9.11 investigation - thread 2

[robbedvoter]

Thread 1 was here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1277742&mesg_id=1277742

[Goldom]

1. tenet mispronounced "enemies"

hehehe...

[robbedvoter]

2. Clarke question - entrenched culture against covert operations,

assasination - do you share this opinion? No.

[robbedvoter]

3. Is Clarke right that 2 senior members resigned? "No. Dunno"

[robbedvoter]

4. More staff members will read parts of Natl policy coordination

Pacifica has comentary - Gail Sheedy
want to isolate themselves from the years when they were training the muhajedin - before the 90s.
gail Sheedy is saying - they contradicted themselves - when asked - why didn't you keep them under observation? Thenet said: we just finished with the Russians and went home.

Sandy Berger will follow.

[Goldom]

5. official thread 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1278149

[Paradise]

6. WOW, george tenet says

"uh, uh, umm, er, uh, umm"

[BonFiyah]

16. What is he?

Is he Repub or Dem?

[Paradise]

23. forgive me for what may sound like a wisearss answer, but

what tenet is is 'beholden to bush' for his job, and he's covering his arss! that's a really good question, bonfiyah, and sorry to say i'm not sure. he was, you may already know, cia director under clinton, as well.

[BonFiyah]

32. So what can be assumed

Is that he is just doing what he feels is necessary in order to keep his job. So he is nothing more than the village idiot, a damn lackey.

[leftofthedial]

29. he's a bureaucrat

period.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Was Condi in the loop, or not?

Tenet looked like a fish with a hook in his mouth when one of the Senators pulled out a letter stating that the CIA instigated the report which Condi (or everyone that speaks for Condi) uses as proof that she was involved in the process.

Does anybody have any observations on this?

[WilliamPitt]

8. What time does Clarke come on?

[ewagner]

9. 1:30 EST n/t

[Vadem]

10. I think he is scheduled for 1:30 p.m. n/t

[WilliamPitt]

12. Thanks ewagner and Vadem

Appreciated.

[robbedvoter]

11. After the break, afternoon. Sandy berger after the stuff reading nt

[RainDog]

13. what was the disruption earlier?

(please don't ask me to wait for a million posts to download...I'm on dialup.)

I couldn't understand what they guy was saying.

[Vadem]

14. None of us could understand what he was saying....

We'll hear about it later on CNN, etc., probably.

[Laughing Mirror]

20. A lesson to be learned from this

If you're going to disrupt, make sure you're near a microphone.

He was certainly whisked out quickly.

But he did disrupt when Tenet was speaking, for whatever that's worth.

[Goldom]

15. Marcus' voice keeps cracking...

sounds like he's 14... =\

[spinbaby]

19. I keep thinking he sounds like Mr. Haney

You know, from Green Acres.

[robbedvoter]

17. Lots of Clarke praising now - I think it's Sandy berger written statement

being read colorlessly by some staffer.

[BootinUp]

21. Its the commission staff report I think

:hi:

[fedupwithbush]

18. What is a watch fax?

Clinton and them got it 5 or 6 days a week. Sounds like another Condisleezza cancellation? Too busy planning for Iraq?

Tennet got told he would be questioned later about the discrepancy(isn't that like lying when he's under oath) about the origin of who ordered the pdb for September 6th?

And last night Mathews made a comment about Tenet(? or do I have the person wrong? at breakfast on Sept. 11 and the remark he made when he heard about the planes flying into the WTC about the guys in Florida wanting to fly planes? Do you think Tenet has been asked about that remark?

I'm amazed at all the undertones in this. You can almost see the wheels turning about what they should and shouldn't say. And Kerry can go fly a kite as well as the two repubs. You can just hear the Bush bootlicking going on.

Last, I wish everyone would be told by all the news media that Clarke already testified 21 hours! in private. Wow, maybe we'll read what he said in our lifetime, but probably not.

[Vadem]

22. Yes, it was Tenet that Chris Matthews was speaking about...

and no, Tenet hasn't been asked about that quote, at least in the hearings.

Wow, I didn't realize that "Clarke already testified 21 hours!"

[Lindsey]

24. Hey guys, I just got here (it's only 8:13 in Ca.)

why isn't this on cspan? I'm listening to it on Pacificia. Wasn't it on cspan yesterday?

[0007]

26. Why are they trying to hurry this hearing along?

I noticed Kean was prodding a few of the commissioners and now the reader is skipping material to bring the hearing up to speed. WTF!!

[SoCalDem]

28. The opening statements are supposed to be a certain time length

:)

[proud patriot]

25. Watch Cspan 3 live Streaming Link

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[BootinUp]

30. Im listening on CSPAN3 pretty explosive stuff

Clarke had written to Condi before the August meeting of principles. He lambasted the Bushies from several fronts. Talked about military inaction after Cole.

[SoCalDem]

27. In February 2001, Bush "cancelled" most of Clinton's policies

and planned to put his own into effect, but "never got around to it"..

This whole investigation is getting a bit ridiculous, really.There are two things going on here..

1.Assess blame
2.Find out WHY it happened.

The Bush team had access to daily briefings before January..They actually started in December, after the SCOTUS decision. They cannot claim that they did not know what was going on..

In July of 2001, Condi was blithely going on "speaking engagements"..I have one on tape.. Not much at all was even mentioned about terrorism..but she DID use the term WMD..(Iraq was on the table then)....

Bush never indicated ANY sense of impending danger.. Reviewing filmed footage of the "vacation" in Crawford during the whole MONTH of vacation, shows brush clearing, joshing with reporters, and mundane things like that.. If the nation were in danger, WHY were we not told?? That was not CLINTON's responsibility in AUG 2001..

I really wish that Clinton would just show up at the hearings and say..

"This is BULLSHIT.. These phony-ass weasels are trying to blame ME, for stuff that THEY are responsible for....They were LAZY, DUMB, and only wanted war with Iraq,,and they screwed up... "

[0007]

42. 'Tis quite obvious isn't it, that Bush had access to the knowledge

before 911?

[Vadem]

31. Sandy Berger giving his statement, now... n/t

[BonFiyah]

33. Is it the Job of the commission

to examine why it is NORAD was completely incompetent on 9/11/01.

[underpants]

34. Damn Berger knows what he is talking about

10 ACCOMPLISHMENTS and 3 recommendations.

Oh for the days the adults were in charge.

[underpants]

35. Ben-Veniste is documenting times Berger testified as NSA advisor

NONE of those appearances were as important as these hearings.

[Vadem]

36. He sure laid it out very succinctly--only 67 people lost their

lives to terrorism under the Clinton Admin. so they were doing something right!

[Lindsey]

37. I thought Berger

was very well spoken in his opening statement.

[underpants]

38. Counter terrorism budget went up 350% under Clinton

sighted by Freeh when he left in '01.

[BootinUp]

39. How can anyone

compare Clinton and Bush's record and think Bush was on the job pre 9/11? Preposterous, Outrageous, (insert other).

[underpants]

40. Talking about how they developed predator and used it to....

double check sources on the ground. Mention that as we have watched this war we have seen how unreliable the tribal information can be.

[BootinUp]

41. How's your dinner, oh by the way missiles are flying, heh

US warning Pakistan that cruise missiles launched at Afghanistan.

[jean]

43. "Bouncing the rubble..." Ben-Veniste is obsessed with Rumsfeld's quote

this happened a few minutes ago...but Richard Ben-V repeats Rumsfeld's phrase whenever he can.

Rumsfeld said that bombing Afghanistan amounted to "bombing the rubble..."

Berger said right after that in bombing Afghanistan they were "bouncing bin Ladin into rubble."

Berger also said the Pakistan military was the midwife of the Taliban. He's got a joking tone to his voice at times but really nails the issue if pressed.

[leftchick]

44. has sandy been able to testify about the shelving of their recomendations

by chimpy. Also wtf happened with the Hart Rudman report that they handed off to cheney, have they even testified?

[BootinUp]

45. Berger wasn't there, Clarke and Armitage will get asked

[0007]

46. I've heard nothing so far about the shelving of Clinton's recommendations

I would hope we do, perhaps Clarke will bring it up this afternoon.

[leftchick]

47. wtf? Why the hell is the Lehman shithead...

getting so much time to badger Berger?

[jean]

48. Berger can handle him, let him ask whatever crud he wants

[0007]

50. Yeah, I don't hear Thomas Kean, saying "let move along"

Burger is giving it back to this asshole Lehman.

Kean is now saying their was a disconnect between the Clinton Admin and intel.

[leftchick]

53. yeah right...

that is why they thrwarted so many potential attacks... Kean is so transparent.. :grr:

[0007]

58. Kean did show his bias with Burger

So now it will be transparent which way this will go.

It will be Clinton's fault.

[leftchick]

60. I knew i should not have gotten my hopes up...

it will be a whitewash for sure with the tv bobbleheads cheering it on... :(

[BootinUp]

51. I don't know but Berger is doing fine.

said couldn't go to the world and say I am going to war on Afghanistan based on preliminary judgment or in all honesty Dick Clarkes opinion. Needed CIA final judgment didn't happen on my watch.

[Vadem]

52. I was thinking the same thing--when Kean cuts Ben-Veniste off..

after about 5 minutes. You can tell that the PNACers are running this Commission!

[leftchick]

54. talking about condi liar now....

sandy says he conveyed the sense of urgency about Al qaida. Said it was most important issue.

[Spazito]

49. Berger is taking no crap from this panel member!

Go Sandy! I hope they move on to another panel member real soon, this guy is an asshole, imho.

[mike1963]

55. Telling about Condi briefings...several, "terrorism will be your biggest

problem.."

[leftchick]

56. trying to make a liar out of clarke...

comparing sandy's briefing of condi about al- qaida versus clarke's statement she looked as if she had never heard about al-qaida!

[Spazito]

57. I do find it interesting that everyone is saying they haven't read...

Clarke's book. While I am sure it is "technically" true, there is no way they are not intimately familiar with the contents. Those that support Clarke most likely have read relevant excerpts and the bush cabal the same given that the book was in the hands of the WH for 3 months.

[Oilwellian]

72. Not to mention....

Clarke spoke to the Commission for a total of 21 hours.

[leftchick]

59. bob the bomber kerrey will you please...

Shut Up Shut Up Shut Up!!! What a fucking waste of time listening to his 1998 timewarp crap...

[Fleshdancer]

61. I'm tired of him too. he NEVER has a point...just rambles and acts snotty

eom

[Fleshdancer]

62. bullshit Kerrey! When Clinton tried to go after Taliban, others were....

...claiming "wag the dog"! Fuck you and your lack of long term memory!

[Fleshdancer]

65. and how dare Kerrey suggest that because Clinton was able....

to go after Milosovic (a man in the process of committing GENOCIDE at the time) that he should have been able to go after an allusive group of terrorists when people didn't even believe the terrorists were that big a deal!

[BootinUp]

66. as a lame duck to boot

Its preposterous.

[The_Bearded_Liberal]

63. Yep...

.....he had not one question for George Tenet but here he goes again with Sandy Berger, blaming the Clinton administration for 9/11.

What a schmuck!

With the likes of Bob Kerrey (supposedly) on our side, no wonder we are in the mess we are in today.

[0007]

68. A schmuck is a part of the best part of a man -

This son of a bitch is showing his bias hatred for Clinton. Fuck you Bob Kerrey you fucking asshole!

[Vadem]

64. He is so full of it! Yeah, right, "if you had come to Congress....

and told them, etc..." How many times did Clinton go to Congress for funding and support and what did they do to him??? They shot him down constantly! It is so obvious that Kerrey despises Clinton and his every rant is ABC!

[RoundRockD]

67. Kerrey is nothing more than an egotisical politician.

His grandstanding is quickly getting old. Would he have preferred Clinton bomb anything just to use bombs? This commission is nothing but a farce.

P.S. Why does the head of the commission always interrupt the democratic members of the commission? (except Kerrey, of course)

[Vadem]

69. You've noticed that too, eh?...

"P.S. Why does the head of the commission always interrupt the democratic members of the commission? (except Kerrey, of course)" It is a farce; the questions they are asking are all about pre/911. When are they going to get to what happened on 9/11, when Bush was in charge, NOT Clinton?

[leftchick]

74. Jamie Gorelick said they will address the day of 9/11

later in the investigation. What is frustrating to me is the hijack of the direction of the questions. They are blaming clinton and chimpy is blameless. Sickening!

[Nashyra]

70. Did anyone else hear one of the commission members

reading from a direct report about that infamous PDB briefing on Aug 6th. It made definitive references to "airplanes", I don't remember who read it.

[leftchick]

71. ps.... i think you know the answer to that....

and it must be glaringly obvious to the families sitting there too.

welcome to DU RoundRock :)

[Emboldened Chimp]

73. Kean asks about planes flying into buildings

Berger doesn't recall this being a 'modality' that was more likely than others...

He's covering for Condi!

[BootinUp]

75. Clinton/Berger

share blame with Bush/Condi for the aircraft being hijacked in my judgment. Of course congress and the FAA share as well. No one wanted to spend the money to improve airport/aircraft security. pre 9/11, at least not significantly.

[Emboldened Chimp]

77. so he's covering his own ass as well

upon further reflection, he didn't say that they knew nothing about it; only that it wasn't more important than other terrorist techniques. Basically he's saying they did know; Condi said she had no clue.

BTW, is that Clark's wife on the podium? She's hot!

[BootinUp]

78. She is the unknown

hottie in that pic. ;)

[Bandit]

83. Clinton increased spending on fighting terrorism 350%

How much did Bush* increase it?

[KansDem]

76. Yes! I thought for a "yes" or "no" answer...

...he took a helluva long time to answer.

[vetwife]

79. Bob Kerrey has an axe to grinde

J Kerry not to be confused with Bob in Nebraska hated B Clinton.
He held the congressional medal of honor and was one of the 150 I am fairly sure that J Kerry was referring to as did really bad things in Nam. His axe to grinde wtih B Clinton is all about the deferrments. He used to have an axe to grind with Bush being AWOL then backed up on everything he said. Kerrey in my opinion is off balance and I know vets and this is one vet who is about three loaves short of a whole loaf. No direspect to the veterans, you know how I love them and help them but when they aren't thinking real straight or get a fixation, they are out of control. Bob Kerrey is visibly out of control towards anything that will help J. Kerrey. My take. He will use this commission to help Kerry stay out of the whitehouse if he can. Watch and see if he doesn't lose control with Clarke? He also was on the Whitewater investigations. Holding Clinton to the fire.

[Catherine Vincent]

80. If you listen to the media,

everytime they assess blame, they always say the Clinton AND the Bush administrations. The Bush admn may get blamed but they will blame the Clinton admn too.

That's what's goanna happen. Any bets?

[nomatrix]

81. Bush 41 alleged assassination attempt

Since it has been referenced so many times in these hearings, lets look at what was discovered, because at this point it is the sole reason for Iraq.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?020930fr_archive02

A Case Not Closed
by Seymour M. Hersh
Issue of 1993-11-01


"In interviews over the summer, many past and present American intelligence officials expressed little surprise that the Clinton Administration had predicated the bombing of Baghdad on such conflicting and dubious evidence. One C.I.A. analyst explained, "Of course nobody wants to say, 'There's nothing to it, Mr. President,' especially when other guys are pushing it. The President asks the intelligence analysts for the bottom line: Is this for real or not? You can't really lose by saying yes." That hard-line attitude—"hanging tough" in a crisis—has marked many of America's intelligence failures since the beginning of the Cold War.

Thus, on a Saturday in June, the President and his advisers could not resist proving their toughness in the international arena. If they had truly had full confidence in what they were telling the press and the public about Saddam Hussein's involvement in a plot to kill George Bush, they would almost certainly have ordered a far fiercer response than they did. As it was, confronted with evidence too weak to be conclusive but, in their view, perhaps not weak enough to be dismissed, they chose to fire missiles at night at an intelligence center in the middle of a large and populous city."


Dr.Ron Paul
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul58.html

I don't believe he's a republican. He never sides with them.

[dweller]

82. Suggest new thread starting with Clarke testimony 1:30 reconvene

n/t

dp

[vetwife]

84. We need an expert lip reader..these folks laughing and talking

If we had an expert lip reader on this forum, would help a lot ! They are saying things that they clearly don't wan th mikes to pick up and what they are not saying could be as important as what they are saying. Any lip readers?

[Vadem]

85. Richard Clarke apologizing to the 9/11 families stating that

he and the govt failed them and us for not protecting them.

[BootinUp]

87. very sincere I thought

[kentuck]

86. Clarke said he failed the families of 9/11 and asked for forgiveness.

He said they all failed. They tried, but they failed.

[robbedvoter]

88. Your government failed you. I failed you,

No higher priority in the Clinton admin than terra - but not so in Bushco.

[chelsea0011]

90. First one to admit failure and say he's sorry

Nice for a change. It wasn't get old with the nothing would have mattered tone taken by most.

[Vadem]

89. Nails it right at the start by stating that Bush said (in the

Woodward book) that "I didn't feel a sense of urgency" re terrorists!

[Spazito]

91. I found Richard Clarke's sincere apology to be...

a stark reminder to all of us what this inquiry is all about. Very powerful.

[RoundRockD]

92. I wonder if our fearless leader is watching Clarke testify?

[BootinUp]

93. Bombshell!

Asked to be reassigned in May or June due to frustration with Bushies!

[Vadem]

94. Cut off at the pass the Bushies' statement that he was "demoted"....nt

[BootinUp]

95. He's killing them

[Cush]

96. They need to subpoena Rice

[Cush]

97. Clarke corrects Gorton on the Counter Terrorism Group

Shouldn't he know this?

Oh wait, nevermind.......

[indigo32]

98. New Thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1279296