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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:39 PM
Original message
Kerry says spain should keep troops in iraq
no link yet. i just heard his speech on defense and he said spain must not pull out.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. gawd
clue phone ringing for John:
pandering to Smirky will not win you any votes.
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
betta get back on track kerry, lest you send more ppl to the loser nader's camp
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Kitsune Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's when he says things like this...
...that I really don't want to vote for him.
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BradCKY Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wait a second
Don't we want to encourage other countries to help us?? Spain pulling out won't help, we need to involve MANY more countires.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. 92% of Spain doesn't want to be there
It is WRONG to insist that a country defy the overwhelming sentiment of its people.

Especially when it is 9 miles across the Straits of Gibraltor from Morocco and has a large population of pissed of Muslims.

Besides which fact the invasion is ILLEGAL, immoral and wrong
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BradCKY Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I never said
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 12:52 PM by BradCKY
Insist, I said encourage, its up to them in the end.

The fact that the war was wrong is obvious, but Iraq is unstable and America has to fix it, if a country wants to help they are more than welcome to, if they don't they won't.

Bush isolated many of our allies with his uncooperative stances. What I'm saying is we should adopt a position of respect towards these countries, it would go a long way.

Its time to get NATO in, a real coalition.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. American CAN'T fix it
Iraqis don't want us there, and they don't trust us to fix the mess. Can't say I blame them.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. i totally agree
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Oh my.
You might want to try reading some of the links to articles before posting if you are here to participate and learn and engage in discussion of the issues. If you are here merely to disrupt, as your name suggests, then fuck off.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Thanks for asking
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and offer a repsectful answer. Read this:

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031013&s=corn

And welcome to DU!
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Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. SPECIFIC lies of George W. Bush:
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 04:01 PM by Melinda
BUSH* LIES


CENSORED AND DELAYED 9-11 REPORT: The Bush administration purposefully delayed the release of the report of the Joint Congressional Committee on 9-11 until after the conclusion of the Iraq war to hide facts such as the absence of an Iraq-Al Qaeda link. Once released, the administration censored portions of the report that demonstrated that Bush was briefed on August 6, 2001 about Al Qaeda plans for a possible hijacking in the US and the Saudi role in funding Al Qaeda. (Waterman – UPI 07.23.03, Priest – Washington Post 07.25.03)

KILLED TREASURY DEFICIT STUDY: The administration “deep-sixed” a 2003 Treasury Department study that projected that “the equivalent of an immediate and permanent 66 percent across-the-board income tax increase” would be required to eliminate a projected $44.2 trillion budget deficit due to Bush’s tax cuts. The study found that the future health care and retirement costs of the baby boomers would overwhelm the treasury. “Sharp tax increases and massive spending cuts are unavoidable if the U.S. is to meet benefit promises to future generations.” The report added that the current financial challenge facing Washington is approximately “10 times the publicly held national debt, four years of U.S. economic output, or more than 94 percent of all U.S. household assets.” (Hollings – Washington Post 06.19.03, Baker – Slate 07.11.03, Ferdinand - Utne Reader 05.2003, Malveaux & McCaughan - CNN.com 05.29.03)

SUPPRESSING EVIDENCE OF RACIAL HARASSMENT WITHIN THE ASHCROFT JUSTICE DEPARTMENT: For over a year, the Justice Department has delayed the release of a KPMG Consulting report on diversity in DOJ. All that DOJ would release is a redacted version that deletes more than half the report including its summary. It is reported that the redacted portions include findings that DOJ faces “significant diversity issues” and that “minorities are significantly more likely than whites to cite stereotyping, harassment, and racial tensions as characteristics of the work climate.” (Congressman Conyers’

SUPPRESSING, ALTERING OR MANIPULATING EMPERICAL DATA UNDERMINING THEIR IDEOLOGICAL POSITIONS: A report by the House Committee on Government Reform – Minority Staff entitled “Politics and Science in the Bush Administration” reveal examples such as the administration:

Changing education performance measures to make “abstinence-only” programs appear effect; deleting information on the efficacy and use of condoms from the Center for Disease Control web site; withholding findings on global warming and other negative impacts on wetlands and preventing any analyses on alternative environmental proposals;
using misleading data to suggest that a functioning missile defense system could be deployed quickly; including information on the National Cancer Institute’s web site suggesting conflicting evidence on whether abortion leads to breast cancer when the scientific community has determined no such link exists; and preventing research on agricultural practices having a “negative health environmental consequences.

Read the full report Here

DELETED FORECAST OF TAX PLAN AS “JOB KILLER”: A Council of Economic Advisors’ forecast showing that the Bush “stimulus” plan would only create 170,000 jobs per year and would be a “job killer” after 2007 was removed from its website. (Baker – Slate 07.11.03)

DELETED FINDINGS OF GLOBAL WARMING: Prior to release of the EPA’s 2003 Environmental Overview, the White deleted a detailed chapter of global warming that found that global warming was due to human factors and that “climate changes has global consequences for human health and the environment”. (CBS News.com 06.19.03)

CONCEALED ANALYSIS: An EPA assessment of Bush’s “Clear Skies” plan concealed the fact that a proposal by Senator Carper (D-Del.) would provide greater long term benefits at only slightly higher costs. (Gugliotta & Pianin – Washington Post 07.02.03)

KILLED LAYOFF REPORTS: The Bureau of Labor Statistics’ monthly Mass Layoff Statistics report was killed by the administration in December 2002 and only noted in a footnote in the final report. (President Bush I did the same thing to hide his dismal performance.) After this was discovered by the Washington Post, the reports were reinstated. (Baker – Slate 07.11.03)

DELETED DECLINING MIN. WAGE: A Labor Department report showing the real value of the minimum wage over time (which would show the workers losing ground under Bush since there has been no increase since 1997) was removed from its website. (Baker – Slate 07.11.03)

FORCED SCIENTISTS TO ALTER FINDINGS ON KLAMATH RIVER WATER LEVELS: Karl Rove and Interior Secretary Norton forced National Marine Fisheries scientists to alter findings on the amount of water required for the survival of salmon in Oregon’s Klamath River to enable farms to use a bigger share of the river water. “As a result, more than 33,000 Chinook and Coho salmon died – the largest fish kill in American history.” (Kennedy – Rolling Stone 12.11.03)

RESTRICTING DEMOCRATS ABILITY TO QUESTION ADMINISTRATION: In an unprecedented move, the administration is requiring Democrats to submit all requests for information to Republican chairman of the relevant committee, thereby requiring Republican approval of any such requests. (Milbank – Washington Post 11.08.03)

BUSH LIES FROM A - Z

ABORTION

LIE: Bush justified re-imposing the Reagan era gag order prohibiting funding to overseas family planning groups that provide abortion services or counseling on the grounds that “taxpayer funds should not be used to pay for abortions”.

FACT: The US funds that Bush cut off were only used for non-abortion activities. (David Corn 02.05.01)

LIE: Bush withheld $34 million approved by Congress for the United Nations Population Fund Agency (UNPFA) claiming that the program supported China’s one-child policy.

FACT: Bush’s own State Department conducted an investigation and found “no evidence that UNFPA has supported or participated in the management of coercive abortion or involuntary sterilization” in China. Bush suppressed the report and withheld the funds anyway. (NOW Report – The Truth About George)

LIE: During the debates, Bush claimed he would not seek to overturn the FDA’s approval of RU-486.

FACT: Bush stated he would not accept the FDA’s decision and would seek to appoint an FDA commissioner who would “make sure the FDA considered the risk”. (ABC News.com 10.4.02)

BUSH’S MILITARY RECORD

LIE: After being transferred from the Texas Air National Guard “I was in on temporary assignment and fulfilled my weekends at one period of time.”

FACT: Bush was AWOL and never showed up at the Alabama Air National Guard, despite orders to report on specific days. (Democrats.com)

LIE: Bush returned to Houston after his temporary Alabama assignment and performed Guard duty at Ellington Air Force Base.

FACT: National Guard records indicate Bush had “not been observed” at the Houston base and the unit’s administrative officer has no recall of Bush returning and believed he was still in Alabama. (Democrats.com)

LIE: Bush applied to Harvard Business School in 1972 since “I was almost finished with my commitment in the Air National Guard and was no longer flying because the F-102 jet I has trained in was being replaced by a different fighter.”

FACT: Bush’s commitment was through May 1974 and his unit continued to fly F-102s through 1974. (Democrats.com)

LIE: Bush claimed that his Guard duty was not an attempt to avoid service in Vietnam since he volunteered for a program that rotated Guard pilots to Vietnam but he never was called.

FACT: Bush’s application included a box to be checked specifying whether he did or not want to volunteer for overseas duty. Bush checked the “no” box. (Democrats.com) In addition, despite scoring 25 out of a possible 100, Bush qualified for the single available pilot spot due to pressure from his father who was then in Congress. (GregPalast.com). See documentation in DOJ files detailing how strings were pulled for Bush at http://www.gregpalast.com and http://www.awolbush.com

BUSH’S RELIGIOUS DEVOTION

LIE: The Bush administration makes much of the fact of its commitment to Bible study; from the daily White House Bible study meetings to Don Evans recruiting Bush to give up the bottle for two years of “scriptural boot camp” with intensive study of Acts and other parts of the New Testament.

FACT: Bush’s religious devotion may be more show than substance. When Don Evans was asked whether he understood what Acts was about, he answered “no.” When candidate Bush was asked “what Bible passage did you read this morning”, he refused to answer saying “I think you’re trying to catch me as to whether or not I can remember where I was in the Bible”. (Franken – Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them)

CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM

LIE: After initially opposing McCain-Feingold, Bush jumped on the bandwagon once it was a fait accompli. In July 2002, he cut a deal with Senator McCain to appoint a pro-reform candidate (Ellen Weintraub) backed by McCain to the Federal Election Commission.

FACT: As Senator McCain plainly stated, while “the administration wanted to share in the widespread public approval of campaign finance reform by . . . signing the legislation . . . he’s cooperating behind the scenes with opponents of the law in Congress and on the Commission to weaken it as much as possible.” Bush sat on the Weintraub nomination until the Bush FEC issued regulations creating huge loopholes contrary to the express language of the law to permit (i) party committees to raise soft money through independent committees, (ii) federal officials to engage in fundraising, and (iii) permitting candidates to raise soft money through independent committees. In the words of Senator McCain, “hey flat-out broke their word.” (Arianna Online 12.09.02, Public Citizen Analysis of How FEC Is Undermining the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002)

CIVIL RIGHTS

LIE: When asked by David Frost about the demonstrators protesting his visit to the UK, Bush responded that “Freedom is a beautiful thing, I would first say, and aren’t you lucky to be in a country that encourages people to speak their mind. And I value going to a country where people are free to say anything they want to say”.

FACT: Under Bush, the FBI has been monitoring political demonstrations and other legal activities such as using the Internet for fundraising for the first time since the Nixon-Hoover era. In addition, after 9-11 then White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said that Americans “need to watch what they say, watch what they do.” Similarly, Attorney General Ashcroft labeled any criticism of the Patriot Act as aiding terrorists. (Daily Mis-Lead 11.24.03)

LIE: Attorney General Ashcroft told there “is no evidence of racial bias in the administration of the federal death penalty”.

FACT: A September 2000 Justice Department report concluded there was racial bias in the administration of the federal death penalty. (People For the American Way – Report on Attorney General Ashcroft’s First Year)

CLINTON BASHING

LIE: At the 2000 Republican National Convention, Bush claimed that if ‘called on by the commander in chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, ‘Not ready for duty, sir.’”

FACT: This claim was contradicted by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Defense Secretary Cohen and Bush’s own foreign policy advisor Richard Armitage. (Franken – Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them)

LIE: The Bush administration spread stories that the outgoing Clinton administration vandalized the White House with obscene graffiti, file cabinets glued shut, phone wires cut and pornography left on fax machines.

FACT: The General Accounting Office found no evidence of vandalism, wires slashed, equipment damaged or other evidence to match the allegations. (Boston Globe 05.28.01)

LIE: The Bush administration claimed that regulations issued during the final weeks of the Clinton administration were “ill-considered” and “ill-intentioned”.

FACT: Virtually all regulations issued during the final weeks of the Clinton administration had been developed over a period of years and are consistent with practices of prior administrations. (Washington Post 06.09.01).

DEFENSE & VETERANS AFFAIRS

(UPDATED!) LIE: Bush has lauded the “great courage” of those serving in Iraq and has proclaimed that “ur men and women in uniform give America their best and we owe them our support.”

FACT: Bush’s support has been in words only, as he has requested major cuts in the Impact Aid program providing funds for the schooling of 900,000 children of military families. (The Daily Mis-Lead 10.13.03)

In addition, one million children living in military and veteran families are denied child tax credit help in the President’s tax cut, including 260,000 of children with parents in active duty. (Center for American Progress 12.13.03)

LIE: Bush told the VFW that “Veterans are a priority of this administration . . . and that priority is reflected in my budget.”

FACT: In 2003, Bush killed an emergency funding request that included $275 million for Veterans’ medical care, while his 2004 budget requests falls $1.9 billion short of maintaining what the American Legion called “an inadequate status quo.” (The Daily Mis-Lead 10.21.03)

LIE: In June 2001 Bush stated that the US would not deploy a missile defense system “that doesn’t work.”

FACT: Bush then proceeded to deploy the missile defense system even though a General Accounting Office report found only “limited data for determining whether the system will work as intended.” (Corn – The Nation 10.13.03)

EDUCATION

(UPDATED!) LIE: In signing the No Child Left Behind Act, Bush declared “We’re going to spend more on our schools and we’re going to spend it more wisely.”

FACT: Bush has under funded the No Child Left Behind program by $6 billion for FY2004 alone and by $15 billion over his first three years. Most of the under funding is in the area of Title I of the Act which provided funds to schools with low income or disadvantaged students. (The Daily Distortion 10.24.03, New Democratic Network 12.02.03)

LIE: In a September 2003 speech, Bush claimed that his budget boosted spending for elementary and secondary education to $53.1 billion -- a 26 percent increase.

FACT: Bush’s budget for elementary and secondary education is only $34.9 billion (his entire education budget is $53.1 billion) and the boost he refers to is actually a $900 million cut. (Corn – The Nation 09.15.03)

ENERGY & ENVIRONMENT
(Including Black Out Lies)

LIE: The Bush administration claimed that its regulation of mountaintop removal mining (i.e., leveling mountain peaks to extract coal) would improve environmental protections.

FACT: The Bush administration rejected a tougher Clinton administration proposal and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) determined that the administration’s proposals “cannot be interpreted as ensuring any improved environmental protection.” The FWS also found the Bush proposals “belie four years of work and accumulated evidence of environmental harm, and would substitute permit process tinkering for meaningful and measurable change.” In the two decades since the practice began, 724 miles of streams have been buried and 7 percent of the Appalachian forest cut down. (Shogren – Los Angeles Times 01.07.04).

LIE: The Bush administration claims that its Health Forest Initiatives will “improve forest health and reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfires while upholding environmental laws restoring our nation’s forest”.

FACT: Congressional Research Service reported that the initiative may increase the risk of fire since “imber harvesting removes the relatively large diameter wood that can be converted into wood product but leaves behind the small material, especially twigs and needles” that contributes to such fires. The impetus behind the bill was not to prevent fires, but because the timber industry wanted to “increase commercial logging with less environmental oversight.” (Center for American Progress 12.13.03)

LIE: The administration claims that it has offered stringent new rules that will result in dramatic reductions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides and mercury.

FACT: The administration’s new rules weaken Clean Air Act requirements for mercury emissions by requiring that plants reduce such emissions by only 1/3 of what is required by the Clean Air Act – reducing current emissions from 48 tons to 34 tons by 2010 instead of a reduction to 5 tons by year 2007. The rules also will result in 1.4 million tons more of air pollution. (Daily MisLead 12.05.03, Center for American Progress 12.13.03)

LIE: The Bush administration claims it has imposed “stringent new rules on power plant emissions”.

FACT: The new Bush rules gutted Clean Air Act restrictions to allow utilities to avoid having to install expensive new anti-pollution equipment when they modernize their plants. The EPA’s civil enforcement chief resigned in protest, while another senior EPA lawyer wrote to Christie Whitman that the administration “seems determined to weaken the rules we are trying to enforce. (Center for American Progress 12.13.03)

LIE: In 2002, EPA’s Assistant Administrator for Air Quality Holmstead told two Senate committees that the proposed rule changes gutting the Clean Air will not “have a negative impact on enforcement cases.” In response to questioning as to whether discussed the impact of the proposed rule changes with EPA and Justice Department enforcement officials, he replied, “Yes, that was one of the primary issues that was discussed. What I can say is, based on numerous meetings that I have had, which included staff attorneys from
FACT: At that time, EPA enforcement agents repeatedly told Holmstead and others that the proposed rule changes would inevitably undermine ongoing clean air enforcement cases, possibly by prompting courts to accept a more lenient standard. EPA’s former chief of enforcement stated that the new rules “substantially complicate current litigation and act as a disincentive for companies to settle.” A General Accounting Report also concluded that the policy will hinder current enforcement actions (Pianin – Washington Post 10.10.03, Shogren – Los Angeles Times 10.24.03)

LIE: In promoting his New Source Review rule, which rewrites the Clean Air Act to permit older power plants to upgrade without installing pollution control devices, President Bush stood outside Detroit Edison Monroe Power Plant claiming that existing EPA rules were too complicated to permit the plant to implement upgrades quickly.

FACT: The Edison Monroe plant, which is the 8th largest emitter of sulfur dioxide in the US, had received the go-ahead from the EPA to proceed so long as it adhered to its stated intention of not increasing emissions as a result of the project. Under the new Bush rule, Edison Monroe can increase its emissions by 30,000 tons per year or 56 percent. (The Daily Mislead 09.17.03)

LIE: A 2003 EPA ad campaign targeted at Hispanics claimed the administrations “Clear Skies” initiative would “create purer air, better health and a more brilliant future for the United States.”

FACT: The Bush initiative would allow power plants to discharge additional levels of sulfur dioxide, mercury and nitrogen then currently permitted under the Clean Air Act. Sulfur dioxide and other pollutants are associated with diseases such as emphysema and asthma that disproportionately afflict minority populations (The Daily Mis-Lead 10.20.03)

LIE: In 2001, Bush reversed a Clinton administration regulation reducing the arsenic levels in drinking levels from 50 ppb to 10 ppb claiming that the regulation was a last minute decision, with EPA administrator Todd-Whitman claiming the 10 ppb standard was not based on “the best available science.

FACT: The new EPA standard was the result of a decade of work. After the Bush administration reversed the 10 ppb, the National Academy of Sciences found that the 10 ppb standard was not only scientifically justified but that the standard could be less than 10 ppb. Under pressure, the Bush administration reinstated the 10 ppb standard even though the “best available science” suggested a lower standard was warranted. (Corn – The Nation 10.13.03)

LIE: The Bush administration claimed that drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) was necessary to “secure America’s energy needs.”

FACT: A US Geological Survey concluded that drilling at ANWR would yield only approximately two years worth of oil consumption. (Corn – The Nation 10.13.03)

LIE: President Bush stood before a Snake River dam and claimed credit for an increase in salmon populations in the Pacific Northwest.

FACT: Experts stated that he increased salmon was due to weather and tidal patterns in the Pacific Ocean. The increase happened in spite of the Bush administration which has fallen short of court mandated targets to improve salmon habitats and water quality. Wild salmon are still below the levels necessary to ensure their long term survival. In the summer of 2003, the water levels for the Snake and Columbia River violated the targets 93% and 100% of the days, while also violating the Clean Water Act temperature standards 77.5% and 77.4%. (American Rivers 2003 Salmon Migration Report Card 10.03.03, New York Times 10.14.03, Geranios – AP 10.16.03, New York Times.)

LIE: In August 2003, the EPA denied a petition from environmental groups asking the agency to regulate carbon dioxide and other emissions from new vehicles, claiming that EPA lacked the authority to regulate greenhouse gases.

FACT: The claim that EPA lacks this authority is contradicted by case law and the opinion of two prior EPA general counsels. (Zitner, Polakovic and Shogren – Los Angeles Times 08.29.03, Lee – New York Times 08.29.03)

LIE: Vice President Cheney wrote to Congress requesting that they rein in the GAO’s investigation of his Energy Task Force meetings claiming “documents responsive to the inquiry concerning the cost associated with the work” have already been provided.

FACT: The GAO was forced to go to court to obtain the documents and lost. Cheney only produced 77 pages of useless documents which was not a complete production in response to the GAO’s request. Cheney stonewalled the GAO to hide the cozy deliberations the task force had with energy industry representatives. (Dean – Findlaw.com 08.29.03)

LIE: As a candidate, Bush criticized the Clinton administration for not making a greater investment in the nation’s electricity grids and promised he would seek modernization of the grids.

FACT: While the Bush White House initially called for steps to modernize the electricity grids, it did nothing to implement them. Even worse, it allowed House Republicans to defeat Democratic efforts to spend $350 million on grid modernization and played an active role in derailing $2 billion in low-interest loans for expanding transmission capacity in the Pacific Northwest. (American Politics Journal 08.16.03; Allen – Washington Post 08.23.03, The Daily Mis-Lead 10.15.03)

LIE: Secretary Norton told Congress that drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge would not harm the region’s caribou population. She also reissued a scientific report as a two page paper that claimed drilling would not result in a negative impact to wildlife.

FACT: Secretary Norton “altered or omitted” key scientific conclusions prepared by federal biologists that contradicted her view. Biologists also found that drilling would harm must oxen, snow geese and polar-bear populations and would violate an international treaty protection bears, but these findings were suppressed. In the words of one Fish and Wildlife Service Official, “to pass along facts that are false, well, that’s obviously inappropriate.” (Politics and Science in the Bush Administration, Kennedy – Rolling Stone 12.11.03)

LIE: Vice President Cheney argued that ANWR drilling would only affect 2000, acres of Dulles Airport out of a total 19 million acres.

FACT: The 2000 acres Cheney cities are not contiguous. In fact, the oil is located in 35 discrete sites spread across the reserve and to extract oil it would be necessary to have roads and a pipeline covering 135 miles of wildlife habitat. (David Corn 4.13.01)

LIE: During the 2000 campaign, Bush pledged to impose mandatory emission reductions for carbon dioxide.

FACT: Bush abandoned this pledge once elected. (CNN 03.13.01, Washington Post 03.25.02)

LIE: President Bush claimed there is insufficient scientific evidence of global warming as part of his justification for withdrawing from the Kyoto Treaty.

FACT: The National Academy of Science’s 2001 report stated that there is general agreement that the observed warming is real and particularly strong within the past 20 years” and that most of the warming “observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.” Similarly, an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found that global temperatures were rising dramatically and this was due in part to human-induced emissions. (Revkin – New York Times 01.12.03, Corn – The Nation 10.13.03.)

LIE: Bush asked Congress to exempt the military from environmental laws protecting endangered species and migratory birds on the grounds that compliance hampered military training.

FACT: A General Accounting Office report found little evidence to support this claim. (New York Times 07.09.02)

LIE: Bush claimed that conservation would be part of his national energy policy.

FACT: The White House spokesman indicates “that’s a big ‘no.’ The President believes that is an American way of life.” (ABC 05.07.01)

LIE: Bush campaigned that he would expand the “aims of the Tropical Forest Conservation Act ask Congress to provide $100 million to support the exchange of debt relief for protection of tropical forests.”

FACT: Bush has provided no new funding for the program. (Boston Globe 04.10.01)

LIE: In 2002 Bush promised Nevada residents that “sound science, and not politics, must prevail” in the selection of a nuclear waste dump.

FACT: The Bush administration is proceeding with creating a nuclear waste dump in Nevada despite a GAO report that scientific testing to determine the facility’s viability would not be complete before 2006. (Washington Post 03.25.02, Christian Science Monitor 03.05.02)

LIE: Bush sought to justify oil drilling in Montana’s Lewis and Clark National Forest on the grounds that the people of Montana support it.

FACT: The plan is opposed by Montana residents, but supported by outside oil companies. (Missoula Independent 4.26.01)

LIE: During the tight 2002 South Dakota Senate race, Bush appeared at a South Dakotan ethanol plant and pledge that he supported ethanol “because not only do I know it’s important for the ag sector of our economy, it’s an important part of making sure we become less reliant on foreign sources of energy.”

FACT: Bush’s FY2004 budget eliminates funding for the bioenergy program at the South Dakota plant. (Caught On Film: The Bush Credibility Gap)

ENRONGATE & SEC

LIE: Bush attempted to distance himself from Enron’s Kenneth Lay by claiming Lay supported his opponent (Governor Richards) in 1994 and he first got to know Lay only after elected.

FACT: Lay gave $37,500 to the Bush 1994 campaign and Lay claims he was “very close” to Bush at that time. (Slate 01.17.02) The Bush-Lay connection goes back much further, as in 1988, Bush lobbied the Argentinean government to award a contract to Enron. (Mother Jones March-April 2000)

LIE: Bush pledged to increase SEC enforcement in signing the Sarbanes-Oxley corporate reform legislation.

FACT: Bush’s FY2003 budget cuts SEC enforcement by $209 million. (Boston Globe 12.29.02)

LIE: In the Enron aftermath, Bush pledged “to do more to protect worker pensions”.

FACT: Four month’s later the Bush administration announced plans to permit employers to convert traditional pension plans into “cash balance” plans that lower benefits for long-serving workers. (Caught On Film: The Bush Credibility Gap)

FAITH-BASED INITIATIVES

LIE: In 2001 the Bush administration promised to create a $700 million “Federal Compassion Fund”.

FACT: The President did not allocate a single penny for the fund in his 2001 budget. (Green – The American Prospect 07.30.01).

LIE: The Bush administration claims there exists a “widespread bias against faith-based organization’s (FBOs) in Federal service programs” and that complying with federal anti-discrimination employment laws in a major obstacle to FBO participation.

FACT: Recent studies have found no barriers to FBOs participation in government programs and “no hard evidence that hiring requirements are keeping
FOREIGN POLICY

LIE: During his African tour, President Bush touted legislation authorizing spending of $3 billion per year over five years to help fight AIDS in Africa and declared that the Congress “must fully fund this initiative, for the good of the people on this continent of Africa.”

FACT: That same week, the White House asked for only $2 billion of the $3 billion authorized for FYE 2004. The Bush administration strongly opposed Congressional attempts to increase this amount. The Bush administration now plans to ask for only a small increase in spending for FYE 2005. (Bumiller – New York Times 08.26.03, Center for American Progress 12.13.03, Global Aids Alliance 12.02.03)

LIE: On November 24, 2003, Bush boasted that we “put the Taliban out of business forever.” Similarly, in a September 2003 address to military personnel and families in California, Bush claimed “Afghanistan today is a friend of the United States of America. It is not a haven for America’s terrorist enemies.”

FACT: Bush’s November statement came after a series of US casualties in Afghanistan, a day after the Taliban attack Kabul’s most prominent hotel and on the very same day that the Afghan Foreign Minister desperately requested more help in fighting off the Taliban. The resurgent Taliban has forced the UN to remove it staff from parts of the country and led the German ambassador to warn that they threaten the country’s efforts to form a democratic government.

In addition, Afghanistan remains a haven for Al Qaeda, including Osama bin Laden who is believed to be in remote tribal areas near the Afghan-Pakistani border. Bush allowed Al Qaeda and bin Laden to regroup by withdrawing resources from Afghanistan for the Iraq war. (Corn – BushLies.com 9.13.03, Daily Mis-Lead 11.25.03)

LIE: In his October 28, 2003 press conference, Bush claimed that I was the first president ever to have advocated a Palestinian state."

FACT: On January 7, 2001, President Bill Clinton said, "There can be no genuine resolution to the conflict without a sovereign, viable Palestinian state that accommodates Israel's security requirements and demographic realities." (Corn – BushLies.com 10.28.03)

LIE: During his Asian tour, President Bush told Indonesian news that Congress has dropped opposition to military training programs for Indonesia and that the US was ready to “go forward with” a new package of training programs.

FACT: Congressional opposition to the training programs has increased due to concerns that the Indonesian military may have been involved in the killing of two Americans in Papua. In addition, no new programs have been planned or approved. (Priest – The Washington Post 10.20.03)

LIE: White House spokesman Ari Fleischer denied tacitly endorsing the Venezuelan coup by stating that the coup was the “result of a message of the Venezuelan people.”

FACT: That is exactly what he said as the White House foolishly backed the overthrow of a democratically elected government and was the only democracy in the western hemisphere that failed to condemn the coup. In addition, the Venezuela government claims to have a videotape of US officials discussing coup preparations with dissident soldiers. (Jonathan Chait 06.04.02, AP 10.22.03)

LIE: During the campaign, Bush promised Armenian groups that he would “ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people” who were victims of a “genocidal campaign.”

FACT: The Bush administration has refused to recognize the Armenian genocide. (Redding Record Searchlight 04.24.01)

LIE: Bush promised Jewish leaders “s soon as I take office I will begin the process of moving the U.S. ambassador to” Jerusalem.

FACT: Bush has suspended any action to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. (Washington Post 06.13.01)

LIE: President Bush denied blaming the Clinton Administration’s Camp David Middle East peace summit for the Palestinian intifada.

FACT: The day before issuing this denial, Bush stated “we’ve tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn’t all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area.” (Slate 4.18.02)

FOREIGN TRADE

LIE: During the campaign, Bush stated he opposed “import fees” and would “work to end tariffs and break down barriers everywhere, entirely”.

FACT: As President, Bush has imposed tariffs on steel and softwood lumber increasing costs to U.S. businesses and consumers and risking retaliatory sanctions. (Washington Post 03.25.02, Business Week 03.25.02)

HARKEN & HALLIBURTON

LIE: Bush claims that he “absolutely had no idea and would not have sold had I known."

FACT: Harken’s president warned board members of liquidity problems that would “drastically affect” operations two months before Bush’s stock sale. Harken’s lawyers also circulated a memo warning executives and directors not to sell any stock. Bush sold his stock for $4/share and it quickly dropped to $1.25. (San Francisco Chronicle 07.05.02, Guardian 11.02.02, Washington Monthly 12.02)

LIE: Bush claims to have cooperated with an SEC investigation of his Harken transactions.

FACT: Bush quashed evidence that Harken’s lawyers advised Bush and other executives against selling their stock and only provided it to the SEC after it had ended its investigation. (Guardian 11.02.02)

LIE: Bush signed an agreement in which he promised to hold the Harken stock at issue for six months.

FACT: Bush sold the Harken stock two months later. (The Dubya Report 07.18.02)

LIE: Bush claimed he timely filed the required SEC disclosure form after selling his Harken stock and asserted that the SEC must have lost it.

FACT: Bush did not file until eight months after the deadline for doing so. (Washington Post 07.04.02)

LIE: Cheney claimed that while at Halliburton he imposed a “firm policy” against trading with Iraq. “e’ve not done any business in Iraq since the sanctions imposed, and I had a standing policy that I wouldn’t do that.”

FACT: Senior Halliburton executives claim there was no such policy. Halliburton’s affiliates signed contracts with Iraq to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment during Cheney’s tenure, helping Iraq increase crude exports by 450% between 1997 and 2000. Senior Halliburton executives were certain Cheney was aware of this business. Cheney also defended circumvention of a Clinton executive order banning US trade and investment in Iran. (Financial Times 10.05.00, Washington Post 06.23.01)

HEALTH CARE & PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

LIE: The Bush administration touted the Medicare prescription drug expansion as creating a modern Medicare system that provides “seniors with prescription drug benefits” and establishing Health Savings Account (“HSA’s) which will allow more Americans to save for health care needs and more small businesses to help workers secure health coverage.

FACT: The Congressional Budget Office projects that 2.7 million retirees will lose their current drug coverage through their former employer since employers will drop such coverage once the Medicare benefit becomes available. The plan provides little relief for low income seniors and would cost seniors with drug expenses under $835 per year more than they currently spend. Finally, according to studies, premiums for employer-based coverage “could more than double” if HSA’s became widespread. (Center for American Progress 12.13.03)

LIE: During the debates, Bush claimed that “all seniors” and not just poor would be covered under his plan.

FACT: Only seniors at or below 135% of the poverty level would be covered in full. (ABC News.com 10.4.02)

LIE: President Bush has argued that medical malpractice reform and allowing small business to buy group insurance would make “a big difference” in reducing the 43.6 million Americans without health insurance.

FACT: According to the Congressional Budget Office, malpractice costs account for a very small fraction of total health care spending and even radical reform ‘would have a relatively small effect on total health plan premiums”. In addition, the CBO found that allowing small businesses to buy at group rates would only add coverage for 0.6 million people, as one-third of the nation’s uninsured are employed by large companies. (The Daily Mis-Lead 10.23.03)

LIE: In banning research on embryonic stem cells, Bush claimed that the ban still would permit research on “more than 60” existing lines cells which “could lead to breakthrough therapies and cures.”

FACT: Only 11 cell lines are now available for research, all of which were grown mouse cells making them inappropriate for treating people. (Politics and Science in the Bush Administration)

LIE: Bush claimed he “brought Republicans and Democrats together” to enact a Patients Bill of Rights in Texas.

FACT: Governor Bush vetoed such a bill in 1995 and when a veto proof majority passed it, Bush allowed it to become law but refused to sign it. (Washington Post 10.18.00, Salon 10.05.02)

LIE: Bush bragged about a Texas Children’s Health Insurance Program extending coverage to 500,000 children passed while he was Governor.

FACT: Bush fought the program and tried to limit its reach to nearly half its current level. (Salon 10.05.02)

LIE: Bush stressed the need to support children’s hospitals at a 2001 appearance at an Atlanta children’s hospital.

FACT: Bush’s first budget proposed cutting grants to children’s hospitals by 15% and his FY2004 budget proposes to cut these grants by 30%. (Caught on Film: The Bush Credibility Gap)

HOMELAND SECURITY

LIE: The White House claims that it has given first responders and public health systems “the training and equipment to prepare, prevent and respond to any future attack.”

FACT: The White House now concedes that it has not provided enough money to protect against terrorist attacks on American soil. At the same time, the Clinton administration program to add 100,000 cops to local police forces is being rolled back because of funding cutbacks.” (Center for American Progress 12.13.03)

LIE: After September 11th, President Bush promised to take “every possible measure” to guarantee the security of the homeland.

FACT: The Council on Foreign Relations task force headed by former Republican Senator Rudman (which in 2001 warned against a catastrophic terrorist attack on US soil and called for the creation of a Homeland Security Department), concluded that the administration was spending only one-third of what is required “to adequately provide for emergency responders.” (The Daily Mis-Lead 10.02.03)

THE RECESSION

LIE: In his December 28th radio address, Bush claimed that the recession began before he took office.

FACT: The economy was still growing at the end of 2000. The recession began during the first year of the Bush administration. (Slate 12.30.02)

2003 STATE OF THE UNION LIES

LIE: Bush vowed to expand AmeriCorps by 50 percent.

FACT: Funding for AmeriCorps has been cut by $100 million forcing the program to cut volunteers from 2,400 to 575 and close 17 of its 20 programs. (Marshall – TomPaine.com 08.12.03)

LIE: “To date we have arrested or otherwise dealt with many key commanders of Al Qaeda”.

FACT: Most Al Qaeda leaders remain at large, including Osama bin Laden and September 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. The US has captured and/or killed as many as 16 lower echelon Al Qaeda leaders. (AP 12.27.02, Institute for Public Accuracy SOU Response)

LIE: “We are working with other governments to secure nuclear materials in the former Soviet Union and to strengthen the global treaties banning the production and shipment of missile technologies and weapons of mass destruction.”

FACT: The Bush administration has cut funding for programs to remove nuclear materials from the former Soviet Union, rejected a Russian proposal to eliminate thousands of nuclear weapons (preferring instead that they be kept in “storage”), and blocked efforts to strengthen treaties preventing the spread of biological and chemical weapons. (Institute for Public Accuracy SOU Response)

LIE: Bush asked Congress to “add to our security with a major research and production effort to guard our people against bio-terrorist, call Project Bioshield. The budget I will send will propose almost $6 billion to quickly make available effective vaccines and treatments”.

FACT: Bush proposed no increase in funding for the National Institute of Health but this did not stop Bush from a photo-op visit the day his budget was released. (Milbank – Washington Post 02.07.03)

LIE: “We will not pass along our problems to other Congresses, to other presidents and other generations.”

FACT: Bush’s budget calls for a record deficit of $307 billion deficit without even including the potential cost of a war with Iraq.

DECEPTION: “Ninety-two million Americans will keep this year an average of almost $1,100 more of their own money” if Congress enacts Bush’s 2003 tax cuts.

FACT: Nearly one-third (31%) of all taxpayers, would receive nothing and 64 million taxpayers (nearly half (48%) would get less than $100. An average taxpayer (middle fifth of the income spectrum) will only receive $256 while those with incomes of more than $1 million will receive $90,200. Bush’s statement is technically correct, but very deceptive since it conveys the notion that 96 million Americans would receive something close to $1,100. (Citizens for Tax Justice, The New Republic – 02.10.03)

DECEPTION: One of Bush’s “compassionate” proposals in the speech was “a $450 initiative” to bring mentors to disadvantaged children and children of prisoners.

FACT: Bush’s 2004 budget allocates $50 million for mentoring prisoners’ children but cuts other mentoring programs by $64 million. (Milbank – Washington Post 02.07.03)

http://www.bushlies.net/pages/7/index.htm (Reprinted with full permission)

Want more credibile information about Bush* and the GOP?

http://www.house.gov/appropriations_democrats/caughtonfilm.htm

What I wanna know is - Why would YOU believe ANYTHING that comes from Bush?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. LMFAO
That should do it, assuming a level of lucidity which is probably sadly lacking. :-)
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. Why should we 'encourage' other countries...
...to help Bush* OR Kerry to murder more innocent people?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. We NEED Nato or UN.. not individual countries
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 12:51 PM by SoCalDem
at this point.. The "coalition" was crap.. We did all the heavy lifting.. Junior "trashed Mom & Dad's house while they were out of town" and now he needs to hire a professional cleaning crew..not a bunch of his hung-over friends..

There will be no lessening of violence until a formal peacekeeping force is in there.. and it MUST include Arabic forces too..

Other countries have budgets and obligations too, and I cannot fault them for being a little pissed off that they are now going to have to commit money to clean up a mess that George made.. EVERYONE (well almost everyone) told him.."Don't DO it".. but he blundered in anyway, and NOW he sees that he can't do it alone...and now they will all have to come to his assistance..and he's not even going to be apologetic or even grateful.
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BradCKY Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I agree
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 12:53 PM by BradCKY
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. Note to John... Spain must do what SPAIN wants to do..
Kowtowing to the "make-nice" crowd is NOT what will get you a new address in Jan 05..

The new guy in Spain went out on a limb to "support" you, and give some cover to the "...leaders who want you to win.." story, and now you cut him off at the knees by saying soemthing dumb like that???

bad move ...

I can hear *'s next speech now.. "..Even John Kerry thinks that Spain should stay in Iraq"..

Words matter...measure them carefully :eyes:
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. We just LOST the election.
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 12:50 PM by revcarol
Kerry pulling the "we will decide your foreign policy and mess in your internal affairs" card will NOT go down well with DEMOCRATS, GREENS, LIBERTARIANS AND INDEPENDENTS.

i AM FURIOUS.Why vote for a Dem when....
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gone fishing Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. damn!
he needs to stick to his domestic agenda
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. this is a toughie
if he endorses spain's pull out he will be in trouble with the people who see spain's election as a victory for the terrorists.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. indeed
he'll get spun as pro-terra no matter how he responds

once again, terrorist violence works in Bush's favor. Awfully convenient, no?
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. "We just LOST the election"...huh?
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BradCKY Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Typical
Exaggeration on this board. :) BTW I grew up in Louisville (St. Matthews area), parents are still there, what part of town are you in?
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revcarol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. We have just seen Aristide overthrown by U. S. orders in Haiti,
a plot (continuing) by Bush to overthrow Chavez in Venezuela,and continuing violence in the country we invaded, Iraq, with 7 killed over the weekend...and Kerry wants to tell them to stay when their people said NO? Talk about same-o, interfering in another nation's affairs. Just cut off Zapatero at the knees and rub salt in Spain's wounds...

He could have waited and said: We will welcome Spain as part of an international peace-keeping force...

But they haven't even mourned their dead yet.

And WE are rubbed raw by The Bush's messing in other countries' affairs and don't need same-o, same-o.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. more DU exagerration
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 03:11 PM by sangh0
and Kerry wants to tell them to stay when their people said NO?

Kerry doesn't want to "tell them" anything. He was asked his opinion, and he gave it. That's difference than issuing an order to Spain and giving an opinion is also different than "interfering in another nation's affairs"

And WE are rubbed raw by The Bush's messing in other countries' affairs and don't need same-o, same-o.

"WE"?? Exactly who are speaking for, or are you exagerrating again? Most Americans are NOT rubbed raw by Haiti, Venezeula, and Spain. Most American don't give a damn. Kerry's campaign is not going to pander to you.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. and Kerry was "toast" in the primaries many times
all kinds of people declaring him dead at various points.

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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Yeah, right
It used to be "Kerry lost the primaries when he voted for IWR" That proved to be a bust, so now it's "fill-in-the-blank" is why Kerry won't win the election"

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
35. Here ya go.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
14. WTF?
Is he a Democrat or a Republican?

:wtf:
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Relax
He's the candidate that wants to have a real international force in Iraq. Of course he wants Spain to stay in. I thought part of the reason people would vote for Kerry was because he would work harder to bring more international troops into Iraq. Yes, the war was a mistake, but we should still do what we can to get other countries to support the clean-up effort. Telling everyone else to abandon us only puts more of our troops at risk and costs us more $$$. That's not good.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. no, that's NOT the reason why
i'm voting for kerry. i really don't care for him and i want our troops out of iraq, heck, make that ALL troops. the ONLY reason i'm voting for him is TO OUST *USH! THAT'S ALL!
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. A lot of people
both on our side and in the middle don't see it that way. There are many people who don't think getting out of Iraq now is the best move and who think the only way to get things done is with a UN approved international force. Kerry speaks to those people very well, I think.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. err this is really poor policy
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 01:02 PM by Marianne
the Spanish guy, Zapatero, was elected,on a promise to remove troops from Iraq if elected. He is fulfilling his promise to his people. This is called "honor' and he is honoring the people by attempting to be true to his promise.

Apparently Kerry is of a similar mind as Bush--the people do not matter--they are in error and Zapatero is in error for being honorable--this is really disappointing and leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Kerry is looking out for himself too much. He is stabbing his faithful supporters in the back. I am sorry I sent him my meager money, which was a big deal to me living only on SS. No more. He has to wake up that we do not like being jerked around, either by an idiot like Bush, or by a good old
Washington boy like Kerry. I just lost a little of my trust and respect for him.

If Kerry keeps it up, the pandering and politics, instead of true intents and purposes, I will not vote for him--I will vote socialist and the hell with the country under Bush. I cannot save it from itself.

It will have deserved four more years of Bush and will not longer be my country. I will move to Canada where this kind of shit and betrayal of the American people may not be as pronounced--I will see no difference at all in a vote for Kerry or Bush and neither will a lot of people I know.

This my friends is exactly what has caused the downfall of the Democratic party in America today. This blending and melding in an attempt to play politics is maddening and is mad. When you cannot trust you own party, why should you vote for anyone in that party? Over the past three years or so, we have seen this pink tu tu taken out of the closet and worn again and again. We CANNOT trust anyone who goes this route. Why doesn't Kerry realize that? I thought he was something he isn't.

I guess because he may perceive that there is no other choice for people who hate Bush but to vote for him. He has the vise grips on us. I don't like it.

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berner59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Kerry didn't promise to pull troops out...
He's always said said he can't cut and run...that would more of a disaster... He's always said we need more countries to help so why is this awful for him to ask spain to reconsider???
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
49. He has no jurisdiction in Spain and is disrespectful to their process
this has nothing to do with the US staying in Iraq. It Bush he should be assailing for the mess in Iraq. Instead of jumping on the Spanish people who are taking a beating from right, left, up and down for the perfectly natural act of practicing their democracy. He should concentrate on giving the US some real information we can put our teeth into on what he plans to to do in Iraq. He is laying back and taking cheap shots at a "safe" target.(politically)

He should be pointing out to Bush and others that democracy really works when it is allowed to flourish and that a man's word given and then followed through is the sign of an honorable man with integrity-he adds to the villification of the people of Spain and that is really cheap. I really do not like this at all. I thought better of him.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
20. it's inconceivable that he would NOT say this
Kerry obviously has committed to keeping U.S. troops in, even increasing troops there.

And at the same time, he is emphasizing the need to get other countries involved.

How would anyone be surprised that he's arguing for the Spanish to stay?
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I agree, Cocoa
I don't like it, but I'm not surprised.
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. also worth remembering
that Spain will only pull troops out if the UN is not in charge by June (which, admittedly we all know isn't going to happen). It's hard to comment on what Kerry said (& I doubt it was simply "Spain shouldn't pull its troops out.") without seeing the text, but I would guess that he was emphasizing the need for multilateral (& UN sanctioned) involvement & what Bush could be doing to keep Spain in.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. I hate this invasion
This is like a trap door you go through, It also sounds like the US civil war. In the US Civil War the Union had many things they could use, but in the first part of the war they were hamstrung by inept generals. Their is no way to get out without watching ther Iraq and the rest of M.E. turn into a mad house. Bush could make the whole thing work out and admitting his mistakes, but he never will.

And if Kerry is saying Bush is wrong on his poor planing and the contingencies laid out for the stupid invasion, I agree. This is *'s invasion, plain and simple

If Kerry comes out and says that he against having the U.N. do anything to assist, then the test is on.

Btw, when was the last time you said to your Friends "get lost, I don't want to be your friend anymore, because you won't help me"

Being angry at anyone else because a guy like * wont take responsibility seems irresponsible in itself
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. he should talk about using the UN to strengthen and legitimize the
'coalition'.

he should mostly be HIGHLIGHTING shrub's FAILURE with our coaltion partners as well as SECURITY and NOT telling spain what it should or shouldn't do. :crazy:

he has 0 control over it anyways but plenty of control in pointing out the FAILURES of the neoCONs current policies, no?

he should be pressuring shrub to let the U.N. Security Council take charge of the rebuilding of iraq.

a LOT of folks can stand behind that.

peace
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think this is consistent with his IWR vote.
We ain't got no peacenick here folks.

I also think this is consistent with what voters want. Remember, a large majority in this country supported the Iraq war. I don't think it's any surprise that we've got a hawk for a nominee.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. You know, as a long term Kerry supporter...
he is really disappointing me here. When will the Dem candidate learn that you can't run a successful campaign by being on the defensive all the time and blowing with the wind. He needs to stand for something and he needs to stick to the domestic agenda right now.

Put the attention on what it really important to voters!! Jobs, economy, education, social security etc. Get a solid platform, and if you are going to attack idiot boy on the Iraq war, for god's sake don't start making comments like the above!! He's coming across as a total wuss as far as I'm concerned. He started out great, what's going on - he seems to be losing momentum!

We need a fighter and someone who is not afraid to stand up for what our party represents. I hope he gets it together soon.
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Capt_Nemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
27. Spain to Kerry:
If you want us to keep the troops in Iraq, convince the shrub to
hand over completely the political authority in Iraq to the UN
by the end of June. If you can't deliver you'd better shut up!
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. that's not very likely
although the UN is going back into iraq i doubt mil control will be turned over to them.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
33. Got a link
for that statement? I'd like to read what he actually said in context.

Thanks.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. Yes, we really do need a Link!!!
Lots of people are flipping out without actually reading what Kerry said.

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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. This is today's speech -- but
can't find any mention of Spain or the recent bombing -- so guess he must've added it in.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.html
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Like * hasn't flip flopped
I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times he done the same thing. Probably a Faux news watcher. They never tell the truth either.
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BabsSong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
42. I don't care if Kerry is right or wrong on this
..I'm interested in perception. I don't like him to agree with Bush on anything. That's the crap we did for three years that Dean got so mad about and fired up this party. If for one fleeting second people in this party think "oh, shit, here we go again", the party's over. Personally I think only Muslims should be allowed to 'police' Iraq - get together a coalition of Muslim countries and pay them 87 billion a year. Opps, forgot, ... oil.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
43. What a sellout speech
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
50. Is it any friggin wonder why the Left can't get traction in opposing...
...this so-called 'war' when so many Democrats support it?

- ABB is becoming literally the ONLY reason to vote Democratic in 2004.
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Aidoneus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. the other pro-occupation candidate supports the occupation?
big shock.. film at 11. :eyes:
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