I'm confused, is being straight a life style choice?

[Robin Hood]

That's what I keep hearing from the anti-gay crowd, that being gay is a life style choice. If that's the case, then isn't being straight a life style choice? The only problem is that i don't remember being turned on by women as me making a life style choice.

[Faygo Kid]

1. Good point.

Let's see, I grew in a poor household with no father. Guess that would make me gay, right? Can't remember when I chose to be straight. Probably when I checked out the legs on my first grade teacher. Maybe if it wasn't for her. . . Anyway, "lifestyle choice" is ridiculous; no one chooses their sexuality. Good post. Love the books.

[trotsky]

2. A good question to throw back at them.

"If being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?"

I've shut up several freepers like that.

[xultar]

3. Good Point! nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

4. No, it's just "regular"

Being gay, as we all know from listening to such emminent scientists as Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell and the fine folk over at FR, is NOT normal and thus and therefore is a choice.

Drinking Budweiser - normal. Drinking microbrew beer, that's a conscious choice to be "different".

Eating barely seasoned beef and potatoes every day for forty-five years - normal. Using rosemary, or having a glass of wine with the dinner, or owning a pepper grinder - that's a conscious choice to be "different" and unchristian and america-hating, because being American is about just being normal and not drawing attention to oneself because normal was good enough for my daddy, dammit.

Reading the Bible or Hannity or Coulter or Dobson - normal. Reading anything else - a conscious choice to be different, an elitist, an intellectual, and therefore also anti-American, etc.

That's how the logic works.

[noiretextatique]

11. this is so true

my sisters treat me like an ALIEN because i go to art openings, buy organic food sometimes, and watch public television :shrug:

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. I don't doubt it

and I'm sure that they never consider that any of their actions are choices but are just "normal" and "regular".

Arrrrggggghhhh.

I get that a lot, too, from friends and family back home (though not vicuously, thankfully). "Why can't you just eat normal food?" "But, you see, sushi IS normal for the Japanese, and orange beef IS normal for the Chinese, and tea IS normal in most of the world, and etc. etc. etc."

[noiretextatique]

24. you know it!

:D they are coming for a visit this weekend...and a part of me is dreading it. i will have budweiser and screwtop wine in my home for the first time...ever! of course, i prefer snobby imported beer, and wine with a cork. oy...give me strength!
at least we can agree on chinese food...as long as it's not too "weird" :eyes:

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. Good luck with the visit!

I had the pleasure last year of taking my sister (who says she likes Chinese food) to Chinatown here in NYC and feed her at a, ahem, real Chinese restaurant for dim sum. She was excited to go - until we arrived and she started seeing the food, then became kind of hesitant, but once she realized there was no americanized "beef with cashew" bullcrap coming down the line she moved into the moment and overall she pretty much enjoyed herself. There was always hesitation in her acceptance, but she ate it, and told me later that she did actually like it even though it was "odd" Chinese food. Heh heh heh. She's lucky we kept it pretty tame, and didn't go for the tripe or the chicken feet or, you know, worse. :-)

[Az]

14. Hey!

I just went to an art opening the other day. I listen to NPR. And I enjoy musicals! Am I going to turn gay now?! /humor off

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. Wow. Since you're an atheist, I always just assumed you MUST be gay

:shrug:

(obviously, of course, a joke)

[Victimerican]

15. "Having a glass of wine with the dinner..."

or owning a pepper grinder - that's a conscious choice to be "different" and unchristian and america-hating"

Really? I thought that was just being Italian! :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. Ah, but remember - to them, being Italian is being Catholic,

and being Catholic is ALSO a choice (or something that one is simply through lack of understanding and/or papist brainwashing), unlike being protestant which is "normal" since we're a Christian (specifically Protestant) nation. :evilgrin:

[disgruntled_goat]

5. if it is

then it's not got much actual style, does it?

/me goes out to check the mail in his plaid shorts and black socks.

[ACK]

10. Not all straight guys are style less

Just like not all gays guys are style kings/queens whatever.

Feeding into the stereotypes.

:-)


BTW, the last time I was in style was during the grunge thing... was wearing consignment clothes, flannels, docs and chucks forever.

[Kanary]

6. Is being born without sight a "lifestyle choice"?

Is being born in myriad different ways a "choice"?

Some things just are.

edited to say: Choosing to remain pigheaded IS a lifestyle choice.

:)

Kanary

Another Delusional Diehard for Dennis!!

Kucinich 2004!

[Mountainman]

7. The anti-gay crowd either doesn't know what it is taking about

or it lies to protect its stand on the issue.

The right says gays are morally wrong because their religion teaches that idea. To justify being anti gay they have to say that gays choose to be gay over being straight or that they choose to be morally wrong. If gays have no choice in the matter it screws up the right's whole case against homosexuality.

You can no more be called morally correct for being straight than a gay person can be morally wrong for being gay since no one had a choice in the matter.

The right is wrong on both counts.

[arcane1]

8. of course it is!

I chose the straight lifestyle, because I was born straight. Had I been born gay I would've adopted the gay lifestyle :D

[BOSSHOG]

9. Ask your dumbass conservative acquaintances

to give you the day that they "chose" to be straight. What was the circumstance? Or are they just protesting too much? Would the conservative secretly rather gallop in the hay with a member of their own sex. Living a lie? You bet. They live in a lying political world. How many of you lurkers want it so bad but can't bare to bare your hypocrisy?

Good question Liberal_Guerilla, you goddammed liberal wrabblerouser.

[Twenty3]

57. Ask your dumbass conservative acquaintances

to give you the day that they "chose" to be straight. What was the circumstance?

I also like to add .... "I don't know 'bout you, but I sure never made any choice. I was born straight."

[Az]

12. How did you decide to like icecream?

There things we can decide like what to wear today. And then there are things we simply acknowledge about ourselves (I like chocolate). I did not decide to like chocolate. I simply found it was what I liked. Think Tigger trying to figure out what it is Tiggers really like.

The human mind has to be wired in such a way that a relatively minor difference between structures guides our preferences in what we are attracted to. Homosexuality is observed in higher order mammals but not in reptiles and lower order species. It must be an aspect of the mammalian brain.

There are differences in the structure of the brain between male and females. Particularly of note is the hypothalemus. It is measurably larger in males and smaller in females. Some studies have suggested that in homosexual males it is reduced in size. These tests are inconclusive at this time but do hint at possible neurological differences.

The mind is quite capable of being attracted to either gender. It is a simple necessity of developmental biology. A minor tweak on the part of gender definition would be sufficient to trigger the individuals preference. There is nothing to suggest that it can be set to varying degrees. Thus giving rise to those that are not as fixed on their preference and thus more flexible in partners.

[Az]

16. Why homosexuality worries some so

We grow up in a binary environment. That is as children we are raised to see people defined by their external apparent gender. Male and Female. We learn to bond with each other within this context.

These bonding cues become part of our greeting with each other. Later when our own sexual drives enter into the equation we begin to look for new means of bonding with the opposite sex. Homosexuality remains on the extreme periphery for most people. The challenges of overcoming social awkwardness with others is more than enough to occupy their attention.

Thus when our environment shifts enough to bring us into contact with individuals that are openly homosexual we have not developed any sense of how to bond with them. In fact for men it can be even more awkward as their normal physically rough approach to bonding can be misinterpretted in their minds.

Add into the mix the fact that males are typically seen as the aggressive personality and women as the passionate nurturing individuals and you have a volitile mix. Women expressing homosexual tendencies will be far more acceptable. They are simply expressing an exaggeration of their socially accepted traits. But men being passionate with each other causes a great rift in the social expectations of their gender.

In truth exposure and openess on these factors will disolve the discomfort our society feels on the subject of homosexuality. It is lack of experience that causes people to be discomforted in situations. Stay out, stay positive, and stay yourself.

[mmm]

18. I believe no one knows why some are hetero and some are gay

Let me ask you this, however.
If it turns out that being gay is the result of
some controllable factor, such as temperature in the birthing room
or diet consumed by the mother the week before delivery,
would you chose gay or straight for your children?

This issue is not as cut and dried as some would make it seem.
The facts are not in yet, and until they are we would
be wise to move with great caution. Great caution.

[prolesunited]

22. Wise to move with great caution?

Huh? Could you elaborate?

[mmm]

31. sad that no one answered this directly

simple:
1. we do not know the cause of homosexuality
2. were the cause known would you chose to make
your children homosexual (of course you would not)
there you go
time to stop dancing and answer the question!

[Robin Hood]

34. If we do not know the cause of homosexuality

then we don't know the cause of heterosexuality either. We do know that it's not exclusive to the human race.

[Duncan Grant]

41. Instead of me answering this hypothetical nonsense...

perhaps you would consider an exploration of cultural anthropology?

>>2. were the cause known would you chose to make
your children homosexual (of course you would not)
there you go
time to stop dancing and answer the question!<<

You are speaking from a specific cultural bias (as am I). I have no argument with that; as long as you can acknowledge it, and have some willingness to consider how different cultures have either accepted or rejected homosexuality over time.

Now, to answer your question. Yes, I would be willing to choose homosexuality for my children. It is a remarkable and fascinating human experience; worthy of respect and of infinite value to humanity. Is there anything else you would like to know?

[geniph]

20. Can you make yourself be attracted to someone you find repulsive?

Me either. One does not choose to be attracted to certain people, and not be attracted to others. There's a lot of things, both genetic and cultural, that go into determining who does and who does not strike sparks with you, but the fact remains that it is NOT a conscious choice for most of us. I can't choose to be attracted to types that don't do it for me. I may, on occasion, find an individual who is of a type that normally doesn't do it for me attractive, but I still have a tendency to go for particular types - and why those particular types, I do not know. It just is.

[camero]

21. So what if it is?

It doesn't give anyone the right to impose lifestyle choices on others. (I'm actually taking up for you in a roundabout way)

[greekspeak]

23. Here are some lifestyle choices

Being a bigot and using religion to justify your hatefulness.

Being a closed-minded conservative dittohead.

Making a career out of spreading hate.

Basing your life on biblical passages you picked and chose as suits you, while ignoring those you do not agree with.

People that try to invalidate homsexuality by calling it a "lifestyle choice" often select such lifestyle choices.

[noiretextatique]

25. ain't it the truth!

it's time we turn the table of these bigots. they are in no position to judge anyone :puke:

[Robin Hood]

36. Aint that the truth.

I will deffinetly remember your post in my next encounter with these idiots.

[Duncan Grant]

55. This is why I can't leave DU.

Your post is worth remembering greekspeak! Thanks for that! :yourock:

[mlawson]

26. In every interview, the questioner could DESTROY this bullshit

about being gay a 'choice', by simply remarking that if only gays and lesbians have to make his so-called 'choice', then there must be something inherent in their biological makeup that causes it. Thus, it IS GENETIC!!!

But of course, no one EVER does that. They just sit there and allow jerry foulwell to rant on with this bullshit!! :mad:

Imagine that.

[DennisReveni]

27. Both

It is both. There are true homosexuals, and there are trendy homosexuals.

[Robin Hood]

35. Trend homosexuals?

You're kidding right? I don't care how trendy it may be, i personally don't get turned on by another mans genetalia. Nor a gay man by another womans genitalia.

[TankLV]

28. Yes it is - but it's also the APPROVED lifestyle choice!

Get with the program.

I personally just really enjoy having people I don't know wish I were dead or killed, tortured, and maimed!

[Selwynn]

30. [devils advocate] No. Being straight is natural.

Being "Gay" is a choice against God's design, therefore a "perversion."



That can make our blood boil all we want, but that's STILL why your point will make NO difference to the anti-gay crowd: they don't agree with your logic.

[kiahzero]

33. Logic is logic

The fact that they disagree is what makes them wrong. It can be logically demonstrated that the idea that "being a homosexual is a choice" is not logically consistant with the evidence.

Proof by contradiction:
(A) Assume that homosexuality is a choice.
(B) A choice is defined as a concious decision for one out of two or more options.

Let x and y be defined as men, where x is attracted to men, and y is attracted to women.
(I) By (A), x must have made a choice to be attracted to men.
(II) Split cases:
Case 1: y was not able to make a choice between being attracted to men and being attracted to women.
Case 2: y was able to make a choice between being attracted to men and being attracted to women.

Case 1:
If y was not able to make a choice between being attracted to men and being attracted to women, there is a non-choice difference between x and y that allows x to be homosexual. Hence, homosexuality is not a choice.

Case 2:
If y was able to make a choice between being attracted to men and being attracted to women, by (B), y should be able to explain when that choice was made. Since y cannot explain the choice, y did not make a choice. See Case 1.

((In retrospect, I'm not happy with Case 1... anyone willing to help me refine it?))

[Az]

38. Logic is

a lovely bunch of flowers that smells bad. - Spock

Sorry, the endless thread in the lounge got to me.

[leesa]

32. Of course it is. A heterosexual could easily choose to practice

homosexuality. Happens quite regularily if the opposite sex not available.

Just kidding. I don't think it's a choice but the uptight conservative logic would dictate that either would be a choice.

[foreigncorrespondent]

37. In my case it was.

I was born a lesbian, but chose to deny that part of me, and lived a lie. I did what I thought society expected of me for 15 years, and was in a commited relationship with a guy! So you see, it was a choice for me. :)

[kiahzero]

39. No, you chose your behavior

You never chose who you were attracted to.

[foreigncorrespondent]

49. True!

ButI did choose to live a straight life, even if it was a lie.

Never again though. Hell I am queer and I am here to stay. :)

[Robin Hood]

42. It is sad and oh so wrong,

that we do this to the people that we love. There are so many gay teenagers out there who commit suicide because they are torn apart by this needless shame. And there are even more people that just plain live a lie because of this kind of non sense.

I am sorry that you had to endure this. You deserve to be just as happy/miserable as I am.

[foreigncorrespondent]

47. Yes it is very sad...

...and unfortunately not much attention is given to the gay teenage suicide rate.

I remember a story that hit the news about three years or so ago now, about a teenage guy, who had realized he was gay. He came home and told his parents. His parents treated him like such shit, that he went into his bedroom and two minutes later the parents heard the sound of a gun being fired. They went into his bedroom, and there he was, dead on the floor with a head wound.

People really don't pay enough attention to it.

[Robin Hood]

51. Jeezus H Christ.

How fucking sad is that? Images of Matthew Sheppard come up all over again.

[foreigncorrespondent]

53. Exactly!

When I think of that story, I always think about Matthew and of course Brendan Teena.

I often wonder what their last thoughts would have been.

And I often wonder how parents can let their own bigotry stand in the way of the love they have for their children.

I have absolutely no contact what so ever with my father, step mother and two half brothers, because my dad can't accept me for the person I am.

I get annoyed about it some times, but my outlook has always been, that they are the ones robbing themsleves of being in my life, for letting their bigotry stand in the way of the love they are meant to have for me.

People need to realize that if a person is queer or straight, nothing on earth that they can say is going to change that fact. The only thing that can happen is, if a parent/s choose to not accept it, then they are going to lose a child through suicide or that child leaving and not coming back home again.

My sister however, has three children, and all three are growing up knowing their Aunty is a lesbian and that it is nothing to be ashamed of. Unfortunately their father (my sisters husband) is a bit of a homophobe, but I have been lucky enough to counteract his bigotry by just being me.

[Robin Hood]

59. Good for you. I admire your strength.

What a tough thing you have had to deal with. It is sad that people choose to treat each other this way.

[Used and Abused]

40. yes

just as getting married, staying single, etc. are all lifestyle choices.

[Robin Hood]

43. Sexual preference is not like getting married.

Did you make a lifestyle choice to desire whatever sex you may desire? If you did than you may not be true to your self because for me it was not a choice it was a need.

[Used and Abused]

45. well, there are two forms of being gay/straight

I read the question to mean: Is living a gay lifestyle a choice? I think it is, just like being straight is a choice. Even though I am straight, I could always decide to change that, and a gay person could always marry someone of the opposite sex. Now inside, we may feel one way or the other. But acting on how we feel inside is a choice.

[Robin Hood]

48. So you condone living a lie.

and forcing people to be miserable, all to uphold some social ideal that rarely exists?

[Used and Abused]

52. no

i'm simply saying that we can choose whether to live a lie or not. That is where the choice comes in.

[Robin Hood]

58. But your true sexual prefference is not a choice.

Staying in the closet or coming is a choice.

[mulethree]

44. You don't get it, what the choice is ...

You are supposed to marry the opposite sex and make grandkids.

If you don't much go for the opposite sex, then you get drunk, close your eyes and pretend whatever you need to, to do the job and make those grandbabies. Just like so many wives pretend to orgasm, so to did many of our forefathers and foremothers pretend. Don't worry, once you have them babies you're gonna love them so much that you won't be able to help loving your spouse who helped you produce them.

So the choice is, to ignore the above and actually be with people who do "do it for you". So what if your poor old mother whose figure you destroyed, who was in labor with you for 84 hours! has to go to her grave without grandkids. It's all about YOU being happy you ungrateful brat! Oh why couldn't I have a kid who would choose to be Normal and live a regular miserable life and make me happy with some grandkids!?

[Robin Hood]

46. lol.. now that's funny.

nt.

[Duncan Grant]

50. Mom, is that you?????!!!!!

:wow: :wow: :wow:

[foreigncorrespondent]

54. Oh!

But mum, who so wants to be a little old granny in a rocking chair knitting the grandbabies little warm jumpers for the Winter months, what about us kids that can't have children?

I happen to have a medical problem and because of that medical problem I do not ovulate. So what am I meant to do, mum?

[Nikia]

56. In some cases it is

I don't know what percentage of the population is bi to some extent. I met a lot of people in college who were bi to some extent, usually not 50/50 and sometimes not in the same way to both genders. Of course, I think that there are a lot more people who are bi, but tend more strongly gay, are choosing the straight lifestyle than the other way around. As one of my female friends said, "It is easier for me to just date men even though I am girl crazy. I do like men too after I get to know them." Even though I consider myself heterosexual and have never had a same sex experience, I think that it would have been possible for me to have a successful lesbian relationship if I felt that was the choice that wouldn't get me persecuted even though I am definitely attracted more to men.
I wonder how many anti gay people choose the straight lifestyle. That's why they think it is a choice because it was for them. It must upset them that they chose to deny their attraction of members of the same sex while others accepted it and are now demanding rights that their relationships can result in marriage too.