The Return of Indentured Servitude?

[AlienGirl]

I came up with this all by myself, so let me know if 'm talking out my ass.

You know how some hospitals have started using "body attachment" when a person's medical bills are unpaid long enough?

You know how some states have prisoners work for a few cents an hour to "pay for their room and board"?

If you combined these trends, wouldn't it be possible that creditors might start putting debtors into jail, then claiming the wages they make in prison-labor programs as "repayment"?

Is indentured servitude really on the horizon of the American culture, or am I just paranoid?

Tucker

[specter]

1. The

Federal Prison system is a vast money machine for politicians dont think for a second that indentured servitude is not alive and well in the USA

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Probably not immediately

There's a big, fat volume of case law that makes debt indenture highly illegal. If'n I was a lawyer, I'd find all the prisoners of "body attachment" I could and make life hell for every prosecutor and judge who has implemented it -- and retire rich, liberal, and politically dangerous!

They can't push things too far too fast. They also have to wait for opportunities, especially where people will be distracted. And, on the other hand, America is filled with people who would rather "go underground" than risk going to prison for the crime of poor health. I'd like to consider myself one of those people. Sick people suffer greatly in prison, and a life as a renegade would be preferable to a life behind bars for being a "credit criminal".

Also, I'm convinced that neo-conservatism is down to its last few years of power. If Bush is returned to the White House next January, he'll probably leave the White House in leg irons and end up as a long-time resident of some Federal or (gasp!) International Penitentiary.

If Bush intends to seize power, it will have to be done by a naked power grab, hidden by some national crisis. That crisis will have to be bigger than 9/11 by several orders or magnitude. Even nuking NYC wouldn't really be able to do it.

This isn't to say that I don't think Bush will cause this country great suffering and loss. He already has. But his march toward tyranny isn't unopposed, and the moral oscillations of society are going to catch up with him, too.

Rest easy -- but be prepared, just in case!

--bkl

[VolcanoJen]

3. What does that mean... "body attachment"?

I honestly don't know... what does that mean, AlienGirl? It sounds, well, heinous.

[loftycity]

4. Best way to know what Body Attachment is. .. You know

how the Fed's go after people who have back taxes? The Fed and state can take everything you own. It's the same thing. A much more bizarre world with the neo-cons. Fricking scary.

[VolcanoJen]

8. Thank you, Tucker and lofty!!

:scared: :scared: :scared:

[AlienGirl]

5. Body attachment is,...

Published on 10/30/2003 in the Wall Street Journal
Hospitals Try Extreme Measures to Collect Their Overdue Debts
by Lucette Lagnado

It's a 'Body Attachment'
CHAMPAIGN-URBANA, Ill. -- Late one night in June 2000, a police cruiser pulled up to Marlin Bushman's house on a quiet, tree-lined street. While Mr. Bushman's wife and son stood by, an officer handcuffed the burly truck driver and took him away to jail. The charge: missing a court hearing about a $579 hospital bill.

The hospital that pursued Mr. Bushman, a 295-bed not-for-profit facility called Carle Foundation Hospital, is one of several that has at times employed debt collection tactics that are shunned by many other creditors. It has filed hundreds of lawsuits, garnisheed patients' wages and seized their tax refunds. Since 1995, Carle, the primary teaching hospital of the University of Illinois, confirms it has also sought 164 arrest warrants for debtors who missed court hearings.

more...

http://bernie.house.gov/documents/articles/20031031155424.asp


8:35-8:58 Are Debtor Prisons Returning To America?

INTRO: Hospitals hound uninsured patients for bill payments and now rank among America's most aggressive debt-collectors using one of the harshest and least-known collections tactics of all: seeking the arrest of no-show debtors. We speak with Jim Bean who was jailed in Illinois in part because he failed to pay a hospital bill and we hear from the CFO of the hospital that sought his arrest as well as a member of a grass roots citizen action organization in Illinois.

(snip)

Hospitals in several states have secured the arrest and even jailing of patients who miss court hearings on their debts. This legal tactic is chillingly known in some areas as “Body Attachment.”

more...

http://www.pacifica.org/programs/dn/040107.html

A Google search of "body attachment" +debt will give you a lot of information.

Baically, it is debtor's prison.

Tucker

[MadProphetMargin]

6. YAY! DEBTOR'S PRISONS! Now that's PROGRESS!

We're doomed.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. It seems more like contempt of court

But I'm not a lawyer. If you are summoned for a hearing and don't show up, isn't it common for a warrant to be issued?

[MadProphetMargin]

9. Not in civil cases, if the summons was simply a newspaper ad.

In that case, they just find against you.

[DoNotRefill]

10. It depends on the charge.

Bench warrants are SOP for FTA.

These people are not being jailed for nonpayment, they're being jailed for not showing up in court.

[DoNotRefill]

13. It's really not debtor's prison.

If you show up at court but refuse to pay, they don't jail you.

The purpose of the arrest is to get you before the judge, not to extract money. If you were arrested for FTA, paid the company it's money, and it dropped the charges, you'd still be faced with the criminal charge of FTA, and the acting party can't make those charges go away.

[Nikia]

11. I college, a dorm mate was arrested

She had ignored paying her credit card bill for a while. She was lead away by police, spent the night in jail, and was brought before a judge the next morning. They released her after she promised to make payments, which she did after that experience.

[DoNotRefill]

14. But the charge was FTA, not on the warrant in debt...

right?

[mitchum]

12. Our credit card culture brought back indentured servitude

[wyldwolf]

15. There are some libertarians who endorse Indentured Servitude

Scary, but true.

[MadProphetMargin]

16. Libertarians also think that public roads and schools are bad things

They're either anti-middle class, poisoned by koolaid, or outright anarchists.

[DoNotRefill]

17. Wouldn't work....

Bankruptcy protection still works on most debt, including medical bills.