Political Crisis in Haiti House Committee Hearing C-SPAN3 2pm et

[seemslikeadream]

Roger Noriega
Assisstant Secretary Department of State
Western Hemisphere Affairs
http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS

Well that's the time that was listed anyway

[seemslikeadream]

1. starting now

Rep. Robert Menendez D

We should support democratically elected head of state.

Image if hundreds of people had stormed the White House after the 2000 election.

We should fully understand the administration's dealings with opposition groups.

Rep. Jerry Weller R. Illinois (party line as far as I'm concerned, my comment)

Rep. Delahunt D. Mass I respectfully disagree with last statement I'm no fan of Aristide Haiti has been taken over by thugs, drug dealers, criminals, terrorists. This administration did nothing to stop this. Bad sign for other Democracies.

Rep. Donald Payne D New Jersy Aristide asked for help, he didn't get it. We asked for hearings over and over and got none.

[seemslikeadream]

2. kick

n/t

[Kool Kitty]

3. On now.

On C-SPAN 1, also.

[bigtree]

4. For all of the Aristide haters

Commandant Burton is on echoing the lies told here about Aristide's complicity in violence. Oldies but goodies about translated speeches advocating necklacing and other canards.

[SoCalDem]

7. I am having OJ trial flashbacks..

"the Colombian necktie" theory ... Oh my :(

[Lindsay]

5. Mendendez is getting feisty

on Noriega's ass.

Good for him!

[bigtree]

6. Powell's statements

U.S. shouldn't sanction "an elected president's overthrow by thugs".

[seemslikeadream]

8. Menendez to Noriega

You have misrepresented me I don't intend to take it.

Did US invoke the democratic charter

Noriega No

Menendez Feb 13 Powell didn't seek Aristide resignation, violence has no place then we allowed the overthrow
We sent a very clear message we are not going to intervine


Very contentious

[SoCalDem]

9. If Aristide is just a "guest"...and not a prisoner,

Why not just fly him here and let him tell his side of the story??

His wife and kids are American, yet they are all banished to C.A.R.?? This stinks to high heavens.. Aristide may not be a "good guy", but they underhanded way that we intervened is inexcusable

[seemslikeadream]

10. URGENT ALERT: CAR has shut off President Aristide's phone service

<clips>

2004-03-03 | Ira Kurzban, the lawyer who represents President Jean Bertrand Aristide has announced that he had just learned that the Central African Republic (CAR) has shut off President Aristide's phone service. He said that armed members of the French and CAR military are guarding President Aristide and he is not free to leave.

While there are many conflicting reports coming out of Haiti and Central Africa, the only way we will be able to determine the truth is open communications and immediate investigations.

In the United States, send an Email to your congressperson calling for the following:

· President Aristide Should be given full access to the media and telephone communications restored.

· President Aristide should be free to go where he chooses, otherwise it is clear that this was a coup orchestrated by the United States and France.

· An immediate Congressional investigation should commence to determine the role that the U.S. played, directly and/or indirectly in Aristides removal from power, and in supporting the civilian and military opposition movement.

· A multilateral force, not controlled by the U.S., should be deployed to stabilize the situation and immediately disarm the military opposition.

more... http://www.unobserver.com

[bigtree]

14. No formal charges from our government against Aristide.

Just vauge references to an ineffective government that Noriega stretches into complicity for the worst offenses he can recite.

That was the only basis Noriega could manage to come up with. Mismanaged government. The new Bush standard. Rebels advance, encourage elected government to resign and leave.

Why did this administration tolerate terrorist, murdering Rebels but had no patience for the elected government there? They favor the bloody insurgency while complaining about Aristide's unproven tangential ties to 'supporter's' violence.

[eablair3]

33. Rangell questioning Noriega now (nt)

[htuttle]

11. Noriega says that the US supports PM Neptune

So, then why is he being held under house arrest? Wonder if anyone will bring that up? (notice on it only went out this morning, so perhaps not)

[seemslikeadream]

12. Delahunt

are you currently supporting the government of Neptune.

Noriega Yes I'm not finished

Delahunt it is sufficent answer for me the person who is responsible for 1000's for deaths is free in New York

I was there Mr. Noriega for the voting they were relatively well done is that an accurate statement

Noriega Yes

[htuttle]

13. Ha! Delahunt says he was IN Haiti as an observer during the last election

Reading the truth of the so-called 'condeming report' of the last election. Notes that the 'irregularities' had to do with the tabulating of votes for 7 Senate seats. Nothing to do with the Presidential race, nor were there any problems in actually voting.

[bigtree]

16. And the opposition's refusal to participate.

The Carter Center reported that there was no evidence of any organized effort to affect the ballot.

[Isome]

15. Roger Noriega

Noriega (and Otto Reich) have promoted a policy of embargo against the Aristide government. Noriega carries the vendetta from his former boss, Jess Helms.

Ileana Ros-Leh... is a right wing Cuban from way back. She may feign concern for the racist and contradictory immigration policy for Haitians (versus Cubans), but there's little doubt she doesn't give a flying fig!

[htuttle]

17. Payne (D) from NJ bringing up excess of weapons sent to Dominican Rep

Also pointing out possession of US weapons by the rebels. Earlier had mentioned that these same FRAPH people were supported by the CIA years ago.

He also called Noriega on his comparison between Aristide and Charles Taylor.

[Isome]

18. And the lie...

That he (along with others) asked for the intervention in Liberia.

[Isome]

19. Cursor.org

Talks about the distinct possibility that the letter from Aristide was altered.

I wish Mark Foley would admit he's gay and be done with it. It would make it harder for him to lie about everything else.

[htuttle]

20. Foley (R) reading an editoral from a Miami newspaper?

He has a weird vacant stare, I see.

Now smearing Randall Robinson. Also characterizing Aristide as crazy.
Says the reports of kidnapping are 'He said/We said', etc...
Accusing Aristide of drug trafficking, random murders...

Wonder if he's going to accuse him of cattle mutilations, too?

Damn, losing it on CSPAN 1, I don't have CSPAN 3

[bigtree]

22. try this

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan3_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS3

[Isome]

21. He needs to stop trying to smear Randall Robinson

And I love the way they cite these reports, that aren't in context... how the hell can a 5,000 man police force protect the people and stop the drug trade when international aid to beef up the force is BLOCKED by the U.S.? Not to mention... they KNOW that Guy Philippe and other FRAPHers ran the drug trade before Aristide was elected.

I hate those liars. I hate them.

[htuttle]

23. Brown (D-Ohio) talks about overt 'solution' administration used

Said that even there, didn't follow Haitian constitution. Didn't have interim president ratified by legislature (convened by PM).


Crap, lost the signal on CSPAN 3 stream. I'm getting a stream, but it's sort of a test pattern blue type thing. It says '001' up in the corner, and 'NO SIGNAL' below. I wonder if it's still on TV?

[SoCalDem]

24. Since the rest of the questioners are Dems, who cares??

</sarcasm>

convenient, eh??

[bigtree]

25. Too damn convenient

[htuttle]

27. The audio feeds are down, too

The streams are up, but they are silent. Both Real and Windows streams.

Huh. Go figure.

[htuttle]

26. I have a stream going...

...but it looks like the satellite feed to the stream is out.

[SoCalDem]

28. It's back now

:)

[htuttle]

29. Feed is back up

Meeks speaking.

[eablair3]

30. Thanks -- Diane Watson questioning Noriega

thanks. I missed the first two hours or so. What's happened so far?

[htuttle]

31. Watson pressing Noriega on administration contacts with rebels

Reads him an AP article describing a meeting between Philippe and Amb Foley today. Noreiga states AP article is false, did not meet with Philippe. Says head of US military contingent met with Philippe to tell him to lay down his arms.

Hmm....

Watson really on that statement! "Please repeat what you said? Who's authority were they under?"

Chairman jumping in to fish Noriega out of the shit!

[seemslikeadream]

32. Ms. Watson asks

Philippi met with Foley that is false Noriega says

There is definetly a double standard

[htuttle]

34. Rangel on now

Going over fact that US told Aristide would not receive any help from US.

Brings up US threats that rebels were going to kill many Haitians in Port au Prince, asks, "why isn't that a Coup d'Etat?"

Did we ask him to resign if he were to leave the country?

Gets Noriega to admit that we would not help Aristide unless he resigned.

Chairman trying to pull Noriega out of the shit again...

That's actually news, I think, that we told Aristide that if he didn't sign the resignation, we would not help him. I don't remember hearing the Bush administration admit that before.

[eablair3]

35. Rangell questioning Noriega now

Rangell is doing pretty good. Asking Noriega what the definition of a "coup d'etat"?

[seemslikeadream]

37. Be very careful Mr. Noriega Rangel says

he he

[Isome]

38. It's either yes or no...

...come on Roger... come on!!

[Isome]

36. It may not be a "traditional" coup Roger...

but it's still a coup...

be careful Roger... you lying scum-sucking asshole!!

[eablair3]

39. Maxine Water on to question now

Aristide told her he was kidnapped and forced out.

[htuttle]

41. Gets Noriega on the protection of head of state issue

Noriega admits that we are going to protect the current 'head of state' (the judge guy we propped up), but did not protect Aristide.

Noriega says, 'They are different men.'

Whoops...

Maxine on him about their lies that ,'we don't have any responsibility to protect another elected head of state.'

[eablair3]

44. the format is ridiculous - how much time do they get?

about 5 minutes? that's all they get to question Noriega?

[eablair3]

49. Sheila Jackson Lee from Houston questions

[eablair3]

53. Shiela Jackson Lee of Houston

why don't they ask him the NAMES of some of the people who met with Aristide?

Where is the resignation letter?

Who was in charge of the group who went to Aristide's home in the middle of the night?

Who did that person report to? And, who did that person report to? etc etc

[Kool Kitty]

40. Dang! These men and women are

ripping Noriega a new asshole. This is great.

[Isome]

42. Yes or no answers...

Boy it is so simple. The man is lying so badly. No wonder they took it off of televison.

[seemslikeadream]

48. Waters

You knew that these thugs had returned. Did you ever attempted to tell them to lay down their arms.
Noriega We are doing this now.

[seemslikeadream]

43. Rep Maxine Waters

I want to know are you going to protect the new head of state.

Noriega Yes

Why did't you protect Arsitide

Go Maxine !!!!!!!!!!

[htuttle]

45. Maxine asking Noriega what he knew about rebels before hand

Detailing the background of these FRAPH people, asking which of them he knew.

Noriega says that he didn't know Toto Constant worked for the CIA...?

Maxine is on fire!

Chairman trying to save Noriega's ass again...:eyes:

On to Jackson-Lee

[Isome]

46. I am in a tizzy...

They try to run out the time by not answering, besides they can't say yes or no because they're lying.

[Lindsay]

47. Maxine Waters is brilliant

with her yes or no questions.

Make the man answer and stop waffling all around the issues.

[never cry wolf]

50. STOP with the qualifications, Shelia

Ain't gonna have no time for questions!!

[htuttle]

51. Jackson Lee bringing up fact that we protected Kharzai in Afghanistan

Asking whether we stated to Aristide that his security is removed. Noriega denies. Lee asking whether he'd welcome investigation into whether or not that is true.

[Isome]

52. I love it...

No commentary necessary Rog... just answer the question and shut your cakehole!

[eablair3]

54. Corinne Brown of Florida

not too many are asking real questions.

a lot of speeches.

why not at least use the little time you have to get the guy to answer specifics? to tie him down? Liars will lie. You get them to talk, and then find evidence in the future that he lied. So, why aren't they pinning him down on at least some specifics?

Rangel has done the best so far.

[htuttle]

55. Corrine Brown asking about US blocking CARICOM assistance to Haiti

Well, Roger?

(hadn't heard that before)

She also brought up that she was also an observer in the last Haitian election, and said that it was at least as far as the election in Florida.

Noriega denies US blocking CARICOM. Brown calls him on it, says she doesn't want to name names out of fear of retribution to them....! Says that she was told by CARICOM personnel that this was the case.

[Isome]

56. I thought it was AID we blocked...

I hadn't heard of us blocking anyone from sending troops...

[htuttle]

60. The evening of the coup

There were reports/rumors that a number of Latin American/Carribean countries were going to send assistance. I read that South Africa was about to send material assistance (not personnel) to the Haitian police that day. None of it arrived in time -- Perhaps that's why.

[htuttle]

57. Christensen (D-Virgin Islands) delegate

asks about blocking funding to Aristide's funding.

Noriega says Clinton decided to block the funds. Says they removed 'linkage' in 2002.

[eablair3]

58. Delegate Donna Christensen of the Virgin Islands

please please tie him down with some specifics.

Has anyone asked about the condition of Aristide now? Why can't he be visited and interviewed by the media?

[Lindsay]

61. I think it was Waters

who asked for assurance about Aristede's safety, and Noriega said the US has no responsibility.

[Isome]

59. Adolfo is a liar...

Haiti paid the ARREARS... even though the AID was STILL BLOCKED and remained blocked by the US!

[htuttle]

62. Christensen asking why we abandoned CARICOM agreement

Noriega says that 'it wasn't implemented' because the opposition wouldn't agree.
Says that each country had to make a decision whether to send their own troops.

Ugh...Porter Goss is up...

[eablair3]

63. Porter Goss -- you're right -- UGH

time wasted with this guy. Don't tell the truth. It could be harmful to our troops there to have such a discussion out in the open.

[htuttle]

64. Goss (R-Taliban) says that asking these questions is inciting violence

And putting our troops in danger! So we should just shut up! (in so many words)

Noriega thanks him for the opportunity to repeat more talking points. Goss gives him a big kiss, asks him if there is any further spin that he'd like to spew. Noriega complies.

[never cry wolf]

65. They don't have a problem outing Plame tho

This guy is making me :puke:

[Kool Kitty]

67. That's the first thing I thought of, too.

They sure didn't mind mentioning HER name publicly. Hypocrites.

[Isome]

66. Adolfo lied in a big way...

The Post wrote in an editorial that the United States spent more than $1.5 billion on nation-building in Haiti during the 1990s, "but now has all but abandoned the country."

Franco wrote a letter in response to the Post reporting that U.S. aid to Haiti’s government of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide has been blocked.

At the time he said that despite the stoppage of aid to Haiti’s government, the United States continues to provide assistance to the Haitian people.

Franco, that the United States will not work with the Haitian government until there is a resolution to the political impasse in Haiti. He said the United States does not object to loans being resumed by the Inter-American Development Bank to the Haitian government, as long as the Bank’s rules are followed on providing loans to recipient countries.

He just said it was THE BANK that refused to continue based on it's RULES... but then he said that the US wouldn't object to the bank loans being disbursed AS LONG AS Haiti followed the BANK'S rules.

HE'S A LIAR!!

...and here's the link: http://www.haiti-info.com/article.php3?id_article=1103

[never cry wolf]

68. Frikkin chairman won't call timeout on Goss, CBC had to

Schakowsy up now!! Go girl!!

[htuttle]

70. She brings up past experience of...

...unreliable intelligence reports (ie., Iraq).

Says she was with the Aristides shortly before the coup, and expressed no intention of leaving Haiti. Asking for official State Dept report on situation. When was the first meeting with Aristide that night. Did Aristide write the letter, she asks?

Noriega says we didn't write letter. Says we were contacted by Aristide at 9pm that night. Schakowsky makes him put that assertion on the record, that we were contacted first by him.

Noriega starts to plead, "I'm not aware of all the details"
Says that plane was ordered after 1 am.

She asks about Aristides treatment on the plane, ie., can't open window shades, did he know where he was going.

Noreiga says he doesn't know about the windows. Says that Aristide was not told where he was going. Says that they were worried that Aristide's armed bodyguards would react, since they weren't taking him to where he wanted to go. Says that Aristides desired destination was denied by the host country. BULLSHIT! There are at least 4 lies in that answer!

[eablair3]

69. Jan Schakowsky - Chicago

says she talked to Mrs. Aristide at 6:30 pm that night and there was no sign of anything being up.

[eablair3]

71. alright!

at least she's asking for specifics. good going

Noriega says he doesn't know who wrote the "resignation letter"

Noriega says the first contact was after 9 pm to discuss his departure.

[seemslikeadream]

72. Jan

who composed the resignation letter.

Noriega I don't know it wasn't us, may have been Aristide it had his flare!

[Isome]

73. The "desired location turned him down"...

What was HIS desired location? It wasn't South Africa... they've already denied being contacted. What was it?!!

[never cry wolf]

74. Wasn't there also a story out there that

Aristide told them where he wanted to go? One of the early "official" stories where they were saying he resigned and fled the country.

My fuckin puke rep. kirk up now. DAMN, I wish I lived in Schakowsky district!

[Isome]

149. It was the NYT...

"The New York Times and other corporate media outlets quoted unnamed "senior State Department officials" as saying that Aristide was denied exile in South Africa. In a front page article yesterday, the Times said President Thabo Mbeki did not want to provoke a political controversy in South Africa.

Democracy Now! has learned from the South African ambassador to the United Nations, Dumisani Kumalo, that President Aristide did not request asylum or exile in South Africa, nor did the South African government deny him amnesty or exile as alleged by the US State Department and The New York Times."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/02/1616214

[htuttle]

75. Kirk (R) reminiscing about his glory days in the Navy

down in Haiti. Talking about how brave Colin Powell was at the time.

:eyes:

Hmm....Noriega launches into a smear of Aristide (dishonest, ineffective, etc...).

BUT!

Kirk actually says, 'without defending the career of any particular Haitian politician, shouldn't we defend the constitution of Haiti?'

But then Chairman fishes Noreiga out of the shit again...TIME UP!

Odd, that Kirk sounded like he was almost...Hmm.....:)

[Isome]

76. Oh' dammit!

Cedras also LEFT the country with MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

[seemslikeadream]

77. Next panel?

They're gona be here for awhile.

[Isome]

78. I don't think the panel is about Haiti...

is it?

[seemslikeadream]

81. I really don't know

Meeks is talking about the Coast Guard being off the coast of Haiti and that that's why Haitian aren't trying to leave cause they'd be sitting ducks.

[eablair3]

79. Kendrick Meek - Florida (North Miami)

talking about Haitians being re-sent byt he Coast Guard into Haiti after they flee. Says they have a bullseye on their back

Now, he's taking offense to the comments that Congress members should not be questioning things openly.

[htuttle]

80. Meek questioning Dewey about repatriation procedures

Asking whether we are sending them back immediately.

Brings up Homeland Security's policy against Haitians.

Speaks out against Goss's statement that we should shut up.

Asking if we are protecting PM Neptune, brings up Philippe's threats against him. Asks what Noriega knows about Philippe's meeting demand yesterday.

Noriega pleads ignorance. Meek says that Congress needs to send a group down to Haiti to find out.

[Tinoire]

82. Damn. Missed it all! Thanks for the comments above!

I hope they replay this tonight. Tell me please... Is Bush going down? And will it be the CBC? And will it be Haiti.

Please, please, please say there is a chance!

[seemslikeadream]

83. I really think this could be it

but it's been a long 3 years!

[htuttle]

85. The Republicans are being as intransigent as ever...

...except for a spark of independent thought I swore I saw in Rep. Kirk for a moment.

The Democrats in the CBC + a few others seem well informed about the details, and very fired up. Noriega has to have made at least 6 easily provable lies on the record. I'm not sure if he's under oath at the moment...?

[Isome]

84. Kendrick... oh' go Kendrick!

The prime minister is said to be a prisoner in his office. He says he's a prisoner and they won't let him out!

This is what people may miss...

If our refugee/immigration policy towards Haitians blatantly disregards their safety, there's no way we give a damn about violating the sovereignty of their country.

That's why Kendrick was driving home the barbaric policy of turning Haitians away from the borders.

[seemslikeadream]

86. Somewhere I read that

Arsitide's private security was stopped by US from going to Haiti

[Isome]

88. that's what i read...

let me go look it up!

[Katarina]

96. Is this what you're looking for?

I posted this yesterday in LBN:

<snip>
Reports emerged yesterday that the private U.S. security firm guarding President Aristide was prevented by the White House from sending reinforcements to Haiti last week to bolster his security. We speak with the CEO of the firm Kenneth Kurtz.

As we reported yesterday on Democracy Now!, Jean-Bertrand Aristide says he was told by US officials this weekend that if he did not leave Haiti, paramilitary leader Guy Philippe would storm the palace and Aristide would be killed. Congressmember Maxine Waters said on this program that Aristide was told by the US that they were withdrawing Aristide's US security. But just what was Aristide's "US Security?"

It turns out that Aristide was being guarded by a private security firm, based in San Francisco. It is called the Steele Foundation. It is made up of former US special forces soldiers, intelligence officers and other security experts. The company has been on a State Department-approved contract with the Haitian government since 1998.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/02/1616229

[seemslikeadream]

99. Yes great

Thanks alot

[never cry wolf]

97. I think he wanted to beef it up

But the private US security firm was not allowed to by the admin.

[Isome]

87. A personal guard says HE WAS kidnapped! n/t

[eablair3]

90. Where was that said??? Link?

appreciate some specifics on that.

[Isome]

143. I didn't see this:

I have to find the other link. But here's a part of the transcript from a democracynow interview. Count the number of times the Steele CEO answered "I cannot comment on that." I think his evasiveness is telling—

AMY GOODMAN: Did the US Government ever tell the Steele Foundation to leave?

KENNETH KURTZ: No.

AMY GOODMAN: What did they tell you?

KENNETH KURTZ: I cannot comment on that.

AMY GOODMAN: Did they ever say they wouldn't help you in these last days, when it got more and more precarious, more and more dangerous?

KENNETH KURTZ: I cannot comment on that.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you feel that you had the support of the US Government there in protecting President Aristide?

KENNETH KURTZ: It was our job to protect President Aristide, not the job of the United States Government.

AMY GOODMAN: I’m looking at a piece in the Miami Herald, that says, "The Bush Administration blocked a last minute attempt by President Aristide to bolster his bodyguards - mostly former US Special Forces members - fearing he wanted them to organize and lead a counterattack against the rebels... US Officials also forced a small group of extra bodyguards from the Steele Foundation to delay their flight from the United States to Haiti from Sunday to a later day - too late to help Aristide, said the sources, who are close to Aristide." Is that true?

KENNETH KURTZ: No. No. It's not.

AMY GOODMAN: Did those reinforcements come?

KENNETH KURTZ: I cannot comment.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you feel President Aristide's life was in danger when he left?

KENNETH KURTZ: I think that the security situation in the country was very serious, and I think that if international assistance would have arrived, it would have certainly stabilized the situation.

AMY GOODMAN: Did you call for it as well?

KENNETH KURTZ: It wasn't our place to call for that. Our only mission was to provide protection to the office of the president.

AMY GOODMAN: And you felt that if forces had come in, it would have shored him up? It would have protected him?

KENNETH KURTZ: I think it would have stabilized the security situation in the country.

AMY GOODMAN: Did any of your men get delayed in coming down and adding to the contingent around the president?

KENNETH KURTZ: I cannot comment on that.
...

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think that the US Military could have made a difference at the end?

KENNETH KURTZ: Well, I would probably turn that question around you to, and ask, "Looking at the US military, coming in the day after he left, and that, in itself, insuring some stability, do you think that, if they would have come in a day before, it would have created stability?"

When I find the other link I'll send it PM.

[htuttle]

89. Noriega states he was surprised that Aristide leaves...

After embellishing for awhile...

Now he says that his bodyguards say Aristide wasn't kidnapped? When please? (that's my question, not his....).

Cummings asking how they are going to get democracy going again in Haiti?

Noriega gives him an empty answer that involved a lot of hand waving and nodding on his part...:eyes:

[eablair3]

92. the head of the bodyguard company

it was the Steele Foundation. they are HQ in San Francisco. Dem Now interviewed the head of the company a few days ago on air on Pacifica Radio, who claimed that Aristide was not kidnapped. He refused to answer a lot of questions from Amy Goodman. Many of the questions related to whether the security forces, made up mostly of ex-special forces types, were or had now other contracts from the US gov't such as the contract to protect Paul Bremer in Iraq. he woulnd't answer it. I'm sure the interview is still online. you can hear it. but, he did say Aristide was not kidnapped. It wouldn't look good for his securiy company if he admitted it.

[htuttle]

91. President of University of Haiti up

Pierre Marie Paquiot. Says he is speaking as a concerned citizen.

That's this guy, with Noriega in Jan 2004:



http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/28891.htm

Guess what? Blames Aristide for getting him fired during the last coup, says that there has been a power struggle between the government and the university.

[seemslikeadream]

94. Here is a nice picture of him with Noriega

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/rls/28891.htm

note the date January 29,2004 in Washington DC

[Isome]

93. Here we go...

Trot out one darkie to agree with the U.S. and no one on the other side exists!!

[seemslikeadream]

95. looked pretty chummy in the picture!

:pals:

[htuttle]

98. Robert Maguire from Trinity College up

Testifies about Bush administration's diplomatic efforts against Aristide.

For example: Maguire says that he was going to have PM Neptune come to a seminar at Trinity college, but was told by Administration that he could not do that, since he was 'out to embarass the administration'.

Also says that our own Ambassadors were receiving messages from Washington NOT to help Aristide.

Says 'opposition' group is in no way democratic.

Says Bush administration refused to deal with Aristide from day one.

Says for the record that Aristide turned over Haiti's top two drug dealers, and a number of lower level ones. Says allegations of drug dealing are lies. (in so many words)

[never cry wolf]

100. This Robert Maguire has the real story down!

Trying to cut him short now.

[eablair3]

101. Jeffrey Sachs -- opening real good!

says it all doesn't make sense. it's all a threat to democracy, even in America.

says what was said was flatly denied by Aristide and his wife. He said he has talked directly to him.

asking where is Aristide? he says Aristide fears for his safety right now. Commenting on Noriega saying that the US has no responsibility for Aristide's safety.

[htuttle]

102. Jeffery Sachs director of Earth Institute at Columbia Univ

One of Rangel's constituents.

Says Americans are frightened, because what we are hearing doesn't add up. Says it reminds him of 'who are you going to believe, me or you lying eyes." Says Noriega's statements didn't add up.

Appeals for democratic oversight of Executive branch, urgently!

Says Aristides and his wife's statements directly contradict administration's statements. Asking where they are now? Says he knows that they fear for their safety. Says that he knows that as of this morning, all contact with them has been cut off and denied. Apalled at Noriega's contention that we have no responsibility for his safety.

Says that Noriega contradicts himself when he says that Aristide was not required to resign in his written testimony, and then outright admits it in person before the committee.

Says the details are very important to know, since in one case, it's a resignation, and in the other is a coup.

This guy is very well informed! Very good.

[Isome]

103. Thank you Jeffery Sachs!

e o m

[seemslikeadream]

105. Yes Yes

Thank You Jeffrey Sachs!

CIA links to the rebels

M16 given to them by somebody!

[never cry wolf]

104. Who is the chairman of this committee?

Obviously a repug. His lips are twitching with Jeffrey sachs is talking!

[seemslikeadream]

Look at this

http://ballenger.house.gov/

Ballenger votes to protect pregnant mothers and their unborn children

[htuttle]

107. Cass Ballenger (R-NC)

Spinning pretty vehemently at times. Sachs asking him to please call Aristide for themselves. Ballenger cutting hiim off....

[eablair3]

106. GO GET 'EM JEFFREY SACHS

this guy is good.

pointing out all the inconsistencies from today and before.

[Kool Kitty]

108. Sachs just asked the chairman to PLEASE CALL

Aristede in Africa. Think he will?

[seemslikeadream]

109. I don't think he'll get through

URGENT ALERT: CAR has shut off President Aristide's phone service


<clips>

2004-03-03 | Ira Kurzban, the lawyer who represents President Jean Bertrand Aristide has announced that he had just learned that the Central African Republic (CAR) has shut off President Aristide's phone service. He said that armed members of the French and CAR military are guarding President Aristide and he is not free to leave.

While there are many conflicting reports coming out of Haiti and Central Africa, the only way we will be able to determine the truth is open communications and immediate investigations.

In the United States, send an Email to your congressperson calling for the following:

· President Aristide Should be given full access to the media and telephone communications restored.

· President Aristide should be free to go where he chooses, otherwise it is clear that this was a coup orchestrated by the United States and France.

· An immediate Congressional investigation should commence to determine the role that the U.S. played, directly and/or indirectly in Aristides removal from power, and in supporting the civilian and military opposition movement.

· A multilateral force, not controlled by the U.S., should be deployed to stabilize the situation and immediately disarm the military opposition.

more... http://www.unobserver.com

[Kool Kitty]

112. Ah, well-

so much for that. Sending an e-mail now.

[htuttle]

110. Orlando Marville, former head of Haitian election observation mission

Going over some Haitian history.

Now onto the last parlimentary elections. Says they considered them 'flawed' due to Haitian tradition of the winner having to win everything. Says mission contacted Aristide about vote COUNT numbers in parlimentary election that were altered to remove the need for a second round election. Says someone on election mission leaked letter to press.

Says election team should have been larger, but a single member of US Senate blocked additional funding (didn't mention who). Says that Haiti became political football in US politics.

Says new elections will require up to 2 years to properly organize. Census needed, all political factions have to get on board, election equipment needed, sufficient funding of electoral observation. Then a period of considerable assistance to help Haiti get on it's feet.

Ballenger starting to cut him off...

Now Ballenger going on about how much he's helped Haiti personally. Says he's frustrated that they keep wrecking what we build there. Says drug gangs now reinforcing rebels. kind of meandering there.

[bigtree]

111. Sachs shows why this will be a major story in the coming months

Brilliant!

Manville: No quick fix. Money suspended because of flawed election?

[seemslikeadream]

113. Menendez

This goes far beyond Haiti.

That says it all

[htuttle]

114. Menendez says Republicans seem to spend all of their time....

...discrediting Aristide (as they have been, during this committee meeting).

Asks what our obligation is to support democracy. Says that if we only get involved in situations where there is a political solution, then that empowers parties that don't wish to have a political solution, but rather take power for themselves.

Asks Maguire, Maguire says that it tells parties that don't want political solutions that they can act with impunity, that the rule of law doesn't matter.

Talking about coverage of Philippe as a 'folk hero'. Brings up Philippe's freeing of prisoners, including those guilty of massacres, etc...

Menendez talking about double standard in treating some differently than others, such as supporting the poppy growing warlords in Afghanistan, etc... Maguire answers by asking about why don't we hear about non-opposition members killed as we do about each opposition member killed.

Back to the R's, and the U of Haiti pres. HE says we are focusing too much on personality...continues by putting Aristide along with the 'powerful personalities' of their past (hint...he's comparing Aristide to Papa Doc...).

[seemslikeadream]

115. Maguire

Philippe has emptied every jail

Back to the party line.

Look to the future never mind about the coup

[Isome]

116. DelaHunt!!

We need to RE-EXAMINE the "democracy building programs" we have in this country. *woo hoo*

Mentioned the IRI... alright! He's on the money! Now we're getting somewhere.

[seemslikeadream]

117. International Republican Institute?

has had meetings in Miami. Stanley Lukus? drinking champaign after a coup? USAID funding kinda IRI?

Donald Payne
overstepped its bounds

[htuttle]

118. Delahunt brings up IRI aid to 'opposition'

Maguire says he is aware of IRI meetings with opposition in Miami. Now talking names with Delahunt. Says he saw clip on state television (not sure who's) of US IRI representitive toasting with Gen. Avril after last coup.

Says that he learned that USAID was 'directed' to fund IRI operations in Haiti some time ago. Delahunt wants an investigation specifically on IRI and NED roles and actions.

Delahunt says we are creating advocacy groups that are not helpful to democracies.

[htuttle]

119. Payne also talking about IRI

Says that four color shiny brochures from the IRI showed up in Haiti on election night. Says he and other election observers, such as Porter Goss (motions to him) saw them. Says they must have been printed in the US (or at least not in Haiti).

Says IRI is overstepping it's bounds, says CIA predicted Aristide would lose last election, and was shocked when he won as he did. Says our understanding of Haiti is very poor.

[htuttle]

120. Payne asks former Amb to Haiti (under Clinton)

Why didn't the 'opposition' in Haiti accept the last CARICOM resolution.

Answers that he was told that that opposition's base would not accept leaving Aristide in power, so they didn't agree.

[htuttle]

121. Meeks asks Pequiot whether he thinks Haitians should be given asylum

Pequiot says he doesn't agree with dual system, where Cubans get asylum and Haitians do not. Says that, for instance, Cubans are not leaving for economic reasons, but more often to be with their families, etc...

LOL! I guess Noriega forgot to hand him the Cuba talking points notebook, just in case.

Now Meeks asking for more details about negotiations with opposition from Carney (former Ambassador under Clinton).

Also asking whether opposition would agree to lock out the convicted criminals such as Philippe, Chamblain, etc... out of the political process, and to hand them over to a UN tribunal for justice. Not much of an answer, other than, "I've heard it talked about".

I gotta run for a moment....

[Isome]

122. why are we acting as though the OPPOSITION...

is legitimate? We know who they're comprised of... why are they being given ANY consideration?

[seemslikeadream]

123. Barbara Lee

Independent Commission is going to be established
Sachs
looking forward not back - that is a reciepe for disaster

Aristide had to sign the resignation to get out of Haiti

We may find the worst

Caricom great threat to democracy

This is not a time for theory

[htuttle]

Actually, Rangel is forgetting about a government by coup we recognize...

..Pakistan. There was a coup in Pakistan, and we recognized Musharrif.


Although we didn't at first. I remember sanctions before Bush came into power.

[Isome]

124. We're bad... baaaaad America, baaaaaad!!

The Role of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED)

In Haiti, this "civil society opposition" is bankrolled by the National Endowment for Democracy which works hand in glove with the CIA. The Democratic Platform is supported by the International Republican Institute (IRI) , which is an arm of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED). Senator John McCain is Chairman of IRI's Board of Directors. (See Laura Flynn, Pierre Labossière and Robert Roth, Hidden from the Headlines: The U.S. War Against Haiti, California-based Haiti Action Committee (HAC), http://www.haitiprogres.com/eng11-12.html ).

G-184 leader Andy Apaid was in liaison with Secretary of State Colin Powell in the days prior to the departure of President Aristide for the Dominican Republic on February 29. His umbrella organization of elite business organizations and religious NGOs, which is also supported by the International Republican Institute (IRI), receives sizeable amounts of money from the European Union. (http://haitisupport.gn.apc.org/184%20EC.htm ).

Rangel is pressing them that our position should be to restore Aristide to power... good going Charlie! Dammit, he's good!! If we're followers of the "rule of law", we have to restore Aristide and NOT recognize the "opposition."

[seemslikeadream]

125. I've got to get

this transcript

Maxine is on fire!

[Isome]

128. Absolutely...

The celebrants of the coup need to know this... so they can understand the ridiculousness of the accusations that he wasn't doing what he was supposed to do!

I'm so grateful for Mr. Sachs! Thank you Mr. Sachs! It's on the record!

Thank you so very much! *woo hoo*

[Isome]

126. My girl, Maxine!

This is the heart of the matter. Identify the opposition, then we'll know what they're about, and why they're the opposision.

[htuttle]

127. Waters talking about Apaid being a US citizen

Asking whether it's ever come up at CARICOM?

Asks why we are talking with a US citizen who's launched a coup in Haiti?

Brings up factors that started the coup, such as Aristide wanted an increase in minimum wage, Aristide demanding that Andre Apaid (now leader of the 'opposition') pay his back owed taxes from his 16 factories in Haiti, Aristide working against indentured servitude etc...

Maxine Waters is putting them on the spot asking if these witnesses were aware of these things.

Bringing up the fact that most aid to government of Haiti was cut off in 1998, yet we continued to fund opposition parties up until today. No disagreement that this was the case. Brings up how US cut off economic aid, more on how we drained Haiti of foreign reserves, etc...

[seemslikeadream]

129. Whoops there it is

n/t

[seemslikeadream]

130. CIA CIA CIA CIA

n/t

[htuttle]

131. Jackson Lee says she's demanded an immediate investigation

Says she's spoken to House leaders to get it in motion. Says we need to find out whether the CIA was involved in this.

Sachs says CIA fingerprints were all over '91 coup, says that as Santayama said, if we do not learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it, and we may be in the middle of repeating it right now.

Trying to cut them off, Ballenger shutting up Menendez who wants to allow the witness to speak.

[htuttle]

132. Christensen says CARICOM demanded 2 hours ago the return of Aristide

And the reinstatement of Democracy in Haiti. CARICOM also demanding an immediate investigation into coup.

!!!

(didn't know that...I've been in this thread...!)

[seemslikeadream]

133. Caricom is agasted at the situation

Sachs

they do not accecpt the removal of Aristide
they will have nothing to do with the new government
they are very concerned about a president being carried off in a plane in the middle of the night

[Isome]

134. Am I the only one who lost the feed? n/t

[Renew Deal]

135. I did too.

[Isome]

137. *grrrrr* n/t

[KelleyKramer]

138. Me too

For a long time it said 'connecting' but now getting an error message.. guess that means it timed out ?

This is an incredible hearing and *really* would like the hear the rest of it ...

Any suggestions??

[htuttle]

136. I lost the video stream

But I managed to grab an audio stream, and heard them doing 'thank you for coming' all around, and adjourning.

It just ended.

[Isome]

140. Well, it was worthwhile.

I guess it ended a bit prematurely online because it was ending anyway.

That was eye-opening... I wasn't sure it all that information was going to actually come out. I was afraid it would be mostly the right wingers and their talking points.

[KelleyKramer]

141. Will this replay on cpan 1 or 2 ??

Watched about the last hour and that was one of the most incredible hearings I've ever seen. Not sure how long it was going before that but would really like to see it.

My cable doesn’t include cspan3, anyone know if its routine for them to replay '3' programs on the other two ??

[htuttle]

142. It was on CSPAN 1 and 3 for a little while, but then went to CSPAN 3 only

I'd check the schedule at http://www.cspan.org to find out if it runs again.

Okay, I checked. I *think* that it reruns on CSPAN 2 at 8:26 EST, if I'm reading the schedule correctly.


But wait -- the schedule says it lasts '0:00' minutes, and there's another program on at 8:28 EST...? Wha?

[Lindsay]

139. The hearing is over.

But Dems on the house floor are discussing Haiti on C-Span now.

[htuttle]

144. Kicking this must-see Hearing for the evening folks at least once

:kick:

[TroubleMan]

145. It's on now on CSPAN2

And thank you guys for posting all this.

[mac2]

147. The hearing or the Black Caucus?

[mac2]

148. Thanks it's on CSPAN2 now

[mac2]

146. The Republican Hearings are always dead ends.

This one is in the middle of the night. What are they up to? They do bad things in the dark of night.Something like "theives in the night." ):

[htuttle]

150. It's a replay on now

The hearing took place early this afternoon.

[htuttle]

151. New thread for replay

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1190975

This one is Too Big...

[seemslikeadream]

152. I am kicking this because

I have not seen any coverage of this hearing on TV. I have seen coverage of the hearing on gay marriage but the overthrow of a democratic government apparently means nothing.