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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:47 AM
Original message
Mugabe "the freedom fighter"...
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 03:54 AM by arcos

Picture taken from http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/02/19/france.mugabe/


Zimbabwe's torture training camps

President Robert Mugabe's government has set up secret camps across the country in which thousands of youths are taught how to torture and kill, the BBC has learned.

The Zimbabwean government says the camps are job training centres, but those who have escaped say they are part of a brutal plan to keep Mugabe in power.

<snip>

In accounts gathered by BBC Panorama from dozens of youths, it appears that for many of them the training in the camps begins with rape.

Debbie said she was raped three times on the first night, but claimed that the abuse didn't stop then.

<snip>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3493958.stm

----

Out of Africa

<snip>

In a keynote address that opened an international book fair, President Mugabe justified his government’s decision to exclude a gay rights group from the fair, saying, “If we accept homosexuality as a right, as is being argued by the association of sodomists and sexual perverts, what moral fiber shall our society ever have to deny organized drug addicts, or even those given to bestiality, the rights they might claim and allege they possess under the rubrics of ‘individual freedom’ and ‘human rights’?”

<snip>

In Washington, D.C., U.S. representatives Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) organized 70 other members of Congress to sign a letter of protest to President Mugabe. “We are distressed to read of your attack on people who are gay and lesbian,” the letter began. A State Department official said on August 7 that there was a “possibility” that the Clinton administration would contact the Zimbabwean government over the issue.

<snip>

The party line against homosexuality in Zimbabwe is that being gay is “un-African” and a white contamination of black society. But GALZ members argue that in many cases black Zimbabweans face greater cultural and economic hurdles to coming out than do whites—which creates a perception that being gay is a white thing. While the membership of GALZ originally was mostly white, in a country where whites account for only about 11% of the population, today about half of the group’s 220 members are black.

<snip>

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/801/801_mugabe_689.asp

-----

Zimbabwe’s Fred Phelps

Robert Mugabe has a new problem. Well-known for his crusade against legal rights for gay men and lesbians in his country, the president of Zimbabwe is now taking on Tony Blair, saying the British prime minister has turned Great Britain into a “United gay Kingdom.”

At a November meeting of commonwealth leaders in South Africa, Mugabe flew into a rage. He accused Blair of organizing the October 30 London protest in which gay activists attempted a citizen’s arrest of Mugabe as he was leaving his hotel. Blair has “three homosexuals in his cabinet,” Mugabe said, fuming. “People who are homosexuals are queer because they think differently.”

<snip>

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/801/801_mugabe.asp

-------

Former Zimbabwe leader denied hero's burial

Zimbabwe's government has refused a hero's burial to the country's first black president, Canaan Sodindo Banana, citing his conviction for homosexual offenses, officials said Tuesday. President Robert Mugabe's elite policymaking body, the 30-member politburo, decided Monday that Banana would not receive a state funeral at Hero's Acre cemetery outside the capital, Harare. The politburo "could not accord Banana hero status as a matter of principle," spokesman Nathan Shamuyarira told state radio. Banana set a "bad example to youth" with his 1998 conviction for homosexual offenses against junior statehouse staff, Shamuyarira said.

<snip>

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?id=10523&sd=11/19/03






Yes... Mugabe "loves" freedom!!! :puke: :puke: :puke:
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. As far as Im concerned, Chavez can rot for his support of Mugabe.


I now completely support overthrowing that asshole and taking every last drop of oil from his little country. I would pull the trigger myself if I could.

How's that for liberal tolerance.

If Bush said that he wanted to invade, and eliminate Mugabe tommorrow I would be fine with it.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. well, I don't support a coup...
Chávez was democratically elected and should remain President. But I have to admit I am VERY disappointed he's associating himself with such an authoritarian asshole like Mugabe.
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. well, I dont supprt a coup either.


I support an all out war against Mugabe and Chavez for supporting him.

If it was sold as a humanitarian mission a la Somalia, I would supprt it 100%. Just drop a daisy cutter on his entire family.

He is scum. The Hitler of Africa, and we go after Saddam. Ugh.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. A daisy cutter for Chavez?
Back it up with more than some tacit support of Mugabe on his part. Please enlighten me.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What is your source for Chavez supporting Mugabe?
The broken link in the other thread that talks about Chavez referring to him as a freedom-fighter? So ONE AP writer writes this ONE comment..are we sure that Chavez really even said it?

And even if he did say it, do we know what he meant? Our politicians called a lot of nasty creatures "freedom fighters". Chavez likely sees the world through the lens of his fight to keep freedom for the masses of the Venezuelan people.. or the fight to stay free from US dominance in their political system. Through that lens, he could have simply been recognizing that they were both struggling to stay free from outside interference. Maybe he hates Mugabe and disrespects everything about him, but it's politically expedient to make ties where he can. Who knows?

Was he stretching for something cordial to say...if we could hear Donald Rumsfeld's public words when he visited Saddam, do you think he said 'you evil dictator!'? Maybe there was some irony there..the loaded history of the phrase 'freedom fighter'..

Finally, it's not ABOUT Chavez..it's about what the PEOPLE of Venezuela want.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:18 AM
Original message
That is the most ignorant bullshit I've heard in a long time
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 09:19 AM by ChavezSpeakstheTruth
You must be proud

Woops - meant to reply to Reply 1.
Wow!
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. When Kerry becomes president if he continues to support and host
The Saud Royal Family, Hosni Mubarak, Hu Jintao, Alvaro Uribe, The Northern Allaince, Ariel Sharon, Islam Karimov and so many others. Should he rot as well? Just wondering.
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TinaTyson Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Absolutely.
The forces ready to take over in Zimbabwe will be a major improvement for the country. But that is why Bush won't be knocking them off any time soon.

It isn't about Chavez. It is about democracy in Venezuela. Chavez is no Aristide, but he is no Mugabe either. His national guard, though far from perfect, is a major improvement. I don't think the opposition has the mass of the people in minds.

We need to work with him until the next elections. See if we get to monitor and what the results are. Fair or not. And then start to think about other means if things don't improve. But we shouldn't even consider it until then.

Sadly the real truth is that since groups like the National Endowment for Democracy are funneling money to the opposition it may be hopeless at this point.

The attempted coup of 2 years ago is supposed to be down the memory hole. And oddly Chavez and his own attempted coup too. Most likely because it opens the door to remind of the failed coop.

I don't know why he did such a foolish thing I suspect he has some misguided notions of southern country unity against the western (former?) slave masters.

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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 05:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, some people on the left need to read up on Mugabe
The guys a real scumbag.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Some people who think they're on the left need to read up on neocolonial-
ism and neoliberalism.

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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Mugabe and Chavez...
..are peas in a pod.

Both of them are thugs. Both of them deserve no support from anyone whom cares of human rights.

Hopefully Chavez's endorsement of Mugabe will open some eyes on DU.

Imajika
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Nah, they'll go on embaressing us
Although I think Chavez is more of an opportunist than a thug, Mugabe is DEFINITELY a THUG.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Neoliberalism is the biggest assualt on human rights there is.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. not all foes of neoliberalism...
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 01:53 PM by arcos
really support human rights. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. And definitely Mugabe is not a human rights defender or a friend of liberal causes.

"Mugabe improved health and education for the black population at the beginning of his regime. In 1991, due to economic mismanagement, Mugabe began a programme of free-market reforms, but the International Monetary Fund suspended aid because the reforms were "not on track". "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

Free-market reforms?? Oh, I thought he was against neo-liberalism....

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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. i keep asking this: is the term "thug" reserved only for non-whites?
e.g., non-white "dictators?" never hear bush called a "thug."
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Chavez, blah blah blah, thug, Castro, blah blah blah, dictator, blah blah.
Is that close enough?
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Gee, "Rape Rooms", now I'm convinced.
Perhaps some bashing of babies brains out would be good too.

So here, read about Mugabe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe

No very Christlike, to be sure.

I'm still trying to figure out how hatred for Chavez
justifies theft of Venezuela's oil, but maybe that wasn't
supposed to make sense.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Politics is like a cesspool
Edited on Wed Mar-17-04 07:34 PM by 9215
the shit floats to the top.

When you support somebody in politics you always end up in the position of having to defend them when they are wrong. Chavez is wrong here as he has been a couple of times in the past.

I hate politics because you are forced to watch as someone who is decent otherwise get eviscerated while playing against a stacked deck like the BFEE. I support Chavez for the good he is doing for his people, but I cannot see how supporting "the beast" Mugabe is doing good at all. Forced by geopolitical circumstance the politico is part of a group and therefore must compromise. Someone like Bush, a soulless sniveling coward, thrives in this environment because his only concern is power and he will do anything to get it. His long close relationship to Al Qaeda supporting Saudis and Kuwaiti slave holders is all but unknown because the facts about it,documented,numerous and damning are systematically squelched. The double standard is never understood because the Public never hears about these connections from a Press controlled by Bush.

Politics is like a cesspool the shit floats to the top.

We end up as always, with the imperfect person like Chavez, or Clinton or JFK , in a crazy world who doesn't have the means to cover up all his imperfections while the truly vile like Bush and his ilk cover up everything. It seems this specie is destined to live in a world run by fascists, because all the vile shit they do is never realized by the population of imbeciles they cultivated, manipulate and then send to the executioners chamber in a resource war or some other fascist enterprise. Then every imperfection of those opposed to them is pumped out 24/7 by a media largelly controlled by the fascists.

Then we have the mindless, soulless shitbrains, some on this board, that find these imperfections in otherwise good people and work 24/7 to expose them while ignoring the sleaze of their fascist brethren. They are the ones I would like to take a fucking baseball bat to just for the fun of it, but wouldn't because I'm to nice of a guy.

If Venezuela goes down the tubes I just hope I get to see some of these soulless pricks get trampled under the feet of the downtrodden. I always like to see justice, maybe that is because it is so rare.

This is how fascism prevails and probably always will. Bush will cancel the elections, shit people don't vote anyway, and this specie will go out with a whimper. But that is probably what it deserves, it doesn't want to do the work to survive.


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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Of course he's wrong. Every US president has also been wrong.
Everyone of them including Carter has embraced tyrants. The Shah and Somoza included. Eventually he might have changed his mind I can hope the same for Pres. Chavez.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. It is more the similarity of the dynamics of the
cesspool and politics that absofuckinglutlely makes me want to rip some fascist pricks head off. Just look at the vile piece of shit that represents this country. You would never know he did anything wrong if it was solely up to the corporate whore press.

Chavez may well be driven out of power and his country invaded by this fascist pig of a dictator we have all on the grounds that Chavez is not a good guy. I'll say this now. If that happens I will be rooting for the people in the streets of Venezuela and will shed no tears for any US troops that get killed there--they will get what they deserve. Iraq was bad enough but this would be too much.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm with you!!!!!!!!!!!
Couldn't say it better myself!!!!!!!!
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-17-04 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Yes, yes, yes!
I could wish that Chavez hadn't said what he did about Mugabe, but
Mugabe was once a socialist freedom fighter, so that's probably
what he meant. And right now, Chavez needs all the friends he can
get, and one comment out of whack doesn't make him a criminal.

After all, look at the unsavoury people that Bush is embracing these
days. Come to think of it, he's always embraced shady people, so
that's maybe not such a good analogy.

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