Help! I need help I tell ya! Freepers are attacking!

[Indiana_Dem]

I'm not so good at arguing points as I'm not an arguer/debator. We have this anonymous column in my local newspaper where people can spout off about anything they wish. I responded (anonymously) to a comment that was sent in about how Clinton was the worst president ever and if Kerry gets in, he will be the worst president ever and make us wish Bush was back in office and how we would think Bush was the greatest president ever. I said we would know how much the world hates Bush if everyone tapped into something other than the mainstream media and how the world protested against him MArch 20th. Here are the responses I got:

"I read with great humor the "You Said It" claiming that maintream American television loves Bush. For their information, CBS and CNN dominate TV in this country and they certainly aren't pro-Bush. You either have to watch Fox news or wait until 10pm to see Joe Scarborough to even find a conservative opinion."

"To the reader who thinks the mainstream media is pro-Bush, what planet are you on? You need to go no further than opinion page of this newspaper to see how badly the liberal columnists outnumber the conservatives"

"WHat's the worst president? I won't use the person's name. I'll just list his qualifications. He turned the Lincoln bedroom into a Motel 6; he sold nuclear secrets to North Korea and said terrorism was not a priority of his administration; he was accused of rape and had sex in the Oval Office; said he didn't inhale or remember getting his draft notice. He perjered himself before a grand jury and became the first president to be impeached."

"Former terrorism Czar Richard Clarke is now trying to sell his new book by saying President Bush ignored terrorism before 9-11. Let's look at Mr. Clarke's record during the Clinton administration. The U.S. embassy in East Africa was bombed, the U.S.S. Cole was bombed, the Federal Building in Oklahoma was bombed, the World Trade Center was bombed for the first time, and then there was an assassination attempt on the first President Bush."

on edit: i removed addy in case freeps might want to use it, too

Honestly, the fight goes on and on in this column. This a is a Repuke town in Indiana, so you know what I'm up against....

or you can just help me rebutt the attacks and I will send them!!! Thanks ahead of time!

[snappydresser]

1. You should send a variation of the Bartcop Challenge...

CBS's Bernard Goldberg has written an expose on the liberal media entitled
Bias: A CBS Insider Exposes How the Media Distort the News
This is a good example of smart writing and even better marketing.
If Goldberg had written the truth, that the media is nothing but right-wing pimps working for Bush,
if would sell about as many copies as Fortunate Son and be withdrawn from book stores right away.

But since he's selling the LIE that left-wingers control the media,
something very different will happen to Mr. Goldberg and his book.


He'll get to go on:

The Rush Limbaugh show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Bill O'Reilly show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Sean Hannity show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Eva Von Zahn show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Belway Boys where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Brit Hume show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Tony Snow show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Juan Williams show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Mara Liason show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The McLaughlin Group where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Chris the Screamer show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The G. Gordon Liddy show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Laura Schlessinger show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Michael Medved show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Sam & Cokie show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
Meet the Press with Tim Russert where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The John Hockenberry show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Ollie North show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Neil Bortz show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Robert Novak show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Paul Weyrich show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Brian Williams show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Wolf Blitzer show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The Don Imus show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
The John Stossel show where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.
Reliable Sources with Howie Kurtz where they'll say conservatives have no voice in the media.

Then,

David Horowitz will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Maureen Dowd will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Ann Coulter will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Laura Ingraham will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Peggy Noonan will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
William Safire will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Andrew (bareback) Sullivan will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
David Limbaugh will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Jonah Goldberg will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Mona Charen will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Linda Chavez will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
John Fund will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Paul Greenburg will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Jeff Jacoby will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Dick Morris will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Thomas Sowell will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Cal Thomas will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Walter Williams will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Mort Zuckerman will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Brent Bozell will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
William F Buckley will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Neil Cavuto will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
David Hackworth will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Charles Krauthammer will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
William Raspberry will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Phyllis Schlafly will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
George Will will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Matt Drudge will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Luci (The Bat) Goldberg will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Michael Barone will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Lawrence Kudlow will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Marlin Fitzwater will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Pat Buchanan will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Ari Fleisher will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Christopher Hitchens will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Rich Lowry will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.
Kate O'Beirne will write a column saying conservatives have no voice in the media.


Isn't it a shame that the radical right-wing has no way to get their message out?

...and Mr. Goldberg?
He's going to make millions selling red meat to the dittoheads

[linazelle]

9. Awesome response....it's being bookmarked n/t

[liberalhistorian]

10. I am, too, that

was FANTASTIC! Nice to see the newbies jumping right in on the fun, welcome to DU, snappydresser!

[Pax Argent]

16. Most excellent response!

I started my exploration into politics with Bartcop. His site consistently rocks, as does Bart himself.

[oxymoron]

2. Check your email.

:hi:

[Indiana_Dem]

7. I checked my email and there's nothing new yet.

I'll look in a little bit!

[snappydresser]

3. Also, don't forget the fact that if Clinton had done a FRACTION of what...

...Chimp-Boy has done ON CAMERA, he'd have been impeached, arrested, tried, convicted and executed by a firing squad made up of the righteous, America-defining PNAC "hard core" by now.

[MinnFats]

4. Will do. By the way...

...Does this newspaper feel ANY obligation to keep outright falsehoods out of its pages?

Outrageous disregard for the truth in an editorial, commentary or letter to the editor can produce a libel lawsuit just as easily as a news story that shows reckless disregard....

course, with public figures its much harder....

does this kind of shit always turn up in this paper?

[Indiana_Dem]

6. It's an anonymous comment column so I don't know.

[camero]

5. Send him this back

19 things you have to believe to be a Republican:

1. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

3. "Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

4. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

5. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

7. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

8. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

9. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

10. HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.

11. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

12. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

13. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

14. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

15. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

16. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

17. You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

18. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

19. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Not mine it's CL's but I have it bookmarked.

[Indiana_Dem]

12. Hey these are excellent little tidbits I can slice into

the daily column one at a time!! (I can only do 75 words or less)

[camero]

13. Drip Drip Drip

That's why I thought you might want to use it. :)

[Cronus Protagonist]

20. You might be a republican if....

http://cronus.com/quiz

# ...you believe Bush’s tax cuts, a larger government, spending billions of dollars in wars and nation building have nothing to do with the deficit

# ...you believe that lying about sex is impeachable, but it is a fine thing to lie about the reasons American boys and girls are dying and being dismembered in an illegal war

# ...you believe spending money to build schools in America is a waste, but you support spending money to build schools in Iraq and Afghanistan

# ...you believe spending $40 billion a year for the Department of Education is too much, but spending $87 billion to rebuild the country we just spent billions of dollars bombing is good foreign policy

# ...you believe it’s patriotic and supportive of the military that Bush loves sending our troops into wars, and simultaneously cuts veteran’s benefits, military hazard pay and military family services.

# ...you believe raising the minimum wage to give more money to the working poor will cause inflation, but giving billions of dollars to the richest 5% of Americans will boost the economy

# ...you support the rights of a fetus, but if a baby is born to a poor person, you don’t believe the mother or the baby has the right to food, shelter or financial support

# ...you call anyone with opinions to the left of George W. Bush a "communist"

# ...you call yourself a “patriotic American,” but yet you display confederate flags to honor the people who rebelled against the USA

more...

http://cronus.com/quiz

[louis-t]

21. Sad thing is......

you've only scratched the surface with these.

B*sh is a hero for condemning assassination of Hamas leader Yassin,but
Clinton is evil for NOT killing Osama.

If we teach children about guns, they will NOT use them, but if we teach children about condoms, they WILL use them.

Clinton losing 30 thousand on a failed Real Estate venture demands $70mil investigation, Haliburton overcharging nearly $100 mil (so far) for inferior products and service to our soldiers doesn't.

Just a few.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

27. Correction

The world has condemned Sharon's assassination of the quadriplegic ex-leader of Hamas, and Bush has opposed the condemnation. Bush and Sharon are two peas in a pod.

[grasswire]

8. ask why...

.....if the press is so liberal, why have conservatives three times stopped the Fairness Doctrine from becoming law? Wouldn't you think that the GOP would want to force these "liberal" networks to give them equal time?

[Cat Atomic]

11. An excellent point. I've yet to see any conservative response to it.

[RedSock]

14. august 2001

as the terror threats hit their peak ... the chimp took one of the longest presidential vacation in history. so did his veep.

(it wasn't the longest, but i don't think it missed by more than a few days; before 9/11, * had spent a greater percentage of his time in ofice on vacation than any other president. that is a fact!)

[kaitykaity]

15. So many untruths, so little time.

You might want to use this.

"The trouble with conservatives is that they think if something is not conservative, it is automatically liberal. They set up the Federalist Society to counter the American Bar Association (ABA), which they said was liberal. The only trouble was the ABA didn't know it was liberal."

I got this from a columnist in the Palm Beach Post, but I can't find the article.

[Indiana_Dem]

19. Thank you--I've bookmarked this page for further use.

[mouse7]

17. Outline, Outline, Outline :-) (tips)

Outlines are a great for dealing with political opponents and their arguments.

First, break down whatever form of communication the freeper has used into main points, then place the reasoning they use (however lame) for each point underneath

Then create your own outline of the response you'd like to make. List supporting reasoning under each main point to which you are responding, as well as any additional item you want to bring up. try not to say anything that isn't backed by evidence. (For example, "What planet are you on?" isn't a statement that can be backed by evidence. Maybe something from the FAIR website might be a better substitute.)

Try not to use non-specific terminology (like, for example, best and worst... it's something that can't be proven or disproven) Use facts with solid data instead (More jobs lost by Bush than any president since Hoover in The Great Depression, 10% of large Nader contribution come from those who have made large contribution to GOP candidates, etc.)

Use the outline to get your facts exactly how you want them, then you can focus on your writing while creating your response.

[Indiana_Dem]

18. Thanks for the tips!

[neebob]

22. What's the point of arguing

with someone who thinks Bill Clinton was the first president to be impeached?

[louis-t]

23. yeah, I was gettin' to that.....

Ohhhh, it was Bob Boudelang that wrote that letter!

[Skittles]

24. compare the Condit/Scarborough coverage

re: dead young ladies

[LeftwingPitbull]

25. Let me be blunt.

It is very important in staking a political view to first be very informed about why you believe a certain thing, and why that certain thing is as close to relative truth as possible. These truths based on reason and sound reading of source material. We will help you here, in the spirit of cooperation, finding your own words should not be that. The elites in the corporate society try to make it seem hard, that the facts must be left up to so-called 'experts', but being well read and up to date on what's going on is a good start.

Read lots of Noam Chomsky, preferably his interviews, for his sound views on foreign policy and corporate crime.

These magazines should be on your mailing list:

The Nation, Progressive, In These Times, Z Magazine, Extra, Ad busters, Multi-national Monitor, Mother Jones, Harpers.

A reading list of these authors will help:

Gore Vidal, Edward Said, Greg Palast, Arundahti Roy, Howard Zinn, Chalmers Johnson, Jim Hightower, Molly Ivins.

There are many web sites to help. But do not do the Ann Coulter thing: Check the facts first.

You will have an arsenal to use anytime the other side comes at ya. Now onto your points:

Liberal Media Bias. First, the term 'bias' is an odd term. Are they saying that bias means refusal to accept certain facts, even if those facts are proven wrong? Bias means someone is lying to promote an agenda. If you believe something is true, based on logic and evidence then it is not a bias, it is a fact. They think it is a bias, because they use that term to shut you up and make the news media dumb down, and in the end, become more conservative, or give into mindless pop trends.

If media is liberal, then why are they afraid to define the term, "liberal?" They use that term as a slur, because they know that the term has been demonized by the right; and actual liberal ideas are rarely presented, to give people a sound reason to study those ideas for themselves.

Tell them liberal means, fairness and justice for all people--Gay, Straight, three eyed, leatherboy et al. Civil society for all. Freedom of speech and thought. Pro-choice. Military as last resort, only when other options fail; not bomb innocent civilians, just to fulfill some oil contract, or the promotion of empire.

I'm sure I've said too much already...lol. Peace.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

26. LEMME' AT EM!!! LEMME' AT EM!!!

About the "liberal" media:

You say the media is liberal, as if the media were a political party. The media is not a political party, it's a handful of multi-billion dollar corporations with board members and stock holders. And why would it be in the interest of multi-billion dollar corporations and their stock holders to go against the most pro-corporate, pro-billionaire, administration, since Herbert Hoover? The fact is, it's *not* in their interest at all. The degree to which they reveal any information which does not support their self interested corporate agenda is only the degree to which they are forced by by necessity to appear "fair and balanced". I'm sorry if you are so intolerant of even the most tepid, centrist, liberalism, that you feel you must lash out in defense. But, the truth is, if the corporate media was truly, liberal, there would be 560 mothers, father, sons, and daughters, who would not have gone to their deaths believing they were protecting us from "weapons of mass destruction", and a further 10,000 would not be robbed of arms, legs, eyes, and more importantly, peace of mind. If the media were truly liberal, Condoleeza Rice would not be able to show her miserable face on TV without being asked the simple and obvious question, "if what you are saying is true, then why are you afraid to say it under oath?". If the media were truly liberal, we would all know that Bush's reckless policy of dollar devaluation is putting pressure on OPEC to raise oil prices, and that and that this has put the world economy in grave danger. If the media were truly liberal, we would all know that the Patriot act does little to curb terrorism, and much more to curb democracy. If the media were truly liberal, those who's responsibility it is to protect this nation's citizens would be held fully accountable for the fiery deaths of 3,000 people, and not enjoying raises and promotions paid for by us. If the media were truly liberal, it would be pressing the Pentagon to tell us how one trillion dollars can be, "unaccounted for". If the media were truly liberal, "outsourcing" would not be an "economic inevitability. Finally, if the media were truly liberal, no one would be able to take anything you've written here seriously.

Hope that helps.