If all the DLC people bolted and became republicans....

[ringmastery]

like many at DU wish, wouldn't the democratic party cease to be competitive in national politics? We would lose dozens of seats in congress and never get more than 40% in national elections.

Don't we need the DLC?

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. In a word...

no

[bryant69]

4. Well I'm convinced

If God Bush and Cheny says it, it must be so. There's no need for further discussion or even a basic argument. Just one word.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[tom_paine]

9. Think about that a minute, Andy.

Now, I don't like the anesthetic effect of the DLC on our will to fight any more than you do, in spite of the fact that many of my positions are probably closer to them than to many DUers (which doesn't mean I like the DLC or give them $$$...I don't).

But think about what you are dismissing out of hand. Maybe you think we would find new votes to replace those old ones and it is importanat to note here than the thread-starter said "become Republicans" not drop out all together.

Do the math. We could not survive such a defection of at least a third of our Party, especially if they started voting for the Busheviks.

Having said that, also consider the wonderful work you and Bev are doing to restore the integrity of our corrupted voting system. People are free to have their opinions and, if your & Bev are successful, to have their votes counted.

No Party can afford to be so exclusionary. Think of the Repugs. The only thing that allows them to be so exclusionary is the fact that

a) They work very hard at lying to hide it

b) They own the Greatest Propganda Machine ever designed by human beings, which helps launder a lie.

Actually, Andy, if Totalitarianism is to be stopped, we need Moderate Republicans to either vote with us or get off their asses and take back their Party from the Totalitarian Orwellian Bastards that have taken it over and are now using them like a condom to f*ck the nation.

I would argue the exact opposite of your assertion is true.

[meegbear]

2. Please define "DLC people"

I'm curious as to what the definition is.

[Killarney]

6. Clinton & Gore are DLC people.

[ringmastery]

7. these senators

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir.cfm

Evan Bayh, U.S. Senator, IN
John Breaux, U.S. Senator, LA
Maria Cantwell, U.S. Senator, WA
Tom Carper, U.S. Senator, DE
Kent Conrad, U.S. Senator, ND
John Edwards, U.S. Senator, NC
Dianne Feinstein, U.S. Senator, CA
Bob Graham, U.S. Senator, FL
Tim Johnson, U.S. Senator, SD
John Kerry, U.S. Senator, MA
Herb Kohl, U.S. Senator, WI
Mary Landrieu, U.S. Senator, LA
Joe Lieberman, U.S. Senator, CT
Blanche Lincoln, U.S. Senator, AR
Zell Miller, U.S. Senator, GA
Bill Nelson, U.S. Senator, FL
Ben Nelson, U.S. Senator, NE
Mark Pryor, U.S. Senator, AR
Debbie Stabenow, U.S. Senator, MI

These house members

Tom Allen, U.S. Representative, ME
Joe Baca, U.S. Representative, CA
Brian Baird, U.S. Representative, WA
Chris Bell, U.S. Representative, TX
Shelley Berkley, U.S. Representative, NV
Marion Berry, U.S. Representative, AR
Earl Blumenauer, U.S. Representative, OR
Lois Capps, U.S. Representative, CA
Dennis Cardoza, U.S. Representative, CA
Brad Carson, U.S. Representative, OK
Ed Case, U.S. Representative, HI
Jim Cooper, U.S. Representative, TN
Bud Cramer, U.S. Representative, AL
Joseph Crowley, U.S. Representative, NY
Jim Davis, U.S. Representative, FL
Susan Davis, U.S. Representative, CA
Artur Davis, U.S. Representative, AL
Peter Deutsch, U.S. Representative, FL
Cal Dooley, U.S. Representative, CA
Rahm Emanuel, U.S. Representative, IL
Anna Eshoo, U.S. Representative, CA
Bob Etheridge, U.S. Representative, NC
Harold Ford, Jr. , U.S. Representative, TN
Charles Gonzalez, U.S. Representative, TX
Jane Harman, U.S. Representative, CA
Baron Hill, U.S. Representative, IN
Ruben Hinojosa, U.S. Representative, TX
Joseph Hoeffel, U.S. Representative, PA
Rush Holt, U.S. Representative, NJ
Mike Honda, U.S. Representative, CA
Darlene Hooley, U.S. Representative, OR
Jay Inslee, U.S. Representative, WA
Steve Israel, U.S. Representative, NY
Chris John, U.S. Representative, LA
Ron Kind, U.S. Representative, WI
Nick Lampson, U.S. Representative, TX
Jim Langevin, U.S. Representative, RI
Rick Larsen, U.S. Representative, WA
John Larson, U.S. Representative, CT
Zoe Lofgren, U. S. Representative, CA
Ken Lucas, U.S. Representative, KY
Denise Majette, U.S. Representative, GA
Carolyn Maloney, U.S. Representative, NY
Jim Matheson, U.S. Representative, UT
Bob Matsui, U.S. Representative, CA
Carolyn McCarthy, U.S. Representative, NY
Karen McCarthy, U.S. Representative, MO
Mike McIntyre, U.S. Representative, NC
Gregory Meeks, U.S. Representative, NY
Michael Michaud, U.S. Representative, ME
Juanita Millender-McDonald, U.S. Representative, CA
Brad Miller, U.S. Representative, NC
Dennis Moore, U.S. Representative, KS
Jim Moran, U.S. Representative, VA
Grace Napolitano, U.S. Representative, CA
David Price, U.S. Representative, NC
Silvestre Reyes, U.S. Representative, TX
Mike Ross, U.S. Representative, AR
Steve Rothman, U.S. Representative, NJ
Loretta Sanchez, U.S. Representative, CA
Max Sandlin, U.S. Representative, TX
Adam B. Schiff, U.S. Representative, CA
David Scott, U.S. Representative, GA
Brad Sherman, U.S. Representative, CA
Adam Smith, U.S. Representative, WA
Vic Snyder, U.S. Representative, AR
John Spratt, U.S. Representative, SC
Charles Stenholm, U.S. Representative, TX
Bart Stupak, U.S. Representative, MI
John Tanner, U.S. Representative, TN
Ellen Tauscher, U.S. Representative, CA
Mike Thompson, U.S. Representative, CA
Jim Turner, U.S. Representative, TX
Tom Udall, U.S. Representative, NM
Robert Wexler, U.S. Representative, FL
David Wu, U.S. Representative, OR

These governors, attorney generals, etc.

Thurbert Baker, State Attorney General, GA
Marshall Bennett, State Treasurer, MS
John Y. Brown, Secretary of State, KY
Cruz M. Bustamante, Lieutenant Governor, CA
Robert Butkin, State Treasurer, OK
Kathleen Connell, State Controller, CA
Cathy Cox, Secretary of State, GA
J. Joseph Curran, Attorney General, MD
Gray Davis, Governor, CA
Michael Easley, Governor, NC
W.A. Drew Edmondson, Attorney General, OK
Michael Fitzgerald, State Treasurer, IA
Bob Holden, Governor, MO
Daniel Hynes, State Comptroller, IL
Thomas Irvin, Commissioner of Agriculture, GA
Patty Judge, Secretary of Agriculture, IA
Tim Kaine, Lt. Governor, VA
Joseph E. Kernan, Governor, IN
Gary Locke, Governor, WA
Jack Markell, State Treasurer, DE
H. Carl McCall, State Comptroller, NY
Ruth Ann Minner, Governor, DE
Mike Moore, Attorney General, MS
Ronnie Musgrove, Governor, MS
Janet Napolitano, Governor, AZ
Sally Pederson, Lieutenant Governor, IA
Ray Powell, Commissioner of Public Lands, NM
Kathleen Gilligan Sebelius, Governor, KS
Eliot Spitzer, Attorney General, NY
Mark Taylor, Lieutenant Governor, GA
Michael L. Thurmond, State Labor Commissioner, GA
Mark Warner, Governor, VA
J.D. Williams, State Controller, ID

[meegbear]

10. Thanks ...

I'd say yes.

[Robbien]

12. Those are the people that vote for corporate interests every time

They are not our friends.

[Evil_Dewers]

20. They are not our friends

Is Tom Delay your friend?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. That group is a real mixed bag

just judging from the Oregon members.

But I think that the ones who are always going around praising Bush (Zell Miller) should acknowledge that they're really closet Republicans.

[vi5]

3. Yes, but we'd feel really good about ourselves

and how morally superior we all were.

[Killarney]

5. Yes

Just as there are far right and moderate republicans, there are far left and moderate democrats. To push the moderates out of the party would ensure republican wins at all levels (state, national) for a generation.

[BillZBubb]

8. Is Zell Miller DLC?

I wish all Zell Miller type DLCers would admit what they really are: Repugs. Good riddance if they go.

[Evil_Dewers]

13. Are you for real? n/t

[Evil_Dewers]

14. There is only one Zell Miller type

And his name is Zell Miller.

[w4rma]

11. IMHO, the DLC isn't moderate. They are pro-big biz and maybe radical.

On the issues, the current Democratic Party platform is moderate and acceptable to a majority of Americans. The DLC platform is purposefully hidden and obscured from voters because, IMHO, it is an unpopular platform. But it is an agenda that is pushed to garner help from big money (which in turn redirects more of our money towards big money folks).

Some of that help from big biz comes back in the form of better support from their (major) media outlets.

[sendero]

15. It seems like a false question..

... to me. What you are basically saying is that if the Dem party inches to the left, there is a large contingent of people who would decide to throw their lot in with the Repugs. I'd agree that there would probably be a point in leftward drift that we'd alienate a lot of folks, but you'd have to get to the left of Kucinish for that to happen IMHO.

[Bandit]

17. If the DLC continues to hold sway and lose us everything this will be my

last time ever to vote Democratic. DLC ran the election in 1992. How did we do then by the way? DLC ran the 2002 election. How did we do then also? I will vote for the Democrat this year because of my intense dislike for the Bush* Cabal but not because of DLC principles.

[kayell]

18. Another question - Does the democratic party need me, Q, and all the other

progressives and liberals that have been voting dem for years? A lot of us are going to jump ship after Nov if things don't change for the better.

[Evil_Dewers]

A lot of us are going to jump ship

wear a life preserver or you'll drown after you jump ship.

[Bandit]

24. I guess you don't realize we are drowning right now.

We need change and we need it yesterday.

[pmbryant]

22. Are you blaming the Dem party for the current situation?

The Dem party hasn't controlled Congress in almost 10 years. It hasn't controlled the Executive Branch in over 3 years. It hasn't controlled the judiciary in decades.

If "things don't change for the better", the blame does not lie with the Dem party. We need to get them in power before we can legitimately blame them for anything.

--Peter

[kayell]

27. If "things don't change for the better" refers to change in the Dem Party

And yes, I certainly do blame the dem party for the wishy washy way they have dealt with the RW for a long time. Becoming a party of appeasement has not exactly gained them a lot of standing in congress, now has it? Why would anyone keep wanting to persue such an incredibly flawed political tactic?

Yeah, that's it - we'll abandon most of the traditional democratic party principles, pander to some mythical swing voters rather than serving our base, and beg the rw not to hurt us too bad. Always a great way to build up enthusiasm in the American voting public for your side.


Added, because it appears you have probably just misunderstood what I said. (I am so angry these days that it sometimes spill over on to those it shouldn't)

You said "If "things don't change for the better", the blame does not lie with the Dem party. We need to get them in power before we can legitimately blame them for anything."

I realize that the blame for the horrific mess we are in does not primarily lie with the dems. The vast majority of the horror has been caused by a renegade, illegal usurper and his collaborators.

There have been some standup dems that have continued to speak out for dem principles. But they are becoming few and far between. Most democrats in the last decade, even when Clinton was in office have behaved like scared rabbits. They have behaved as though being liberal is some moral flaw to be ashamed of, giving exactly the same message as the repuke line by their mealy mouthed apologies for believing in human rights. They have tried desperately in fact to prove that they are just a kinder, gentler version of uber-nationalist.

So yes, I do blame the Dems for acting like collaborators too in selling the base out. And for selling out our democracy. They do bear responsibility for much of what has happened even in the last 3 years, by not being an effective opposition party.

Even before they lost power in the Clinton era mid-term elections, Dems gave it away. They sold out gays with DADT, they sold out everyone with abandoning the fight for universal health care, they sold out the poor by removing protections and benefits. All so the pukes would stop saying nasty things about them.

You will notice that all the people ready to give up on the party, are planning to vote in Nov. We all know how essential this election is. But after that, why, WHY should we keep supporting a party that does not think representing us is worthwhile?

Ok, I'm still angry. Maybe a big part of the problem with the mainstream dem party is that they aren't angry.

[Az]

19. DLC: the hand on the throttle slowing our collision course

When we need a hand on the steering wheel leading us away from the collision. The DLC is afraid of taking us in a new direction. They advise caution and slowing the process of turning to the right. They do not stop the process or suggest a new path. When you are heading towards a cliff the best option is not slowing down so you can enjoy the view of the plummet. You turn the freaking car around and go in a different direction.

[Evil_Dewers]

21. You turn the freaking car around and go in a different direction.

And you get 30 (at best) percent of the vote.

[Az]

25. Keep going in the same direction

and you get big brother and 100% of the vote by manditory law.

Look, if someone does not stand up and start pointing out the fact that the emperor and the entire system is stark raving naked (oh boy another metaphor) then the idiocy will continue. Fine we lose 30% of the vote. The message has to start sometime. We are going to lose seats initially. Things are going to turn rotten. Fast. People are going to wake up. They will look for another voice. There will be one. Now there is only one voice. Obey the corporations. Do nothing to disturb the corporations. Your success depends on the corporations. The corporations will take care of you. etc.

Its broken. We do not win by following along trying to win a few undecideds in the hopes that our wins can be used to turn things around. The people we are putting in office in our name have no desire to turn things around. Its how they got ellected. By not calling for turning things around.

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Hence the need for election reform

so we can switch to a system that allows for multiple parties and ranked voting.

[YNGW]

26. Yes

Politically speaking, it would be wiser for the party to push the Noam Chomsky type progressives out of the party and cater more to the moderates and conservatives. By doing so, they would gain many, many more constituents than they would lose. Many current and former Democrats have abandoned the party because of an overreaching progressive agenda as they perceive it. The far left progressives are vocal, but they are very small number as indicated by the percentage of votes DK received and the number of votes Nader will receive, and thus are politically insignificant. By shoving them into the Green Party (their likely new home) you could effectively marginalize them, demonstrating that the Dem party wants to get back to its roots. This is all, of course, politically speaking.