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JOE T Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:49 PM
Original message
Please tell me a Democrat didnt write this!!!
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 11:23 PM by JOE T
I just read this at AR15.com. Please tell me this guy wasnt serious!! This makes us look as bad as the Republicans. Please tell me we havent dropped to their level!! The post is below and if this is offensive I apologize.
Joe


MARCHING INSTRUCTIONS FOR DEMOCRATS

By now I'm sure you've heard of democraticunderground.com ... a website where your Democrat neighbors can go to trade ideas and thoughts about this year's election. One of our alert listeners lifted a few postings on this website that I thought you might enjoy. Here, my friends, are your loving, compassionate Democratic neighbors at work. Why don't we all sit back and let them chose our next president ... waddaya say? Here's the first post:

As we've heard again and again recently, if we are going to beat this bunch of rule breaking GOP misanthropes, we're going to have to start fighting as dirty as they do. I started this thread for one reason, to get everyone's ideas on a list of things we as Democrats can consider to stop the takeover of this country. This isn't going to be a thread for the squeamish, or for the ideologically pure. Best to steer clear if that describes you.

Here are half a dozen ideas to get the ball rolling.

1) Get Republicans fired at your workplace, or fire them yourself if you can – In the belief that all activism starts with the grass roots, do us all a favor, and fire your Republican employees this week. There are legitimate reasons to fire virtually any employee, so avail yourself of them. Not only will it quit the gloating you're hearing around the office, it'll stop those donation checks they are getting ready to write. Might also teach them a bit of humility regarding the poor and the disadvantaged. They can be the "Pioneers" of "Unemployment Window A"

2) Pretend to be a Republican, and then cut down the next Republican that you have a conversation with. - The more public/crowed the place you do this, the better. Use whatever remarks you know are sure to make the intended impression. "You're no better than the liberal scum you claim to hate... get back into the kitchen... Just wait till we win next year and toss peons like you into the field or the workhouse... People in your income bracket don't have the right to be Republican or vote etc." If you need talking points, just observe in a Yahoo political chat room for a few minutes and you have all the right wing bile that you can use and quite possibly all that you can stand.

3) Create, plant and disseminate widely "news stories" that discredit GOP policies – A good way to do this is to print out stories in the visual style of a major newspaper or magazine (don't use the logo or other copywrited material, however) and theme them similarly to the ones that targeted John McCain's platform last presidential election. Make sure not to slander individuals directly. Leave stacks of the printouts where people are certain to find them – i.e. supermarkets, coffee houses, bars, community centers etc. As in #2 make sure to write these from the right wing perspective, for maximum effect on the target audience. Avoid digital media, as it's too easy to fact check, not that most GOP voters care to check these things anyway.

4) Contact the IRS and anonymously tip them off regarding prominent GOP contributors in your area. – Lets face it, they are likely tax evaders in any case (that's why they are GOP), so might as well have them go thru an audit and feel a bit of what it's like to have a hostile government prying into their affairs. The tax money you shake free will be a little payback to your community for the egregious tax cut they undoubtedly are enjoying.

5) Make sure that you're the only ride on voting day for a group of hard right types who live out of the way, and then don't show up. – This works best in low population density areas and poor right wing communities. Cultivate a group of right wing friends and make sure they depend on you for the ride on Election Day. Then don't show up. Every vote they miss is an uncontested vote on the blue side of the aisle. The right needs a taste of Florida 2000.

6) Impersonate Linda Tripp. – Whisper into the ear of GOP associates to encourage and get dirty laundry regarding their improprieties, and then make sure that information gets into the wrong hands. It's hard to brag about family values or think about politics when you're in a divorce court.

Are you really serious about winning the culture war? Do you mean it when you say it's time to fight fire with fire? Then channel that anger and let's hear some ideas. Given the thin skin of most conservative ideologues, it won't take much to have them running far away from such policies and tactics so we can all enjoy proper, principled political discourse in the country again. First, however, they need to be taught that fighting dirty burns them as much as it burns anyone.

BTW- if you want to take action beyond the intellectual consideration of these ideas, please do so on your own. This thread is meant for the mental exercise of these ideas. Don't involve DU.

And a response from another loyal Democrat:

tedoll78: I used to be an "I-won't-do-that" person, but now I want to win and prevent the major harm that the GOP would do. In the end, having more liberal leaders in power will save the country and world from more heartache/chaos/destruction/etc; the change for the positive worldwide will more than pay-back for these tactics.

Like someone above said, let's break some eggs.

My starting proposals:

1) Hand-out faulty polling locations & directions in GOP-heavy voting districs. Let's see how they like it for a change.

2) Go door to door as a GOP volunteer with absentee ballots; the GOP loves to vote absentee, right? And then throw the filled-out ballots away. Either that, or give them a faulty ballot with a bad address on the envelope, and then they won't vote on election day since they'd think they've already voted.

3) Volunteer for a GOP phone bank operation and talk dirty to old people on the phone. Think of the most obscene, anus-licking things you can comprehend, and go for it! And be sure to identify yourself as a Bush supporter.

4) Wear an 'I love george w bush' t-shirt in public and act like a major ass. Moon people, fart loudly, call people offensive names. Here's a favorite: Go to football games where the Army is playing and accuse the other team's fans of being unpatriotic for rooting against the Army. In other words, be absurd!

5) When a polling organization calls, give answers such that they reflect very very very poorly on the nation's condition. Tell them you're unemployed, or tell them that you make <$8000 a year.

6) Panhandle in GOP/swing neighborhoods where it isn't illegal. Get as many people as you can to join you; create the image of crisis. Hold-up a sign saying that you were downsized, or that your job was sent overseas. If you're a veteran, emphasize your loss of benefits.

7) Drop-off a stack of fliers at veterans' halls, hospitals, etc detailing the betrayal of the Bush administration. And, if possible, ask them if they're enjoying their tax cuts.

I just thought of these seven off the top of my head. Surely we can come-up with some creative strategies for making the GOP's image as irrespectable as possible!

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's one man's opinion...
Personally I think we can win elections fairly, even if the Republicans can't.
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DianeG5385 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sounds like freakin republican tactics to me...
They can then claim, even though they put the trash out there to begin with, that the Dems are using dirty tactics. We need to track down the author so they can't pin this crap on a Dem.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. AR15.com...
... is full of strange people, and this, more likely than not, someone's idea of actually discrediting Democrats, rather than writing a prescription of action for Democrats.

Just repudiate it.

Cheers.
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leyton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Some people confuse the GOP leadership with Republicans in general.
And it ticks me off. One of my best friends is a Republican and has more character than most of the Democrats I know. I would never wish any of this upon him (like firing Republicans). This is just stupid.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. O.K. (as I hit "Alert"), I'll Bite: A Dem Didn't Write That n/t
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JOE T Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Ok I just wanted to know
And why the alert? did I do something wrong? I do visit AR15.com as I am a gun owner I just needed an opinion and now I have done something to warrent an alert? could you please tell me what I did wrong?
Joe
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Well, You Might Have Put Things in Quotes
I thought YOU were saying those things. If I misjudged you and jumped too soon, well, I'm a little bit jumpy about wingnuts. They're all over the place. Gives me the creeps.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Democrat - no E
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 11:11 PM by lunabush
Look on your voter registration card - it'll help you with the spelling.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. I notice this person's post has no link to an actual thread on DU
Have never read anything like it.
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JOE T Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. yea there was no link
That why I asked about it here. It could be some Republican crap to make us Democrates look bad. I was just curious.
Joe
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Been reading Du for more than two years
lots of folks bitch about repubs and their tactics. Some advocate responding (at least in terms of campaigns and rhetoric) in kind - others will always sound off that we should always take the high road.

However - I have never heard anyone advocate dirty tricks like those written in that post. Heck - when folks used to talk about poll "freeping" there are always tons of voices clarifying that duers may call attention to a poll so other duers might vote to remember that we DON'T do the oft bragged about "freeping" where the freeper clears out the cookie and votes multiple times. Point being - the response towards behavior (not rhetoric)... if ever made here (and have seen nexct to NONE of it in two years) - gets shot down by a gazillion voices.

A thread such as this guy has written - would have been attacked from here til friday by other DUers.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. You're sooo right!
Honestly, I don't think that would get past the moderators. There is no way I wouldn't object strenuously, and would alert immediately. This is bogus.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. sad thing
is that I was incorrect. See Charlie's post and my response. The only thing that I think explains it is the context - two days after Arnies win in California in what was seen as a very slimey campaign (from questionable funding of the recall effort to Arnie's groping stories - to his "I will investigate after the election"... etc.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #35
44. Looks like someone........
copied from a GOP dirty tricks website and replaced the word "Democrat" with "Republican"
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. It's real
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. yikes
not only did I miss it - I was completely wrong in what I assumed would have been the reaction. To someone calling to try to get another person fired from their job? And next to no backlash at that being far over the top? Geez.

Ah, but this was during the recall election... puts a little bit of context - given the slimey origins and funding of the recall effort to begin with.
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. One must weigh the disclaimer at the end as well.
BTW- if you want to take action beyond the intellectual consideration of these ideas, please do so on your own. This thread is meant for the mental exercise of these ideas. Don't involve DU.

Interesting, the disclaimer was conveniently omitted on this thread.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Important catch n/t
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. It's the tenor of our times...
I'm not surprised at the reception, conservadroids have beaten us into a position of desperation. Even though they have the upper hand in every seat of power, they haven't relented with their embattled minority "kill the liberals" schtick. And frankly, I'd like nothing better than a ringside seat on a nearby liberal planet -- let the assholes have everything they've been clamoring for, so I can enjoy watching them howl and squall at the result.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
43. Yes, I have never read anything like this that wasn't repudiated
if not locked in record time.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sounds like they want us to be like Republicans.
Not me.

I'm more likely to believe that a Republican disruptor wrote this to use AGAINST Democrats, as usual.

That is THEIR style of thuggery. Republicans can own the low road all by themselves.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Yeah, I've never seen anything like this on DU either
I bet this is a Republican projecting the types of things that Republicans have been known to do onto the Democrats.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. I hope that soon, the low road will be paved w/ * body parts!!
I LOOOOVE road trips!!!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Silly, smart-ass Republicans....
Are always good for a laugh.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. I would never advocate anyone doing these things...
:)
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. ??????????????????? more chicanery?
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Don'te Knowe, Joe
Whate doe youe thinke?

(tryinge note toe takee thee baite)
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
17.  AR15.com is a fucking freeper
Maybe JOE T has changed his name, 'eh?
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. If you want a second opinion as to the authenticity...
I might suggest you march this over to www.freerepublic.com and see what response you can elicit over there. Just an idea.
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. Unfortunately that was indeed one of ours.
It was posted yesterday or the day before IIRC. The mods deleted it but not before it was picked up and passed around freeperville.

We need to be smarter than that. There are a lot of unfriendly lurkers out there just waiting to take advantage of our wackier ideas. This sort of thing only makes their jobs easier.

This is a public forum. IMO we should act like we are in public.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. What do you mean, "we"????/
I don't take any responsibility for freeper shit, whether it's posted here or over there. They'll have to answer on their own....
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. ah... matches the point I was trying to make above
that when folks have gone over the line (and I did not see this thread, nor have I seen anything like it) - there is usually a huge shoutdown chorus... didn't mention the other means to show that this isn't general DU discourse - that such threads get deleted.
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JOE T Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Ok I just wanted to know
If this post is that much of a issue Mods please remove it. Thanks to those that gave useful responses. Well back to the Gun-dungeon for me.
Joe
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Especially since we're getting quoted in the NY POST.
Some idiot really posted that gestapo-like garbage?

Charming.

(I really did see DU quotes in a NY Post column by Michelle Malkin(?)last week.)
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. This is B.S.
I have never read a thread like this in any shape or form. Besides the moderators will remove any statements from above.

Next:
<snip>
2) Go door to door as a GOP volunteer with absentee ballots; the GOP loves to vote absentee, right? And then throw the filled-out ballots away. Either that, or give them a faulty ballot with a bad address on the envelope, and then they won't vote on election day since they'd think they've already voted.
<snip>

One cannot just obtain a absentee ballot more or less lots of them not to mention that people who do vote absentee know the ballot comes in the mail, not hand carried by a volunteer.

On the other hand, if you read this as a humor piece, it is slightly funny (the football game is funny).
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Never mind
:evilfrown:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. Welcome to DU.
I'm impressed that a post I never saw on DU can now be authentically attributed to DU, with a link and all.

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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. 1) Get Republicans fired at your workplace, or fire them yourself if you c
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 11:27 PM by Ksec
Great idea!! Ill tell the bosses they are thieves and stole stuff I already stoled.
Hahaha

Then I can report them to the police and have them arrested!! WooHoo

Sarcasm alert
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. A dem did not write that
That is the freeper/CONservative/repuke talking points. They are the ones who gladly sink that low...not us. :thumbsdown:
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I tend to agree
They have these minds that can dream up such viscious stuff. We cant hold a candle when it comes to vitriol.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
34. Feeding the trolls...
nt
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. Pfftt..."makes us look bad" meme
Seen it, nothing new. I congratulate you on such a long post (imagination). :eyes:
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berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
37. Didn't know about this RW site,
but if I had read this at a Democratic or anti-Bush site, I'd have thought it was pretty effective satire. Every dirty trick mentioned is something we know the GOP has done already. Did no one else find this mildly hilarious? (Maybe I'm losing my grip...)

In fact, I absolutely don't endorse dirty tricks. Or lies. The more truth-telling the better. Plus, we really do need to expose the GOP dirty tricks and the propaganda methods. Once people are on the alert, they can easily see through the lies.

Oh, one other thought--I'm pretty sure the GOP is working on redefining what a "lie" is. Apparently, if you really believe what you're saying (even if it's totally false), it doesn't count as a lie. So they're all out there saying they really, really believe there are WMD, for example. Total disconnect from reality. And they claim liberals are the moral relativists?? HAH!
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The Blue Knight Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-18-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
41. Lol. That was posted over at another forum I read as well.
Weird
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