This is the horror that the Bu$h admin has created

[Mari333]

The only terrorists I can think of are the ones sitting in the white house.


Iraqi couple commits suicide after learning of son's death

KIRKUK, Iraq (AFP) - A Shiite Muslim couple committed suicide Wednesday near this northern Iraqi city after learning their 12-year-old son had died in the deadly attacks on the holy city of Karbala, police and medical officials said.
"Hussein Salman Aziz, 39, and Saliha Yasser Rufayil, 35, shot themselves in the head and stomach in the village of Mayssalun, 30 kilometres north of Kirkuk," said police officer Khattab Abdallah Aref.

Their son, Abdullah, had taken part in a pilgrimage to Karbala, 110 kilometres south of Baghdad, to mark the holy festival of Ashura.









http://www.brunet.bn/news/bb/fri/mar5w31.htm

[FloridaPat]

1. The US has been the biggest exporter of terrorists for the last

50 years. We've murdered millions of citizens worldwide and destroyed lots of governments for our own purpose.

[kalian]

2. And my question is....

will it really change under Kerry? Will our troops be brought home
and peace bestowed unto Iraq...?

I have some serious doubts...

[burythehatchet]

3. We will long regret not

having given DK a shot

[arcane1]

5. I carry the same sentiment w/me every day, BTH

:evilfrown:

[Mari333]

6. well sure I want the troops home NOW

and get us the hell out of a place we should have never gone into..Im with Kucinich on that one
http://bringthemhomenow.com

[Mari333]

4. The International Community will at least embrace Kerry

and legitamize the occupation. Its already done, and with those assholes like Bremer involved, it can only become more civil war. I would think the muslims of the world would want the Troops OUT and fast..if the UN is in there, perhaps it would take away the sting of this being a US occupation, which is what it is.

[kalian]

8. That's what Americans are searching for....

and IMHO its rather shallow.
Americans appear that they want the rest of the world to give them
their blessings when it comes to invading and killing people.
Yes, Kerry MIGHT be able to sweet talk them into supporting further
invasions...

My question now is...will it make it "better"? Will you then support
these imperialistic actions? Will you sleep better?

I know I won't...

[NJCher]

7. I hope Kerry puts his background as prosecutor to work

The best thing that could happen is that bush and cheney be investigated. While his job as president will preclude Kerry's direct involvement, he is one of few individuals who knows the ropes on these types of investigations.

As far as people saying that the republican majority will prevent this, they may have to bow to public opinion. Remember, we are only now just seeing the anger beginning over bush's lies on this war.


Cher

[kalian]

10. That's not how politics works....

never has and never will.
Imagine if shrub would have spent his time investigating Clinton
for every little thing that the repukes hated him for...

Sorry...not going to happen.

[NJCher]

16. OK, thanks

for letting me know how politics works. You're very helpful.


Cher

[noahmijo]

9. It wouldn't be a good idea to bring the troops home immediately...

No president except a crazy one like Kucinich would bring the troops home right off the bat. With no peacekeeping force of any kind there that country would turn into total anarchy (yes much worse than it already is) and eventually another radical dictator would emerge.

HOWEVER Kerry's proposal seems to be the smartest which is essentially WORK AT bringing the troops home the quickest (not just yanking them out all at once) by doing what Bush refused to do which was share the burden with other nations by negotiating out terms and contracts to them..which Bush refused to do so thus putting the entire weight of this war on our troops.

Essentially Kerry seems to be looking at giving the military more funds starting with distributing the latest body armor (troops are calling home to families to purchase kevlar vests from what I heard because Bush and Co are denying them this "commodity") while working to get other nations involved.

Personally I'm looking forward to seeing Kerry re-establish ties with our French and German allies and other countries we stiff armed. With all of us working together our troops will be either home or safer at least with some help from our allies whom Bush snubbed.

[kalian]

11. Its not about "Iraqi stability"....

sorry...
Its about America's life line to accessible OIL.
Face it...its an imperial oil grab. Kerry knows it as well.

[Mari333]

12. Bring the troops home now

every day they are there they are kids who will die or be maimed for life, and are considered the enemy now, and the occupation. They dont want us there...let the fucking US govt hire their own army if they want to save face so badly...leave our soldiers and reservists out of it.
In the meantime, the mideast hates us when we stand there on their sacred ground. The longer the US presence is there the more they hate us.
It will be a civil war whether we are there or not there. Kerry has a mess on his hands, and hopefully the UN will rush in after we kick Bush out and help out..thats what I hope for anyway..
cleaning up the Chimps mess is going to take years and years and years.

[Sugarbleus]

22. I agree Mari. I've thought about this a lot and

We need to get out forthwith! I posted something similar last night; don't remember where or I'd link to it.

Essentially, they don't want us there. Many were glad Saddam was gone but then they said: 'Go home now' Do we actually believe the Iraqi people are too stupid to fend for themselves? We have helped them to some degree already; give them a few more bucks, relinquish the oil to them, leave a friendly face or two to help with minor stuff and PULL THE TROOPS OUT COMPLETELY. Yes they will fight. We fought in the civil war. It happens. They will continue to rage against us the longer we stay. The "opposition" forces will continue to throw a "wrench" in the works by inciting riots and bombings as long as we are there.
At the Very Leastwe should reduce our troops and pull them all the way back to Kuwait--just linger long enough in Kuwait for only the most severe backup purposes.
Call in the UN and give em what they want. Let other countries have what they want if they will help the people of Iraq. Let our troops come home.
It is NOT cutting and running. It IS doing the right thing. They didn't invite us, they don't want us there one minute longer. Our being there is pissing off the whole middle east. If a tyrant gains leadership, that's on the Iraqi.
WE ARE NOT THE WORLD POLICE!

[Jacobin]

13. they said the same thing about Vietnam......for twenty fucking years

Guess what? After we got our asses run out, the war ended. We now trade with them.

[Mari333]

14. This is becoming another Vitenam. a fraudulent war

started with lies, and assholes who wont leave because they want to save face.
at the cost of thousands of lives on both sides.
There is only one group of terrorists I will fight. They are in the White House.

[Disturbed]

15. Civil War?

I used to think so but recently the Shi'ites and Sunnis have gotten smarter. The may cease their hostilities toward each other and fight the Occupation. They seem to finally realize that the common enemey is the US and the Western Alliance. Even the Kurds are not happy with the US Imperialists, realizing that the US will never allow them a seperate country. The NeoCons have underestimated the Iraqi sense o homeland. All factions may unite against the takeover of their country.

Sastani who is no quesiton the leader o the Shi'ites has stated that he will declare a Fatwa to fight against the Occupiers i they are not out by July.

Big Trouble for Bushco if all the Iraqis unite against their common enemy. Will the American ignorant sheep still support this war if the body count goes to 20K?

[noahmijo]

17. The last two of you have points

Yea true, but let's face it nobody's gonna bring home the troops immediately upon taking office.

Believe me if it were up to me I would've let the inspectors do their jobs and if war was necessary and a real coalition was formed that would've been a far better "shock and awe" tactic. Imagine Saddam and his band of thugs going up against our troops, the crazy Huns of Germany, The valiant fighters of Japan and France, and of course the no bullshit Poles and Russians. Of course this isn't even a fraction of the coalition we couldn've mustered up against Saddam had Bush taken the diplomatic way. Personally that is what I wanted to see before this war began. Maybe Saddam would've just given up without a fight had half the world invaded his empire.

Yea I know wishful thinking at best, but hey logical when you look into the details.

Anyways the best we can hope for is that Kerry will pull this sort of move off, although belated, still much better a plan than Bush's.

By the way I'd go easy on calling us or our troops imperialists. Our government may be pushing the imperialist way, but from what I understand, the majority of our nation hates this war, and our troops were not acting by their own admission in invading Iraq. Continue supporting our troops safe return, namely by helping to vote out Bush.

[Jacobin]

18. Kerry won't do a damn thing any different in Iraq

U.S. interests have been decreed to be bases and oil in the M.E. He is part of the establishment with all their ties to the military industrial complex.

It sickens me to say this, but he won't do a damn thing differently, except not look like quite the idiot that Smirk does while he's doing it.

Gary Hart last week said we would be there for fifty (that's five Oh) years.

[noahmijo]

19. Ehh wait and see before you make that call

And give him at least a year don't expect radical decisions that lead to radical actions within the first week of his term.

Plus Kerry's plan to rid us of our dependence on oil hardly screams partnership with oil moguls.

[Jacobin]

24. I hope you are right

But getting out of that quagmire is going to be extremely difficult. The only real way out is to install another Saddam...some secular military dude that will instill enough fear in the populace to keep the factions from killing each other.

Back to square one.

I do hope that Kerry will push to fund alternative fuel initiatives, mileage standards, etc, as that is how we are going to have to dig ourselves out of this hole of fossil fuel dependence.

This country is like a junkie, jonesing for oil and willing to kill, rape and plunder to get it. It's got to change.

[maggrwaggr]

20. "if war was necessary?" HA! Read this

because it sounds like you haven't already:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/vv/20040220/lo_laweekly/51202&cid=891&ncid=1501

(snip)
Q: You believe that decision was made by the time you got there, almost a year before the war?

A: That decision was made by the time I got there. So there was no debate over WMD, the possible relations Saddam Hussein may have had with terrorist groups and so on. They spent their energy gathering pieces of information and creating a propaganda storyline, which is the same storyline we heard the president and Vice President Cheney tell the American people in the fall of 2002.

The very phrases they used are coming back to haunt them because they are blatantly false and not based on any intelligence. The OSP and the Vice Presidents Office were critical in this propaganda effort to convince Americans that there was some just requirement for pre-emptive war.



Q: What do you believe the real reasons were for the war?

A: The neoconservatives needed to do more than just topple Saddam Hussein. They wanted to put in a government friendly to the U.S., and they wanted permanent basing in Iraq. There are several reasons why they wanted to do that. None of those reasons, of course, were presented to the American people or to Congress.



Q: So you dont think there was a genuine interest as to whether or not there really were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

A: Its not about interest. We knew. We knew from many years of both high-level surveillance and other types of shared intelligence, not to mention the information from the U.N., we knew, we knew what was left and the viability of any of that. Bush said he didnt know.

The truth is, we know didnt have these things. Almost a billion dollars has been spent a billion dollars! by David Kays group to search for these WMD, a total whitewash effort. They didnt find anything, they didnt expect to find anything.

[seabeyond]

21. from the right i heard

better them than us. i would say, we are such the coward you are saying it is ok for their innocents to be murdered as long as it isnt on our land.

horrible i thought

and now i am hearing the left say pull out the troops. who cares about the innocent their it is our american soldiers being killed

to me, (and in empathy to mari who has a son over there and that he stays safe) is just as horrible

one of the ways out of this mess is stop trying to recoup losses and bring in the rest of the world,. in mass,.........and let iraq decide the government and that is what they get whether it is a friendly government to us or not.

but if we leave it wont be a mother and father committing suicide, it will be thousands killed in the chaos and anger and hate. we cannot undue where we are

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Notice that Bush is back to the flypaper theory

even if it means hundreds of Iraqis dying, and the risk to American troops, he's proud of it:
We're aggressively striking the terrorists in Iraq, defeating them there so we won't have to face them in our own country
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040304/dcth059_1.html (Thursday March 4th)

[Mari333]

25. Bush can kiss my royal american ass

and get my kid home now. Send Bush over there and let him take my kids place if hes so hell bent on his fucking occupation. Send Orrin Hatch and Delay and all the other stinking comfortable cowards...
a flying fuck finger to all of those bastards..blackhearted pieces of shit every one of them.