Can An Atheist Win The Presidency?

[Yavin4]

Can someone that does not believe in God at all be elected to the presidency in our time? If not, what does that say about us as a nation?

Personally, I don't think that any candidate that doesn't believe in God can ever be elected nor even considered a serious candidate for the presidency, and this proves to me that we are closer to being a theocracy far more than we are to being a true democracy.

[Bertha Venation]

1. Not a chance. eom

[andyjackson1828]

31. Lincoln, Grant, Taft & Hoover

As others have mentioned before, It is indeed quite possible that we have already had at least one athiest president.

I think Lincoln would be the most likely. I belive he wasn't a member of any church, though he might have been a Deist

Grant was never even baptized. He missed services at West Point and was arrested and got 8 demerits.

I think Taft was a Unitarian, probably the farthest you can get from Christianity and still get elected.

Hoover was a Quaker. Could someone weigh in on whether Quakers are technically Christians? I've been inside Meeting Houses and have never seen a cross. And from my understadning of their faith, it does not seem that they have to accept Jesus as the son of God.

[Az]

35. Lincoln at one time

Is conjectured to have been an atheist. But prior to his presidency he seems to have gone through a conversion or at least a softening of his position.

[Bertha Venation]

37. You don't have to have a cross in your church to be a Christian.

Yes, Quakers belong under the name "Christians."

Nor do you have to be baptised to be a Christian.

Is there any data showing that any of these men was an avowed atheist? That was the original question, no?

No one who says in public "I do not believe in God," and answers the same way every time he's asked "Do you believe in God," will ever be elected president.

I hope I someday get to eat my words someday, though. I hate to think of who we might someday exclude because of many folks' prejudice.

[ArkDem]

42. More detail on Lincoln's thoughts...........

http://www.ubcaustin.org/devotionals/devot_carter02.htm

[JackRiddler]

68. more than possible

Keep in mind how many people - politicians especially - only pretend faith to fit in.

Do we know Bush is a Christian? Why, because at age 40 his Daddy forced him to clean up and get religion so he could become Prez?

How do we even know what the heads of the "Christian" Scam Empires (Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Oral "give me 8 million dollars" Roberts, etc.) really believe? These are vast, tax-free, completely unaccountable multi-billion-dollar businesses!

This is why the original question of this thread should specify OPENLY agnostic or atheist president.

I once ran a poll on this - who might we see first, a woman, a black person or an open agnostic as president... ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=713493

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. nope

but neither can a woman, a gay person, or possibly a minority...and even catholics have a smaller chance of being a president.

[MarianJack]

43. I Respectfully Disagree.

I do believe that I will live to see a woman President. By the way, I'm almost 49 and plan on being around for awhile unless I p*ss off my wife too much and she dispatches me early!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. actually so do i

i was just thinking in the next two elections...i believe someday we may see hillary up there.

[onehandle]

3. No.

[david_vincent]

4. I find it interesting

that in the 19th century, we had several Unitarian presidents. In my opinion, that could never happen today.
Short answer: no.

[HootieMcBoob]

5. absolutely

all he or she would have to do would be to pretend to be a religious person. I think that's what Bush is doing right now. If he were a true Christian there's no way he would behave the way he does.

But, I don't think that someone who honestly declared that they were "atheist" would be able to win in the United States today.

[myopic4141]

62. Shrubby is a religioius

fanatic because he replaced his drinking crutch with his religious crutch.

[kimchi]

6. Nyet.

Nor will a Buddhist, Wiccan, or Hindu. Non-Christians are the minority; and people like to vote for those who have a similar outlook. We have a long way to go.

[DrWeird]

7. Not as long as...

christians believe atheists are evil and they're going to be punished forever in the afterlife for it.

[Cat Atomic]

8. Roman emperors made a big show of their piety, too.

It was bullshit, of course, but they had to play up the "traditional values". Our politicians are no different.

I think we've had plenty of atheist presidents. They just made the religious motions in public.

[terrya]

9. No. Under no circumstances. At least right now.

Maybe we'll be more enlightened in 100 years.

Terry

[RobertSeattle]

10. In a hundred years

It's a megatrend, but it will eventually happen.

(Unless Jesus comes back by then... :evilgrin:)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

You mean 100 years AFTER the first non-white or woman President.

Which will happen God (yeah I know I know) knows when.

[Abe Linkman]

11. How do you know we haven't already had an atheist President?

You really should be more careful with the way you communicate these things. What you think you said is: "Can an AVOWED Atheist win the Presidency?".

Fortunately, it's not an important question.

[Az]

12. Gallop poll shows

That if an honest atheist runs for office over 50% will vote against them for just that reason. There are currently no open atheists sitting in any significant elected office. Every politician scrambles to appear more pious than the next candidate.

Oppression. Your soaking in it.

[RebelOne]

13. Not in this day and age.

Maybe in 100 years or so.

[demnan]

14. Sure

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams.

Especially John Adams.

[Az]

17. Um

George Washington was a Deist, Thomas Jefferson was a Universalist/Deist/Lapsing Christian. And John Adams was indeed Christian.

[jsw_81]

15. Unfortunately, no

I'm an atheist and have learned that when it comes to religion, this country (especially the south) is in many ways like Saudi Arabia and Iran. Millions of American voters have this idiotic idea that one can't be moral without "faith" in some sort of religion, and they're extremely hostile toward anyone who dares to question such a worldview.

I sincerely hope that we will become more secular in years to come, but right now no openly atheist person has a chance to win the presidency or any other high office for that matter. But I have no doubt that there are several -- maybe even dozens -- of closeted atheists and agnostics in the House, Senate, and Governor's mansions. Hopefully they'll be able to come out some day.

[Roon]

16. I used to think you almost HAD to be atheist to be Prez

A true Christian wouldn't kill anyone...no matter what.

Same goes for soldiers.

[stopbush]

54. So atheists are killers?

Exqueeze me, but "Xtians" have been doing their fair share of the killing in the world for quite some time. Hitler was a Xtian, just like bush. The fact is that even the most reprehensible person can find the appropriate Bible verses to support whatever evil they embrace. Couple that with the open-ended promise of salvation at some later date, and the Christ-sanctioned slaughter continues.

I'd think atheists are probably some of the LEAST likely people to act as killers.

Yep...we've got a long way to go...even on DU.

[charlie]

18. Nope

Sucks out loud, but there it is.

[Fenris]

19. Yes, but he'd have to lie and pay lip service to Jesus

An open atheist? Not a chance.

[Beetwasher]

20. Only If They Lie and Claim They're Not

It's discrimination for damn sure...

[Yavin4]

21. My Next Question Is This: Why Is It So Important for Believers..

to have others believe as they do? Why are they so insecure about their beliefs that they want their president to worship as they do? I don't get this need for mass conformity.

[charlie]

28. Dunno about insecurity

but a lot of people seem to worry about whether or not God is "on America's side." Maybe it's a small measure of insurance to be sure the country isn't cast adrift without divine support. Just guessin'...

[mlawson]

73. I can tell you what I was told, as a child.

I had to go to church every Sunday. It wasn't a fundie church, but it wasn't Unitarian, either. Anyway, we were told in no uncertain terms, that ANYone who does not believe that Jesus died for our sins, etc., would go to hell, period. And it was OUR responsibility to CONVERT those who either didn't believe, or were of a 'false' religion (which was any other one), or who had never HEARD of the gospel. If these unfortunates died without 'being saved', they would of course burn in hell, but that it was partly OUR fault...

I gather that many many people still believe this.

[Birthmark]

22. No frickin' way.

Atheists all worship the devil. Do you want the devil running America? DO YOU?!?!?! </sarcasm>

[ochazuke]

23. Possible trend in opinion polls

I recall a poll from maybe twenty years ago stating that (relying on my memory only) about 65% would not vote for an athiest and 75% would not vote for a homosexual.

Then the other day, a poll said 41% would not consider an athiest.

At this rate, an athiest might one day have a chance a long time from now, if the religious folk don't blow the place up in the meantime.

[stevedeshazer]

24. I agree

I'm sure we've had atheist presidents already. They just couldn't come out of the closet.

Candidates must at least feign belief. Sad but true.

I'm an agnostic who would be more comfortable by far with an atheist president than a fundamentalist anything.

[BiggJawn]

25. No, because his mere exisitence would be a "persecution".

what does it say about us as a Nation? Uh, that we're a bunch of un-enlightened superstitious so-and-sos?

After all, if we have a President who doesn't believe in GAWD, then Jesus will cry, he'll ask his dad to turn his back on us, the magic 9-11 teddy bears will stop working, and terra-ists will fly all the airplanes in the world into our big buildings.

Knock Wood.

[arcane1]

26. sadly, no, one cannot

:(

[Not Me]

27. It's an interesting concept...

I am not sure that it is totally out of the question. This country seems to place a lot more on celebrity and personality than anything else.

Case in point: Do you know Rudy Guiliani's or Schwarzenegger's religious affiliations? Does anyone care?

Reagan claimed to be Christian, and certainly pandered to them, but was often criticized by the right for not going to church.

[Book Lover]

61. Both Roman Catholic

FWIW.

[Indiana Democrat]

29. Of course not.

And what does that say about us as a Nation?

Were're a nation that respects God...And that's a big reason as to why we're the greatest nation in the history of man.


Oh...And we're not a "True Democracy" regardless of this situation.

Concerning this situation, it's the people's choice...That simple fact as nothing to do with theocracies...Of which we aren't even close.

[Forkboy]

57. Funniest post o the day

[Indiana Democrat]

70. Why's that?

[chiburb]

30. In Russia yes, here no. n/t

.

[tom_paine]

32. No, not unless they lied and said they worshipped JAY-SUS!

No.

[donsu]

33. probably already has happened

in past times, and still today in some situations, being an atheist can be hazardous to your health. or hazardous to your successful climb to the political top. or hazardous to your well being in a family situation.

[billyskank]

34. Yes. An atheist is in the White House right now. n/t

[Az]

36. Um, not funny n/t

[billyskank]

39. Not a joke.

If a person really believes in God then they must also believe that all people are basically their brothers and sisters. Do you see any kind of compassion for his fellow man and woman in George W. that indicates he has any such conception?

The answer to the original question is as another poster said above: yes, an atheist certainly can win the presidency. So long as they lie about it and say that they follow Jesus.

[Az]

45. I'm sure

you are aware of a couple of actions taken in history that claimed to be in the name of god that might be taken as horrendous by others. This is part of the very discrimination we are talking about here. It is permissible to lump negative traits on atheists. George Bush must be an atheist because no person that really believes in god could possibly be bad. Thats discrimination folks.

Some people who believe in god do bad things. Some people who believe in god hurt people. Some people who believe in god rejoice at the though of those that do not believe in god suffering in hell. They have told me so. So you can imagine what I think of the notion "George must be an atheist" means to me.

[billyskank]

47. OK. I see it this way:

there are immoral atheists, there are moral atheists, and there are moral theists. If one is imorral and claims to be a theist, one is lying; either to others, or to themselves.

Atheism does not mean one cannot be moral. Morality means to live ones' life according to some rules. If you're an atheist, still you agree with me that to kill someone is wrong, yeah? To hurt someone is wrong too. As is to steal from them. All these are rules, principles, and to live by them is to live morally. They do not come exclusively from a belief in God.

However, as I see it, an immoral atheist is a contradiction in terms. You mentioned actions taken in the name of God. I do not see how people who believe in a God of all beings will perform such acts. Their so-called faith is meaningless: they are de facto atheists. It is far better to be an honest atheist than such a twisted "believer." The people who flew the planes on 11th Sept. 2001 were deluded by their superiors in the name of God; their superiors, however, are working for themselves and no-one else.

[Az]

50. Its not really

your place to tell others the mind of god. That is the key problem to god. No one claims to know his mind. I can find passages in the bible that will turn your stomach that show god behaving horrendously. Does it matter to me whether the person peresecuting me has got the right interpretation or not?

Morality based on the bible is just as interpretitve as the most relativistic moralizing atheist could ever be. Without god here telling you whether you got the interpretation right its really just your own beliefs and biases coming through shored up by verses and quotes. Wars have been fought over the interpretation of that book. They will continue to be fought over. And people will continue to kill in the name of god while others call out for tolerance in the name of god. Talk to Rev Phelps about god and love. I am sure he will give you a different interpretation than what you espouse.

Incidently I welcome any that favor peace, tolerance, and understanding as their guiding principals.

[billyskank]

53. Fair enough.

Though I still think Bush is a fake. It would fit the profile: he claimed to be a uniter, and is extremely divisive. He said he would follow a humble foreign policy. Pre-emptive wars. He says he's a Christian. I rest my case.

:)

[corporatewhore]

46. So atheists are not compassionate

puhleaze :eyes:

[billyskank]

48. I said not so.

What I said was that a theist should be compassionate. I did not say an atheist cannot be, and I do not say so.

[immoderate]

60. au contraire....

It is the atheist that believes that all are brothers and sisters. Most religionists have a belief system that recognizes elites, e.g. those who are chosen and make it to heaven, those that are damned and you know...

When Jerry Falwell calls a person a "good Christian" what is he really saying?

--IMM

[donsu]

38. you got it billyskank

nt

[Az]

40. Do you see any possible way

that this might be construed by an atheist as discrimination? Just asking.

[David__77]

41. It would be an exceptional case.

I think there's no problem with this for governor, senator, etc. But in many states this would be a problem. The person would have to have an astounding resume.

[Mr. McD]

49. Taft was not a Christian.

"I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe"
William Howard Taft

[jsw_81]

51. Jefferson was also a critic of Christianity

He took a pair of scissors to the Bible and cut out the various "miracles" and just kept the stuff he liked. Neat guy, that Thomas Jefferson.

[charlie]

52. Taft was a Unitarian

Many Unitarians don't accept the divinity of Jesus, but consider themselves Christians, since his teachings are one of the foundations of their belief.

[Mr. McD]

55. Most Unitarians I know are Atheist or Deist

[Az]

56. There was a major change

in the Unitarian Universalist congregations about 40 years ago. They were formerly two seperate religions. In the 60s they combined and formed the UU congregation. In the past they have each been a clearly seperate sect.

Unitarians came from the struggle within the Christian church over whether God/Jesus/Holy Ghost were a trinity or seperate individuals. The Unitarians represented by Arius came down on the God is one individual and Jesus was a different individual. Thus they were excommunicated after the Council of Nicea declared the Triune nature of god.

The Universalists came from the belief that Jesus died for everyones sins. Period. He absolves everyone whether they accept it or not. According to their teachings god's love is so great he can forgive all. Thus Universalists believe hell was abolished.

So a Unitarian in Tafts time would still likely be a believer in God and the existance of Jesus. They just would not necissarily believe the relationship was the same as accepted by modern Christians.

Today knowing a person is a Unitarian Universalist tells you nothing other than they are into tolerance and getting together with people with a diverse background of beliefs and ways.

[mlawson]

74. Yeah, but that was before the days of media-led attacks from

the RW. He wouldnt have a chance nowadays.

[Mick Knox]

58. According to my Prez Trivia Book

Jefferson - No Official Affiliation .. spoke of god on many occasions, anti established religion

Lincoln - No Official Affiliation although he spoke of god

A Johnson - No Affiliation

Hayes - Officially no affiliation - former methodist

[usregimechange]

59. Polls indicate: no

According to a recent Gallup poll 95% of Americans are willing to vote for a Black candidate for President, 92% for a Female or Jewish candidate, 59% for a Gay candidate, but only 49% would vote for an atheist candidate.

Steinfels, P. (2001). Organized atheism gets a rough ride. The Hamilton Spectator, WEEKEND LIFE; Pg. L05.

[ReaderSushi]

63. Highly unlikely.

When I tell people that I am an atheist, I always get a look of tremendous surprise followed by the question: How can you not believe in anything?

As if believing in a deity is in fact everything. I've had several people flat out call me immoral for not believing in any deity. Keep in mind that I live in the liberal safe-haven that is NYC. Many people say they don't care which god you worship but that tolerance is conditional in that you do have worship some god.

Polls say that 50% of Americans will not vote for an atheist on religious grounds but that is probably much higher. Most people don't like being thought of as bigots; the poll results were probably skewed by a fib or two.

As a non-white atheist immigrant let me say that I can't shake the feeling that tolerance in the USA is nothing but a shiny sheen on the surface. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly better here than in other parts of the world but a glass ceiling isn't much better than a bullet through my skull. It's that whole, "Give me liberty or give me death" deal.

[lostnfound]

64. As long as he lies and claims to be a Christian Republican nt

[corporatewhore]

65. I'd love it for a change

[JanMichael]

66. What? No way. This system is too corrupted. Honest people don't stand a...

...a chance in, um, "hell" of beating down the pulpits, tvs and preachers, that brainwash Americans daily.

[alarcojon]

67. I give it a hundred years

for an open atheist to become president. I concur with those who say that there are probably atheists in high public office right now who know that they have to feign religious faith - it's part of the job.

[arwalden]

69. I'd Imagine That Some Already Have... CLOSET Atheists

[Skittles]

75. I agree

absolutely.

[Vas Liz]

71. No

Unfortunately GLBT and atheists people are still heavily discriminated against in this nation. So I suppose that's two strikes against me if I ever wanted to run for pres. Fortunately I don't.

[jonnyblitz]

72. not in our life time.

[Forkboy]

76. Another bash Athiests thread!

DU,why do you hate us so?

:evilgrin:

[ringmastery]

77. I think an atheist person can get elected

but they would have to "fudge" a little.

They can't be out in the open and run as a proud atheist.

They would have to say their religious beliefs are personal and private and that they are a "spiritual" person or other such crap. And that they believe in a higher being.

I think the first step is getting someone like this elected, someone who is not part of an ORGANIZED RELIGION, but is a spiritual person.

There are lots of Americans like this.

[charlie]

78. Oddly, I think such a candidate

would have even less a chance at getting elected. If faced with the choice of an avowed atheist or someone who might be a Wiccan or a New Ager, I'm guessing the folks that put stock in having a "Godly" prez would go with the atheist.

[cryofan]

79. Yes, if he hides it (I suspect Kerry is an atheist)

Of course, no openly atheist candidate can make it through, but he can if he hides it. I suspect Kerry may be atheist. Anyone have any insight on that?