Price Gouging in Health Care

[Solon]

I didn't know this, saw it on Headline News a few minutes ago. Apparently if you are uninsured, then you pay up to 3 times as much to hospitals as either Medicare or Insurance Companies. WTF!? They showed the example of Appendicitis Costs

Medicare Insurance Company Uninsured
~$10,000 ~$12,000 ~$29,000

WTF?! WTF?!

[burythehatchet]

1. Can't verify the numbers but that situation

is quite accurate.

Its called cost shifting. Its another way the uninsured get screwed. The managed care companies collect premiums from their members. The incentive for the is to then pay as little as possible for care. The care providers are in a poor negotiating position. So what they do is buckle to the managed care companies. However, their lifestyle is something they're going to protect. So in order to do thatthey shift the amount they lose with the managed care company, to whomever they can, in this case the uninsured because they have zero leverage.

What a system.

Universal Health Care is the ONLY answer. Go Dennis

[onecitizen]

2. Absolutely correct!!!

It's crazy isn't it? People who have insurance get the lowest rates. Yet those poor folks who cannot afford insurance, get their costs OVERLY inflated. Kind of like interest rates on credit cards, home mortgages and the like. Poor people get soaked(and pay the highest interest rates) because they are poor! This country is crazy. And hospitals go after these people now till they get their money. It's not like in the old days and you couldn't pay the bill they'd write you off. No more!

[0007]

3. Many doctors are ripping the government off

One Indian doctor by of the name of Depak Patel in Midland Texas just got busted for Medicare fraud of million of dollars before being exposed.

He fled the country after posting a one million dollar bail. Even left his wife which live about two miles from 0007.

[amazona]

4. you pay closer to 9-10 times in my area

Check your "this is not a bill" statement and see what your HMO is paying your doctor. It's $6.43 (I'm serious!) for a quick check-up with my ob/gyn. If I was paying, it would be $60.

A lab claimed that it had not been paid by our insurance company. They said we owed $800. We reported them to the state insurance commissioner after a year of being threatened and dunned. We learned that the insurance company had paid the bill in full -- and that it was $55!!!!! I guess the lab was not happy with its contract and thought it would engage in a little double billing. But think about it, if our claim had really been denied, they would have charged us $800 for something they can bill someone else for only $55 and still turn a profit.

A woman in our area recently went to court over this issue. She was billed $27,000 for a procedure as an uninsured patient. She provided testimony that insurance companies only paid $3,000 for the same procedure. The court ruled that she still had to pay. It is perfectly legal for the hospitals to force the un-insured poor and middle class to subsidize those who can afford insurance! It's madness. The woman will lose her home, and nobody will be benefited except some out-of-state CEO.

Whenever you hear someone say, that the un-insured are a drain on our health care system, that person is either completely mis-informed or they are lying for some reason (they are a hospital administrator who profits from the lies). The un-insured are the ones subsidizing the insured. It's scary but that's the way it is.

[QC]

5. Here's my experience with it.

Last spring I went to the emergency room because I was in agonizing pain. My insurance had run out a few months before and I was barely getting by on unemployment.

They gave me a cat scan, an x-ray, two pain shots, and some labwork, told me I had kidney stones, and sent me a bill for $4500.

There was no way I could pay that, so I had no choice but to leave no forwarding address or phone number when I moved. They haven't found me yet, but it's only a matter of time.

The urologist I saw later said that if I had been insured, the bill would have been only a quarter of that. And, he also told me that if I were to get the surgery I needed without insurance, the hospital would bill me app. $10k, even though the maximum Blue Cross will pay for the procedure is $2800.

I hate these bloodsuckers.

[SoCalDem]

6. Uninsured have three choices

1..Stay sick/hurt until they die
2..Give false name and hope they don't ever find you
3..Declare bankruptcy and don't pay

[Kali]

8. its a mortal sin to be poor

Our culture does not know what to do with people who are not chasing the dollar with all their energy. If you don't participate in the frenzy they will persecute you. This is just one example. Great book called Beyond Civilization by Daniel Quinn. His writing stimulates a lot of off the wall back-to-primitive-ways types but in fact that is not what he advocates at all.

[LynzM]

7. 100% True

My husband just had surgery. The bill for just the surgery (not the anesthesia, etc.) was just over $12,000. The insurance company paid $951 and we didn't have to pay anything. How does that work!?

We were uninsured for 7 months, and it was pretty scary. I'm diabetic, and it's a LOT out of pocket. It's still a lot after insurance, too, especially when they charge more for one type of insulin than another, and I get better control with (go figure) the more expensive one. Ugh. Better health, or save money?

On another note, it's always worth bugging your insurance co. They covered 100% on the surgery and only 70% on the anesthesia! Not like you're going to have the surgery while you're awake, is it? So I asked the dr's office. Turned out the anesthesiologist was out-of-network so they charged us more, but we didn't have a choice. Had the office call my insurance, and they will re-bill at the in-network rate! :bounce: Always worth asking!

[donsu]

9. US health care is going to crash

as soon as the criminal bushgang finish sucking up all the/our money.

which is soon, like 7 mo.

[undergroundpanther]

11. Mortal sin to be poor?

Why isn't it a mortal sin to be RICH and greedy for MORE? and gouge the poor to get more than what you deserve at the expense of everyone?

When did greed lose it's sin status in our society? When did cheating people become a business virtue? When did selfishness become a virtue? When did lying become normal facts? When did arrogance,elitism,and narcissism replace self esteem?
When did this overweening,driving,aggressive ambition and workaholics become a good thing for people to have? When did hubris become so fashionable and arrogance such a social norm? When did it become socially acceptable to be a bully and be dishonest and pushy? When did it become proper manners to scapegoat the weak,disabled,poor, or just hate people different than you are ?

[SoCalDem]

12. TV/Movies show everyone what it's like to be rich

Everyone "thinks" that they can be rich...someday..

No one wants to admit that they are poor..

Every town in the country has poor people..always has..but

years ago, poor people were concentrated in one area of town ..remember the "wrong side of the tracks"??

They had their own little markets and stores..schools & churches.. It were like a small town unto itself.. Classes did not mingle..

Television/malls/integration changed everything..

In the 60's, lots of people still did not have tv..most only had one car, so when Dad went to work, Mom & the kids stayed at home in their own neighborhood.. When everyone you know lives the way you do, you don't notice poverty so much..

When poor kids go to school with rich ones..and when people go to malls where there is every luxury you could ever want and when you see all the goodies on tv, it's human nature to want them..

Enter ...easy credit.... Just another trap to keep people poor..

[Abaques]

10. Universal coverage is the only answer...

But unfortunetly we won't be able to see it for a few more years at least... :(

[davsand]

13. Illinois has been looking at it,

Aggressive collections and predatory billing--it sounds like a loan shark--doesn't it? Well, it is actually the health care industry they are talking about in the Illinois Senate. Our Lt. Gov spoke on it recently in hearings, along with several folks I know. There ARE people working to change this system.

http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID=14&RecNum=2324

Lucette Lagnado at the Wall Street journal just did an excellent article on this issue, you can see it here:

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/weekly_2003/uninsured_pay_most.html

Be sure and read her columns whenever you get the chance. She is an amazing woman and has done a lot to try and make people aware of the problems in our health care industry.

Hospitals frequently carry a 501(C)3 designation (Non profit) from the IRS. This is a holdover from the days when a hospital was a place that you went to in times of need, not out of desperation. They were, in fact, places of healing.

Many still carry that designation, in spite of the fact that they are run as for profit entities. They contract with physician's groups and other groups to provide services IN THOSE facilities that are not only for profit entities, but some are even traded on the NYSE (Marriott/Sodexho provides food services to many institutions to cite one example.)

Those IRS laws need to be changed. Hospitals are for profit all the way--and this tax break means WE are footing the bill for these guys.

Additionally, I want to point out to all of you that it IS possible to fight this system--and do it locally.

Hospitals (many of them) get local property tax exemptions. They get huge tax breaks on millions of dollars in property--and the rest of the tax payers foot the bill for it. (Remember, if someone doesn't pay to support government services the rest of us pick up their share along with our own.)

Those local property tax exemptions are not an automatic thing, and they are usually determined by a local or state level board. YOU can work with those boards and educate them about what a hospital should be doing locally--and HOW they treat the tax payers in that area. You may even find yourself on one of those boards--it happened to me.

We challenged a local hospital and have (Thus far) been upheld by the state in stripping that hospital of its property tax exemption. Currently, they owe over one million in local taxes, and the court challenges are underway.

One aspect of all this has been that the hospital has now begun to openly advertise the charity work they do, and the fact that they offer free care in some cases or reduced cost care for other folks in need. They have backed off on the horrible collection practices they used to use.

http://www.healthbusinessandpolicy.com/TAXChallenge.htm

And yes, I am one of the folks interviewed there.

You can act. YOU can impact on this. GET involved NOW!

Laura