a rather chilling thread

[ButterflyBlood]

from another non-political board. still what do you think? do you think any of the "prophecies" here are likely, or the speculation of the people on the board?

http://www.vivalavinyl.org/board/t.php?id=9687&r=16

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

[mikehiggins]

2. tinfoil hat time

Nobody is going to start a civil war.

A military dictatorship though? You might want to talk to Tommy Franks about that one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Yep John Trainor strikes fear again

Look ANYBODY paying attention to things like oh BSE some years back could and did predict the rise of BSE in the US... for example

By the way, I have visited the site, and the scam is nice, Virtual World comes to mind

Oh and one final thing... coudl we be heading to a civil war? We are in one, though not as of yet a shooting one. Will it become hot? It could... it depends on many things... but as alawys we may just avoid it as well.. we are living in historic times, so plan for the worst but hope for the best

[Minstrel Boy]

4. Though I believe Titor was a clever hoax, it is a curious fact

that his predictions, which included such things as Homeland Security and the Patriot Act, were recorded before September 11.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. I guess Heinlein and others are also from teh futuer

read Dick's sci fi, or Heinlein or the classic, aka 1984 ALL those predictions are there.

Curious? No, anybody who has paid attention to the rise of fascism and knows the historical calendar, so to speak, can make those predictions as well

And he may have read the PNAC papers before most of us even knew they existed... they have been on line longer than the bush administration.. and their work, rebuilding America's Defenses, states chilling things such, "a Pearl Harbor like event is needed to carry on with these policies" page 49 I believe.

[tom_paine]

5. I have deep skepticism about "John Titor"

Hoaxes of this type have been perpetrated since long before Titor or the Internet.

Read Carl Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World" (if you can slog past the first 2 chapters, the rest of the book is FANTASTIC!). In it he has a similar "John Titor" story about a scientists who was also delusional with the same type (not exactly, of course) of prophesies as "Titor".

What is related in the book is that the scientist actually got the psychiatrists he was sent to going on all of this, convincing him that he was an interstellar travller from the future and he came to warn earth and yadda yadda yadda.

What is remarkable is that, after the psychiatrist was fully 100% sucked in and a believer, the patient summonded incredible reserves of mental health to plead with the psychiatrist to help him, not be sucked into his fantasy.

Like a bucket of water dumped on the head, the psychiatrist "came to". But he would probably still be a believer if his patient had not told him.

Anyway, "John Titor" should be viewed with the deepest skepticism.

[belle]

6. Hm.

>in november of 2000, a man who called himself john titor started posting on various messageboards across the internet, claiming to be a time traveler from the year 2036. his mission? he had come back to 1975 to get an ibm 5100 computer in order to use the particular features of that (apparently long destroyed) machine to prevent a unix bug speculated to cause problems in 2038. he was chosen for the mission because he was a history buff but also because his grandfather worked directly on the 5100.

upon completing his mission in 1975, he traveled to the year 2000 (or possibly 1999) for "personal reasons" and on the request of his grandfather (to warn his parents). he never came out and said it, but the more he posted the more apparent it seemed that the reason he traveled to the year 2000 was to see if his existence in 1975 had prevented the Y2K bug from doing anything catastrophic.


***

Well, *I'm* convinced! I mean! It's just like the Terminator! Only realer!

[damnyankee2601]

7. Pure Nonsense.

The replacements for fossil fuels already exist. They just cost more than the fossil fuels. When that changes, everything else will change too.

[Codeblue]

9. It takes fossil fuels...specifically oil...

to actually make these alternatives. We need plastic to build the solar panels and the windmills...and where does plastic come from? OIL!!! Plus, solar panels and windmills are not even close to being efficient enough to provide the pwer we would need. And certainly not efficient enough to power a car bigger than...one of those tiny solar cars. Plus, wind power and solar power rely on the weather. If it's cloudy with absolutely no sun or wind for a month you're SOL on power.

Hydrogen technology has not progressed to the point where we can even really use it and more energy must be put into making it so than hydrogen actually produces. We would 300-1,000 nuclear plants to power the U.S. alone...so ther goes all the land. Plus, nuclear plants could have meltdowns and radioactive elements would be spilled all over. And there isnt enough uranium to power that many plants past the year 2020. We may slowly be developing alternative energy sources, but it wont be fast enough. Once the oil crash happens, the survivors will be in a good position to develop a society based on these alternatives, but fossil fuels are used for far too many things these days to be replaced in time.

[damnyankee2601]

13. Wrong again.

Hydrogen comes from water, split with electricity, generated from wind and sun, and transmitted to market in superconducting nano-tubes. It all exists right now.

Plus, we don't just fall off a cliff oil-wise. 60% of the oil we have found is still in the ground, just too expensive to extract. When the price goes up, a way will be found. Then it will be used more wisely as a manufacturing material instead of a fuel.

Ther will be no crash. Just a rapid market shift like the ones from wood to coal, whale oil to kerosene, steam to diesel, pony express to telegraph, gas light to electric, the list goes on and on. Human history is full of these changes, and we are all still here.

[Nederland]

15. Sure it exists

but its dam expensive--especially those nano-tubes. Do you really think you can construct a distribution system out of nano-tubes for less than, oh, a couple trillion dollars? LOL!

[DrWeird]

16. Well, that's demonstratably false.

Yes, you can make hydrogen through the electrolysis of water, but it takes more energy to make hydrogen that way then you get back from burning it.

Hydrogen won't be the big saviour of mankind everybody's saying it is.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. Except for the fact...

that hydrogen production is a net energy sink, and the fact that hydrogen is an energy carrier and not a source. And whence comes the electricity to obtain the hydrogen? The equation doesn't balance. That law of energy conservation is a bugger.

[hatrack]

24. Or, as a professor I had once stated . . .

"Thermodynamics is a bitch!"

[Codeblue]

29. Exactly

Most likely, that electricty comes from a natural gas or oil power plant. Hence, it takes oil to produce usable hydrogen.

[damnyankee2601]

31. You're all sheep.

You have made up your mind that the world is coming to an end, and no ammount of logic will dissuade you.

Of course electrolysis is an energy sink. So are refineries and cracking towers. The object isn't to get out more energy than you put in, because that's impossible anyway. The object is to convert one form of energy into another that is more portable. And if the energy you are starting with is FREE (solar/wind/tide/hydro/geothermal,) it doesn't really matter if you lose some. All that matters is how much your conversion equipment costs.

It's threads like these that make us look silly to the dittoheads. Go educate yourselves about the history of the energy "industry" over the last 5,000 years. Then educate yourself about the history of quantum technology leaps. Then educate yourself about the history of oil extraction technology. Then you might have something useful to say about what MIGHT happen when oil gets harder to extract.

[Codeblue]

32. Do you have any idea how many

solar plants, wind farms, hydroelectric dams, and geothermal powerplants we would need to power America alone? Way too many. It would just be a world of powerplants and not much else.

[Must_B_Free]

33. Waste could reduced.

I flew at night recently and saw with my own eyes justy how much energy was being wasted burning lights all night long.

[Codeblue]

8. Who cares about Titor?

I myself have thought about a civil war erupting many times lately. With liberals and conservatives hating each other as much as they do, it could well be a split between the two parties. I different kind of Civil War.

[DrWeird]

10. Alright look, I've been to the future and you all can relax.

Yes, there's a civil war after the election, but only a couple of people, a cat, and a duck get hurt and it only lasts a couple or weeks. Afterwards there's a big party and everybody gets laid, so it's not that big of a deal.

[sweetheart]

12. his 2012 and 2015 prophesy

is exactly what my buddhist master foretold in 1984 without a time
machine. He said that world war 3 and 4 would be very close together
and that 4 would be a total nuclear exchange.

I can't help but notice how similar titor's story is to "12 monkeys",
but that aside, it correlates with other seeings that city dwellers
in the US have about 12 years to live.

I hope he's wrong about killing 3 billion people in 2015, but i myself find that more than realistic given the posturing and the new
arms race the * has gotten us in to.

Who would be that 2009 whack job president? Jeb?

[jokerman93]

14. Ok I've had enough of this crap!

What is wrong with our culture where hundreds of people are stricken by fear and seriously consider the prophesies of some (obviously)manufactured stunt?

This John Titor thing is unadulterated bullshit. It's some kind of guerrilla Theater or Social Engineering project based on the "Back to the Future" time travel scenario.

If people had half a brain cell working they'd realize the more likely explanation for this whole John Titor phenomenon, is that someone or some group of someones want the Internet bottom dwellers and disenfranchised Art Bell fans to dig in with irrational fear and start preparing for hell on earth. I say it's more control through fear by those who benefit by controlling through fear.

I've seen this same "can't sleep I'm so terrified" pitch used on several boards leading into the Tutor material. It's bullshit.

Wake up people! Someone very ugly and manipulative is pulling your strings because you let them. Deal with the problems of life with political and social action in the present moment. Get an education. Network with other activists. Digging in with fear is exactly what they want us to do.

It's BULLSHIT! And I wish whoever is behind it would go back into the spiritual sewer they came from.

[rockymountaindem]

19. Yeah, you'd have to be a total noob to fall for this.

First of all, all this Titor stuff is silly. Secondly, if anybody ever invented a time machine would they have the guts to actually USE it? I know if I invented a time machine I'd destroy it and never tell anyone. The whole thing is bunk.

[hatrack]

22. Where's the Amazing Randi when you really need him?

We could use ten of him about now . . .

http://www.randi.org/

[MAlibdem]

17. uhhhh....

:tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat: X 2000000000000000000000

[TNOE]

18. Ten Minutes Ago I Wouldn't have Believed it Either: Not Now

See This:

http://www.rightnation.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=31557

[jokerman93]

20. ten minutes ago

Ten minutes ago your IQ was substantially higher than it is now. This simply confirms my point that Titor is a psy-ops stunt just like these counter-protests.

[TNOE]

21. You haven't been on Many conservative boards

lurking have you? I've been officially kicked off most of them now. Granted the IQ level is totally way low but I have certainly honed my research skills - ready to drop evidence which they never can - all they can do is call you names, kind of like 2nd and 3rd graders.

But they REFUSE to see the truth and are rabid in their thinking. Don't discount the hate they have and the fact they think they are doing "God's Will". Check out the Meeting Room - thread on astrology.

Will have to go get it and be back. Quite interesting.

Here you go on edit:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=111x18934

[tobius]

26. wonder what the IQ level of people is who believe that the gravitational

pull of a planet will affect a personality trait.

" The end of the world is upon us!" people come from every spectrum of the political rainbow- see this post just from yesterday 3/2/04-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1186804

[uhhuh]

30. I just read that thread

And in typical fashion, not one of them is going to show up for their march. If they get 1,000 people I'd be shocked.

[cmf]

25. John Titor makes for an interesting read.

But it's bogus. I make my conclusion on one thing that just didn't sit right with me:

The new US capitol is in Omaha Nebraska.

If there really was an all-out nuclear war, like what John Titor says, there is no way that Omaha would be inhabitable. STRATCOM is located there - it would have been a primary target in a nuclear exchange. It would have been hit with multiple warheads, and even with a poor accuracy rate, I just cannot believe it would emerge from a nuclear war unscathed.

[absyntheNsugar]

27. The scary part of the thread;

1) civil war (almost a class war, even, between the cities and countryside) in the united states toward the end of 2004/beginning of 2005 after the election.

OK...as a student of world history I know that these are the bloodiest civil wars - city vs. countryside. The one that everyone here remembers is Cambodia during the 70's. Really scary - after the KR took over they emptied the cities into the countryside, and labelled all the city residents corrupted and called them "new people." The people in the countryside were the "old people" and were treated better. In less than 4 years 1/3 of the population of Cambodia (mostly the city people) were exterminated.

I have no doubt the kind folks at Free Republic jolly themselves at night to this very idea.

[Indiana_Dem]

28. All we can do is save this thread and this Christmas

we can see if anything near this scenario will be likely to take place. If so, I would be reading the rest of john titor and taking everything the poster said seriously!!! If not, we haven't lost anything.