A question for Jews who have seen "The Passion"

[scottcsmith]

For my fellow Jews who have seen "The Passion" and found it to be anti-Semitic, I have to wonder: have you found any sympathetic Christian ears to your concerns? When you express your concerns are people genuinely interested in hearing your point of view, or are your concerns dismissed outright as frivolous? Having my concerns dismissed has been my experience. I really wish people would be a little more empathetic to Jewish sensitivity of this subject. We know that for over 2,000 years, so many of our people have died because of the false belief that our ancestors committed deicide.

I highly recommend the book "Christian Anti-Semitism: a History of Hate" by Professor William Nicholls. It traces the roots of Christian anti-Semitism in a very thorough, erudite way. It opened my eyes when I first read it.

[xray s]

1. I am a Christian. I do not dismiss your concerns.

I am aware of the history of anti-Semitic teachings in the church. Luther's anti-Semitic writings. Hitler's use of those writings as propaganda to fit his own his own agenda, and Hitler's comments about a particular German passion play in Oberammergau. All of these concerns are very valid.

Many other Christians also are sensitive to your concerns, and are openly discussing it. As an example;

http://www.elca.org/ea/Interfaith/gibson_statement.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/107/51.0.html

I haven't seen the movie yet so I can not comment on whether it promotes anti-Semitism. But if it does, I will speak out on it at my church, which is having a forum on the movie over the next two weekends.

We are all children of God.

peace

[Skittles]

2. just curious scott

what on earth would possess you to see such trash, knowing Mel Gibson in anti-Semitic? Actually I cannot understand why ANYONE would want to see it.

[scottcsmith]

10. I had to see it for myself

Too many people were telling me that the film is not anti-Semitic, so I had to see for myself. I didn't want anyone to think I was going to criticize a movie I hadn't seen. Also, I felt it was important to get a Jewish perspective out regarding the movie, which I've done at my web site.

[Skittles]

14. fair enough

nt

[TacticalPeek]

3. Incidentally, slightly OT,

tonight, I believe it was on MSNBC, Pat Buchanan on Scarborough Country, perhaps filling in (?), suffered a world-class smack-down at the hands of Dana Kennedy, the MSNBC entertainment correspondent, discussing the 'Passion' on this issue.

I didn't see it all, and hope they post a transcript soon, because I would do it an injustice trying to recall the exchanges this close to sack time.

Most of what I heard was about Pilate v. the Sanhedrin. Dana was 'reviewing' it as a viewer, and Pat would jab her and she would break his arm. Then he'd get up off the canvas and swing and she'd break his leg. And he kept getting up and she kept body-slamming him.
I've seen Pat be reasonable many times. I've even seen him reasonably adjust his view in the midst of a good discussion. But he's such a jerk on this issue he just couldn't let it go, and Dana just wiped the floor with him, no quarter. It was a thing of beauty.

Billy Graham's boy, Franklin or whoever, was there, mostly shouting from ringside at a safe distance from Kennedy's manicured claws. Man, I hope there's a transcript.

[JasonDeter]

6. I saw the same thing. All I saw was an angry woman who HATED

to be told she was wrong. I found much humor in it except for the fact of her obvious disgust of Franklin Graham which was uncalled for.

[Michael Harrington]

11. Distaste for Eraserhead Graham

Is very called for. He's a first rate cretin.

[TacticalPeek]

18. I link, y'all decide.

Let's go to MSNBC's Dana Kennedy.

What is your take on it, Dana?

DANA KENNEDY, NBC ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR: I agree with Jamie to the point that I went to see the movie as someone who did not have a heavy religious background.

I had to do an immediate review after seeing the movie. And it was never my plan to say anything about the religious bias. I felt I wasn't qualified. I knew just a little bit, I would say. Certainly, I'm the polar opposite of you, Pat. But seeing the movie, what really bothered me were the scenes I think Jamie was referring to, in which the Jews bring Jesus to see Pontius Pilate.

I felt that the Jews in that scene looked so bloodthirsty, and I thought Pontius Pilate was more than just portrayed as a nice guy. He seemed reasonable. He seemed anguished over the decision he had to make. I felt there were not one, not two, but three to six scenes in which we were shown over and over again how much he really didn't want to make this decision, but somehow felt he had to. And it wasn't made clear why he felt he had to appease the Jews, since he basically was in charge of them. He was the leader of the occupying force.

So, after seeing that, I felt so strongly that it was biased. It disturbed me. And when I came out into Times Square to do my immediate review, I said so.

snip

BUCHANAN: If you didn't read the Gospels, how do you know about him? (Pilate)

D. KENNEDY: I know about him from reading some history, basically.

Are you trying to tell me that Pontius Pilate was not a sadistic bully?

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHANAN: He's not a major historical figure outside of the Gospels.

D. KENNEDY: He was recalled to Rome because he was such a bully, Pat, right, yes or no?

BUCHANAN: I mean, all right, where did you get all this information?

You didn't read the Gospels, but you read some commentaries on Pilate?

D. KENNEDY: Are Gospels the only history that you know of, Pat?

BUCHANAN: What makes Pilate fairly famous, a procurator of Judea?

D. KENNEDY: He lived, Pat. He was a man. They're both secular and religious historians that discuss him.

BUCHANAN: OK.

D. KENNEDY: But I'm not here as a religious person, nor am I here to argue religion. I'm here really kind of as a viewer, just giving you my visceral reaction to a film, the same way I would if I thought a character in another movie based on history, you know, a version of history rang true or not.

BUCHANAN: Right.

D. KENNEDY: And it did not ring true to me, the scenes in which Pontius Pilate was agonizing over whether to kill Jesus.


more (much)
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4431316/

[mac2]

4. This subject has gone on way too long....

Who cares? This movie isn't worth the time on this forum.

[JasonDeter]

5. If I may

ALL the Christians I know have as their hero's Jewish people. The hero all of us hold most dear is Christ Jesus. And then there's Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, Jeremiah, Elijah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Gideon, Samson, ALL the Apostles, especially Paul. My gosh Christians LOVE the Jewish people!! We love the God of Israel, the Christ of Israel. Wait, thats the rub isn't it? We consider One to be the Messiah of Israel that the Jewish people have rejected. But if Christians are wrong its no skin off the Jewish people's nose and if we're right its no skin off Jewish people's nose. God made a promise to Abraham that He will keep. We can both look forward to that!

[bobbyboucher]

19. "It's no skin off Jewish people's nose"?

Oh that's rich. Does 2000 years of persecution and the Holocaust count as skin?

[notbush]

7. I'm a Christian of Jewish descent

I went..I saw.. I was touched...

[FDRrocks]

8. I must ask (non-jew and thus OT)

Have you seen the movie? (I haven't) How is it anti-semetic?

In the book you spoke of (which I won't read b/c of the religious aspect), does it state how people who religiously following a Jewish person are anti-semetic? Does it explain how the cognitive dissonance works?

[notbush]

9. Yes, I have seen the movie.

I found it to be very emotional.......very inspiring...very motivating......
Not anti-semitic.
However, I am a converted Christian.

[scottcsmith]

13. Yes, I've seen it

You can go to my web site and read an article I wrote which details the anti-Semitism in the film.

As far as the book goes, the notion of a Jewish Jesus is fairly new to biblical scholars. That may sound wrong, but it's true, it's been only within the last 100+ years or so that Jesus was understood to be Jewish himself.

BTW, the book was written by a Christian scholar -- at the time he wrote the book, in 1993, he was Professor Emeritus of religious studies at the University of British Columbia.

[Deb-Ter]

15. scottcsmith..

"As far as the book goes, the notion of a Jewish Jesus is fairly new to biblical scholars. That may sound wrong, but it's true, it's been only within the last 100+ years or so that Jesus was understood to be Jewish himself."

How can you say that when the Bible has been written for much longer than 100 years or so, even the new testament has been written for much longer than 100 years....it says that Jesus descended from David? I don't understand where you are getting this information from. Also in the New Testament it explains the reason that Joseph and Mary were in Jerusalem at the time of Christ's birth, the reason that they had to flee to Egypt, the reason that Jesus did his ministry in the Jerusalem area, taught in the Synagogues, etc. - it was because he was Jewish.

[Michael Harrington]

12. You should also look for

A short book called The Teaching of Contempt: The Christian Roots of Anti-Semitism by a French Jewish Professor named Jules Isaac. You might find it used or in a library. I had occasion to fish it out recently and found it quite enlightening. The stain is much deeper than I had realized.

[noonwitch]

16. A longer book on the same topic "Constantine's Sword"

By James Carroll. It's about 700 pages, but it deals with the history of christian anti-semitism.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

17. Scott I read your review

of the movie on your website. And I have to say that the way you describe the movie is not at all the way I saw it. And yes, I did see it. What I saw in the movie, and by reading the scriptures is that ALL were responsible. Where it is portrayed that it was the Jewish preists that called for Jesus to be crucified, it was also on the hands of those that idly stood by and did nothing to stop it. Can we blame EVERYONE who is german for the holocaust? Can we blame EVERYONE that is white for slavery? You simply can not lump and entire race or ethnic group for the actions of a few. No matter how you may not want to acknowledge it EVERY group, white, black, brown, yellow , Jewish, Roman etc etc etc has their share of people who do wrong all through history. Because of those few should you hold accountable the ENTIRE group? No. And I believe most people feel the same way. There are those however who will try and do just that. Just as there are those who will not acknowledge history because of a fear of being "blamed" for certain actions. I am a white person of German decent on my fathers side should I personally be held responsible for the actions my decendants may or may not have been involved with during WWII? On my mothers side there are decendants that owned slaves. Again, should I personally be held accountable for that? My family before me MAY have been involved in horrible acts of wrong and if so for that I am truely sorry but I am not personally responsible. All I know is how I would handle those situations if they were in my hands. Unfortunately we will never know the outcome because I was not there making the decisions. Please do not take my post as a personal attact. It is not. I am just trying to understand better where all the hostility is coming from.