Any interest in a Peer-to-Peer political organizing tool?

[einniv]

I talked about this idea in another thread about other things. It didn't get much response so I thought I would see how it does on its own.

I'm a programmer and often work on personal projects in my spare time.

I had the beginnings of an idea about a Peer-to-Peer political application. For those that aren't sure , Peer-to-Peer means, basically, connecting to other users on the net instead of to servers. It doesn't mean file-sharing that you may be familiar with, though that is its primary use right now.

I saw it perhaps being geared to small files like news archives or "rants" etc. Ad-hoc chat rooms and "town hall meetings" over the net.
A way to find other people in your area , that share common concerns, anonymously (at first). You can of course reveal portions of your identity if you so choose(i.e. once you trust the person). There are methods, that I have yet to fully investigate, that can somewhat alleviate the problem of "abuse of anonimity" on the net. This would be a low-bandwidth application so no cable-modem required.

Anyway, it is a pretty vague idea at this point but am curious if it sounds interesting enough to pursue?

[chookie]

1. What are the advantages?

I am not clear as to why this method would have advantages over what we commonly have access to now. Would you please discuss these?

Also, would you please explain about how this method alleviates the abuse of anonymity?

And why is no cable modem required?

Thanks!

[Occulus]

3. peer-to-peer is decentralized

so it can't easily be gotten rid of. If you have even two connected computers, you have a potential peer-to-peer network, with the right software of course.

DU could go down and we could all still discuss, for example. Information and news could be shared and contributed in real time through one common interface.

Oh, and no "dead links"... just slow sources or long queues, but if all you allow is text, even slow bandwidth machines can transfer files. And chat is easy to handle over a slow bandwidth connection; dialup would work well with it.

[Nlighten1]

6. It sounds like a good idea to me.

[einniv]

7. Advantages

I think the person that responded hit on important parts.
The decentralized aspect is important.
The ability to pick up ad-hoc chats has definite advantages over forums. In addition being able to connect more easily (and annonymously) with people from your same geographic area.

[Occulus]

2. Yes!!!

DO this! I would do it myself if I were a programmer. This is really a great idea.

I would preserve the anonymity of the application, though, perhaps even using encryption where appropriate. Political activity is likely to boil over this fall, and I really don't see this crew going quietly. Hell- they may decide to ignore election results or the elections themselves if things get ugly.

In light of the maladministration involved, I'd say something like this were best done anonymously.

[einniv]

4. Well I'm easy to please.

A couple at least interested.
I think I will pursue trying to flesh it out over the next couple months(meaning the ideas not the code which will take longer).

[Lone_Wolf]

5. Great idea!

I like the idea of a decentralized information network. I say go for it!

[scottxyz]

8. Check out "Waste"

This is a program for setting up private, encrypted peer-to-peer networks - written by one of the guys at NullSoft.

You might be able to use this existing program to help create a peer-to-peer organizing tool.

==

I like the direction you're heading in. Not sure where it would go or how we would get there - but this could be really cool if done right.

I'm sort of a programmer as well - more into databases.

[einniv]

11. Nice . very nice.

Perfect starting point. Thank you.

[einniv]

14. A link for waste

Note: The pedigree of this code appears to be questionable. It is reverse engineered and Nullsoft seems pissed about perhaps pursuing legal means. So I wouldn't suggest anyone use this code (nor would I) but it is an interesting source for ideas (much more fleshed out than mine and a great starting place... thanks again)

http://waste.sourceforge.net/

[scottxyz]

18. Don't be so chicken

This code is open-source and the project is no longer being managed by Justin (the Gnutella programmer, who resigned NullSoft).

As an example of how tough open-source programmers are fighting back against the ridculous idea that anything they do can be "banned", check out this "C"-to-english-translator:

http://personal.sip.fi/~lm/c2txt2c/

and a portion of the Waste code written as standard English:

http://personal.sip.fi/~lm/c2txt2c/blowfish.txt

Imagine banning THIS?!? Good luck, Clear Channels and AOLs of the world!

It's only a question of time before people start turning to fault-tolerant private encrypted networks for chat and filesharing.

All human communication systems thoughout time have treated censorship as damage and routed around it. That's the DEFINITION of human communication. The Internet (and programs like Waste) took off precisely because its design did just this.

[info being]

22. I already have a functioning messaging app

www.infobeing.net

write me at [e-mail] if you want.

[Cleita]

9. It does to me.

I have often thought of setting up an IRC chatroom or AIM so that people in my area could converse with each other while on line, sort of like over the back fence, but I haven't really gotten around to it and quite honestly I am really not very computer savvy.

[Suspicious]

10. I'm interested. n/t

[sendero]

12. I think....

... the idea has a lot of merit.

I'm a programmer also, but not real experienced in networking...

[MattBaggins]

13. I have networking experience but no real programming experience ;)

I would echo the suggestion from above to use encryption, but would add the idea of using a trusted network and utilizing public/private key signatures.

[renegade000]

15. i'm interested

TJHSST coder reporting for duty :P

[scottxyz]

16. This is a great idea - maybe the underlying app has been written - Waste

There is a new program out called Waste (300k) that was released open-source for only a few HOURS by its developer before his corporate honchos (he worked for a subsidiary of AOL) made him yank it from all their sites. (Didn't matter - this baby spread like WILDFIRE once it hit the net. It's still all over the place aside from AOL.)

It's got peer-to-peer chat, & file transfer with all the right features:

- private and encrypted, where existing users decide whether and how far to let in new users based on different levels of trust

- peer-to-peer, so, like the internet itself, it still runs if any particular nodes go down, and it doesn't depend on any one ISP.

It might be just a question of tweaking / building on top of this open-source program.

= = =

This idea - releasing a new web app (other than just a browser) in order to create a different communications "topology" - is very BIG. Lots of revolutions just happen because the technology allows it.

The GOP revolution of the past 30 years is arguably just a confluence of different ways of "gaming" the system - Texas gerrymandering, Choicepoint, push polling, the Mighty Wurlitzer, CIA plants at WaPo and NYT - and many times the best way around a technological obstacle is simply A BETTER TECHNOLOGY.

If the voice of the people is not being heard because Judith Miller at the Times (or WHOEVER) is a mouthpiece of the Administration - then MAKE THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE HEARD.

I think a private encrypted chat/filetransfer technology - something that would never crash and which ASHCROFT could never break - would be great.

I'd also like to see some way of indexing and aggregating the things discussed - just a way of holding on to content that people want to keep, and a way of making it findable later, and maybe collaboratively deciding on some of the "best" content.

It would be great to have lots of people typing in, talking in, reading out loud, drawing, ranting on the keyyboard or on-air - and a whole 'nuther army rating the rants and keeping us posted on the Best of the Best - so the rest of us could have cool stuff to read and listen to without having to beg Clear Channel to keep Howard in our "market" - we'd automatically have a thousand Howards to choose from.

I'm talking two-way writing/reading talking/listening on private encrypted indexed/summarized/rated networks - talking to each other maybe, exporting their top 10 hits (their top-10 lists of conservative idiots, their top essays, their top posts, their top recitations, their top videos) to each other maybe - until a whole bunch of streams of grassroots-generated text audio and video are available all day long wo we can GIVE THE BOOT TO THE MEDIA WHORES ONCE AND FOR ALL.


http://www.instantmessagingplanet.com/enterprise/article.php/3300391

Much of what has been written about WASTE, the controversial peer-to-peer (P2P) application released without permission by an America Online programmer, has centered around its notorious origins. But largely overshadowed by the brouhaha is a significant work of collaborative technology that enables secure, basic communication -- and from which makers of more corporate-ready applications might learn.

The WASTE flap began in May, when programmer Justin Frankel published a working version of the application, and the software's source code, and attempted to release both under the GNU General Public License, in an effort to hand WASTE and its code to the open-source community.

But Frankel happens to be the head of Nullsoft, a subsidiary of Time Warner's America Online unit, and shortly after WASTE's posting to Nullsoft's Web site, the software was removed. (Whether the software today is legally in the public domain remains in doubt; the download page was replaced with a stern notice warning from Nullsoft that "Any license that you may believe you acquired with the Software is void, revoked and terminated.")

That wasn't the end of WASTE, however. Despite being available online only for a few hours, the application and its code had already made its way into the wild; in September, an updated version of the program appeared on open-source application repository SourceForge.net.


EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

[Moderator]

20. scottxyz

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you


DU Moderator

[scottxyz]

17. Waste - open-source software - description:

WASTE is a software product and protocol that enables secure distributed communication for small (on the order of 10-50 nodes) trusted groups of users.

WASTE is designed to enable small companies and small teams within larger companies to easily communicate and collaborate in a secure and efficient fashion, independent of physical network topology.

Some bits of information about WASTE:

* WASTE is currently available for 32-bit Windows operating systems, and as a limited functionality server for FreeBSD and MacOS X. Porting to other operating systems should be a breeze, as the source is provided (and the network code itself is pretty portable).
* WASTE is licensed under the GPL.
* WASTE currently provides the following services:
o Instant Messaging (with presence)
o Group Chat
o File browsing/searching
o File transfer (upload and download)
* Network architecture: WASTE uses a distributed architecture that allows for nodes to connect in a partial mesh type network. Nodes on the network can broadcast and route traffic. Nodes that are not publicly accessible or on slow links can choose not to route traffic. This network is built such that all services utilize the network, so firewall issues become moot.
* Security: WASTE uses link-level encryption to secure links, and public keys for authentication. RSA is used for session key exchange and authentication, and the links are encrypted using Blowfish in PCBC mode. The automatic key distribution security model is very primitive at the moment, and may not lend itself well to some social situations.

http://waste.sourceforge.net/

[tkmorris]

19. I like the idea

It really suggests some interesting possibilities.

[booley]

21. sure!

bumpty bump bump

[info being]

23. OK, I've been lazy...let me describe the infobeing messaging agent

- Free User-to-user email message-routing based on the "subject matter" of message and location of the user (optional). In other words, I can send a message about an "anti-WTO protest" and have it go to all the people, and only the people, who have indicated an interest in that kind of message. It helps people make the right connection without all the "noise".

- Free news-routing using that same paradigm. Our solution spiders thousands of blogs (news.infobeing.net) and routes news items based on the topic of the news item (so users get a variety of uncensored viewpoints on any topic). We spider RSS feeds and route the messages via email.

- Web Services integration so that "subscriptions" can be set from any site and messages can be sent from any site.

The next phase of infobeing (which we're developing now) will have a much more "modern" UI, not require registration to access the application, and a number of other improvements. The idea is to keep the app free for "public" users...and charge for Private networks and custom set-ups. So its a good business model, not just a good technology for grass-roots organizing.

We're always looking for new business partners, so if anyone would like to discuss partnering, please write to [e-mail].

Note: the site that you see today can be considered BETA. It is fully functional...but note that the message-routing functionality is off-line today. It will be back on-line shortly, so feel free to sign up and create subscriptions.

Feedback of any kind is encouraged.

[info being]

24. einniv, I wish you luck but I have to share something...

About 18 months ago...I was in your position. I was convinced that if the right kind of solution existed...people would naturally use it and progress would be made. Furthermore, I had a kick-ass, original, and yet simple idea that actually works.

After putting together a development team who believed in the idea, and spending 6 months building the initial application, I found out there's more to it than that.

Just look at what happens on this board. I'm addressing you directly with a VERY relevant application that's ALREADY DONE. And yet, for some reason, I feel like Dennis Kucinich in a debate...completely ignored.

Now, it may be the case that my messaging, my site, my app isn't perfect and doesn't completely make sense...but why is it that nobody even addresses me at all? I don't get it. That's the kind of response I've gotten for the past year from EVERYONE who calls themself a "Progressive".

The fact is, most Progressive Liberals would rather complain than do something. And when one of us does do something, we are ignored. I know you don't believe me, but that is what you are up against. You will have to advertise the hell out of it to get anybody to pay attention...and how can you afford to do that without any revenue being generated?

So, lacking necessary attention at the grass-roots level...I'm turning this into a B2B app. so I can make some money and get the word out.

Cheers