Oh jesus the army just called me help me DU please read please read

[Mari333]

they told me they are furious with me for mentioning my stepson Michael in Iraq, and Im in trouble for mentioning his name out loud and I have violated the army code and they might throw him out of the army and they might give him a dishonourable discharge and they are coming after us...
what can I do? they want to shut me up ..someone help me here

[yardwork]

1. Are you kidding?

Is this for real?

[Mari333]

2. yes a woman called and said the commandant and general

are angry and want to throw him out of the army because I spoke up and said he didnt want to go to Iraq in the first place..and I wrote letters to the paper speaking out against it

[PaDUer]

58. Good...

let them put him out..don't worry about them..If they do, you and your family will sleep better..There's nothing they can do to you.

[justsam]

96. after thinking about this for a while, someone is pulling your chain.

A provost marshal would represent the Army and get in touch with you, onot by phone either, they would come see you or ask you to come in.. if they call again, tell them to go scratch

[AP]

157. They can't throw him out on hearsay! What you said about what he said

is such flimsly evidence.

That'd be outrageous.

I seriously doubt that there's a "code" which allows that.

It think it'd be very unconsitutional if there were. It would probably be a violation of Michael's due process rights.

[Arkana]

178. pull a Harry Truman

and tell them to go to hell.

[calimary]

192. GET A LAWYER, MARI!! GET THE ACLU!!!

Make a bigger stink about this!

[arewethereyet]

184. I don't believe there are commandants in the Army

Generals yes. Commandants are the ex-lilitary people in charge of ROTC and military schools and they actually have no authority at all.

And if the Army has a beef they can only have that beef with the one who signed on the dotted line. You never made a contract with them and your actions will not have any bearing with the kid.

THis sounds like a hoax.

[Redleg]

201. I'll second that- sounds like a hoax to me.

If not, someone needs to get his/her ass burned for telling you this.

[Sugarbleus]

212. Mari......I can't know whether what happened was for real but

how does your stepson feel about being dishonorably discharged? Is it okay with him? If so, get a lawyer and then tell the army to pound salt and let your son out!

It's odd that they would threaten your son with DD when they are trying like crazy to keep people enlisted....nearly forever!

My hubby was DD for beating the crap outta his commanding officer. The only reason he wasn't court martialed was because the CO WAS an ass/guilty of asking the soldiers to do stuff they thought was wrong.
Life goes on. So, the CO got an ass whooping and hubby came home alive.

[qanda]

3. You've never mentioned his full name, have you?

I would think that it's time to find an attorney.

[Mari333]

10. Yes I mentioned his name so what

I only said stepson as I recall but who cares I am been making waves...I am so angry now they are yelling at us on phone now as we speak my husband is getting yelled at by them

[qanda]

19. I only asked that because

In the past, you've been careful about how much info you give out about him. I was just wondering how they figured out who he is.

On Edit: ((((Mari333))) You must be going crazy right now and I want you to know that you have a lot of people in your corner. Let us know what we can do to help.

[KC21304]

26. I don't believe they would do this over the phone, on a Sunday .

THey would do it in person. I would bet is is this Laura B---- trying to get back at you.

You have her e-mail address right ? I think you should get to the bottom of this and let her have it. Have the telephone company put a tracer on your phone.

[justsam]

that's just a scare tactic

you didn't give out any military secretes, there are hundreds of soldiers that don't want to be in Iraq, only an idiot wants to get shot at..It would be different if they were there for all the right reasons instead of all the wrong reasons!!

[AP]

158. Tell them not to contact you. Get a lawyer and tell them to contact you

through your lawyer.

Once you tell someone you have a lawyer, they're not allowed to contact you directly.

[kysrsoze]

166. Tell them to go fuck themselves

Tell them to go ahead and fire him. I think this whole thing is B.S. from some RW freaks.

[blondeatlast]

121. I've been following, and I don't ever recall her mentioning it.

[joeybee12]

4. Yes, are you kidding? And where did you mention his name?

[Nlighten1]

5. Get a lawyer and fast...

Document everything and record all of your phone calls in the future...

[Yemp4734]

186. "record all of your phone calls"

Er... check your state laws before you take this advice. In some states this could get you in to legal trouble by its self.

[TahitiNut]

223. MIchigan has the "all-party consent" law for recording.

IOW, all parties to the conversation must consent to a recording.

http://archive.aclu.org/issues/cyber/phonelaw.html

[arcos]

6. Speak louder... tell the media! n/t

[Deja Q]

115. I SECOND THAT! Tell the media! (Get a lawyer too!)

Good luck! This is an injustice and an outrage...

[blondeatlast]

126. YES! nt

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. Tell them good! Throw him out...send him home to safety...

and remind them we have freedom of speech in the USA...isn't that what he is fighting for? Freedom...

[rockymountaindem]

11. A dishonorable discharge

looks really bad on your record. It can really mess up your whole life. Otherwise, anybody who wanted to get out of the military could do so just by punching an officer or something. Believe me, this is a very serious threat.

[Andy_Stephenson]

18. Better a dishonorable discharge than dead.

your right of course...but he better off home IMHO. I would hire him. No problem

[Karenina]

65. I'm not sure what the problem is...

Mari is a firebrand. They want to throw her kid out of harm's way cuz she makes too much noise. WORKS FOR ME cuz I WANT HER BOY and his jenky adolescent butt, first and foremost, BACK HOME ALIVE!!! Did I miss something?

[Andy_Stephenson]

77. I agree...

get his butt back home where it belongs...cause he sure as hell doesn't belong there.

[leesa]

80. What would he be dishonorably discharged for? Did he do anything

wrong? I know they can trump it up, but he didn't do anything as far as I can tell.

If it were me, I would choose to go louder and louder. That way if anything happens to your stepson, it is very obvious. What a fascist country we live in. Holding your stepson's future hostage in order to suppress your right to speak freely.

[Yemp4734]

189. The ONLY thing I can think of

"I know they can trump it up, but he didn't do anything as far as I can tell"

, assuming this isn't someone screwing with her, would be if he told her something and she printed it that he was ordered not to say. In which case they would probably have a solid case against him.

[I Lean Left]

92. Reminds me of the story when Kerry was complaining about Nam

He figured, 'What's the worst they can do? Send me to VietNam?

Let your son come home. Whole. They can't dishonorably discharge someone for something their parent said. Easily dismissed.

[Kimber Scott]

142. Nothing your family says, or does, can get you discharged

as long as you are doing your job. That's ridiculous.

[Sugarbleus]

214. My hubby got DD and he's still living and thriving....not so bad

I guess it would depend on what type of work one wanted to pursue after serving.........otherwise it's not all that big of a deal.

[wryter2000]

8. Oh, sheeze, Mari

I have no experience with them. I'm pulling for you.

A very ignorant question...is a dishonorable discharge worse than having him in Iraq?

:hug:

On second thought, someone reported a soldier because of something his wife said on Doug Basham's bb once. I don't think much came of it.

[Cleita]

9. I would think they couldn't give someone a dishonorable

for something done by their mother. Sounds to me like they are bluffing you to get you to shut up.

[cally]

48. I agree with you Cleita

I have no personal experience but it would astound me that a soldier could be dishonorably discharged for what his stepmom says. Think about this, none of us can control our adult family members. A soldier on active duty can't. You didn't sign any papers and I would bet your stepson never said he could stop his entire family from speaking out.

Get a lawyer, quick.

[bearfartinthewoods]

83. well she said he and his whole unit hate bush

that might make somebody curious to talk to her son.

[bearfartinthewoods]

78. sounds more like someone trying to scare her.

a phone call on a sunday is out of whack somehow. i know a general. i'll see if he can shed some light.

[bearfartinthewoods]

124. sorry mari, my friend isn't available

which usually means he's out of the country. he'll probably call me back but it could be a week or more. it looks like you have the info you need anyway. good luck and keep as cool as you can.

[Mari333]

12. They told me I have to go thru the army before my letters

to the editor are approved!

[yardwork]

17. That can't be true. That has to be a lie to intimidate you.

Get a lawyer.

[5thGenDemocrat]

46. Don't mess with the lawyer -- call Carl Levin and your congressman

And tell them what you're telling us.
First, I doubt this is the Army doing this -- sounds to me like a prankster. But, if it IS the Army, nobody (but n-o-o-o-o-body) throws the fear of God into them like a US Senator. Congresscritters are good -- senators are lots better -- and knowing you live in SW Michigan, I have to assume your congressman is a Republican. So call Levin. Call Stabenow, too.
Further, I don't think the Army can or would do anything to a troop for what his stepmother said. But call Carl Levin's office first thing Monday and let them take it from there. If it is the Army, Levin will put an end to the harrassment toot sweet.
John
An Army veteran who has seen the awesome power of Congress from the inside. Trust me on this.

[Career Prole]

41. Tell them you want it in writing. In fact insist on everything in writing.

I'm thinking it'll stop if you do.

[AgadorSparticus]

119. career, you're right. GET IT IN WRITING!! something is wrong.

you have military families speaking out all the time against this war and of bush. this sounds like a cheap scare tactic directed towards you, mari. record & document everything. and speak to the press. more people need to know what they are doing to intimidate people. best wishes to you, Mari! hang in there. we are in your corner.

[onecitizen]

60. Oh Mari, my heart is breaking for you.........

but I'll bet this is a sick joke played by the other side. I mean who would have their LTE approved before they were sent? Something smells rank here. Hang in there Mari, you have done NOTHING wrong. Nothing. Someone is messing with you.:grr:

[Terran]

64. That is complete BS!

You have no such responsibility. Just because you have a relative in the military doesn't curtail your 1st Amendment rights. They're either trying to intimidate you or the people you're talking to aren't really who you think they are.

[PaDUer]

69. That's BS..

it's probably a freeper..don't you have caller ID? Check out who it belongs to..search engines permit you to crosscheck.

[bandy]

100. How about *69

that's a callback feature here in Jeb country.

[blondeatlast]

128. ??? Did you enlist that we weren't aware of? Don't buy it.

[Kimber Scott]

144. YOU ARE NOT IN THE ARMY!

The Army has no say over what you say, or do, and it has no legal bearing on your son, as long as he is doing his job.

[AP]

159. YOU'RE not the one in the army!!! This cannot be true. You can't be

subject to any code that you've not agreed to.

[Vadem]

172. Bullsh*t!!! Don't we have freedom of speech in this country???..

eom

[PatGund]

208. Someone is yanking your chain....

or harassing you. And I doubt it's the Army. More than likely some freeper-type moran who's trying to get you to shut up. You're not in the Army, and your right to free speech is in no way, shape or form hindered by the fact your stepson is in the service.

Next time someone calls claiming to be from the Army, ask them for their full name and rank, unit and position, their post, their commanding officer, and full work address and phone number. (also get a Caller ID box, and document the name and number on that call.)

Write down all details of such a call. If it is someone in the service, (doubtful, but it may be some idiot operating on their own rather than under orders), then contact the post's legal authorities and their c/o. If it's not someone in the service, log and record the information with an eye towards eventual harassment charages.

Good luck!

[Ladyhawk]

13. How in the hell does what you do / say affect your son's job?

That has to be the most outrageous thing I've ever heard. Are you sure someone isn't playing a horrible prank?

[playahata1]

14. That is bullshit!

Do a *69 if you can, and call the # back to make sure this is legit. It's probably a freeper crank caller trying to shut you up for good.

And what does the Army code have to do with YOU, parent of the enlisted? YOU can speak out, if not Michael.

[Liberal Veteran]

15. Read carefully: They can't do a damn thing to you over this.

And they cannot discharge your son over this.

Don't let them bully you. Call the person who called you and inform them that you are going to report this harrassment to your congressmen and your local newspapers.


That ought to shut them up.

[mistertrickster]

37. Lib Vet is right . . . this smells very bad.

Stay calm and get all the information you can from them--name, rank, serial number, commanders, phone numbers, where stationed etc.

I'm betting none if it is going to be legit. But if it is, you can have it checked out.

At any rate, the idea that your son could be discharged for something YOU said is ridiculous. It's called "hearsay" and it is NOT admissible in court.

This is either freeper madness or illegal blackmail. It may be both. Consider going on the offensive to see who's behind this and sue their asses off.

[khashka]

101. Good Advice

>Stay calm and get all the information you can from them--name, rank, >serial number, commanders, phone numbers, where stationed etc.

If they get tough, you get tougher. Talk to a lawyer and talk to the local papers. Also... hang up the damn phone already! You don't need this crap.

Frankly, as much as I have problems with the military, this isn't their style. Sounds much more like someone who read what you said and took it into their own hands to shut you up.

The military isn't gonna do anything to your stepson over this. Or to you. Parents get freaked out when their kid might die - this is true of everyone in the military. Their parents are scared for them. As they should be. Proud and scared. Some parents speak out. This is an old old old issue for the services and they usually ignore it.

It really does sound like someone else. Protecting American values - as if giving support and comfort to the families of service men and women isn't the best of American values.


Don't be intimidated. Demand name, rank, serial number, who they are speaking for ("The Army" doesn't cut it - who authorized or directed them to call you? Get a name.).

Also feel free to hang up. And then do it.

I know you want your son home. So do I. But he made a choice and we should honour that. And one way it can be honoured is not having to worry about his parents.

You don't need it, your husband doesn't, and your stepson certainly doesn't.

These people can't do a damn thing to your kid. Or you. Except make you miserable. So hang up, swear, scream - do all the uncivilized things you'd never do. They can't really hurt you and you'll feel a little better.

I'll be praying for you. And especially for your stepson. I hope he comes home soon.

Khash.

[rumguy]

42. Yes, call your papers and congressional reps...

You have freedom of speech, this is total BS.

What about all the parents who recently protested in DC? Are they threatening all of them too?

This is a controversy Mari.

[Career Prole]

16. Holy shit! You're pulling my leg aren't you?

Is this a gift from Laura the Lurker? The dishonorable discharge part is bullshit. If by "Army code" they're referring to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, your nephew can't be charged for something you said...or even for something you may have said he said. My impression is it's bullshit harassment from someone outside the government...but how did L the Lurker get your number? Are you listed?


P.S. {{{Mari333}}} Relax, hon...k?

[wryter2000]

79. I asked the lady at Doug Basham

She confirmed what everyone is saying. This is BS. You didn't sign the code, and your freedom of speech is intact. This is a prank. And a really nasty one.

[BlueJazz]

20. Are you sure that this isn't some nut

who got your name from the letters that you've been writing and
just wants to scare you?

I am suspicious why they would call you on a Sunday.

25. Ditto on that....

Your doing something should not affect your stepson.
Sounds like some whack job is screwing with you.

[wryter2000]

29. I'm suspicious, too

But where did they get her number?

Do you have an unusual name so that they could find you in the phone book? This is sure sounding crank-y to me.

[Mari333]

107. I have an unlisted number

this was a woman whose husband is in the same unit as my stepson and has my number.

[CatWoman]

21. Mari

First, let me say that I am one of your biggest fans.

I'm an Army veteran, and this smells fishy as hell.

Your stepson, and only your stepson, can be reprimanded via UCMJ for his actions, not yours.

They have absolutely NO control over his parents, siblings, etc.

If I were you, I'd try to contact Max Cleland, Charles Rangel, or any other veteran who is in the government and ask their advice.

[mourningdove92]

22. Your son has given up his freedom of speech as far as

expressing his view for or against the war, the president, the country in general, and whether or not he likes apple pie. You, however, did not sign on the dotted line.
You are either being bluffed or someone is messing with you.

[Skittles]

23. THE ARMY WOULD NOT DO THIS

these are the same wingnut idiots who confronted your husband because of the stuff on his car. DON'T FALL FOR IT MARI, THEY ARE TRYING TO INTIMIDATE YOU. SHOWS JUST HOW LOW THESE FASCIST BASTARDS WILL GO.

[wryter2000]

32. The more I read

The more I agree. Even if they did call you, they wouldn't be yelling. That isn't professional.

[NoPasaran]

24. Mari

1. By all means get an attorney
2. Who called you? Was it really the Army, or are you being terrorized by wingnuts?
3. You are not subject to military justice. They cannot come after you.

Your friends are here for you Mari :hug:

[Mari333]

34. Okay it was a woman in charge of the Military Readiness Group

Her name is Meghan Dowell and she called and told me her husband was in my sons unit, and to stop sending letters to the editor against the war and she was turning me in to the commandant and that the cammonder was upset with me and would throw my stepson out of the army..then she yelled at my husband and we both told her we had first amendment rights and we can send any letter we damn well please to any newspaper we want
I have her goddamn phone number too!

[rumguy]

44. take action - nt

[playahata1]

45. Just for the hell of it, Mari...

POST this woman's number. Someone should tell her to stick it where the sun don't shine. Hang in there.

[Muddleoftheroad]

49. Don't do that

I'm pretty sure posting private information is a violation of rules.

[cally]

55. Please don't post the number

You may be charged with harassment for that. Don't fall into their trap.

[Career Prole]

53. F**king wingnuts!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

I'm sorry...lost it there for a second...you're fine, Mari. If your nerves can take it. They're just messing with you and their threats are as empty as a bush* promise. Please, take a deeeeep breath. Have a cocktail if you drink. Relax. You're okay, and so is Michael.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

56. Give this all to an attorney

Use the phone numbers given in the post farther down the line. The organization, if there is one, that this creep belongs to doesn't sound like it is part of the Army. The lawyer will know. Have HIM call the creature and tell her a few fine points about the law and about harrassments and the possibility of a civil suit. That should shut her up.

[NoPasaran]

59. The more I think about this

And the more I read from other posters on this thread the more I'm convinced that this is just harassment, not the military at work. You're a very brave woman. I salute you for what you're doing.

[polmaven]

72. What a piece of SCUM!

She should be turned in herself. That, Mari, is called harrassment, and it is illegal. Call the army base where Michael was stationed, or to where he reported, or even call the police.

That you should be subjected to this sort of harrassment is OUTRAGEOUS!

I'm quite sure the Commander of that base is NOT aware of what she has done. If he is, he too should be reported!

ABOMINABLE BEHAVIOR!!!! Report them or it will not stop!

[BeHereNow]

97. Turn HER in Mari.

I do believe the army would be very interested to know
that she has taken it upon herself to represent them and that
she is calling upon other military wives to harass you in their
name.
She is engaged in extremely illegal activities here.
GO FOR IT-
CALL THEM and REPORT HER.
Her husband, not your step son is the one in trouble here.
I know from my brother's ex-wife that the military
does not take kindly to service men's wives engaging
in behaviors that give a bad name or draw attention
to them in a negative way.
She has really screwed up if you take the appropriate
actions and her husband WILL face the music for what
his wife has done here.
BHN

[blondeatlast]

134. I knew someon would have the answer. Sounds sensible.

[mike1963]

73. Report the call to the police, it is obviously a harassing and misrepresen

tation. And it is illegal. There is NO WAY the "Army" can do anything to you or Michael for what you've so courageously done. You don't need lawyers. Some people are just bastards...one of them has tried to jump your shit...tell them to piss up a rope.
:grr:

[wryter2000]

81. Get her, Mari

She's the one in trouble, not you!

:bounce:

[BeHereNow]

99. And her husband too-

He is in deep shit if his wife has falsely represented
her actions as military conduct and policy.
BHN

[blondeatlast]

125. Legal action, of course, and how 'bout another LTE?

We are on your side. Someone is yanking your chain, but don't let this die. this shows what kind of people are supporting the war.

Nasty, evil, sneaky types.

Make it public if you have the moxie (I know you are fighting a tough battle and if you're exhausted, we understand). If not, let DU do it for you.

This is criminal.

[blondeatlast]

131. Definitely not official, IMHO--tell someone (one of our DU vets should be

able to zero in on who) in the Army. If someone is misrepresenting them, I would think they would want to know.

If this is true, so much for the all-volunteer army.

[MadProphetMargin]

132. She should call the Judge Advocate General's office at the nearest

military post.

[twilight]

185. she needs the Adjutant General

I know ... I once worked for the AG in the U.S. Army many years ago ... he has the direct link to the Commanding General. This is who you must contact to verify this. This "wife" or whatever she is and her husband could be in a lot of trouble, believe me. This is not at all acceptable.

GO FOR IT!! BRING 'EM ON!!!!!

:dem: :kick:

[LeahMira]

139. Ah! Well, then...

Her name is Meghan Dowell and she called and told me her husband was in my sons unit, and to stop sending letters to the editor against the war and she was turning me in to the commandant and that the cammonder was upset with me and would throw my stepson out of the army.

This sounds more like some personal thing. What authority does this Military Readiness Group have? Or what authority does this person have?

Yes, a commander can probably make life miserable if he takes a dislike to a particular individual, but at the same time the other men will see the unfairness and do what they can. They, too, have parents.

Meanwhile, though, this person sounds as if she and her messages will be received with the same attention as a pesky mosquito on a summer evening. The army has better things to do than listen to a whiny gossip.

[thinkingwoman]

149. Good for you!

Hang in there and never back down from your right to free speech.

I'd head the speak to a lawyer advice if I were you. See if there is anything you can do to that woman for harrassing you.

[PatGund]

211. I suspect....

That the woman in question is blowing smoke out her ass. She's not in the Service herself, and is trying to harass you to get you to shut up. The ironic thing being is that *if* her husband is in the same unit, she could get her husband in a blortload of trouble for stuff like this - the Army may have a talking to with him to make sure he's not harassing anyone, and he'll not be happy if his wife gets him in trouble with his c/o.

Document, document, document. Get a Caller ID box. And check with your phone company to see if you can do a selective call block on that woman's number.

[DontBlameMe]

27. First, *69 this number and find out if it's legit.

Second, find out exactly what "code" you violated. Your stepson is an adult. He is not liable for your actions. As long as none of the info he has passed to you is "sensitive", this is a bark with no bite.

Third, no matter what, consult an attorney. One who specializes in military affairs.

Chin up! This is probably some asshat prank.

[Sir Craig]

28. Hi, friendly neighborhood military member here...

As a member of the military, a veteran with more than 18 years in, I can assure you that the Army can do nothing to your stepson because of you mentioning his name, and they can certainly do nothing to you, especially if you are civilian. The worst that they can do is investigate his security clearance if you happened to mention some secret mission they were on; otherwise, family members are allowed to mention their kids as much as they want, even if in an anti-war statement.

I have heard of similar scare tactics, and the best defense is to get the name, rank, and outfit of the person making the harassing calls and let them know they will be reported to the Inspector General and your congressperson (it would really help your case if you managed to record or somehow document these calls) - this threat is very effective in shutting someone up, especially if there is some kind of authorization behind it (which I seriously doubt - no commander in his or her right mind would dare pull a stunt like that and jeopardize their career).

I'm guessing that someone not actually associated with any official function within the military is just pulling a lame-ass freeper stunt. If the calls continue after giving them the threat I told you, then (as much as this might rub some people the wrong way here) go to the FBI and claim that someone impersonating military personnel are harassing you, and then it becomes a federal felony offense.

Good luck and my wishes for your stepson's safety...

Peace.

:hippie:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

137. Excellent response/advice.

That was really good. Esp the part about impersonating a military officer.

[Tinoire]

193. Ditto. Except I wouldn't make it a threat. I'd turn her in

A few posts later it's mentioned that she's the head of the support group (which is possibly where she got the phone number; if not there then from someone in the unit who rifled through personnel records). I'd turn her in immediately- what she did is inexcusable.

[Columbia]

30. Impossible

Someone is messing with you. They don't like your politics and found your phone number and are now yanking your chain. There is no way your stepson can receive a dishonorable dischance due to your actions. Report the phone call to the police and try to arrange it so you can have calls traced. You may have a case for harassment.

However, despite this, to protect him from any negative backlash or risk to his or his unit's security, it'd be prudent to refrain from further using his full name or unit designation.

Good luck.

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. Wow

What a wonderful show of DU support against what is obviously some freeper trick.

Good luck to you. This is bound to be stressful, but it's also bullshit.

[enough]

33. Mari, they are trying to intimidate you.

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS!

They cannot officially punish him for someting you have done. They cannot dishonoraby discharge him for your actions. You did not sign an oath when he joined up.

Talk to the ACLU or American Friends Service Committee, etc. and get hold of someone who has experience with this. There are groups who work with enlisted people to help them with legal issues.

Get the name and rank of anyone who speaks to you this way. And let the media know this is happening.



We are all thinking of you and your family, Mari. You are a brave woman.

[localroger]

35. Relax, and prepare

It is very unlikely that this caller is even legitimately from the government. If they call again, tell them that you don't believe they are legitimate and will only accept correspondance by mail or courier in the future. That will weed out the possible Freeper running a gag on you.

In the extremely unlikely event that it isn't some Freeper running a gag on you, smile broadly and hire an attorney. You shouldn't have to go far to find one who will smile right back at you and take your case on consignment so you have no out-of-pocket costs -- any competent attorney will show little flashy dollar signs in their eyes as soon as they hear your story. Since collecting the dollar signs yourself isn't the goal you should feel quite good about pointing the briefcase-carrying shark in the general direction of your annoyance and shouting "Fetch!" It will only bring back only half of the princely sum you're owed for being so abused, but it costs you nothing and more to the point it hurts the butthead who decided this was a good idea.

Legally, even in these days of Retro-Republican rule, YOU are not in the army and YOU can say whatever you like. YOU can even name your son and hold up a poster with his picture at a protest if you want. He has no control over you, so how can they blame him for something you did? (It's true that in Stalinist Russia and Nazi Germany they did, but things aren't quite THAT bad here, yet.)

Indeed, the UCMJ may be lacking in a lot of features we take for granted in civil proceedings, but I can guarantee you it gives no basis for disciplining your kid no matter what you did. And UCMJ lawyers and judges are even more anal-retentive than normal lawyers about the letter of the Code.

Meanwhile if this isn't a practical joke you have a good civil case against whoever is responsible. Come to think of it, if you're willing to pay the lawyer and spend some money chasing it you probably have a good civil case against them even if it IS a practical joke.

[cally]

68. Welcome to DU

You gave some great suggestions.

[blondeatlast]

136. WELCOME TO DU! Great advice; we're glad you found us!

:toast:

[haele]

36. Check with a lawyer first off.

I'm pretty sure they can't go after you for mentioning Michael, nor go after you for talking about any dissatisfaction he might be having in the military. They can threaten all they want, but you didn't sign up and so far, I haven't seen anything that could "give comfort and aid" to the enemy under current First Amendment coverage.
The issue might be with his letters and e-mails, however. Do you have a local ACLU branch that can look over them (I know you saved them) to cover his tail?
Unless he wrote anything specific to troop movement, his writing complaints to you are not against the UCMJ, nor would you voicing concern about them. Otherwise, nine-tenths of the troops since the war of 1812 would have been in serious trouble from the first week they were "deployed". (The tenth that didn't complain were either sociopaths or guys in denial about what they were about to do for the reason they were doing it...)Questioning Authority as well as the mission in letters home is a long-established tradition in all military services.

Again, so long as you have not published troop movements or other classified information, in my experience, you and Michael have done nothing wrong.

This sounds like blowing smoke to try and force you to shut up and march lockstep with the administration position. Consider the ACLU if the Army pursues this.

Haele

[Alenne]

38. You have a better chance of being contacted by God then the military

on a Sunday afternoon. It is not an official call.

[MidwestMomma]

39. Found a legal organization just for your situation on the vaiw.org

This is a link off of Veterans Against Iraq War webpage.

http://www.nlg.org/mltf/

Link description:

National Lawyers Guild Military Law Task Force (NLGMLTF) is an excellent legal support project for military and military families to protect their constitutional rights, particularly the right to speak out.

There's 2 phone number: [phone] and [phone]. Shows San Francisco CA address.

I would call them. You need expertise and if they can't help you, I'm sure they can find someone who can. Good luck. Breathe deeply and call.

[enough]

63. Great advice, MidwestMomma

The National Lawyers Guild is always on the front lines in legal issues.

Mari, this is the group you need.

[Mari333]

111. I called and left them a message

hope they call back tomorrow.

[leftofthedial]

40. I don't think this is legit

I think a freeper is messing with you.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

43. We are all here for you.

I protested the Viet Nam War while my brother was there. He finished out his 20 year military career without any problems because of my activities. Whoever is doing this is harrassing you. Do what the folks have said. Record the call. Trace the call, and get the name, rank, and serial number of the caller. Immediately call your Congressperson and ask for an investigation. Tell the police you are getting intimidating calls, and file a complaint. Then keep on posting your letters to the editor. Start out your next one with a reminder to your readers that every military person takes an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution. Remind them that means you have the right to freedom of speech. And let us know when they've found the creeps who did this....hope they are caught and go to trial!

[Mel]

47. Mari333

I think you've already received good advice. I just wanted you to know that I'm here, concerned, and care. Keep your chin up, give em' hell, and don't let them intimidate you! From what I've read from you I don't think I'm going to worry about them intimidating you! :evilgrin:

[truth2power]

50. Mari...wait a minute

Please, please trace this back if you can, or find smeone who can do it for you. Find out if this was in fact an official army call.

There's something of a huge stench about this. I think you are having an impact and you have pissed someone off...and it ain't the army.

[ikojo]

51. Call the local ACLU

I realize that soldiers, while defending our right to free speech, don't have that same right.

However, you are his stepmother and you are not in the military.

The ACLU should be able to help or else google military families speak out. I think there is a group for military families against the war on Iraq.

Good luck!!


:grouphug:

[Ilsa]

52. I have a family member doing fine with his dishonorable d/c.

He was embarassed and depressed about it, but he's a teacher now, and in hot demand, being treated better than the damn navy SOB's ever did.

I hope it works out for you and Michael, Mari!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

66. I do too

and after what has happened in Iraq, I tell him I thank my lucky stars he was kicked out of the military! He's doing fine too-as a mechanic.

[Columbia]

74. I'm thinking that it was not a true dishonorable

There are many other types of discharges besides dishonorable. A dishonorable discharge implies a felony-type (murder, rape, etc.) offense and conviction. Your family member is unlikely to become a teacher if he had a real dishonorable discharge.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

My relative got a

number/letter discharge for underage drinking. It wasn't exactly dishonorable, but it was enough to keep the military from wanting him again.

[Ilsa]

133. He got railroaded.

He was accused of a recruiting violation. I don't know how they can call that a felony, except that it does involve making the contracts with the new volunteers. The enlisted senior man in charge of him at that station had "reworked" some of the finer details of recruiting to get their numbers up. My family member, instead of keeping his mouth shut and asking for a lawyer, told the truth and got hauled out to military court and was dishonorably discharged. They really worked him over, and his superior got mangled pretty bad too, including brig time. It wasn't a general D/C.

He went back to college and after getting his degree, he took a job making almost nothing teaching children in one of the poorest school districts in Texas. He will be getting a better job at a much better school next year.

[Columbia]

75. Dupe

[Roy]

151. Dishonorable Discharge?

Unless things have changed since I was in the navy in the 60's.
You have to have committed very serious actions to warrant a dishonorable discharge.

There were also varying degrees of discharges, IE. undesirable, bad conduct, other than honorable conditions. Not sure about dishonorable, but most others are a simple matter to request for re-consideration and changed to under honorable conditions.

[Gman]

54. Get a phone tape recorder and Caller ID

if you don't already have it. In some areas you can also get a telephone feature called Call Trace. I believe US government phone calls MUST show up on caller id as US Government. If the caller is showing up as "Unavailable" or "Blocked" or (even worse) "Anonymous", someone is harrassing you. Start recording the phone calls now. I think you've got a case of someone calling and making harrassing calls which your local district attorney can investigate and prosecute. If a GOP district attorney decides not to prosecute, you can take the information from Caller ID, Call Trace and the phone call tapes and file a civil suit.

[tobius]

57. your post is a bit misleading.

if this is an individual, why would you say it was "the army?".

[Mari333]

67. This woman is giving out my number to everyone

and Im getting phone calls today...Ive had 3 call so far saying I have put the 428th MP unit in jeopardy by mentioning in a letter to the editor that my stepson is at Abu Ghuraib prison and is standing there with an M16..they are furious that Im anti war and angry that I spoke out against it..the phone is ringing off the hook..Im shaking with anger and I cannot believe they are screaming at me ...
I need to know my legal rights..I believe I have every right to speak out against this occupation.

[playahata1]

76. You need to call the cops.

If she is giving out your number to everyone, then that is grounds for legal action.

[Columbia]

82. Hmm.. that does seem like too many details

You can't be too careful with Operational Security (OPSEC).

Mentioning so many details was probably not the most prudent action and these family members have the right to be angry. They have just as much stake in their safety as you do and in their eyes, you have possibly endangered them. That is unlikely, but when a loved ones life is at stake, you don't take chances.

[MadProphetMargin]

130. BULLSHIT. Nothing she said would compromise OPSEC. It's not like

the fact that troops are stationed there is a secret.

Nor is the M16 rifle a secret weapon.

[Columbia]

225. Does it matter?

The issue here is that other family members are upset that it possibly could endanger their loved ones.

Whether it truly violates OPSEC, well, we really can't tell unless we see the actual LTTE. I'll say again that when it does come to OPSEC, you cannot be too careful. I would never mention unit locations and guard procedures during a combat situation.

She could have made her same point saying that her son is stationed near Baghdad without mentioning which prison by name and what his billet is. Even if that information is already in the public domain, that doesn't mean she should make it even more available out there.

Regardless of whether of intent, it is obvious that her release of too much information has already put herself in danger as evidenced by the harassing phone calls. This, itself, is precisely why following OPSEC is so important.

[tobius]

84. are people upset that you are anti-war or that you gave out too much

military information that could jeopardize troops?


DISRUPTION AND INAPPROPRIATE POSTINGS
Do not post unpublished information on troop movements, military maneuvers, or any other information which may compromise U.S. national security. http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[Media_Lies_Daily]

196. You need to give it a rest.

[PaDUer]

86. Look in the beginning of your phone book...

you can trace ANY number..the charge here is 50cents and can be activated immediately..there's a code that you dial as soon as you get a call...it goes into the phone company...then call the phone company tomorrow and let them know so they can add some other monitors..I've done this and got the people..
edit--Also, if anyone calls again, tell them you're taping this call and want their permission so make it legal. Guaranteed, they're not going to call anymore.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

87. I'd call the local police and your phone company and file

harassment charges.

This is beyond a practical joke and should be dealt with accordingly. Someone is being very cruel here and I don't think it's the Army or a branch of the military.

Don't worry, be angry.

[bearfartinthewoods]

103. whoa......be careful there

i'm not sure i'd announce my kid was guarding a prison and the locale.
you could be getting phone calls from people worse than you are from the fruitcake.

[kath]

179. I doubt that it's any big suprise that the US military are guarding

a prison.

[bearfartinthewoods]

226. agreed, but the specifics of which men is.

is it so out of line to consider than there may be people in iraq that might be interested in getting people out of that prison? and that one way to accomplish that might be to threathen the families of the guards? i respect mari's right to speak out but i also respect the rights of the other families involved to be concerned about their safety as well.

i can just imagine how a guard would react if someone suddenly showed him a picture of his kids, playing in front of his house. it's a small world afterall.

ON EDIT...i'm just saying that ommiting her son't unit information wouldn't really blunt her message in anyway i can think of and would not intrude on the privacy/security concerns of the other men in the unit.

[lostnfound]

122. I think you need to start recording calls & you need to sue her..

for giving out your phone number and encouraging harassment.

And hang in there. We at DU are with you and proud of you and your passion and your honesty.

The idea that your comments about your stepson endangered the mission seems absurd to me -- Bush's stunt said 'Mission Accomplished', right? We OWN that country now and therefore there shouldn't be anything really secret about your son's location..the US has got it all under control in the land of flower-flinging-free-Iraqis..you could throw that back in their freeper faces. Not that you should really waste your time.

[MadProphetMargin]

127. Mari...here's what you do. Purchase an aerosol air horn (the type that

are used for sporting events, etc), and when you pick up the phone and they start their harrassing, BLAST THEM.

It'll make you feel MUCH better, and will make them think twice before doing it again.

[immoderate]

188. No matter what you may have done...

There is no reason for this person to give out your number so people can harrass you.

They are wrong no matter what. Get the cops after them.

--IMM

[truth2power]

70. Oh for heaven's sake!

synecdoche n. Prosody A figure of speech by which a more inclusive term is used for a less inclusive term or vice versa; for example, head for cattle or the law for a policeman.

edit> reply to Tobius, above.

[playahata1]

71. What does the wording of this post have to do with Mari's situation?

I am certain that we all got the message loud and clear.

[absolutezero]

61. Bullshit

SOme freeper is pulling a sick prank on you.....
call a lawyer, and the police and your senators, find this sicko and sue him for harassment

[madrchsod]

62. smells

like rotten fish..someone is getting upset with you and i agree get a lawyer and contact state and federal representatives . get the persons phone number and tape her conversation if she ever calls back-which i doubt she will.write to the newspaper about what went on-you may find there`s people out there that thinks what is happened to you is bullshit...hang in there.

[grasswire]

88. get caller ID TOMORROW

if you don't have it. And let people you don't know leave messages for you, rather than answer the phone. That way you have them on tape.

[papau]

89. yep - smells

I've gotten the "you're in trouble" messages and they always turn out to be crap.

Even the brief "watching" that the CIA and FBI occasionally do is a big nothing. We at DU are just not that important that it is worth the bad PR. Granted that last years 2 week watch was the first in more than a decade for me, but at the end of the day, nothing happens (and I suspect that watch last year was not because of DU but because I already had a CIA file - a file that says, amusingly, that I am qualified to see "for President's eyes only" crap - or at least did at one time).

I would not be scared - and I would not waste money on a lawyer.

[laruemtt]

85. my very first reaction

when i saw this thread was it's a prank. no way would something like this be done on the phone. no way you have to have your LTEs okayed by the army before being published. but the suggestions for calling carl levin, getting documentation in writing, and dialing *69 are right on. there are some real sickos out there!

[Judi Lynn]

90. Mari333, I read a phenomenal outpouring you wrote to a freeper lurker

who has been harrassing DU'er "boobooday" today, and I noted that the poster has been firing back multiple replies to "boobooday," (as she apparently is reading DU simultaneiously) who also has a website, using her website address.

That freeper hasn't gotten bold enough to bring her beef to DU, where everyone has a chance to address her.

Here's the thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1261638

You did some GREAT communicating on it. I'm wondering, is it possible that the same freeper, since "boobooday" shut down her e-mail and cut her off, may have decided to come after you...

She obviously is a woman with too much time on her hands, and I'll bet if she could, she'd delight in trying to screw someone else around, and you undoubtedly would be on her list, after you got her good!

Just an option to consider.

[MadProphetMargin]

94. This is 99% likely to be true.

The army couldn't give a shit what Mari said.

[MadProphetMargin]

91. They can't touch him. Trust me on this. RELAX.

Some one is bullshitting you.

1. It is not against ANY law or regulation to mention his name "out loud", or the fact that he is in Iraq.

2. YOU are not in the army, and the code of conduct does NOT apply to you.

3. The code of conduct says nothing about mentioning what country someone is in, unless that person is operating secretly. The war in Iraq is not secret. Even then, they would have to prove that HE leaked the info.

4. Even IF this caused him trouble, the army would not call you. They would speak to HIM.

5. You are being trolled by some asshole freeper. Relax.

[BiggJawn]

93. Call the Police, Mari....

A crime has been committed here. It is illegal for somebody to call you and threaten you like that.
Let's see....intimidation, making a threatening TX, impersonating military personell (you DID think it WAS the Army at first, right?)

This woman, in the name of FREEP-dom, has stepped in it big-time. About like "you need to shut the fuck up about Bush because we got kids DIEING in Eye-Rack for your FREEDOM!"

Call the cops. Hell, they'll prolly try to arrest you, since they're all Freepers, but you gotta do it.

[Mari333]

106. I Called the Police

I have all the numbers of people that called me...they are angry because I mentioned in the letter to the editor that my stepson is in the 428th MP company in Bagdhad at Abu Ghuraib prison..they said thats top secret..I said BULLSHIT its NOT if it was why would my stepson and the rest of you all be sending packages to that place? and why would they be emailing me thats where they are?
They said I jeopardized his unit..these were other family members of his unit calling me, I have figured that out now.
I called the cops and I have their numbers..I will also call the Lawyers guild..
One woman told me "YOU ANTI WAR PERSON HOW DARE YOU THE TERRORISTS KNOW WHERE OUR SOLDIERS ARE NOW"
I said "MADAME THE SOLDIERS ARE ALREADY IN FRONT OF ABU GHURAIB PRISON AND EVERYONE KNOWS THAT INCLUDING THE TERRORISTS"
then she told me the "general public" has no right to know this

I called the cops, I gave them the numbers who called me, they are calling them now

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

108. I would report it to the commanding officer

and also to your Senator. I don't think the CO was invovled with this, and obviously the cops view it as harrassment. Let us know if the calls keep coming now that the cops are involved.

[mike1963]

109. So it's okay if the "terists" know, but the "general public" isn't allowed

to?

What kind of absymally stupid fuckwad is that person????????

jeezusfuckingchrist...
:grr:
:eyes:
:grr:

[Columbia]

113. It may not be classified information

But it's also not something that these family members are comfortable having out there.

You guys are all in the same boat and it would behoove you to consider their concerns as you would want them to consider yours as well.

[Postman]

145. You're not jeopardizing his unit.

That's just mind-control tactics to keep people's mouths closed.

I'm sure you realize they are only concerned about getting their loved ones back home alive too but they have to understand this...

Your not giving troop strengths, deployment numbers. And if the "terrorists" don't know by now that soldiers carry M-16's then they are in a world of hurt.

Stay cool. File charges.

Don't let the fascists win.

[Timefortruth]

147. The terrorists know Americans are guarding Baghdad at Abu Ghuraib prison,

that prisons are guarded is hardly a national security secret, so how would terrorists learning the name of a particular soldier there put anyone in peril. The terrorists could walk up to these guys and ask them their names. This is nonsense.

Turn on your answering machine with a new message saying that "The one right that you value most as an American is freedom of speech. Callers who wish to prevent me from exercising that most precious right should hang up now." Then advise them that there are criminal penalties for harassment and stalking and you will aggressively pursue criminal prosecution of each caller.

Then take all the good advice you've received from everyone here.

[Mari333]

162. I have been answering the phone

and saying HELLO THIS IS MRS BROWN , CENTER FOR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, HOW CAN I HELP YOU?
the phone calls have stopped. I think the police have gotten to them
I called the National Lawyers Guild. I also will call the commandants office if I can find the number. Im also calling Levins office tomorrow. This woman will rue the day she called me and gave out my phone number.

[Yemp4734]

204. I only have one question

was he ORDERED NOT to tell anyone about his assignment? If not, then I don't even see why anyone is upset at all. If so, there is legit reason people would be upset. (and if so, it doesn't matter if it was public knowledge already. an order is an order)

[Mari333]

217. No everyone knows where the 428th are its even in a news story today

in south bend...I am beginning to realize these women were mad because I am anti war. But they overstepped their bounds, they had no right to give out my phone number to anyone and call me and harass me..they are the Military Family Readiness Group, a Group thats supposed to be there FOR the families, not to call them and harass them if they are anti war.
I will send a letter to Carl Levin, and I will get this woman in trouble. I will not be silenced.

[jmowreader]

95. You have to do something fairly severe to get a dishonorable

Note the word "you." You as in "the servicemember." Not the servicemember's mother, or stepmother in this case.

You (as in you the stepmother) can't have violated the "Army code" because you're not in the Army.

Call her. Immediately. Preferably at three in the morning. Inform her that if she tries this shit again, you'll call her base housing office and get her thrown out of quarters. Then call your senators.

I seriously doubt she even called the commander. Anyone can say "the commander's really pissed at you." The only way I can think of that merely mentioning that Michael was in Iraq could cause an Operational Security problem is if he was a special operator on some sort of secret mission, and those kinds of missions aren't being run in Iraq at this time. They did run them in Afghanistan, but we're not talking Afghanistan.

I'd call this woman's commander, tell him what she told you, and watch the fun.

[Pobeka]

98. Did she represent herself as the U.S. Army -- maybe she's in real trouble?

I have *no clue*, but are there laws similar to impersonating a police officer, i.e. impersonating a military officer?

Hang in there, we're all upset with this too.

:grouphug:

[MadProphetMargin]

102. Yes there are...but unless the person offered actual credentials, good

luck PROVING anything.

[BeHereNow]

104. ABSOLUTELY!

I believe it is a felony.
Her husband is in DEEP shit if Mari documents and
takes this to HIS commander.
GET HER MARI.
If you take her down and her husband is reprimanded
the other wives will be terrified to harrass you any further.
The military DOES expect their members to discourage
their spouses from engaging in illegal behaviors.
My brother lost his pension 6 months before his
retirement due to his wife's activities.
He had been warned several times about the
negative impact she was having on their reputation.

BHN

[Room101]

114. Buy a cheap recorder to record the phone conversations

Get a cheap recorder and ask for the accessory to record phone conversations. If this person is impersonating a Military officer I’m sure that’s illegal. Continue being brave and strong your step- son is going through worse. We all wish we were there with you, to stand up to these fucking BROWN SHIRTS.

[Pobeka]

140. BHN - check your PM!! n/t

[Mari333]

116. Yes she said she represented the army!!

and I was so taken aback..no one has my number, she said "this has reached the commandants office and the generals office and you have broken the army code"
I said "Bullshit..I have First Amendment rights and I have spoken out against the war and my stepson is at Abu Ghuraib prison in Baghdad and so is your husband and its okay to say that every one of us knows that and many people know it its not some top secret mission and Im against this war and if you dont like what I said write your own goddamned letter to the newspaper"
Oh well!! Im drinking now!!!! Im not kidding!!! I called the cops and tomorrow Im calling the goddamn commandants office!
They are trying to shut me up and I wont allow it! Michael approves of what Im doing and Ill keep doing it whether these idiots like it or not!

[Lars39]

123. I can't even imagine the stress you and Hogarth are under right now.

You've done what you can do today...rest now. Tomorrow will come soon enough. Big hugs to you both.
Lars

[Mari333]

141. Yes she said she was calling as a representative of the US army

and that the general and the commandant of the army are furious with me and that they will throw my stepson out of the unit for my letter to the editor...and that I had no right to send it..and then she told me that I was not allowed to send letters to the editor without army approval..
I told her to read the fucking constitution.
God Im still shaking.
I guess this is what happens when you speak out.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

105. Get your local phone company and/or long distance carrier to help...

...you find out exactly who called and from where. If they are impersonating anyone in the military while making this kind of harrassing phone call, it is they who will be in big trouble.

Additionally, please do not stop telling us what's going on...I have an 18 year old daughter who just started college and I am very concerned that the military draft will be reactivated mid-next year.

[analogman]

110. Somebody is pulling your leg.

The Army doesn't call to threaten families, they don't throw people out for opinions expressed by the soldier's family, they certainly don't give dishonourable discharges for such nonsense, and no one is coming after you.

Someone is seriously messing with you.

[analogman]

135. You've been snookered by someone who knows you but doesn't like you.

You're being messed with.

[peekaloo]

112. Try and contact Amy Goodman @democracynow.org

someone's yanking your chain, I suspect.

[welshTerrier2]

117. free speech issue

if you are not in the army, you are not obligated to follow the "army code" ...

don't let them shut you up under any circumstances ... plenty of families with loved ones in Iraq have spoken out ... if they want to throw your kid out of the army with a dishonorable discharge, you have my sincere congratulations ... they have no right whatsoever to issue a dishonorable discharge to your stepson because of your conduct ... but if they do, i think he'll be much better off than being stationed in Iraq ...

my advice? give the ACLU a call in the morning ... the bastards are trying to frighten you so that you'll shut up ... don't let them get away with that ...

[Rex]

118. UCMJ has no laws against relatives or parents speaking out

against the Army. Whoever called you is full of shit and probably not even in the Army. Call your local CONGRESS PERSON, tell him/her what happened. This is intimidation and whoever did it might be breaking some civil laws. Find out who it is, sue their ass! Hang tough, you got 40k DUrs backing ya up Mari!

[LeahMira]

120. What would you say if this were happening to someone else?

You would tell them to get in touch with a lawyer. Now. Yeah, on Sunday even.

You would tell them to write down times, dates, names and exact words.

You would tell them to get in touch with a veterans against the Iraq war group in your area.

You would tell them to stay calm.

This sounds fishy to me. How can YOU violate the army code? You are not in the army. But in this present atmosphere, who knows?

If someone wants to shut you up, you must be doing something to make that someone nervous. That's good, but now you do have to take care of yourself. Do NOT keep quiet out of fear. The more people who know about this, the safer you really are. They can be looking out for you.

[G_j]

129. I'm not sure if this will help but

this is a website concerned with 'resistance' in the miltary.

http://www.citizen-soldier.org/

and the friends service committee/quakers may be of help, (don't have the web addresses at hand)

[citizen snips]

138. Call a lawyer.

You are only exercising your constitutional rights

[supernova]

143. Get a restraining order for this nutcase woman!

Seriously, ask the court for a restraining order for harassing phone calls. This person has no right to publish your info without your consent. Even if she never contacts you again, you have the harrassment documented.

That's the only other thing I can think to add to the wealth of info so far. I especially like the Legal Guild for military families. Hope you get a good response from them tomorrow. I wouldn't go further without legal advice.

Mari333, I'll keep you and your family in my thoughts. But, DON"T EVER GIVE UP!

[MadProphetMargin]

146. Naw. Get an aerosol air horn, and blow her eardrums out the next time

she (or any other nutjob calls about this).

It's the only type of thing they understand.

[supernova]

152. Well, there's that

But Mari also needs legal counsel to handle this, plus the base commanders as other have mentioned.

If you can't be helpful, go to the Lounge and goof off.

[MadProphetMargin]

153. As *I* also mentioned. But base commanders aren'tt going to do shit. She

needs to talk to the Judge Advocate General's office.

As for your suggestion, you can fuck right off, mister.

[supernova]

160. Right back at ya!

:P

[revcarol]

173. The police SOMETIMES recommend this for harrassing calls.

It stops them, but then there is no phone record of the trace the phone company made.

[MadProphetMargin]

174. Then it's a test...your patience versus their eardrums.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

148. What is this "Military Readiness Group?" Sounds like some kind

of spouse/family support organization. In that case, it's not the military, but it MAY have a loose affiliation with the military through a base MWR (Morale, Welfare, Recreation) organization, a government/Department of Defense funded entity with counselling for spousal abuse, financial crises etc.

Who is the leadership of the group? I hope it's not this woman. If not, they need to be made aware of this harassment. I would let the local base commander know about this as well. The woman at minimum is misrepresenting herself, harrassing you, and using her phone list with the organization to amplify the harrassment through others. She has your number because you used to attend meetings of this group, right? And because they don't like your politics, here's how they provide their "support". It needs to be made an issue with the base commanding officer, most bases have a "Public Affairs Officer" who can be contacted and will be sure to notify the command structure because they certainly don't want this kind of unpleasantness. If you get a lot of interference from this angle, ask to speak directly with the Executive Officer (2nd in command) of the base, they are usually tasked with bringing such unpleasant news to the boss and "solving" the problems...

The "Military Readiness Group" is already discrediting itself through these Nazi tactics. If the group is in any way funded by or affiliated with the government/DOD they are risking their organization and support by this behavior. Not to mention the potential for legal action from you. Disgusting that they would group call you like this. Definitely call the police as you have done, and I think the advice about screening your calls and recording them all on an answering device is a good one. Sucks if you don't usually work that way though.

Also, consider feeding this story, along with the names of the harrassers, to your local news media, print or broadcast, along with the taped screechings of the harrassers.

I thought we still lived in America and not Nazi Germany...

[Mari333]

154. Its a group of the wives of the guys in my sons unit

and they are mad at me for sending a local newspaper a letter speaking out against the war..Im calmer now..sorry...the woman who called told me she was in charge of telling the other family members what they could and could not say
she told me she was in charge of telling me that the army code had been violated, that she had contacted the general and commandant about me speaking out against the war, that I had no right to mention my stepson or his unit, that I was a traitor, that I was not allowed to send letters to the paper unless I checked with her first..I told her to shove it, basically and that I had every right to send any letter I wanted to
she told me my son would be dishonourably discharged because of my letters and then she told me he was in big trouble
she is just some wife of some guy in the unit my stepson is in
Im calmer now..I realize she is an asshole and has no power..
I gave her number to the cops and hopefully they will call her.
The cops agreed with me by the way.

[Qanisqineq]

163. Mari... I feel for you

I really don't know what they can or cannot do, so I won't offer any advice that might be totally wrong. I just want to offer my support.

I once had a screaming match with one of my husband's sergeants and said some of the nastiest things I've ever said in my life. In the end I told him he better not take it out on my husband and he said there was nothing he could do about it, I had a right to say whatever I want, wherever I want, as long as it wasn't top secret.

My husband has always told me to say what I want, participate in any anti-war event that I want and if they try to use it against him, he would rather suffer the consequences than let me lose my rights to free speech.

[Mari333]

167. Tolania I asked Michael if he minded me speaking out

and he said go ahead! Please do! he backs me up 100%...this woman that called made it sound like he would be harassed for my speaking out..she was very cruel...and then to give out my number to other people...and my husband is sick enough as it is..people calling me and yelling at us for speaking out..
I know now she is meaningless..what she has done is make me speak out EVEN MORE
they truly messed with THE WRONG PERSON IM NOT KIDDING
she also told me this "why in the world would you send a letter against the war and make our army look bad..I had an article in the news today about my husband in the unit and it made him and me look patriotic"
I told her LISTEN MADAME, I DONT SPEAK OUT AGAINST THIS WAR TO GET PRESS I SPEAK OUT AGAINST IT BECAUSE ITS WRONG AND I DONT ASSAUGE MY OWN EGO OR LIVE IN DENIAL OR PRETEND ITS A LEGAL WAR IF YOU DO THATS FINE, WRITE YOUR OWN GODDAMN LETTER TO THE NEWSPAPER
She started yelling at me and so I hung up.

[librechik]

175. good! this kind of slanderous witchhunt must never be tolerated

in the US. You have done the right thing, Mari--stand up to them--you have a right to do that and they have no right to threaten you.

Hang in there! God bless you!

[Mari333]

183. Yes shes the leader of the military readiness group

I just looked at my stepsons papers..shes actually in charge of the "support group"
I guess if you dont agree with them the support group calls you and harasses you

[immoderate]

191. I'm glad that you have it together...

...enough to keep on standing up. They are scary people, or they mean to be.

I am also proud (though I think pride is a sin) that you were helped by the good people of DU.

Way to go, folks!

--IMM

[jeanmarc]

150. I think this is a con job

Get names out of these assholes. And then recontact the asshole with the name. I have a feeling either someone is impersonating a real person, or they'll just make one up. Either way, you can find out what the hell is going down.

[AP]

155. I can't imagine any scneario by which something you said could

be held against your son.

I'm sure they're just trying to scare you.

Call the ACLU -- this seems to be a free speech issue, and I'm sure they'd love to look into it.

[AP]

156. By the way, in situations like this, when people accuse you of violating..

...the "code," always ask for specific citations to the code you've allegedly vioalted.

[Padraig18]

161. Tell them to GET FUCKED and call the ACLU *immediately*

Those assholes can NOT threaten you OR your son for your exercise of your 1st Amendment rights! Call your Congressman and BOTH Senators, right after yopu call the ACLU. :grr:

[Junkdrawer]

164. Returning soldiers telling the truth about what is happening in Iraq...

that HAS to be the Chimp's worst nightmare. I'm guessing "they" are doing everything in their power, from preemptive propaganda to outright intimidation.

As they say, get their badge number (e.g., get names, make people go on record), and meanwhile, contact the ACLU.

[tobius]

165. look, if your antiwar and are wanting your voice to be heard, you

are protected. But, be careful mixing in troop location info even if innocuous because the families of soldiers there have loved ones in the line of fire and may think you are purposefully trying to cause an incident. Again you have the right to speak and talk about publicly known military info, but look at your reaction to the legal spread of your phone number ( if it is publicly listed ). People here are riled up that your # is being spread around for potential misuse,- it goes both ways.

[Mari333]

168. Abu Ghuraib prison is all over the news

Its not top secret....these family members are only mad at me because I mentioned it and they think the general public has no right to know about it..for petes sake its on the news all the time..
and there are US soldiers in front of it..
Obviously these other families are angry their sons and loved ones are there..but they can take it out on Bush and leave me alone...its not Top Secret...its a fact anyone can find
I wont be their scapegoat...but I will call the commandants office tomorrow and sue the shit out of them for this thats for sure..
NO one and I mean NO ONE is allowed to fuck with my right to free speech.

[tobius]

169. is your phone number top secret? why do you want to sue the

commandants office, were they the ones that called you? who is fucking with your right to free speech?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

210. You sound like you're trying to intimidate her, too...

...isn't that what you're trying to do, tobius?

[tobius]

220. no, it's possible that emotions are getting in the way here.

I don't want her number, I'm trying to point out that there are people who will be mirror images of her fear on the other side when military information is given out. She says that it is public knowledge so they should get over it, I am illustrating that if her phone number is listed and she gave her name in an oped, it also is public knowledge.

The intimidation is coming from people running on pure emotion like the other responder to my last post. I support any person or organization raisng issues of any kind, free speech is the bedrock of our system of government and would accept no shutting down of this freedom. A phone call from an individual is hardly govt censorship, but any violations of law should be punished.

I imagine from some of the anger generated from this thread that the person who called her may feel some intimidation from the very people here who are decrying the tactic as soon as they get their hands on her number.

[Name removed]

218. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tobius]

221. your contributions are always very perspicacious.

just an impression.

[Room101]

170. If they call you a "traitor" call then a "NAZI" plant those seeds /nt

.

[Vadem]

171. Mari, call the press, now! and get a lawyer immediately! ...

we know you can defend yourself and your stepson against these outrageous charges! We're all behind you! Just call us when you need help!

[BabsSong]

176. Report it to your Senator or Representative if Democratic and if

not, report it to one of the leading Democrats. Call their offices, etc. and have them investigate. It sounds like you have been a victime of the Limbaugh type crowd and not real military----but then, again, with this Nazi regime, who knows. Get in contact with one of these people for protection.

[radwriter0555]

177. Call the ACLU please.

You have the right to free speech.

[roguevalley]

181. Mari, first {{{HUGS!}}} If that is the way she phrased her spiel, she's a

phony. Chances are they would have, if it really and truly
was legal sent you a letter. A phone call on a sunday with
spewel like what you said is balderdash.

Someone in your son's unit's family group got a hair up her
ass. I am sure it is an officer's wife. They are about as
dumb and barbie mindless as it gets.

Do what they tell you to do, honey. You doing it will prevent
it from not only happening again, but it will save some young
girl who did the same thing from dying of fright if this horse
face does it again.

Dimwitted bag. Hugs, honey. Your son should be so lucky to get
to come home, dishonorable discharge or not. He will get home
because you love him enough to breach the status quo and fight
for his life. Hugs to all of you, honey.

[tobius]

195. Nice, smearing all women married to officers. Very classy. nt

[Media_Lies_Daily]

199. And what's with all of the pics in your sig line? Is that the way...

...you always think about women?

[tobius]

202. that is bettie page, an icon for many feminist women. nt

[Media_Lies_Daily]

209. But how are YOU using the pics, that's the real question here, isn't it?

[tobius]

213. I think she is a fascinating part of American culture, an extremely

important part of the fight for women to own their own sexuality and be a strong woman in the puritanical 50's. She has made a comeback recently from her heyday in the fifties with movies like The Rocketeer and artists like Dave Stevens rediscovering her. Bonnie Yeager did some great work back then as one of the few women in professional photography. I have cropped the photos so they would be tasteful and believe that she is a person who has not received the level of acclaim she deserves. Glad you asked. here is a great site for more info- http://www.bettiepage.com/community/links.html

Annotation

The ultimate girl-next-door, and one of the most popular Playboy centerfolds, Bettie Page challenged the conservative 1950s, posing as a fierce dominatrix, and earning both a cult underground following and a Senate Committee investigation. This book chronicles Page's life and career, telling the incredible story of a woman who has left an indelible mark on the history of popular culture. 500 photos.

 From the Publisher http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?sourceid=00002484168171771874&ISBN=1575440806&bfdate=03-21-2004+22:59:16

Bettie Page--the most celebrated pin-up model ever--can seduce a whole new audience in this paperback edition of the hardcover bestseller--the only Bettie Page book authorized by and featuring a Foreword by Page herself. "Forget Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield. Unlike her highly polished, peroxided rivals for 1950s pin-up fame, Bettie Page had something else".--"New York Times". 500 photos, many in color. Size 288 pp. (Biography)
 Synopsis

Although Bettie Page was the greatest American pin-up and an icon who influenced contemporary style and fashion, she purposely vanished from the media for forty years. This is the ultimate, revealing chronicle of her life and career, exclusively authorized by her and including 500 superb color and black-and-white images.

[Bridget Burke]

229. Then why did you abandon Bettie Page'?

You're defending yourself for using her image--not that I think it needs defending.

But you've removed Bettie & added the ugly clowns. So, even you can be intimidated.

[Vadem]

205. She wasn't "smearing all the wives of officers", just the bitch

who threatened her. Wake up to what is happening in this country!

[tobius]

206. Did you even read what she wrote?

"I am sure it is an officer's wife. They are about as
dumb and barbie mindless as it gets"

[Vadem]

207. and may I say, not smearing her, just telling her ....

what her (Mari's) rights are and what she will not put up with, such as muzzling her First Amendment rights!

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

180. opsec rules

While you are probably being targeted because of your outspokedness AGAINST the bs, their are clear cut rules about what may or may not be said. When my nephew was on a ship during the Afghanistan mess, I never even mentioned his last name.. with the internet especially. If the enemy knows where he is stationed, and he were to become a POW, they could simply do internet searches and psychologically use family names/members info against him. It really is for everyones safety, yours included. That is where the term "loose lips sink ships" came from.

OPSEC requires the active participation of every single service member regardless of his or her rank or job and their spouses and family members. What seems innocent or insignificant can in fact be a piece of a much larger puzzle.

Don’t discuss future destinations or ports of call!

Don’t discuss future operations or missions!

Don’t discuss dates and times of when we will be in port or conducting exercises!

Don’t discuss readiness issues and numbers!

Don’t discuss specific training equipment!

Don’t discuss people’s names and billets in conjunction with operations!

Don’t speculate about future operations!

Don’t spread rumors about operations!

Don’t assume the enemy is not trying to collect information on you so he can kill you, he is!

[nostamj]

182. mari... so sorry to read this

you know I support and respect your activism.

I've sent the FACTS about this thread to WillPitt/truthout (and I have no doubt he's looking into it.)

i think you've had a lot of great support/guidence from this thread.

no one needs to tell YOU to stand strong. you and your husband have serious backup. and we draw strength from your activism.

a hug and good night.

nost

[WilliamPitt]

187. Take a deep breath, Mari. READ THIS.

and remember that you did nothing wrong. You did nothing wrong. I'd be really interested in seeing the Army code you violated. I don't think it exists.

Now look here:

===

Military Families Speak Out is an organization of people who are opposed to war in Iraq and who have relatives or loved ones in the military. We were formed in November of 2002 and have contacts with military families throughout the United States, and in other countries around the world.

As people with family members and loved ones in the military, we have both a special need and a unique role to play in speaking out against war in Iraq. It is our loved ones who are, or have been, or will be on the battlefront. It is our loved ones who are risking injury and death. It is our loved ones who are returning scarred from their experiences. It is our loved ones who will have to live with the injuries and deaths among innocent Iraqi civilians.

If you have family members or loved ones in the military and you are opposed to this war, join us. Send us an e-mail at [e-mail] .

http://www.mfso.org

===

I will reach out to these people on your behalf tomorrow.

[vetwife]

190. Marie calm down..You still have freedom of speech ! It wont' work

I just talked to my husband who is x military and they are if they are who they say they are....using scare tactics. You son is your son and your son did nothing to violate their code and you are not in their army. Guilt by association..I don't think so ! Call Tom Harkin...Or Kennedy....Harkin is ex Vietnam and on the armed forces committee. Call Sen.Joe Biden. This is pure and simple BS.....

[nostamj]

197. mari... I agree with Armanda and Will

take a deep breath. they have nothing and you must not be intimidated.

this tide will turn in your (and our) favor.

[Mari333]

198. I just talked to Nancy at mfso

thanks..she called me and said it happened to her and her husband too...other people in units calling military families who speak out against the war and harass them..she told me to write Levins office about it, and maybe make this into a new story.
I will.
Ill send Levin a letter and then send that letter right back to the newspaper I sent the first letter against the war to.
I will not be intimidated..Now I will speak out even more.

[Selwynn]

194. Contact the ACLU Immediately for starters!

They can at the very least help you know your rights and possibly work with you for legal representation.

Sadly you only have two choices now: capitulate or fight back. You won't be able to keep doing what you're doing (speaking out) without fighting back for your rights.

With a heavy heart, I wish you the best of luck..

[Octafish]

200. You are entitled to say what you want, Mari333!

Threats against you by the Army come from above. Bush and Rove are afraid for people to speak out because the truth is not on their side.

Keep stating what you want. And you tell the Army that this is a FREE COUNTRY. And not only can you say whatever you want, even if your son is in uniform, you intend to even if he's out of uniform.

Should the Army threaten him for what you say, you're going to call a certain lawyer who is not afraid of handling tough cases. If that don't put the fear of We the People, this lawyer I'm thinking of certainly will.

[democrank]

203. First things first....

Take a deep breath. Remember that you have rights. The Army can not take action against your stepson for something you said or for your anti-war position. Someone is trying to scare you into being quiet. Don`t get into a shouting match with the callers, just make a plan and stick to it.

Keep a log of the calls. Take notes. Contact a representative in Washington that you know will be courageous and stand with you, not one who will just give you lip service to shut you up. Contact an organization like Veterans Against the Iraq War, Veterans for Peace, tell them what happened and ask for advice. If the calls continue or if you are being harassed in any other way, contact your police department and the ACLU.

These folks calling you can not define who and what you are unless you let them. Don`t. You have rights. Here`s a hug from Vermont....

[Pobeka]

215. UNITED WE STAND, DISSENTLESS WE FALL.

Mari,

I thank you for your loud dissent.

Many of those who oppose you now will eventually apologize.

You are in the right. You are fighting the good fight.

[Catherine Vincent]

216. It could be a freeper harassing you.

That's what it sounds like. They have probably been tracking your messages on DU and some kind of way received personal info on you.

[Sparky McGruff]

219. A simple thing to do when you think someone may be yanking your chain...

Tell them you are busy (just stepped out of the shower, a pie is burning in the oven, whatever), and tell them you'll call them back in 20 minutes. Ask for their name and phone number.

Always good to know for sure who you're talking to. Useful for angry phone calls, also good on April 1st.

My hunch is that you're getting a call from someone without any authority to do anything, who is just trying to intimidate you into shutting up.

[vetwife]

222. Marie All of us are getting threats...We won't shut up..they are scared

Marie, all of us foot soldiers against this war are facing these wingers everyday. You will be fine. You are in the spotlight now.
Guy James, Stern, Malloy, Dixie Chicks,Wilson, myself, military families speak out, dissenters of just about any kind are feeling the blunt and it does take courage to do what most of all of us here are doing. But we cannot shut up. If we do..We lose America. Hang in there and know you are in good company. Think about it. This administration is scared to death ! They are not used to having we passive folks speak up and speak out and taking it back ! You got what it takes and you got us backing you up !

We knew it was going to get ugly but every cause has a price to be paid and think of Ghandi, MLK and the freedom fighters. They faced this junk and more every single day. We are at war with these people but we are right and we will prevail. Truth is prevailing right now and they got more fires to put out than ours. They got Richard Clark, Paul O'Neill, Joe Wilson, and the list goes on of some heavy ex employees of this bunch. They got to concentrate on them now. We are small potatoes compared to former Bush people but we must focus and keep speaking the truth. I got ya covered as well as everyone on this board. We will shine lights as bright as we can on you. Don't let this thing stop you..Holler louder !

[struggle4progress]

224. CALL THE POLICE. REPORT A THREAT.

CALL THE NEWSPAPERS. CALL FRIENDS.

[deportivoI]

227. How Can They

Threaten a soldier because of what his mom says or thinks? Sounds like total fascism to me.

:wtf:

[IrateCitizen]

228. They have no legal basis for this, and are trying to intimidate you

About 1 month ago, I attended a military law workshop at the NY Law School. The key speaker was an attorney who has been practicing military law for over 25 years.

What he told us was that all of UCMJ is founded in Title X of the US Code. In short, if it doesn't exist in Title X, it has no meaning in UCMJ. Contrary to popular belief, the only curtailment of free speech within Title X when you enter the military is that you are not allowed to present your views as being those of the United States military. Aside from that, you ARE completely free to dissent within the public discourse as any other citizen.

My advice to you, Mari, is to do two things. First, get a lawyer. One place you might start looking is to find any Quakers in your area, as you will quite often find Quaker attorneys willing to do pro-bono work on these kinds of issues. I have two attorneys in this capacity right now. Second, once you have obtained legal representation, you might want to consider calling a press conference to highlight this abuse of power and act of illegal intimidation. The Army is counting on scaring you into silence. Don't let them do so, as they have no legal basis for it.

I hope this helps, and Godspeed.