Does the Bush administraton have a secret Fascism plan?

[the_real_38]

How seriously do you think they've thought the problem out? I mean, there's a lot to consider - the reaction of the financial markets, for one thing.

Do you think that "Shadow Government" after 9/11 was a trial run? How would they pull it off and what do you think it would be like?

[Berserker]

1. secret Fascism ?

I no longer think it's a secret

[mouse7]

19. Really. What's "secret" about it?

It seems pretty blatant to me.

[radwriter0555]

35. NOTHING Secret about http://www.newamericancentury.org

now is there...

it's all right out in the open....

[Trajan]

2. One fascinating point ...

The "Shadow Government" had no provision for congressional participation ....

Wasnt there also some kind of 'concentration camp' thingy too ? ..

REX 81 ? ... something like that .....

[gmoney]

3. No...

Their fascism plan is pretty much out in the open. Turn the economy over to corporations, and martial law for all. Markets hate unpredictability, and a nice dictatorship will provide plenty of financial security, and probably mandated consumption. (You MUST buy $300 worth of high-fructose foodstuffs per month.)

Just like animals are being bred to produce more food more efficiently, we're being bred and conditioned to consume more while owning less.

[Trajan]

4. Also: google 'Smedley Butler FDR DuPont', and see what comes up ...

More fascinating stuff, Im sure ...

[Trajan]

6. Wow .. I did, and this is one thing I found ...

The Attempted Coup Against FDR
By Barbara LaMonica

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr399-fdr.html

The stock market crash of 1929 and the ensuing Great Depression dramatically thrust the question of government’s role to the forefront of American political and corporate life. The election of Franklin Delano Roosevelt represented a revolutionary realignment of political power: the ascendancy of the Democratic party facilitated by new voting coalitions of rural south and industrialized north which dislodged the Republican Party’s nearly seventy-year dominance, signaling the abandonment of laissez-faire economics in favor of state regulation. The losers in this political process coalesced into right-wing Republicanism, and the next sixty years of American history is, in part, the story of their attempt to regain power, reinstitute Lassiez-faire policies, and dismantle the New Deal.1 I would like to suggest that the forces behind the assassination of President Kennedy were born in the furies which the Great Depression unleashed between these competing sectors of American political and economic life.

I believe that in 1934 there was a foreshadowing of the JFK assassination. A conspiracy was uncovered in which right-wing elements of big business, namely the DuPont family and the Morgan banking interests, planned to finance and arm a veteran’s army to march on the White House and hold President Roosevelt captive.2 The conspiracy was reported by two- time Congressional Medal of Honor winner Marine Corps Major General Smedley Darlington Butler. Although the House Committee to Investigate Un-American Activities found his allegations credible, it failed to call major conspirators to testify, and the Committee deleted crucial testimony from its final report to the public. The press relegated the story to the back pages, and discredited those, including Major Butler, who tried to alert the public to the threat against republican government. No prosecutions were forthcoming from the Justice Department, in part because the main witness who would have substantiated Butler’s claims died suddenly from pneumonia at the age of 37. In short, there was a cover-up, maybe worse.

-snip-

Ah ... what was that about History repeating for those who ignore it ? ..... This seems great article, btw ...

[The Traveler]

5. I'm not the paranoid type

But these guys may well be out to get us all. My Dad used to say, "If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, its probably a fuckin' duck." Applying this method of analysis to Shrub and his goon squad leads one to suspect he's gonna show up in a brown shirt and jackboots any day now.

I wonder ... will there be another terrorist hit just before the election? And will that be used to try to "postpone" the election? I dunno ... but I have read their "philospher" (Leo Strauss) ... and these guys make me nervous.

[the_real_38]

7. Because of the relative stability of the American lifestyle...

... we refuse to believe that anything dire can happen here. But I reckon that's what people have thought throughout history a couple of years before their societies went haywire.

[HawkerHurricane]

15. "It can't happen here"

By Sinclair Lewis

Read it.

[kissmeimcajun]

8. Come on now

Now look, I may be too naive, but ya'll are giving (yes, I did say use the term ya'll) the Bush people way too much credit. Come on now, they can't pull off Hitler type stuff. As ignorant as Bush is, you want me to believe that he has this sophisticated plan? I think Kerry's camp will do great at exposing Bush for what he is....some dumb ass trying to come off as a smart, middle class American.

[Trajan]

9. Read above post about Smedley Butler ...

This REAL attempt to overthrow the US government was propagated by CORPORATE generalissimos, NOT Herbert Hoover ....

[kissmeimcajun]

12. But

But...how can all these people, at least 100's...be able to keep all this secret, with the threats of blackmail and all? Obviously Bush is a f*ck up...but he is NOT this sophisticated!! The guy and his people are freakin' idiots!! I don't think we are using logic here. You're actaully giving this guy way more credit than he deserves.

[Trajan]

14. Methinks you are short circuiting ...

YOU give too much 'credit' to ignorance in the negative ... Ignorance can have positive results as well ...

Bush doesnt need to 'control' such an act, he only needs to benefit from it ....

Him and his friends .....

[demodewd]

26. Bingo

You're dead on. :kick:

[TiredTexan]

16. You are confusing apples with oranges.

The portrait of this presidency reveals two recurring themes that appear in every aspect of its governance. First, the administration charts its own course without consulting anyone other than its own ideologues and experts. This results in the concerns of the people, other countries, other experts, and even scientists, being ignored in favor of the party line. While this strategy gives the appearance – initially - of a government that is strong and unified, it often results in foolish and rash decisions that were made imprudently by the wrong people at the wrong time without the necessary information. In world transactions, the U.S. looks arrogant, isolationist and threatening. On the environment, it looks just plain silly because the administration creates its own science, as if by presidential fiat Bush could change the laws of nature. On the economy, ignoring the experts leads to more unemployment and a deteriorating economy with no hope in sight. Ignoring the experts in Iraq led to chaos and quagmire, and the death of many soldiers and innocent Iraqis.

The second major characteristic of the Bush administration is its lack of cohesive and principled policy. Examples abound of this trait. Bush claims to stand for education and cuts spending on education. He claims to support reduction in greenhouse gases, and sneaks through regulations loosening restrictions on emissions. He stands on a mound of debris from the twin towers and promises support for our firefighters and police, and then cuts federal funds supporting them. He heaps praise on our armed forces while significantly cutting their benefits. He claims to support women’s rights in Afghanistan, but leaves them to be tortured and abused in an unprotected, anarchic country after our invasion. To many, the result seems almost schizophrenic – a constant and moving target of promises that never materialize – almost an administrative attention deficit disorder. This is the administration you are referring to when you talk about their incompetence.

But after digesting literally thousands of pages of materials, it became clear to me that contrary to appearances, this is the most focused administration ever in office. In truth, this administration never takes its eye off the ball. Ever. Bush’s GOP is simply watching a very different ball from the one you and I are watching. Its constant, never wavering, always vigilant attention is on the ball of power, of control, not on education or taxes or firefighters or policy. Everything it does is scripted to maintain control and power, from raising profits for its friends, to cutting taxes for its friends, to appointing its friends to government positions, to forcing K-Street lobbying firms to hire only its friends, to awarding its friends with judicial posts, to making sure its friends receive government contracts, to secretly proposing policies on women and human rights that would make 90% of Americans cringe but pacify its friends on the religious right. It is equally as vigilant about punishing its enemies. Karl Rove, Tom DeLay and other enforcers make the lives of opponents miserable on the political front. White House invitations are used to snub and reward. Media sources and reporters that do not print what the Whitehouse wants to hear are ostracized, ridiculed and shunned. Redistricting is forced on states, recalls of governors are implemented.

In the end, the picture presented is not a pretty one. If Bush is elected (I don't use re-elected advisedly)we can expect a lifetime of loud politicians, muffled dissent, hidden agendas, perpetual wars and endless defeats.

You are comparing his policy/decision making apparatus with his political machine. They are apples and oranges.

The political machine is very competent, and very capable of implementation of fascism, one bill at a time.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

18. here! here!

I couldn't have said it better myself. When you look at the big picture, the real incompetence is with the American people.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

22. Pay attention

Just because you are ignoring the people that speak out doesn't mean they don't exist. Of course you can't keep something this big from leaking. Clarke spoke out, FBI agent Rawly spoke out,
FBI translator, Sibel Edmonds, spoke out (accusing John Ashcroft of attempted blackmail, no less), and that's just off the top of my head.
You see, leaks are a part of any covert operation, whether it's something as necessary as a foreign intelligence gathering operation, or something as sinister as allowing a terrorist event on your own nation. It would be quite naive to believe that those involved did not have a plan for dealing with leaks. And, up until Clarke, they were dealing with them quite effectively by casting doubt on the character of the leakers, releasing their names (thus destroying their undercover careers), letting the corporate media cast them into the memory hole,
and leaving the rest of the job up to peer pressure from a conspira-phobic public.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. My Dad fought against the Nazis in WWII...

...and he has told me at least once that the evil he fought against during that war has taken control of the U. S. He's not the only WWII vet to feel that way.

Let's take a look at what NeoCons have alrady put in place, shall we?

-Patriot Act I
-Patriot Act II
-Naked aggression toward other countries to include two wars being fought under dubious/false evidence
-Homeland Security structure that reminds me very much of the structure of the Nazi SS organization
-Control of the press
-Control of Congress
-Control of the Judiciary
-Control of the military
-Backing of the major conservative businesses in America

Need I go on?

[Beam Me Up]

13. We don't think of *Bush as a sock puppet for nothing.

Whose hands make him dance and sing?

Answer riddle in a way that can be believed and you'll have a revolution.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. Oh!

I think they have been quite up front about their fascist ideas. I really don't think they are a secret at all.

[TiredTexan]

17. kick n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

20. A suggestion:

Click on

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

and read.

[seemslikeadream]

21. It's time for another Bush/Nazis thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=199853

[Kool Kitty]

23. Doesn't seem like it's much of a secret.

[Karenina]

24. They even issued a position paper

Hmmm...what was that called again... "Project for a New American Century" complete with sirens, klaxons and signatures, eh?

[Disturbed]

25. GW Puppet

GW Bush is of average intelligence and he has problems speaking off the cuff yet he is the perfect front man for The Bush Crime Syndicate/PNAC. The people behind this puppet may not be intellectuals but they are clever. They demand blind loyalty and try to destroy anyone that doesn't tow the party line. Underestimating these people is a huge mistake.

[mmonk]

27. Sorry but Pinky and the Brain

haven't been silent about it. But instead of calling what's going on a war for American hegemony and conquest, they call it the war on terrorism. The PNAC basically publishes its plans for the world to see. They just obscure it by the choice of words. And that is essentially what the Clarke testimony is designed to show. There's not a concern over terrorism as much as there is a plan that was put in place by the admin. regardless of terrorism.

[Triana]

28. It has a Fascism Plan - Secret? Nope...

hardly. Why keep it a secret when such pliable, gullible, complacent Public just goes along with whatever it does without question?

[dusty64]

29. They've already said

a massive "terrorist" strike against the US would bring marital law. I put NOTHING past our junta.

[opihimoimoi]

30. If it happened in Argentina/Germany/etc where elections were comped

it can happen here. Looky our selection of 2000

[John_Shadows_1]

31. The Shadow Government was a test project...

... I'm sure of that - not only to see how to actually administer a fascist state, but as a test of how the public would react to it under the right circumstances (9/11 then - how knows what next?). Since Nixon, there's been a special "dissident list" of people who need to be detained if martial law is imposed.

But you're right about the financial markets - how would they maintain an economy that relies so much on the lnflux of foreign capital into a traditionally stable environment. I don't think you could pull it off.

[Q]

32. Some of you are talking as if the 'shadow government'...

...is a thing of the past. It's very much still in full operation...working outside of the Constitution.

- And Bush* is indeed a 'front man'. Banana Republics love this type of person because they're easily steered in the right direction in exchange for cash and figurehead status. Bush* loves to ACT like he's in charge...but he knew to sit there in the school room and not ask questions as America was attacked on 9-11.

- The Bush* gang has been VERY successful at branding any information and evidence that could incriminate them as 'conspiracy theories'. Hell...many DUers do the same thing.

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

33. It's no secret

the hide n lie group is fascist from the bottom up

[AP]

34. With the media on their side, and money determining who wins elections,

who needs a secret governemtn.

The CA recall was an excellent example of how the RW can control America without needing a secret government.