Why do Americans relish ignorance and stupidity?

[playahata1]

This is a piggyback off my most recent post. It just irks the hell out of me that Americans think the whole world revolves around them and what they claim to believe. They don't give a damn about anything and anyone else. They think that what they think this country is all about is right, and that all other human beings would do well to follow. Why?

[Mr.Green93]

1. what should they think?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[playahata1]

3. not all.

But most, in my experience.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[playahata1]

6. I am an American citizen.

Are you?

[tobius]

5. that statement can describe the overwhelming majority

of people in any political party.

[uberotto]

7. It provides them with a...

Sense of Security and of Self Importance. Most people would rather be happy not knowing the truth, than to be miserable trying to deal with reality.

And here's a little reality for you; it has been this way since the beginning of recorded history, and it is never going to change. Letting yourself get all worked up about it isn't going to help.

[achtung_circus]

8. It's called American Exceptional ism

and I believe it is to a large part engendered by the oceans that insulate North America from the rest of the world. That, plus North America is large enough to offer a wide variety of experiences without the tiresome need to visit some place full of furriners.

It's helped along by the fact that the US has been a magnet for talented people from all over the world. This makes the US the source of so much innovation, sometimes weirdly so. IE the telephone was not invented by a Scot (Bell, but open to argument) or the helicopter a Russian (Sikorsky, also open to debate).

Again, not all Americans, not by a long shot, but enough to perpetuate the stereotype.

[snoochie]

9. It's what we're taught to do

Look at school. Smart kids = nerds. Jocks = kool kids.

Life doesn't change much after high school, it seems. :(

[Newsjock]

10. Because the American Dream is lost for many

For the many Americans who have been passed by while the rich become richer, the great dream of bettering oneself through education and hard work is now merely a fiction.

The reaction? They give up and give in to the new Era of Diminished Expectations. No more manufacturing jobs? Why learn the skill? Tech jobs disappearing, too? Why get that degree? Even if I get a job now, it's just going to move to India or China or Mexico within a few years, so what's the point?

So we cling to a fiction -- the fiction that our 4% of the world's population is the only 4% that matters. We live in the past, when American innovation and excellence were facts and not fantasies. We scream louder in order to shout down anyone who may differ with us.

That's what this election is about. The winning candidate will find a way to connect with these disaffected people -- many of whom are so disaffected and tuned-out that they can't even locate Washington, D.C., on a map of the nation -- and give them a reason to hope once again.

The big question: How will that connection be made? The Republican candidate believes in casting the United States as the world's bully, the 3,000-pound gorilla who you'd better not mess with, or else you'll get your butt kicked. The Republican candidate believes that Americans will respond to their primal, feral, anti-intellectual urges.

The Democratic candidate must find a way to connect on a more humane and humanistic level. And that's not an easy job, particularly in the face of a hostile media. But it's essential. Because, for all the talk about the "culture wars" that the Republicans love to play, there is a culture war going on here. The culture of personal responsibility, innovation, education, and humanity that made America great -- that's a culture that's rapidly vanishing, and it's a culture that the Democrats must wholeheartedly embrace and effectively sell to a disenchanted, disaffected, disgruntled American people.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. I don't think they relish it any more than a fish relishes water

it is just a condition of life for some.

[EstimatedProphet]

12. Eddie Izzard calls it the ROW

or "Rest Of World"
We do have an unfortunate tendency to believe that we are the center of the universe, and we kind of expect the ROW to cater to us. I have a gut feeling that it's come from WWII, and our inflated sense of importance about our role in it.
What really sickens me is our reaction to the bombing in Spain. This is a national tragedy for Spain, and our media is trying to turn it into being about us! It's disgusting! How would we feel if another country tried to make themselves more important using 911?

[Isome]

13. Not all, but too many... definitely!

Why? I suppose because it's easier to not know and not care about anything that you don't think affects your immediate needs.

[robcon]

14. The condescension in this topic is tough to take.

I think the post reflects more on the author than on "Americans."

[sir_captain]

18. I'm with you, robcon

I don't think it's right to reduce any group of people like that. It's just as bad as when some non-Kerry supporters over in GD:2004 were calling the Dem primary voters ignorant and stupid.

People all over the world are flawed. The idea that Europeans, or Africans, or those from the Middle East, or wherever, are somehow morally superior to Americans is just silly.

In terms of people around the world "following us" I do think there is a reason that most of the world's democracies are patterned in some fashion after our constitution. American democracy is arguably the most successful and egalitarian governmental system in the history of the world. Of course, we should always be striving to make ourselves and our country better, and to keep snakes like Bush out of our White House, and that's why DU is such a great place.

[dpibel]

24. But what is your response to the original post

Would you please point me to the part of the original post which posits that people elsewhere are morally superior to Americans? I've looked and I've looked, but I just can't find it.

Do you disagree with the statement that Americans believe the world revolves around them? A great president once said, "The American way of life is not negotiable" (George H.W. Bush). Don't you think most Americans agee with that proposition? But why is the American way of life justification for roaming about the world extracting cheap goods from cheap labor (or, in the case of China, slave labor), and rambling about unseating leaders of other countries because we don't like them or their policies?

As to your belief that "most of the world's democracies are patterned in some fashion after our constitution," you might do well to read How Democratic is the American Constitution?, by Robert Alan Dahl. The information in the book could be surprising to you. You might discover that most of the other democracies in the world have constitutions quite different from the US Constitution.

Then there's your statement that "American democracy is arguably the most successful and egalitarian governmental system in the history of the world." That would be as a result of a constitution originally rating Blacks as 3/5 of a human, would it? Or is the egalitarian part the disenfranchisement of a bit more than half the population for the first century and a half? And how do call egalitarian a country where wealth grows ever more concentrated at the top, where 12% of the population is without adequate health care, where elections are very much affected by those with the most money?

What you have asserted here is that Americans believe that America is the bestest with the mostest because it is. The point, however, is far from clear-cut. America occupies the top spot in very few categories these days: not life expectancy, not infant mortality, not equality of wealth and income, not even freedom of the press.

But don't try to tell that to an American.

[sir_captain]

26. It's implied

by positing that Americans are stupid and don't care about anyone else, the poster is obviously setting up a contrast with everyone else. If I'm reading that wrong, then it's on me.

Do I disagree with the exact sentiment offered by the original poster? No, not really. But I object to the tone. What's the point of being a progressive American if you think that most Americans are so hateful? And I certainly never said anything about American foreign policy, so please don't atrribute any of those ideas to me.

Obviously, dpibel, I would not be here at DU if I didn't see problems with our current political system. I don't need a lecture from you on the oligarchic nature of our economic system--if I wasn't up in arms over the disparity of wealth and services in this country, i'd be over at free republic. American principles of free speech, freedom of religion, and freedom from terror from one's own government (well, that one worked pretty well until Bush, perhaps) are fantastic ideals that have been echoed around the globe, and if you don't think that's true, I suggest you restudy your history. The bill of rights was revolutionary, and that's simply the truth. In terms of egalitarianism, I'd suggest you learn a little something about the history of immigration in this country. America is so heads and shoulders above any other country in the history of the world in terms of offering opportunity to immigrants that it's utterly laughable. (Though sadly, our immigration policy today is certainly not what it once was.) As a second generation immigrant myself, I'm proof of the pudding.

And I absolutely did not assert that America is the "bestest with the mostest" and I resent your implication and attempt to make me look like a moron. My point was that the original poster was taking agency away from Americans and making a generalized and incredibly condescending comment about the entire populace of the country.

[pyrenees]

41. Have you lived outside of America?

Does America have problems? Sure

But have you ever been to Africa, the middle east South America, or India or just about any other place on this planet?

There's a reason why illegal aliens are flooding our country.
I don't see people risking theirs lives to move to etheopia, Sudan, or Honduras.

You should enlighten everyone as to where all these better places to live are, then consider moving their yourself.

You want to throw down on America for taking down killers like Saddumb Insane or the Taliban, great why don't you move to a country that has a murderous dictator like that and exercise your American First Amendment rights there. Maybe you'll get a feel for what we are trying to do for the oppressed peoples of the world.

IMHO
Pryenees

[WillyBrandt]

27. Sir_Captain, don't you know that true progressives live on Mt Olympus?

And their proper role is to mock the mindless populace scurrying around below? The more loudly so-called progressives mock the masses, the more they disclaim the ideals of the nation, the more people will flock to them, ushering in a new liberal Golden Age.

Really. That's how it's going to work, and if you think different, then you don't know your American history. (Or, rather, you haven't read enough jacket-covers of dubious history books.)

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

15. Ignorance is bliss.

[Lorien]

31. And it takes no effort at all!

Then, because Mr. Moran knows somewhere in his tiny brain that he's not exactly "Jeopardy" championship material, he insists that being born in the most powerful nation automatically makes him superior to all other life forms.
"My country right or wrong, an' even our wrongs is right, dang it"!

We were once a Nation that valued intelligence, innovation, and courage, but then the airwaves were filled with Reich wing talking heads...

[Jade Fox]

16. I think the right wing radio jocks etc. have given a lot of validity...

to what used to be clearly recognizable as ignorance.

Coulter, Savage, Limbaugh of course, and lefty convert Howard
Stern have legitimatized thinking (and behavior) that used to rightly be
a source of embarassment.

Its all part of what critic Stanley Crouch calls the "Culture of Vulgarity"

[sir_captain]

19. Stanley Crouch is great!

I've met him a few times, and he's just as excellent in person!

[Jade Fox]

37. I'm jealous.....

He's one of those people I fantasize having a nice long conversation with
wherein between us we solve all the worlds major problems! :)

[sir_captain]

39. I've been

lucky (and sometimes unlucky) to grow up among the NY intelligencia, so I've had the opportunity to meet and get to know a lot of these types. Crouch is definitely among the best of them--nice guy.

[OneBlueSky]

17. ya know, I really try to look for the good in people . . .

and I'm convinced that, by and large, most people have more good than bad in them . . . but having been a resident of this planet for a few years now, every day I'm more and more convinced that a huge percentage of Americans are also immensely self-centered, ill-informed, and just plain stupid . . . they get their "news" entirely from the tube, never question the bile that the Hannitys and O'Reillys spew daily, and haven't had an original thought since the third grade . . . they think that reality television actually IS reality, and don't give a rat's ass about anyone but themselves and those in their immediate circle . . . "Thousands of Iraqis killed? Who cares?" is the prevailing attitude, and it extends to every other issue of concern in the nation and the world . . . if it doesn't impact them directly and immediately, it's not important . . . the capacity for long-range thinking, for critical thought of any kind, seems to have long ago been lost to the vast wastelands of television, movies, and other forms of advertising masquerading as entertainment . . .

years ago, people read a magazine called "Life" . . . then it was "People" . . . then "Us" . . . one of these days, someone is going to launch a magazine called "ME!" and make a whole lot of money . . .

[HEFFA]

20. I don't know about ME, but I have seen SELF (nt)

:P

[moondust]

21. Narcissism and religious self-righteousness.

Both heavily exploited by Republicans.

[BeHereNow]

25. My thoughts exactly Buzzz...

And remember what happened to Narcissus?

[Lorien]

32. Yep

You hit the nail on the head, Buzzz!

[pyrenees]

46. Don't ef with mother nature!

I think I'll stand over here.

Lightning is about to strike

[dawn]

22. Because people like that ARE ignorant and stupid.

:)

Thankfully, not all Americans are like that. Unfortunately, they get most of the press.

[sweetheart]

23. I like relish on hotdogs

Its that same arrogance that would think the democratic underground
dot com is somehow american by the location of its web server. The
ideals of free democracy are global, democracy is a global issue, and
why is it we have so few from outside the US, on a free democracy
site? Statistics should have 95% foreign participants on a
democratic underground. This is american democratic party
underground named obliquely that it picks up this other meaning by
accident.

And this website is a microcosm. The ignorance could be sorted out
right quick if more americans got on an airplane and went abroad to
see what their government is really up to. Go visit the korean DMZ
for summer holiday, see the repressive presence of a forward
deployed military, and wonder.

The people who've waged world (empire) war inside american government are very
very smart people, not ethical, but smart. The people who oppose
their tyrranny are even smarter, and ethical. It is the device of
the unethical smart man to kick the ladder away once they get up
above their counterpart in life. This is the bushishta's way with
its people, to wage war and screw the republic.

It angers me to no limit, the destruction they've waged on what was
once my beautiful country. The clear-eyed reconing of what these
men has done to the country should leave the few remaining really
smart folks in america preparing for an excalation of this civil
war.

[HEyHEY]

36. Mmmm me too.

[pyrenees]

45. Better yet, go to North Korea and have a hot dog

How many North Koreans have died of starvation?

Know how many people have died under communist government?

Do your research and get back to me.

By the way, I've been to Korea and loved it.

Pyrenees

[dpibel]

49. Well, when you put it that way

You don't say anything that addresses the question.

Other than that, carry on!

[Woodstock]

28. I can see the dummies falling for it, but the seemingly intelligent ones..

that's another story. The dumb ones are easy to con, Bush simply appeals to their vanity. He pretends to admit them into his good old boy club, where they can continue being lazy, bigoted, and unChristian, yet still imagine themselves superior to the rest of us. The price of admission is high, but they are more than willing to pay it. But seemingly intelligent people simply don't want to lift a finger to inform themselves about what is going on. They have blind trust in a frat boy privileged son failed businessman and his crook pals. It's not like we don't have lots of Republicans (and lots of Bush's former administration members) saying the same things we are saying. These are facts. The whole setup to war when the neocons were in bed with Saddam, all of the sordid Pakistani/Saudi Arabian deals, the Enron connections, everything is out there in the open. It's not even a good con job this administration is pulling off - it's like they are just going through the motions, convinced a wink wink, nod nod will be sufficient. The only thing I can figure out is, the seemingly intelligent Bush supporters suspect all this about him but hide their heads in the sand because they think they are getting something good out of it. But that's the joke - they aren't getting anything out of it at all, they think they are in on the con, but they are the victims too. Really sad.

[pyrenees]

43. Beam Me Up Scotty!

Is this like when Kirk goes to a parallel universe and meets his evil self?

Pyrenees

[no_hypocrisy]

29. Because it's like when my sister wanted to convert to Catholicism. Our

mother demanded to know what advantage my sister would gain from such a jump from Judaism to Catholicism.

My sister answered simply: she wouldn't have to make any more decisions. The Church would take care of deciding for her what was right and wrong and that would reduce future mistakes or time wasted thinking about things.

Our mother went ballistic, not because my sister wanted to convert (Mom was a closet atheist and wasn't keen on either religion), but because she couldn't believe that her daughter would abrograte her right to think for herself and learn from her mistakes.

So, in a nutshell, a lot of Americans relish ignorance (I didn't know that . . . ) and stupidity (I didn't know that and I still don't want to know . . . ) because they don't want the responsibility of the work that thinking demands, not to mention taking the consequences of their decisions. Not to mention, a lot of them are like Barbara Bush with their attitudes of "I don't want to bother my beautiful mind with thoughts like that." Ignorance must be bliss for them. The rest of us must look like real troublemakers, malcontents and potstirrers to them.

P.S. My parents gave my sister some grief and then left her alone. She lost her desire to convert. Ten years later, she was married in a Jewish ceremony to a great guy, who is more brother than brother-in-law to me -- and they both are dynamic thinkers. There is always a chance for change.

[pyrenees]

48. Thank Goodness a Happy ending

American companies are having to take work outside of America because Americans can no longer read or do basic math, how the heck do you expect them to think. The communist had a wonderful saying "Religion is the opiate of the masses" That's because they want the masses to worship the state.

Now we can say "Television is the opiate of the masses" Politicians want to keep Americans dumb so thay can continue robbing us via taxation without representation. Sit in front of the boop tube and watch MTV for the rest of your life little Billy, Hey little suzie, see how they all dress, have a baby and we'll take care of you.

Unemployments rates are through the roof in America
Yet we have so many jobs, we have to open the flood gates to illegal aliens to fill all the open jobs.

Little Billy is veged out in front of idiot box and little Suzie is getting knocked up.

Anyway, glad your sister got married to a good guy.
I don't think there is any church that will do your thinking for you. Your sis must have been going through something else, but what do I know.

Pyrenees

[Cleita]

30. I'm an American and I don't feel that way.

That is a very broad brush you are painting all of us with.

[Lorne]

33. It's because...

we have a lot of money (more than any other countries GNP) and that we can do what we want because we have money. People here always want. They want a Humvee. They want their SUVs. They want their better and faster PC. They want the best foods. The best clothes. The best of everything.

The "Me" Generation has never died. It's in full force now. :(

Edit: I'm not one of those people, though.

[Liberal Classic]

34. Everybody knows that

There are no ignorant or stupid people anywhere else in the world.

:eyes:

[mdmc]

35. we are wrong

so sue us. lol. :~)
I feel your pain.

[Rex]

38. I would wager that most countries are like this.

To A your Q: cuz they're ignorant and stupid. :)

Edit - because I can't speel and I'm stupid. :(

[mulethree]

40. Of course its right, the TV said so ....

[pyrenees]

42. Why you Ask?

I suppose you could go to Rwanda, China, Somalia, North Korea, saudi arabia or maybe even Columbia and see why people might be better off living in freedom.

Just a suggestion
Pyrenees

[The White Rose]

50. Or, you could go to Sweden, or New Zealand, or Denmark, or Ireland

and see how people in an enlightened democracy live. Are you saying that the U.S. should only be compared to Third World countries and totalitarian regimes? Then again...

[Centre_Left]

44. Its almost as irritating as...

...people who make massive generalizations about an entire nation's citizenry.

[Selwynn]

47. Because the opposite of I and S are not relevant to daily life....

...of most Americans.

Many of the most important issues in life, yea truly issues that do in fact have direct (but often more difficult to immediately discern) effects on everyday Americans, are usually abstracted and removed from most peoples immediate worries. Such issues have little to do with their personal money making, taking care of a family, watching television, consuming, etc. Some of these aims may be things we should criticize - perhaps many people are too obsessed with material. Perhaps some people fixate too much on making money. But certainly other things are just real (and good) parts of life - raising a family, for example, among others.

Either way, the fact remains that it's more comfortable to believe simple dogmatic platitudes and not worry about it than it is to actually think hard about political issues. It's more comforting to rally together in testosterone fueled super-patriotism and thereby feel safe and strong and "right" than it is to admit (and actively explore) confusing feelings, troubling problems, our own nations failures, and the real state of disarray in the world today. To do so is to feel insecure and vulnerable. I have come to believe that the thing many Americans fear more than anything else is to be left alone with their own questions - their own thoughts. Therefore many of not most Americans do everything in their power to make sure that NEVER HAPPENS.

People who want to feel safe, feel secure, and get on with their "regular" lives posses a "will to believe" even lies that is irresistibly strong precisely because it is comforting and stress relieving.

Here's the bottom line answer: it's not exactly "fun" to be informed. It's not really a "picnic" to carefully and critically reflect on all the issues and all the facts, knowing that its very likely that no clear, easy or uncomplicated answers will be readily available. Being informed and reflective requires a certain kind of heart, a certain kind of passion, a certain kind of commitment, and most of all, a willingness to grieve - because a clear and unflinching look at reality will cause grief, frustration, uncertainty, insecurity and confusion - more so at first, but even after some direction/answers begin to reveal themselves to the honest diligent seeker, those complicated and uncomfortable feelings never really go away.

It is because its far, far harder to be informed. It's much much easier to stay deliberately naive and become fanatically aggressive when someone threatens or challenges that self-chosen naivety. They don't say ignorance is bliss for nothing...

That's why.
Sel