I'll go on being an ostrich.

[mhr]

77. Apparently, Unlike Yourself, I served In The Intelligence Community

I have worked under cover before and know all to well how easy it is to deceive.

Hence, my speculation is intelligent based on real world experience.

BTW, I never yell at the rain.

Why, the rain is honest and predictable. The fact that it gets me wet is not rains fault.

[Doomsayer13]

80. oh

so becuase you've served in the intelligence community before, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, your unfounded speculations about US military atrocities is more likely to be true? That's a stretch.

[mhr]

83. Hardly, I Asked For No Benefit Of The Doubt

I have travelled places that most never get to see.

I also understand how easy it would be for a rogue White House to do many nasty things we will never hear about, all under the cover of black ops.

[Doomsayer13]

84. what I'm saying

is that as long as we don't know the facts we shouldn't make any speculations. What I do know is that 4 Americans were brutally murdered, their bodies desecrated in an inhumane and humiliating manner. Until I have some sort of proof that they were involved in black ops activities, I'm going to pay proper respects for the dead and the families of the dead and not go around saying "they got what was coming to them".

[mhr]

86. No Problem, I Never Said They "Got What Was Coming To Them"

I am just not sympathetic like others are based on my suspicions.

They may actually deserve their end. We will never know.

If they were regular troops that would be different, those folks are there against their will - stuck in the lies and distortion of the Bush administration.

These paid volunteers went willingly to Iraq knowing the risks of a developed and existing situation.

[Doomsayer13]

87. that's fair enough

hopefully one day we will know the truth

[ScreamingMeemie]

112. I have sympathy for ALL who have found themselves entangled

in this farcical battle for "freedom". One can feel for both sides. :shrug:

[charlie]

63. Food security is the story today

And Jessica Lynch was a steely Rambette shot, stabbed, and sodomized -- until we learned she was a hapless scared kid battered in a vehicle accident before being abused by the Bushco PR imperative. I'd wait a while before holding fast to "official" accounts of their duties.

[theHandpuppet]

98. If "food security" was the mission...

... this may help clarify things a bit for those who pictured men on trucks delivering food to the poor of Fallujah. I have to say this was a real eye-opener for me:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/01/1621223

[MrSlayer]

64. Paid killers? Maybe in the very loosest sense. They were security.

Paid killer implies they were assassins or hitmen. These guys are hired to protect the companies' products and personnel in hostile areas. They do not go out and engage in offensive combat or kill people indiscriminately. They use force when necessary to defend themselves and their employers from these insurgents/terrorists. I believe these particular guys were delivering food. And any American overseas is one of my boys at the end of the day be they freeper, liberal, black, white, gay, straight or whatever. It was disgusting what happened yesterday and it's even more disgusting to be happy about it.

[mhr]

66. How Do You Know That They Were Not CIA Operatives Using

The food convoy story as cover?

With all the lies, deception, and bad reporting, I don't believe ANYTHING official about Iraq.

[MrSlayer]

72. OK, conversely How do you know they were CIA operatives?

I don't know they weren't any more than you know they were. From what I read of the company the story sounds plausible. Could it be that these guys were just security? Is that not possible? Throwing out CIA and "Black Ops" sounds mysterious and conspiratorial and all but I think you're reaching here. These guys were just security guards that got nailed in a cowardly sneak attack and then desecrated and mutilated in a most horrific manner.

[mhr]

78. Hardly, I Have Worked In The Intelligence Community

Just imagine that you are trying to find out all you can about your enemy.

That enemy lives in the roughest, toughest part of town.

You not only have to infiltrate that enemy you also have to provide a reason to be there in the first place. Cover stories have to be credible to impartial and poorly informed observers.

Note that they were driving in a relatively normal vehicle. No heavily armored Humvee, etc. Also note that there was no other support or protection provided. The Marines would not intervene. Note to that we see no discussion of the food convoy they were supposedly protecting. All these dangling threads support the cover story idea.

Think about how you might set up a company that hires ex military personnel with skills conducive to black operations. Seems Blackwater security would be the perfect mechanism for collecting these type of individuals.

Think about why you might want to employ private operators to do your dirty work. It gives you plausible deniability if anything goes wrong.

etc, etc, etc

[MrSlayer]

81. Hmmm, you make some good points there.

I was thinking to myself, where are the other vehicles they were supposed to be guarding? Did they get away and it just so happens that these two SUVs were the only ones that got hit? It's not like they got hit by a division or even a platoon of people, according to the reports it was two guys with RPGs and they scored these two hits. So, it could be possible. I also remember reading that contractors had much better body armor and vehicles than even the real army. That doesn't seem to be the case here, so there's a maybe. I do agree that they would need to infiltrate the enemy but those two guys were never going to pass for Arabs. It would be like sending some square from Wisconsin to infiltrate the Mafia in New York City. Unless, of course, the pictures were phony. :tinfoilhat: Yeah, I agree with you somewhat about Blackwater, it would be a great place to recruit those types but would it be that public and blatant? It's possible, I suppose.

May I ask in what branch of the intelligence community you served? That is quite interesting to me.

[mhr]

85. Please Keep An Open Mind And Be Skeptical

My suspicions are based on all the loose threads surrounding this story.

I served in the Navy but would prefer not divulge the intelligence community link in this forum.

That is not to be evasive, we just don't know all the folks lurking here.

Despite that disclaimer, one could arrive at all these operational questions just by reading some of the better spy novels that talk about trade craft.

When it comes to organizing covert ops and spying there are only so many ways to go about it.

If the story has loose ends, always be skeptical.

[MrSlayer]

89. Well I'm more open now...

Fair enough on the nondisclosure. Well I don't know what happened except for the result. And even that could have been staged too I suppose or a diliberate setup with those guys being soak-offs. The whole thing could just be a farce to incite and anger the American people against Iraqis and thus support renewed bombing or whatever they are going to do in "retaliation". I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

[ScreamingMeemie]

111. So they deserve to be killed and dragged through the streets, and

hung up for all to jeer at?? That's wrong. I don't care what people "think" they were doing. No one deserves to die in this manner. And in Bush's economy they were lucky to have jobs.


Walk a mile...:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

61. I suggest you rent the film "Red Dawn"

It deals with how average Americans react to foreign invader and occupier. The American resistance never takes prisoners alive, and gives no quarter to the enemy and to those that collaborate with the occupation.

The horrors we have brought to the Iraqi people and to Iraqi society are far greater than the horrors unleashed on our contractors in Fallujah.

[Kenneth ken]

69. Unsure

they all seem too flippant to me. They might be marginally acceptable as part of a more expansive commentary, though even in a broader context, better phrasing could probably be found for most of them.

[Selwynn]

73. [edit - I'm and idiot and misread]

[sandnsea]

74. Terrorism isn't fighting a war

That's what differentiates terrorists from soldiers. What happened in Fallujah was terrorism, not war. There's no justification for it.

[Selwynn]

75. It's all unacceptable to me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

76. Yes they are all perfectly acceptable when viewed in context

"You reap what you sow"

Look whether you agree with my opinion or not, these individuals you describe as boy scouts work for PRIVATE FIRMS whose existance DEPEND on war and unrest. One can COUNT on war and UNREST happening, but it is ALL that has been happening since George W Bush came into office via HUGE contributions from the defense, big pharma, banking and energy companies..these companies profit immensely as do the individuals that work for them. That is SOWING WAR...I don't CARE if you disagree.


"Payback is a bitch"

We conducted a program on THEM called SHOCK AND AWE. To date, there is STILL no accurate civilian body count. Seems they did a little shock and awe of their own the other day.
BTW, does the name James Byrd ring a bell? This barbaric practice isn't unique to Iraqi's.

"Karma is great, eh?"

Well that statement is just inaccurate. That isn't how karma works.

"Well, if I was an Iraqi, I'd do it, too"

OK. So wherever in America you are, this country comes over with bombs and arms and planes and tanks and shock and awe. They shut down your nation....let it get looted, say they'll rebuild it for 100 times more than what it costs, shoot at civilians since they aren't really trained for peacekeeping and all you've known the last one year was death and violence and grief and destruction...then
what?

"Can't say I blame them"

I can't say I judge them any more harshly than I judge us.

[nayt]

79. probably none

if you're trying to get people to agree with you and vote for your guy.

[Donkeyboy75]

82. It's really a question of sensitivity

The first three are just heartless...that's why I find them unacceptable (for me to use, anyway). But if you put yourself in the position of some of these young men, both because of their current situation brought about by * and for the shameless brainwashing of power-hungry clerics, I can see why they hate America.

[leanings]

88. I'd say

the people who express these sentiments are reprehensible. It makes me ashamed of DU that these statements enjoy such wide support here. I'm glad that I know that DU isn't really at all representative of the average Democrat. Otherwise, I'd find another party to support.

[KurtNilsen]

96. hear hear...

The last few days have not been a credit to DU.

[DeepModem Mom]

90. Such comments allow DU to be portrayed as nut-fringe...

by almost all Americans, including Democrats. In my opinion, they undermine the writing and research done by so many posters, including some who have gained prominence using their own names, by undermining DU itself. We are the premiere forum for liberal thought on the internet. Our side is playing a very risky game, with very high stakes. Opposition to the war in Iraq on this forum is part of a much larger effort to gradually increase the number of Americans who oppose that war. Posts containing comments like the ones cited in the poll do this effort no good.

[Lefergus70]

107. If the general public showed as much concern about war victims on all

sides as DU contributors do, there would be much less bloodshed in the world. Yesterday I posted a NYT sampling of Americans' reactions to Fallujah and it added up to a collective shrug.

[JohnLocke]

117. Too true (nt).

[Design8edGrouch]

102. Horrible, brutal action, but

when evil is set in motion greater evil follows. Always. And besides, reaping what is sown IS cosmic truth. God is not mocked; what you reap is what you have sown

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

108. War is good for ratings

Fox, CNN etc. like nothing more than a good conflict. It's easy for the O'reilly's of the world to say we need "a final solution" when they get into their BMW's at night and drive home. I understand this is the American way but it don't make it right.

Armchair generals who say "Oh they have it coming to them" just disgust me. They stand on the sideline and say "let's take em out" short for "kill the bastards"! It panders to their rage and shows their ignorance.

[ScreamingMeemie]

113. All of them make me want to vomit.

n/t

[noonwitch]

114. I don't agree with the statements, but I do believe in free speech.

So, I voted acceptable.

[Bucky]

115. I understand the sarcasm, but no death is worth gloating over

It may be the job of the Iraqis to fight off foreign invaders. It's not my job to gloat when they do so barbaricly. It's my job to change my country's stupid policy, but mutilating bodies is never okay--not when they do it, not when our bombers do it.

[Lefergus70]

116. Who's gloating?

I don't see any gloating on this thread.

[Bucky]

118. From the original post in the thread, these were the "gloats"

Locke offered these as hypothetical responses to American losses in Iraq:

• "You reap what you sow"


• "Payback is a bitch"


• "Karma is great, eh?"

I don't know of anyone on DU actually gloating, but the examples at the start of the conversation were certainly in that vein.

Oh, and welcome to DU, Lefergus. Rest assured no one here will hold a French sounding name against you.

[JohnLocke]

119. Kick

We have a good flame war going. :D

[jsw_81]

120. All unacceptable

The incident was a tragedy, not something that should be joked about or exploited for political gain (e.g. "They were probably Republicans and deserved it.")

[FearandLoathing41]

121. Seven more American Soldiers killed in Baghdad as I type this!!!

So yes, I vote that such statements are acceptable, in that they, shed more light on the dirty little deals made with Blackwater Training Inc.

Do you realize, that little shooting range is making 3 times the total homeland defense bugdget alotted to my ENTIRE STATE!!!

BlackWater needs to be investigated by a Congressional Budget Commitee.

Blackwater's sort of like ENRON with guns.