Anti-Abortion Mobile? Have you seen this?

[Anaxamander]

I was driving to school and stopped at a light when a huge truck, probably about the size of a large U-Haul drove past with an enormous mural of a dismembered fetus at 10 weeks in full-blown reds and pinks. It red "Choice" and also pictured a dime (for scale, I guess). What the fuck? I almost wanted to follow it and see where it was going. I'm not even sure what company (or person) it belonged to or what it was hauling. What kind of propaganda will they think of next? God, that really pisses me off!

Has anyone else (in other cities) have seen this/these pro-life trucks?

[Mountainman]

1. Some cities have not allowed them to drive around

It is from some anti abortion group that is driving that truck all around the country. They started last year.

[elfwitch]

2. no but if I had...

I would have followed it to find out where it came from and then take a big can of spray paint back after dark. What I would do to it would make Brian's "Romans Go Home" graffiti in the Life of Brian look like armature hour.

[jmowreader]

6. A big can of spray paint? You're thinking too small!

Stop by Home Depot and pick up an air tank, an air hose, a spray gun and a portable scaffold. Then stop by a car paint place and buy a quart of primer and some thinner.

Within 20 minutes after arriving at the Truth Truck's parking spot, you could paint one whole side of the vehicle.

[Muddleoftheroad]

51. Not a good way to treat Freedom of Speech

Or perhaps you'd rather just spraypaint the Constitution?

[trogdor]

8. Romanes Eunt Domus!

Sounds like a cool name for a blog!

[elfwitch]

9. Romans Go the House?

It says Romans Go Home...
No it doesn't!

[stopthegop]

10. don't care for all that free speech crap huh?

at least not for the other side?

[elfwitch]

14. They can do it as much as they want...

And so can I.
They have the right to parade that disgusting shit around town. I have the right to voice my opinion against it.

They have the right to blockade clinic doors and terrify already frightened women.
I have the right to call them assholes to their face.

I'm not stopping free speech. I'm just exercising mine as well.

[stopthegop]

15. spray pointing their truck would be preventing theirs...

your fist...their nose...

[lapislzi]

21. Vandalism is not protected speech.

You know better than that.

Oliver Wendell Holmes: your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins.

[elfwitch]

28. My vandalism is far less distructive....

than their fire-bombing and web site "hit lists".
Sometimes you have to do what you can with groups that don't play fair. I would never advocate violence against them, because that it their MO. However a little lawless disobedience against those that would stick their noses in a very private medical procedure isn't too far out of line.
Just the fact that you have people with the temerity to picket a place that does legal medical procedures pretty much takes them off my let's play nice list.
You don't see people picketing heart surgeons or laser eye surgery clinics do you? Why? Because those are private procedures between a doctor and a patient. And thus, they are nobody's business but the doctor and the patient.
But the pro-life folks think that it is their business to come between the two interested parties in this procedure. The make it so much their business that they use scare tactics, mis-information, and bullying to keep women away from clinics.
I have no sympathy or patience for these people.

[lapislzi]

29. I am in NO WAY suggesting that the anti-choice faction plays fair

I despise their message as much as you do. Their tactics are disgusting, and that is exactly why I will not stoop to their level. It doesn't make the behavior right just because you're doing it for a cause you believe is morally right. Remember, they think they're just as justified. It ain't so.

I have no issue with your stance on abortion rights. We're on the same side, completely.

I simply don't believe that some vandalism is OK if it's a cause you believe in; while other vandalism is not because the other guy's message is one you find distasteful. It's either vandalism or it isn't.

There is more legitimacy to the argument that such displays are obscence (but I don't hold with that either; see below).

Ignore them. Fight them in the papers; show their position for the morally bankrupt one that it is; boycott their businesses; scream and shout if you will. But stooping to their level is...well, just that.

[elfwitch]

33. And that would be fine if...

the fight was fair. But you can't beat cheaters by fighting fair. Cheaters will always cheat. It all boils down to a great couple of lines in a Mel Brooks classic:
Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

You know why our side loses so often? Because we aren't prepared to fight just as dirty as them. The moral high-ground is fine if both sides practice a similar form of morality. The other side has no concept of any sort of high-ground. If you take a fight to the mud, you gotta get dirty to win.

[lapislzi]

36. the anti-choice brigade has not won

They are desperate, in fact, because the law is NOT on their side. They will do anything to win. That don't make it right; and they are prosecuted when they break the law, as they should be. As I would expect to be if I broke the law.

For once, the law is on our side with this one. We should be glad that we don't need to resort to civil (or un-civil, as the case may be) disobedience on this issue. (To simplify my argument, I'm leaving out late-term abortions, which I think do require civil disobedience on the part of medical professionals, but that is not the scope of this discussion)

Funny, I was on the other side of this argument the other day, in a similar thread. I was accused of being unethical because I was prepared to fight dirty. And I am. Just not about this; not when it involves compromising the free speech rights of my enemy. But I wouldn't muzzle a Nazi either.

Ultimately, some of us are going to get dirtier than others in the fray, and not every player will play in every scrum.

[elfwitch]

37. But I wouldn't muzzle a Nazi either.

I would. No punishment is too harsh for them considering what they did to my kind.

[lapislzi]

45. don't confuse protection of first amendments rights with endorsement

my point is, you can't call yourself an advocate of free speech if you're going to cherry pick whose message is allowed.

You also have to pick your battles; not everything is worth breaking the law over. There is legal redress for dealing with Nazis and hate crimes, and there is the (albeit limited) protection offered women by Roe v Wade. Remember, the anti-choicers are the ones breaking the law in this case, and the minute the nazis cross the line, they will be prosecuted. There is no legal latitude for nazis these days, not that there ever should have been. I don't think we can ever relax our guard, but for now we can and should let the law function as it is intended. If there ever comes a day when the law no longer functions, then I will join you on the barricades.

As of today, though, I would not support you in the commission of a crime against nazis, or in the commission of vandalism againt the anti-abortion mobile, although I can understand--and share--your feelings in both cases.

[outinforce]

57. Disgusting?

"Disgusting shit"?

Why, whatever are you talking about, elfwitch?

I thought the pictures under discussion were mere pictures of blobs of tissue.

Why should you, or anyone else for that matter, be digusted by pictures such as this?

There is certainly nothing human in the pictures.

So why the disgust, and why the desire to cover these pictures over?

[displacedtexan]

3. Haven't seen that one, but My favorite way to piss off anti-choicers is...

walk up to them (while they're protesting in front of Planned Parenthood) and THANK THEM FOR BEING THERE (very loudly).

Then I point out (also loudly) that women would probably never know they could get an abortion there if the protesters weren't there to call attention to the fact.

tee hee hee...


I've never been a worshiper at the Church of the Sacred Sperm.

[meegbear]

4. BHAW HAHAHA!!

That's awesome! Bully for you!

[notadmblnd]

23. I think I'll try that next week.

I took my son to the orthodontist last Saturday and there were protesters (men) out front of the building next door. When I brought it to the receptionists attention, she told me they are there every Saturday (when the womens clinic is closed). She said they are not there any other day of the week.

He's going to be getting braces and I imagine we'll be spending a lot of Saturdays at the office. If you have more good lines to use on them, I'd love to pass them on.

[drdigi420]

24. i do the same thing to ppl protesting adult toy stores

talk about pissing them off when they realize they are advertising for the place, not discouraging anyone from shopping there

[Catherine Vincent]

35. That's a good one!

[FireHeart]

5. Never have seen that one.

But I kinda wish every freeper would have watched "Cold Case File" last night. Man, that brought back memories of the horrors when abortion was illegal. They described the terror those poor kids had to go through in order to try to live a normal life.

So many of today's women have forgotten those days. If things work they way it's looking, they'll have a rude (and tragic) awakening.

[jamierobinson]

7. i've seen worse

I saw a state issued license plate, from alabama no less, this is one of the "issue plates" that many states issue...save wildlife, save the manatee, remember the challenger etc...

this one at the top read, "Choose Life" with catoon characters of kids on the plate as well....hmmmm....wonder what this is about.

Jamie

[elfwitch]

11. many states have those...

AND... wait for it....
Some of the proceeds from the sale go to Pro-Life charities.
Those states fund Fundies.

Check your state Special License Plates division to see what sick shit is available in your state.

Here's one for Texas...

[meegbear]

12. Like George Carlin said ...

"Those women against abortion. Who'd wanna fuck 'em anyway?"

and :party: WELCOME ABOARD! :toast:

[newyawker99]

39. Hi jamierobinson!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[lapislzi]

13. My daughter's Girl Scout troop boycotts a local St. Patrick's Day parade

because of that thing.

A couple of years ago, we (the girls, leaders, and moms) were assembled at the parade's starting point, waiting for our turn to march in the parade. Then this THING rolled past in all its macabre horror. We were aghast. We walked out then and there. The leader wrote to the parade's management, but received no reply.

I don't know if it's still in the parade; I won't go and neither will my daughter or any of her friends.

[ronnykmarshall]

16. I've seen them

It's repulsive.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. It seems that some here have a problem with free speech.

Free speech is protected by our Constitution, as you surely know. That includes speech that you disagree with, speech that I disagree with, and speech that the people who sponsor the truck you saw disagree with.

When you think about vandalizing someone else's expression of free speech,
ask yourself how you'd feel if your car was vandalized because someone disagreed with your free speech, as expressed on bumper stickers.

[SCantiGOP]

18. good point, dembones

I hope that everyone at this forum agrees.

[stopthegop]

19. seems unlikely....

agreeing would apparently be painful for many...

[lapislzi]

20. agreed; vandalism is unacceptable

no matter what the reason. There are better--and legal--ways to express your disgust with the message.

[BiggJawn]

22. Then I should be allowed to drive around with a pix of a Woody...

On the side of my truck.
Me, personally? I think it's obscene. Why not drive a truck around with pictures of dismembered Afghanis on it? "Left-overs" from a leg amputation because Shrub killed the stem cell research that could give people new pancreas? Multilated genitalia?

Recently in Indianapolis, the courts ruled that "Freedom of Speech" does not cover an accurate graphic depiction of a titty-dancer earning her living when displayed on the hood of a car.
By the same token, I can't paint a "woody" on the side of my "woody".
So why should a group be allowed to drive a mobile billboard around displaying the wreckage from a medical procedure?
I think it's obscene, and it'd be a public service to vandalize it.

[thebigidea]

25. I was in the process of writing a similar post about a Sodomy-truck

to drive through the South, but then realized that Moore already did something similar.

HUUUUUUUUUGE CLOSEUPS, so you can see every pore. Whaddya mean, I can't drive it around? Why won't you protect my freedom of rectal-image speech?

[lapislzi]

26. need some legal DUers

on the criteria applied to "obscenity." Also, is it a states' rights issue (I have no idea on this).

In the main, we should be preserving people's rights to free expression, not curtailing them--whatever the message. That's why the ACLU takes such flak for defending the indefensible.

We have to take the good with the bad on this one.

BTW, I would have no problem w/ a picture of a woody on your woody...any more than I would expect you to have a problem with vulva on my Volvo.

[thebigidea]

31. of course WE wouldn't have problems with genitalia on vehicles

but the pro-choice crowd just poooooooooosssibly might.

[lapislzi]

34. Appropriateness vs obscenity

I think it is inappropriate to display genitalia on your vehicle, or anywhere in public, for that matter. However, I realize that that is merely my opinion. The fact that my opinion probably places me in the majority...does that make public displays of genitalia "obscene?"

What ARE the criteria for defining an image as "obscene?"

Fact is, I also find the public displays of the results of abortion equally distasteful and inappropriate. But are they obscene? Is Playboy obscene? Some would say yes. Is Gibson's The Passion of the Christ obscene? I would argue that it is.

However, I would be in favor of prohibiting none of the above.

Obscenity is a particularly difficult concept to define. Very much in the eye of the beholder.

[BiggJawn]

38. But think of the scandal!

If we parked them together?
:7

[lapislzi]

43. Maybe that's the only way I'll get a new car...

or does yours use unleaded?

:P

[elfwitch]

30. happens to me all the time...

I have a on my car
and a

on my doorstep.
The fish was vandalized and the doormat was stolen. All I was doing was celebrating my Judaism.
It ticks me off. But it did show me one thing... It showed me that people in my neighborhood have a problem with Jews.

I have a problem with pro-lifers. I just want them to know it.

[ronnykmarshall]

32. Move to our building

The majority is Jewish.

I always get a kick that at the end of the holiday season there are only two or three Christmas trees at curb for recycle.

Every year, as we drag that bad boy out I say "Us Goya's and these trees!"

[jmowreader]

48. People here have had their cars vandalized...(warning: graphic images)

because someone disagreed with their free speech.

There must be some difference between putting a sticker on your car that says "Bush Lied Soldiers Died" and this...

[FatSlob]

27. May be gross,

But, as a Libertarian Democrat, I have to say that it is their right to parade around with it.

[texasdem99]

41. Tacky, tasteless, offensive, but it is still their right

I think this goes along the same lines as some of the stunts PETA does. IMO, it actually does more to hurt their cause then help it, turning off those who might be on the fence about the issue rather than winning them over to a particular side.

[FatSlob]

42. I couldn't have said it better.

[Kadie]

44. Should they really have this right?

Just asking a question here. Afer all, certain magazines need to be in brown paper wrappers and/or put up out of view of children in the stores? Is this a voluntary thing or is it a law?

[FatSlob]

46. Yes. They should and do have the right.

The paper thing is voluntary.

[lapislzi]

47. The magazine thing

is a choice by a business (Wal-mart) in response to requests from its customers (draw your own conclusions about Wal-mart's clientele). I disagree with it wholeheartedly, but until I sit on the board of Wal-mart, my opinion matters not at all. The magazine publishers may publish what they wish, but it is the choice of Wal-mart to limit access to such materials. If you disagree with the policy, you are free to shop elsewhere. You are also free to purchase the materials, tear the wrappers off, and sit on a bench reading them outside the store.

Free speech in a public place is a constitutionally protected right. (You're also free to be offended, to complain, or to boycott such displays).

[texasdem99]

50. To use the term "slippery slope" correctly for once

The term "Slippery Slope" has been abused recently by the anti-same sex marriage crowd, but I think it really applies here. If you start banning offensive images like aborted fetuses, how far away are we from banning "offensive" images at anti-war rallies such as Bushitler signs, graphic photos of war casualties, et al. Best to let everyone speak their mind, regardless of personal opinion. Again, I think they are turning more people off than winning converts.

[lapislzi]

52. Well said, Pete Puma...

as a card-carrying member of the ACLU, I can attest to the gritted teeth through which I will defend these people's rights to express their beliefs.

Of course, I fully expect them to extend the same courtesy to me. Funny how that parity thing works...

Welcome to DU, by the way!
:toast:

[texasdem99]

53. Thank you for the welcome, glad to be here! n/t

[Kadie]

54. I understand what you all are saying.

and I agree with you. I am going to continue to play devil's advocate here a little longer. :)

My concern is for young children who see these images. As an adult they bother me, and it would really upset me if my child were to see them. I really don't know what my son’s reaction would be to them, but I do know that if I had seen such graphic images as a young child, it would really have been detrimental to me. I was an extremely sensitive child and I would have had nightmares for months if I had witness such images.

It makes me really mad when people, such as the ones with these trucks and displays, don’t stop and think of the harm they could be doing to the children. Even though I agree with their right to get out their message I wish they would find an alternate way to do so. They say they do this to save babies from being aborted, maybe they should think of the children here today.

Anyway, good discussion.

[texasdem99]

55. I'll go even a step further,

It's not just offensive. It's disgustingly vile to put aborted fetuses on the sides of trucks and billboards. But you could argue that kids see vile and offensive images all the time, and might even be a little desensitised to it. Doesn't make it right, but free speech is the trump card that beats all, in my opinion. It's certainly not an easy thing to have to stomach.

[lapislzi]

56. Your concerns are valid

...and one would wish for cooler heads to prevail in such public displays. One would wish for adults to be circumspect in their presentations of their controversial positions.

Much of it has to be decided on a case by case basis, and that is always going to be subject to human bias.

It also goes directly to our responsibilities as parents. We can't protect our kids from everything. We do our best. We use what protections are out there, such as not taking them to "R" movies or adult bookstores. Some shit is going to get through the safety net, and, I ask you, is that really such a terrible thing? You cannot protect them from everything, and you cannot protect them forever. Better they should see it when you are able to mitigate the damage, and explain why such displays are offensive, than when they are 18, and freak out, and maybe get sucked into the ideology due to lack of knowledge.

When it happened to me (see my post above), I used it as an object lesson to my daughter. I explained how offensive I found the display, summarized the anti-choice position, explained how passionately some people believe in it. The kids "got it" right away, that it was a propaganda piece, and the grownups were there to put it into perspective for them. It was clear how offended we were, and I don't think that was a bad message to send.

You get the nightmares when there's no emotional ballast to help you roll with it.

[Kadie]

40. I have seen one too.

Very disturbing to look at. I am not looking foward to the day when I have to explain to my young child what those pictures are. They think they are saving babies, but what harm are they doing to the children who see these horrible images.

[TrogL]

49. We used to have one parked outside one of the hospitals

Didn't seem to accomplish much except accumulate parking tickets.

[Logansquare]

58. "Truth Truck" Operation Rescue

Words escape me:
http://www.operationrescue.org/truthtruck/