What is a Think-Tank, and is Democratic Underground a.. er..Think-Tank?

[trumad]

I think it is.... If you truly want to understand the game of Politics and use it to your advantage, me-thinks that there's no better site on the net. Not only does DU have excellent writers and posters but it also links us to all the other great sites on Al Gore's Superhighway....

[Nlighten1]

1. Well...

I think it is high time we progressive lefties had a think tank of our own. I'm not talking about the one that was started earlier this year by some prominent Democrats either.

That being said though it is a lot of work to get it rolling.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. There are plenty of think tanks and advocacy groups on the left

The difference is that they proceed academically and usually in an unwoven manner with divergent purposes...unlike the right who operates in tandem...the left still hasn't learned this lesson.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. WEll a Think Tank is usually comprised of academics

who write policy papers and promote them for the purposes of legislation so NO...we aren't a think tank....we are more open media analysis....which is why it is important to note the source of one's contentions.

[RandomKoolzip]

3. I'm more inclined to use the likes of the Brookings institute

as examples of "think tanks."

DU is a message board, sort of a very large meeting place. It's like the parking lot of a Grateful Dead show that's happening 24 hours a day 7 days a week, except instead of trust fund kids and scraggly burnouts, there's interesting, smart, funny, passionate people all over the place.

I wouldn't want DU to become so hidebound as to be referred to as a "think tank."

[Az]

4. No, DU is not a think tank

We may certainly think up ideas and such. But a think tank is a specifically organized group of individuals that have access to valid information and are sought by individuals to cogitate tactics and battle plans for their positions.

[trumad]

7. access to valid information

LOL.... It seems to me that DU is full of "valid information" ... That's what seperates us from the crap out there...

[Az]

9. We certainly hope we have access

But the trouble is that we have to fight for every scrap of information we can find. We cannot be certain that our sources are untarnished. We do not have access to direct lines of information or the unvarnished reports that a real think tank would have access to.

[trumad]

12. True

but I would toss 95 percent of what the Heritage Foundation er foundates!

[papau]

14. direct lines of information or the unvarnished reports - but CATO/Heritage

spin like crazy on most days - although it depends on the fellow producing the report (the last 5 years of CATO on Social Security actually had some valid and even well done analysis - and yes there are folk on DU who are qualified to judge CATO quality in given areas).

Brookings tends to be pure high quality - a level nothing at DU reaches.

But the pretend "think tanks" set up by the right seem to lock on second rate researchers doing spin jobs with partial truth - if you are lucky. DU quality tends to be better than that - in my opinion.

[Az]

16. Not commenting on the quality

Just that we do not have official lines of information. We struggle for the truth we find. Heritage and other foundations have a better line on what they want to see. That is a critical difference. They can close their eyes to truth and only see what they want to. We have to deal with our own infighting to discern what survives as valid ideas within our communitee.

[NewJeffCT]

6. I hope not

We're way too divided & fractious to be considered a think tank. More like a forum free-for-all.

[BlueEyedSon]

8. More like a DRUNK Tank (Fridays after 5PM)

:)

[PartyPooper]

11. LOL! Good one!

:toast:

:beer:

:evilgrin:

[Free_Thinking1]

10. Like I said on another thread

a true think tank does not dismiss ideas as being stupid or evil simply because of who comes up with them. As is usually the case around here (though around here that opinion is correct 90% of the time). Once again, flame away, I'm a big boy, I can take it.

[trumad]

13. You're really not making sense....

Please elaborate and provide some context to your comments... It might help.

[Free_Thinking1]

18. I don't know how to explain,

on this site, any idea that is brought up that is in any way supportive of the Bush administration or the GOP is immediately shot down as idiotic, evil or a freeper invasion.

Not that this is a bad thing, that is what we are here for, to exchange ideas with like minded people. But that, in my opinion, prevents this from being a true think tank. Well, that and the fact that we have no real idea who everyone here is, what their qualifications are, where they are getting their ideas and information, etc...

Is that any clearer, I will admit I do sometimes have a little trouble clearly conveying my thoughts.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. I believe the Manhattan Institute considers itself a think-tank and

they do all the things that you claim a think-tank is not suppose to do.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I think you have think tank confused with something else

Who on the board of American Enterprise Institute promotes socialism? Are they then not a think tank?

[trumad]

21. example of your support of Bush Policies please

I'd love to hear them?

[Free_Thinking1]

22. Well, I wasn't expecting this,

but here are a few. I, like many other democrats think he handled the days immediately following 9/11 pretty well. I think the war in Afghanistan was handled well. I, like Sen. Kerry, agreed that the war in Iraq was necessary. Of course all of that has fallen apart now. I don't really support too many of Bush's policies, but am willing to admit that every once in a while republicans can actually come up with a good idea or two. I think it is pretty ridiculous to believe that a political group (or any group/person) could be wrong 100% of the time. And I think by closing yourself off from ideas simply because you don't like the person who came up with it is a pretty dangerous way to live, let alone run a country.

Edit: spelling.

[trumad]

23. And how did he handle it?

First off, he sat and read a story about bugs while planes were flying into the WTC and then the Pentagon.... Then he flew around and hid in Nebraska after the attacks.... Then he finally got too New York a week later and stood on a the bodies of the dead at the WTC using a visiting firefighter and a bullhorn as a prop to make him look like a tough guy.

Senator Kerry never suggested that the war in Iraq was necessary... As a matter of fact he thinks it wasnt and states it daily. He voted for the resolution because he thought Bush would use all means to disarm Suddam...Bush lied, ..right?

So tell me...WHY are you for the war in Iraq? I'd love to know?

[Free_Thinking1]

25. Ok, here we go.

First, yes, Bush was reading a book about bugs, some people were eating breakfast, I was sitting on a mountain in Kosovo, you may have been ironing you clothes, I don't know, that is what happens when an attack is a surprise, people are doing things they would normally do. Him flying all over the place, I have to assume that would be SOP when there is a real threat that the country is under full on attack, I don' work for the Secret Service so I don't know.

Whether he says now that it was wrong or not, Sen. Kerry, along with a lot of other democratic politicians voted for the war and many of us left thinking people thought that the war was necessary, we thought Iraq had WMDs and we thought they were helping out the terrorists.

I am still on the fence on whether or not Bush lied or is so stupid that he believed his advisers when they lied to him. Either way, I think he and his pals needs to go.

[trumad]

28. You're comparing what you and I were doing during 9/11 to Bush

Are you serious? He was the President of the God Damn United States and he sat on his hands as we were being attacked. Do you even know the 9/11 timeline and the events that transpired that morning with Bush and Gang?
Do me a favor before you go on spouting nonsense about somehting you obviously have no clue about...Clink on the link that I have provided you, read this excellent piece regarding the Bush Timeline and then come back and post your thoughts.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

Remember...Bush and only Bush had the power to shoot down a civilian aircraft in this situation.

[Free_Thinking1]

29. I have read all that before,

and don't have an answer if those facts are true. Are you actually suggesting that Bush should have ordered the shoot down of a civilian plane? Can you imagine the crap storm had this actually happened? I mean, sure the result of not doing that was worse, but I can't expect that any president would have made that call. I simply called on the comparison to illustrate that no one (other than the terrorists) knew that was going to happen.

[trumad]

30. Of course they are true and well documented by numerous sources.

What...are you unable to believe the facts? What's up with that?..

And yah...If he could have ordered the shoot down of at least one of the jets he may have saved hundreds of lives.... That was his fucking job and instead he did nothing. WHY! Why did he continue to read a book about a bug while planes were killing thousands?

So his inaction is OK with you?

[CatWoman]

34. Isn't that American defensive policy?

after being told one plane went into the towers, and knowing another is on the way, wouldn't that have been the sane call to make for a "decisive" war president??

[Free_Thinking1]

35. I have no idea if that is the policy

I also don't really believe that they knew for sure that another was on the way in enough time to stop it.

[CatWoman]

37. Well

30 minutes (at least) passed between each incident.

And our fearless leader sat there reading a book to children.

Gotta admire that strong, decisive leadership.

[leyton]

32. I supported the war in Afghanistan.

Getting rid of the Taliban and crippling al Qaeda - how is that bad in any way, shape, or form? What's more, it was quick, and though all wars have casualties on both sides, I think it was well handled. We almost caught Osama, and I will not speak to whether or not we could have and didn't, for two reasons: (1) it takes military analysts to analyze these situations, and we don't have all the facts anyway; (2) Bush is not in charge of the actual detachment of soldiers surrounding Tora Bora; the soldiers do the best they can.

Though the Bush Administration has botched a lot of things in Iraq and has not really followed through on Afghanistan, they got it right during the actual war in Afghanistan.

And we also have the Do Not Call List, which I am thankful for.

People here who dismiss *everything* the Bush administration has done are often more partisan than anything else. I think that if a Democrat had done many of these things - like the war in Afghanistan, like the response on 9/11 - we would laud him for his foreign policy leadership. But sometimes it's easier to forget that and just dismiss everything the current administration does.

[CatWoman]

36. that's because so many of his policies are evil and idiotic

on this site, any idea that is brought up that is in any way supportive of the Bush administration or the GOP is immediately shot down as idiotic, evil or a freeper invasion.

Sane, free-thinking people usually see right thru him and his phony compassionatism.

[nostamj]

15. there is a new progressive 'think tank'

http://www.americanprogress.org/

The Center for American Progress

Eric Alterman is one of the main people behind it.

you can get a regular emailing from the site.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. It absolutely is.

Perhaps not as well connected as say, the Manhattan Institute which did its damn best to eliminate social programs by supporting pseudo-scientist who tried to make a case that the programs won't work because some races are genetically inferior... but, DU is a place where we shake out weak ideas and snake out hidden agendas.

[VolcanoJen]

24. DU is a think-tank of, by, and especially for, The People.

We are absolutely a think-tank, although not in the traditional sense.

I remain so very proud of this community and all that we have done in the interest of our country.

[Az]

26. We are people who think

But a think tank is an organized institution designed to come up with specific concepts for a group. We are a loose gathering of like minded individuals struggling together to make some sense of this increasingly interesting nation (interesting as in "may you live in interesting times").

[Festivito]

27. In a way. Somewhere between actual LW tanks and RW tanks.

That is that our people are not a unified group of smart people. There are people here, posting, at various levels of intelligence.

A think tank can forget what it is to be real.

The Right Wing has smart people also. However, I'm seeing they have paid smart people hounded by limited-vision wealthy people.

Truth can be subverted from listeners at a price. The question remains: Do they have enough money to buy the power they still have the energy to desire.

I don't wish them luck.

[Renew Deal]

31. Short answer is Yes. DU is a think tank.

I will try to add more later.

[nomatrix]

33. Excellent question, and talking points

Shows you are thinking clearly and you are right about DU. The same thing was true with Salon/tabletalk during 2000 elections. All you had to do was ask a question, and could have answers in seconds.

What separates forums from think-tanks other than funding, think-tanks are united in their cause. Forums will have disinformation from disruptors. Spend enough on a forum like DU and you will see a pattern of how they will derail a topic with sensitive issues. The same will be done on CSpan call ins, saying they are a democrat, or a veteran, blah-blah...and how they now support the president.

There was a thread, I think it was Friday that talked about "talking points" that are faxed to RW, radio to give them their rant for the day.

http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200207/thinktank.asp

[NewHampster]

38. IMHO many of us Think when we're Tanked

And thats when DU comes up with some of its greatest threaded thoughts.

somebody had to say it.

:toast: