How do you make deaf people listen?

[ScreamingMeemie]

I just got off the phone with my brother in LA. A little background on my brother: In the eighties he was a far left liberal, really into Vietnam Vets rights, the injustices of Reaganomics, attended rallies, meetings, Nelson Mandelas US tour...etc. If there was a cause for the people, he was there.

Flash forward now to tonight. He is now married with little one. I have two little ones (this does come into the picture later on). We get to discussing politics, Gray Davis, Bush, PNAC...and I find out my brother is a Neo Con. Maybe not totally, but definitely leaning there. Snippets of our conversation...

PNAC-it's not like there's an actual group of people working on this together(yes I am sending him links)

Lieberman-As Bush leans more right, Lieberman will center himself and therefore be the one to vote for..:puke:

Iraq-We're there now....blah blah blah.

Here, I guess is the kicker. I mention how I go to Dean Meetups, How the numbers of members keep rising, how I live in a state massively affected by NAFTA, health insurance costs..etc. Here is a semblance of what he responded with. Yeah, well, when I was younger (he is two years older than me) I found myself getting upset, going to communist party meetings, rallying and then realized it was stupidity, non productive, you can't change the world. WHEN IS A MEETING FOR A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE A COMMUNIST MEETING??????????

I had sent him Buzzflash links, PNAC links and of course I can't believe everything I read there, and yet MSNBC is honest reporting. Where's the difference. Why can't they see it????
So now that he has a young one, he is focusing more on getting her to walk and less on the things that really don't affect him at all. His words," I'm creating my own private Xanadu". This used to be a very forward thinking man.

He's now a law abiding liberal. (his words) Where does attending meetings for a democratic candidate and surfing the internet become illegal? Again, this is a college educated man.

His closing words, basically a call for me to worry more about the wellbeing of my children. Which I thought I was doing in trying to protect their future...ARRRRGHHHHH!

So, now I sit here, dumbfounded, depressed and concerned. How can we make intelligent people see and hear that our country is going to hell in a handbasket????

Edited to correct spelling.

[oregonjen]

1. I'm educating myself FOR my children!

Maybe when his child is of school age, he will understand that there is no money to educate him/her! I am starting to learn about PNAC and the neocon agenda. I'm angry as hell that my money is being spent for lies, murder, and oil. Maybe he will start getting angry when he loses his job or wants to raft in the river that has gone to shit! I'm mad and so sick of what is happening to our country!
End of rant. :)

[Lars39]

3. Welcome to DU, oregonjen!!!!

What's the phrase, "If you're not mad, your not paying attention?"
or something like that. :)

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. My only fear is that then it will be to late.

Although it is heartening to read posts of other like minded indivuduals, his view just blew me out of orbit. Welcome, I look forward to getting to know you!

[wellstone_democrat]

2. If my brother is any guide...i don't know

Mine was less active than yours but that "creating my own private xanadu" is similar to his version of "my focus is on my own world"
His world is his 3 year old daughter (who is the focus of TOO much attention from two almost 40 year old parents). She is the "miracle" that seems to keep him so focused on his little world that he doesn't see that the big bad outside world effects her and them in the long run.

My sister suggested it is "fatigue"---too much feeling that things are beyond his control and that the minute by minute adoration and nurturing of his offspring *is* something that can be controlled. Of course nothing can be controlled. After Sept 11th he claimed that life had "changed" but what it seemed to do to him was give him license to abandon any semblance of civic engagement unless it is intensely local and intrudes on his "world." We have not found a thing that moves him from what sounds less "conservative" than simply selfish at times.

I have children myself and certainly think that the domestic or the local is very important but disengagement from the "world" isn't a position, its a retreat and a surrender.

BTW, his criticism of my continued involvement smacks of defensiveness. That conscience is still under there and someday mine will realize that the "world" doesn't stop at his door and that keeping his daughter "safe" requires more than an internal gaze. If he doesn't engage with the world he might find it will demand he engage it on terms he doesn't like.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. I am in complete agreement with you...What also scares me is that the

mere mention of activism, and to me attending democratic party meetings is small, brings out a reference to the Communist Party.

My children are my world, therefore I must work to make the world I leave to them a place in which they want to live. How can one create Xanadu out of Shit???

[oregonjen]

6. had a good conversation with my brother

He's a Libertarian and I mentioned PNAC and he knew nothing about it. Congressman Ron Paul's speech Neo-conned is a good way to introduce him to what is happening to our government. He was open to it because a Libertarian had written it. So, one person at a time, right?

[ScreamingMeemie]

8. I hope, I send him stuff all the time, and he passes it off as far left

propaganda. What the hell got to this guy??? He know has me pictured as a crazy, child neglecting, liberal. (kind of freeper like) I wear house dresses a lot in reality, and even wash windows twice a year. Basically I look like the woman a lot of people would assume goes to confession every Saturday, and thought Mr. Monkey looked cute in his flight suit.:puke:

I think we may have lost this one.

[alaine]

7. Syria

They gave us more info on the Taliban and al qaeda than anyone else, post 9/11, yet because the U.S defied the U.N, our relationship with them now is non-existent.

There is proof that the Taliban is coming back, and the deaths of Uday and Qusay did not even orchestrate a momentary pause in the accumulation of U.S. casualties.

It's sickening when a person who at one time exhibited sense suddenly sounds like a member of the borg. I honestly think history is going to tell this tale though.

All we can do is what Robert Byrd talked about when he said "I stood for the constitution." Be on the side of justice and integrity. The same thing seems to be happening to my sister. I straight out asked her "When did you become such a republican?" and her answer was, "I don't know what I am". I didn't know what to say to that either.

[w4rma]

9. My recomendation

Get a feel for his beliefs. What does he see as most important.

Then quote Bush disagreeing with your brother on that.

For example:

On "Vietnam (Iraqnam) Vets rights":
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html

On Reaganomics:


Then after you've de-enamored him with Bush, show him a position (important to him) that the Democratic candidate agrees with him on.

Massive information dump on Gov. Howard Dean
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=43435&mesg_id=43435&page=

Don't overload him all at once, though.