Even if Kerry wins Florida, their legislature "could" give it to Bush

[SoCalDem]

Remember their little "technicality provision" regarding their slate of electors??

I would be willing to bet money that if Kerry wins and it's close, THEY will use the BBV argument and give Bush the votes anyway..

They have no scruples.. Tell me they won't..:scared:

[historian]

1. they wont

if they pulll that again there are going to be riots in the streets - mark my words. Kerry wont back down as gore did - hes going fight the jerks to the very end and there is no supreme court ruling this time - that was illegal and Herr Scalia knows it.

[Q]

7. Don't be so sure...

...it wasn't Gore 'backing down' as much as the Democratic party. Gore finally conceded when the SC got involved...but even before that the Party had turned their backs on him. Even his 'running mate' was asking him to concede on national television.

- So...don't count on the Dem party or the people to do anything if Florida gives their votes to Bush* again...as they promised to do in 2000 even if Gore won the state.

[historian]

8. perhaps not

I think kerry is far tougher than Gore - for what its worth after being in Vietnam its hard to imagine anything scaring you. Besides, the dems cant afford another 4 years of the bush cabal - if they let it slide, they can kisses their asses bye bye as a party - i personally would vote for a leech instead of dems if they allowed that.

[dennis4868]

18. I agree....

it seemed that near the end it was Gore out there all alone fighting the battle. We dems should have all gone down to Florida and taken to the streets until every last damn vote was counted....Gore had the repubs, media, the supreme court and near the end the dems against him....he had no chance!

[Catch22Dem]

2. That would be tough to pull off

Even for them. I think we'd see a revolt unlike anything we've seen in this country since the 1860s.

[Florida_Geek]

3. I do not think so, but you are right this

is Jebworld down here.

I do know the Dems in Florida I email to, are going to be watching for Jeb games.

[wicket]

4. If they pull that AGAIN

It's time to take to the streets with guns.

[lastknowngood]

5. And they would to. There majority repugnants

n/t

[JanMichael]

6. Yes they could. We should have NEVER caved the first time.

It sets the bar too low and it wouldn't shock me if they figured that we're just too weak to muster any real response.

[MrMonk]

9. Florida -- who's voting?

Were those 20,000+ purged voters ever restored to the rolls?

[David Zephyr]

10. SoCalDem, This Is Exactly How the 2004 Coup d'etat Will Go Down.

I have hesitated mentioning this here for fear of being labeled even more morose by many than I already am.

However, since you did bring it up (and you can now take the heat), I am convinced that this is precisely how the election will be stolen again.

And not just in Florida, mind you, but anywhere the election results are marginally close and where the Republicans control that state's legislature. The GOP will have one single voter file a lawsuit which will "threaten" the State's "obligation" to meet the "timetable" to send their electors forward. So, the GOP lawmakers will then vote on an "alternate slate of electors" who will be for Bush.

And then, using the Supreme Court ruling that the deadline for sending the electors is imperative, the legislature will then decide to send their "slate" forward, rather than the "contested one" to preserve "democracy".

There is nothing that any of us can do about this.

It is completely constitutional.

And it is the plan of Tom Delay and explains why he has been riding herd on state legislatures controlled by the GOP.

George Bush will never leave the White House in January 2004...even if he loses by three million "popular" votes. He won't have to.

And this time, there will be no need for the Supreme Court to even step in whatsoever.

[ex_jew]

11. I remember Tom Feeney was ready to do this in 2000

but the Supremes made it unnecessary. What you're describing goes way beyond stopping the counting. It's saying we might as well not even bother with the election at all. I don't think many people will go along with that. Hiding behind the Constitution won't prevent a civil war.

[David Zephyr]

12. A Friend Tells Me That Limbaugh Has Boasted About This, Too.

You are right about Feeney.

You have far greater respect for the American peoples resolve to stand up to the stealing of an election than I do. I salute you for this. But I am not so optimistic. The people have already been conditioned by 2000 selection by the Supreme Court and made to fear by the events of 9/11.

People do go along in the end. They will again.

[SoCalDem]

17. You are right about people "going along"

There will be factions who will stand up (like last time), but the majority will probably just be too afraid for their jobs and their lives to put themselves out there..

I was disgusted that not one senator stood up for the Black Caucus when they challenged the 2000 selection. I know that the end result would have been the same, but the effect of backing down was the same principle as backing down from a bully.. It only makes them bolder..

2000 was the "launch" of their new plan
2002 was when they fine-tuned it
2004 will be the proof that their plan worked :(

[HydroAddict]

13. I, for one, WILL go to the nearest Dem riot point

With an axe-handle in one hand and an American flag in the other.

And I will not leave until the votes count or I'm dead.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

[SoCalDem]

14. Don't worry.. That's why the Homeland Security is beefing up

The "first amendment" zones and the heavy-handed treatment of protestors will stop many people from protesting.. Bear in mind too that there a lots of folks who don't even have enough money to fill their gas tanks, so other than a few "uprisings" in some large cities (that the media will downplay), it could go down like he says..

I have said this many times before.. Does ANYONE really think that Bush & his little buddies have grabbed so much power and changed so many things that give the presidency immense power..they have NO intention of turning over those powers to a democrat...no matter what the cost..

It's easier for them to have the people think that "oooh, our guy came so close", and go back to their lives, but they will resort to dramatic measures if they must..:(

[John_H]

15. They wouldn't have done it if Gore had been "ahead" from the beginning

And they won't do it if the first tally has Kerry winning. The best way to fix the FL GOP is to donate to the FL Dems, get down there and volunteer, etc.

[bobbieinok]

16. rememeber in FL2000 and elsewhere, I'm sure, there were

rebpub thugs ready to riot in the street if the opposite had happened (Bush ahead pop vote, Gore in elelctoral)

didn't a group made up of some out-of-state people 'shut up J Jackson' when he spoke at a FL rally?

I remember reports of right-wing boasting about this and W thanking them

[dryan]

19. Florida Situtaiton

I suggest that people read "Too Close to Call" it is the history of the Florida Recount. Among other things, Gore thought it was undignified to have protests in the street.

[SoCalDem]

21. Democracy is sometimes "messy"

Many things are good, but not necessarily "dignified"..
Childbirth is not very "dignified"


Sometimes we NEED to be "undignified".. The repugnants are never afraid pf being "undignified".. It pays off for them :(

[Orangepeel]

20. I don't think it would happen

First, it depends on how they get certified. I don't remember. If it is just the house, they might try it. If it takes both the house and the senate, it won't fly. They are both controlled by republicans, but the republicans in the Florida senate aren't nearly as crazy as the republicans in the Florida house.

Also, there were circumstances last time that worked heavily against Gore in terms of public perception -- the media calling it for bush, the almost concession, the "fact" that bush was ahead at the end of the day and it was Gore that needed uncounted votes to be found.

But even so, I think there would be a big difference in most people's minds between the court saying, "we don't need to do anything else, let's just say the vote is what it seems to be now and call it a day" and the legislature saying, "the popular vote doesn't matter, we can elect who we want." If the Supreme Court hadn't stopped the vote and the legislature HAD certified bush electors even if Gore had been ahead, I like to think there would have been more of an outcry.

[ulTRAX]

22. In 1860 South Carolina Refused to Have An Election

The state legislature just nominated EC Electors for Brickenridge who ran as a pro-slavery candidate.

[dryan]

23. Florida

Personally, I think that there should have been a lot more protests in the streets, but Gore asked Jesse Jackson not to stage them after he initially appeared in South Florida.

[ulTRAX]

24. what I REALLY find astounding.....

Is that the Democrats throughout the entire nation have not risen up after 2000 to demand that anti-democratic abomination called the EC be abolished. Instead only a few voices were raised... and generally the Democrats have been AWOL from the fight for democracy itself. But then unless they want to mount a direct and sustained challenge to the logic of our anti-democratic Constitution.... I bet they're just hoping this rigged system will again work in their favor.

The Democratic Party may shy from the fight from democracy... but they certainly don't shy from moral cowardice and mindless devotion to the status quo.

[SoCalDem]

25. Numbers...

The repugnants control both houses and they like it just the way it is..

It's been discussed for years, but the party in power usually is content with it, so nothing ever gets changed..

It's downright STUPID, but it's what we are stuck with.. The whole thing came about as an antidote for the 3/5 ths garbage.. It should have gone by the wayside with the civil rights legislation..