"Passion" - fueled anti-semitism spreading to teenage moviegoers...

[AngryYoungMan]

I was just looking around at the Internet Movie Database (out of boredom) and clicked on the pages for upcoming movies. When I clicked on "Scooby Doo 2" I saw this discussion thread topic:

"Jewish Organizations Will Be Protesting This Film . . ."

Curious, I clicked and read what kids were posting. It's not pretty. Take a look...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0331632/board/nest/6835926

This upset me more than most of the dire developments of the past few months. It's really chilling and ugly to see teenagers (presumably) posting about how "the Jews killed Christ" and making up satirical "Jewish" figures like the "Goldfarb" invented in the first post. Go look; I urge everyone to see what Gibson et al. have fueled.

[jpgray]

1. Sorry, but if it wasn't Gibson, it would be something else.

You can't deprive people of all stimuli that causes hate. In fact, trying to suppress it in many cases stirs up a controversy brings the stimulus to more and more people. The publicist for the Passion was rolling on the floor with tears of joy and laughter I'm sure once the controversy got rolling. No way anyone would stop by and drop $10 for essentially a Sunday School movie with corn syrup unless this controversy came along for the ride.

edit: There is a kind of ignorant person who will form these opinions, and will use whatever is readily available to justify them. The Passion is one of those things, but it is hardly the root of the problem.

[AngryYoungMan]

4. Did you read the posts?

I disagree with you. It's directly based on the "Passion" controversy. We weren't seeing stuff like this when "Philadelphia" or "Schindler's List" were raking in millions.

[jpgray]

7. Did you read mine?

Come on. Bigotry is a great canard to play for someone to get rich and/or powerful. Does Gibson hate Jews and planned to make an anti-Semitic movie to advance his hatred? I dunno--you can't really *prove* that either way. But now he is getting filthy rich off the controversy. I would say he planned on making the movie controversial, or at least to play up that angle. That bigots use it to justify bigotry is a side-effect, intentional or not.

It's like the fear over Affirmative Action--southern pols don't really care in general. It won't affect their jobs. But those who vote can be easily herded by using the issue, so they use that tool as much as possible.

Yes, idiots will use whatever source they can to justify their ignorance. But that doesn't mean one should suppress whatever stimuli we deem inappropriate. If Gibson's movie had not been so controversial, it would have sunk like a stone. It's a Sunday School movie with corn syrup that has been turned into a 'do you think it is controversial!? Better go SEE!!!', and this thread itself is a part of that. :)

[Goldom]

2. the characters in scooby doo are jewish??

I never knew that...

[jpgray]

3. I think that part of it is a satirical comment

The anti-Semitism that concerned the original poster was in the replies.

[AngryYoungMan]

5. But it's in the original post, too!

The person who made up the satire was trying to sound like "The Onion" or whatever, and may not even realize the ugliness of the joke.

A kid making up "The Irv Goldfarb show" sounds like Hitler Youth to me. It's like "Emmanuel Goldstein" in 1984.

[noahmijo]

6. Mel hasn't fueled anything

First off before ANYONE makes judgements on what this movie's message is or what it's content is about WATCH THE MOVIE. Not for nothin but I'm getting sick and tired of people screaming accusations about it without even having seen it.

First off the movie shows quite clearly that there were two Jews in the high council that attempted to save Jesus. Jesus himself was a Jew, Simon the one who helped Jesus carry his cross was a Jew, EVERYONE except the Romans in the movie were Jews! You saw the good Jews and the bad Jews. There are good and bad in every group.

Secondly the message in the movie: love your neighbors treat all as your brothers and sisters. While Jesus is on the cross he calls for the forgiveness of those who did this to him. In other words, his message to you: If I can forgive the group of people who brutalized and put me to death surely you can forgive the wrongdoings of those who did wrong to you.

Lastly, anyone who leaves this movie with anti-Jewish feelings came into the movie with those feelings. It is ridiculous to think that this movie could make someone anti-anything. As a Catholic I came out of the movie even more determined to be mindful of others and kinder.I'm not sure what other demonitions of Christianity preach but my religion tells us that it's sinful to hate any religious group due to the fact that their belief brings them closer to God..albeit on a different path but presumably a noble one nonetheless. No you atheists aren't bad in our eyes either you were granted freewill to think and choose as you wish and I personally would be there for anyone straight, gay, atheist, goat-worshipper whatever because that's what I feel is my duty as a Catholic.

Claiming this movie makes you anti-Jewish is like saying listening to Howard Stern will make you a lesbian or a sex maniac. I don't notice any Italians protesting the brutal portrayal of the Romans (who appeared to be the biggest bad guys in the movie)

Nobody denies that the Jews had a hand in Jesus's death. So what do you expect Mel to do? just put the blame on some other group? okay then next time a Holocaust movie is made let's say it was the Swiss and not the Germans. We don't want to offend the Germans. This new movie "The Alamo" I as a Hispanic should go protest it I suppose because it may cause "Anti-Mexican" sentiment. I should demand that they put The French in place of the Mexicans.

Let it go people, if you just hate Christianity and want to direct those feelings towards this movie, fine but from what I understand we liberals and liberal leaners don't like lies. Was this movie 100% accurate? no, but it is thus far the most accurate portrayal I've ever seen according to my studies and readings, but it is a lie to claim that it's nothing but a blood soaked anti-Jewish piece of propaganda.

[AngryYoungMan]

8. Excuse me but you need to be better informed about this.

There is a controversy in the Catholic church that goes back to the 1960s, when the Vatican II council took place.

At that time, the Vatican took the unprecedented step of altering its position on the gospels, BECAUSE OF THE ANTI-SEMITISM that those documents are infused with. The Vatican II edicts SPECIFICALLY adjust the Catholic Church's position on the gospels as a direct result of the violence done to Jews in the name of Christ's teachings. (Violence like the Crusades and the Holocaust; all done in the name of Christ.)

Remember, this is the Vatican; an entity so stubborn in its thinking that it did not admit that Galileo was right until the end of the 20th Century. It takes a lot to get them to change their minds.

The four Gospels do not agree with each other about the specifics of Christ's life, death, and Resurrection. Nor do they agree with other accounts of His life (even those elsewhere in the New Testament).

Mel Gibson belongs to an obscure sect of Catholicism that REJECTS the Vatican II council. Remember he was raised by a man who believes to this day that the Holocaust is a fiction. Gibson's version of The Passion has come under fire by Catholic scholars and priests as well as Jews because of the retrograde and exaggerated presentation of Judeica and the role the Jews played in Christ's life and death.

Before you start ranting you need to learn more about what's going on here. This is not an innocent film presenting the Gospels as written. It is a deliberate act of defiance against the modern Catholic church.

[villager]

12. "Most accurate portrayal?" No...

...not even accurate according to the gospels:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=38632

[AngryYoungMan]

13. Every time I see that Rorschach avatar it brings a smile to my face.

"Big figure. Small world." Love it.

[villager]

14. hurm!

& thanks!

[ex_jew]

9. Oh Tosh !

The original post (which is of course tongue in cheek) was NOT inspired by Gibson's movie. Instead, it addresses the endless warnings by Dershowitz, ADL etc. about the wave of anti-semitic violence that the movie would cause, none of which of course happened. That's the whole point - that nervous Jews over-exaggerated what turned out to be a non-existent threat.

So now when that perfectly valid point is brought up, your reaction is of course: I told you so - there's the anti-semitism. Please ! Wake me up when you find something really worrisome.

By the way, I noticed that Second City TV had an "Irv Goldfarb Show" many years ago. Perhaps they were anti-semites too ?

[jpgray]

10. Well, the Passion WILL be used to justify anti-Semitism

And the movie doesn't have to be anti-Semitic for this to be true. Whether it will outright CAUSE violence is nearly impossible to prove.

[AngryYoungMan]

11. You're telling me it's a COINCIDENCE that a kid made this joke right now.

He would have made the same joke about Jewish groups protesting Scooby Doo (a non-sequitur if there ever was one) if the movie came out last year.

I'm sorry but that's nonsense.

[regnaD kciN]

17. It's called "topical humor"...

You're telling me it's a COINCIDENCE that a kid made this joke right now.

Of course not...no more so than it's a coincidence that people are making jokes about Dubya as president when they weren't doing so in 1995.

One of the most common forms of humor is to take something out of current events and make a joke out of it.

:eyes:

[regnaD kciN]

15. This whole thread is crazy!

One poster there puts up a joke item that, as someone here pointed out, sounds like something out of The Onion, then one other idiot, in a lame attempt to make a joke, comes up with an anti-Semitic comment (for which he gets promptly slapped down), and a few oblivious types start discussing whether or not the characters in Scooby-Doo were supposed to be Jewish.

This is the "anti-Semitic hate" that Gibson's film is feared to generate?

:wtf:

Yep, landmarks in the history of anti-Semitism: the Diaspora, the Crusades, the pogroms, the Shoah, and a parody post about Scooby-Doo 2. Which of these items doesn't fit with the others? Not to knock the real and awful oppression that Jewish people have suffered through the centuries, but this is a little bit like claiming that "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" is an exercise in homophobia equal to the murder of Matthew Sheppard. Or that the "make 7-Up yours" spokesman is as much an example of anti-black hate as cross-burnings and lynchings. And, for anyone who would claim a "slippery-slope" argument: show me one person who, based on reading a parody post about reaction to Scooby-Doo 2, is moved to torch a synagogue or join the skinheads, and I'll admit you have a point. Until then, I think the term "use some common sense" applies.

(Of course, I'm sure there will be those who will be ready to brand us as "anti-Semitic" for just having these thoughts... :eyes: )

[Blayde Starrfyre]

16. You got your [rear] handed to you.

I think it's time you hang your head in shame. First of all, you claim that "The Passion" spurred this on. You claim this is anti-Semitism. Hogwash. If this was a few years ago the person would have been parodying the religious right for their pre-emptive squeals about The Last Temptation of Christ. There are trigger-happy victims of every race, color, and creed. Secondly, you said "teenage moviegoers." Several problems with that. Exactly ONE person on that thread made a "Christ-killer" comment, which near as I can tell was a joke. Secondly, "The Irv Goldfarb Show" was in fact an SCTV sketch. That's a show that is 20 years old. Therefore, do you REALLY think a teenager could have written this? A teen wouldn't even have been alive when Second City was big.

The person who made the original satirical post was not talking about Jews, he was describing people like you you: the person who is looking to be offended at every turn, who will ignore or distort the facts in order to be victimized.

[AngryYoungMan]

18. That's an unfair characterization of me.

I don't think I fit that description at all. The original post on the Scooby Doo site is certainly guileless. I have no doubt about that...that the kid writing it was not thinking hateful thoughts about Jews.

It's a more sophisticated problem. The controversy surrounding Gibson's movie has not been adequately discussed or presented by the media or by community leaders. As a result, children are misunderstanding what they are seeing and are making jokes like the one I cited originally. Their intentions may be "innocent" but the ignorance suggested by the joke is troubling.

Even if this WAS an Onion story, it probably wouldn't run, because wiser heads would prevail. The Onion is governed by an adult sensibility that understands that certain jokes must be made cautiously. The kid posting on the movie page sees "protest groups" on television and does not have an adequate understanding of the seriousness of the issues involved. How do I know? Because the underlying message of his "satire" is that Jewish groups (or other "overly-sensitive" ethnic groups) are overreacting to something they should take less seriously. The joke reveals the paucity of the the kid's understanding, and this is what concerns me. The kids making this post do not understand the controversy surrounding Gibson's movie, and their ignorance has them making jokes and remarks that are deeply troubling.

Not that I'm surprised. At least one poster on this thread has revealed the same kind of ignorance of this movie, what it is, and what it says.

I didn't get "my ass handed to me" at all. I just got attacked by a few people who disagree with me. Some of them follow my argument, some don't. Some have legitimate complaints; some don't. Par for the course on DU.

[Blayde Starrfyre]

19. You're still doing it!

Again, you keep saying "kid, kid, kid." How on Earth is a kid supposed to cite a character and a sketch from a TV show that ran from 1976 to 1984! How is a kid supposed to come up with satire like this which is, whether or not you think it is insensitive of anti-Semitic, not unclever? Moreover, you're citing the post of one alleged "teenager" as evidence of Gibson's movie influencing the plural "teenagers." I wouldn't even call these "flaws" in your argument, I would say they show your argument is absolutely baseless.