Why The Masses Don't Care That Bush Lied About WMDs - The Ugly, Ugly Truth

[Yavin4]

Many, many, many Americans, maybe not the majority but a near majority, just wanted to kill Arabs because of 9/11. They didn't care who it was. They didn't even care if it was justified, because it wasn't. They just wanted to kill Arabs. I know that it's hard to believe, but it's true. Instead of doing a thorough investigation into why 9/11 happened and how it was a total intelligence failure on the part of the Bush admin, the media focused primarily on the emotional aspect of 9/11 for over a year. It was no mistake that Bush made his invade Iraq plea before the UN a few days after the first anniversary of 9/11.

I call it the Amadou Diallo Justification Theory. Many NYers lived in fear of street crime again because of media sensationalism of street crime. So, NYers voted in Rudy Guiliani, a real facist, who winked at police brutality. One night an innocent man, Amadou Diallo, was shot 41 times by the police while trying to enter his apartment. Most White NYers didn't really show any outrage because they justified the killing as a necessary evil to fight street crime.

Don't fool yourself. Many Americans are just as barbaric as the terrorists themselves. They see nothing wrong with killing innocent people in order to "send a message". Oddly, that's what the 9/11 hijackers also believed.

[mhr]

1. Sadly

There is a kernel of truth in your thoughts!

[leftyandproud]

17. I don't think that's it

I think the masses actually believe Bush thought they had weapons, and now that we can't find them, I doubt they will blame the moron for it...they don't consider it an outright LIE just yet...Only time, and FACTS that come out will convince them. For now, they seem to give chimpy the benefit of the doubt...but like I said--dubya is screwed anyway if he doesn't do something about these soldier deaths. Even if we find tons of VX gas buried in the middle of nowhere, dubya will still be screwed with another 400+ dead soldiers over the next few years...each one is a nail in his coffin.

[PretzelWarrior]

2. well you better help them wake up and smell the coffee about WHY

they should grow some civic responsibility and CARE. Otherwise, they'll be living in one big giant GITMO and be serving time for their "unpatriotic" views. It sounds far fetched, but we have muthafukin' psychopaths running the show. no kidding.

[WilliamPitt]

3. What masses are you talking about?

The masses the TV told you about?

The masses the polls told you about?

You're basically saying the American people are a homogonized pack of sociopaths. I don't know what neighborhood you live in, but you should think about moving.

I don't believe what the TV tells me.

I don't believe what the polls tell me.

I believe there is a different country out there than the one being described by those who are desperate to maintain the status quo. I believe people do care, and the more they know, the more they will care.

The trick is to let them know.

[Yavin4]

5. Will, I Respect Your Opinion, But

But, where were these people when Amadou Diallo was shot and the police were exonerated? Huh?

It's the same logic. "We have to send a message".

Do you really feel that the masses want an investigation into the WMD scandal like they're having in Britain?

You need to really, really look at your fellow Americans, not just the people that you associate with.

Look at them closely, and then tell me that I'm wrong.

[WilliamPitt]

13. I talked to a ton of people about Diallo

Virtually all of them disagreed with the verdict, and of course with the shooting itself.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

42. also, to blame that shooting on Guiliani is ridiculous

Do we blame Koch for the Michael Stewart murder? Now THAT was heinous. Besides, Bratton was a good influence on the NYC police force, and Guiliani can take credit for that.
As for the sheeple believing shrub... go to today's Salon.com front page story.

[Mechatanketra]

8. There's a middle ground.

I don't know that America is a pack of "homogenized psychopaths" (although make no mistake, the psychopaths are out there, and they're not isolated to Klan rallies or the like).

But I have begun to doubt that the American people still agree with Justice Robert Jackson's adage about the crime of war not being losing it, but starting it. I have to wonder if the reason why it's so hard to give the WMD story legs is that people just aren't capable anymore of doing the math "No weapons == no threat == no need for self defense == no cause for war == war crime". Strictly speaking, all the "Oh, but Iraq is better off without Saddam" sophistry should be obvious sophistry, and rather pathetic at that ... except if Americans simply don't believe anymore that self-defense is the only justifiable cause for war.

[Nevernose]

15. Which is another point entirely

Where are all of these pro-war, gung-ho, kill-em-all cowboys? I work in an office with forty cops, many or most former military. Maybe, maybe ten of them thought a war against Iraq was justified, and I live in a fairly conservative area.

The TV is my friend...it couldn't have lied to me, could it?

[misanthrope]

25. These masses...

...the same ones I encounter everyday.

Bookmark this site. http://auburn.nu/board/
Then visit it everyday for three weeks and get back to us on this subject.

And let me give you a little primer on the site: The title would have you believe that it's a sports board. Au contraire, mon frere. The denizens of said board pride themselves on their eclectic conversations, on their ability to frustrate sports fanatics with their meanderings. They see themselves as renaissance men/women who can indulge in digressive discourse on cuisine, physics, Constitutional law, arts, or what have you. They believe they are witty and well-rounded. They are computer programmers, doctors, lawyers, preachers, research scientists, engineers, pharmacists, dentists, bureaucrats, professors, and a whole wide range of college-educated folks. Post-graduate experience is quite common there.

The site is also eaten up with bigotry and the most nationalistic ultra-conservatism you can imagine. In fact, one of the cherished Board elders is a tantamount Grand Dragon who prides himself on his stentorious narrow-mindedness. And they are the future of America. Why?

Because they are Southern. They are the edge of the tide that has been slowly rising across the United States for the last decades. They are the intelligentsia of the Bubba-ization of America.

They are also a fair representation of the average people I deal with everyday in the South. Remember not too long ago when someone here wrote that a great swath of the nation, comprised chefly of the South and the Central Heartland, stood in direct opposition to the ethics extolled on DU? Recall that the poster said those citizens "hate our guts and everything we stand for"? Well, that poster was correct and this is just a small slice of them. A small and frighteningly well-educated slice.

And as far as "knowing," all they seek to know is where to tune in to see the next brown-eyed head on the chopping block. I face the cascade of xenophobia day after day after dreadful day. It's wearisome and frightening.

[RobinA]

33. Listening To People

told me. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... I hear no one outside of DU (and my own head) who is particularly concerned about WMD, Iraq, the Patriot Act, lies, uranium, etc. The polls appear to bear this out. I might be more inclined to disbelieve the polls if they didn't reflect what I hear with my own ears from actual people.

[TXlib]

43. Will, Houston is like that.

I try to enlighten my freeper coworkers. I really, really try.

I show them articles I find on TruthOut, along with the original source.

Unless the news comes from CNN or Fox, they discount it completely. And even if it's in newspaper or a news magazine, if it conflicts with their preconceptions, they feel it must be wrong, or slanted, or exaggerated.

I'm dealing with a slackjawed numbness to the truth, here.

More than one of my coworkers said they don't care if Bush lied, that we just needed to clean out Iraq, and Bush did what he had to to get it done.

I really do worry that enough of the American population feels this way to prevent this from becoming a major issue.

Moving away, and living somewhere a little more sane my make me happier, but it would be the cowardly thing to do. I might change some attitudes here.

[WindRavenX]

4. I remember...

...hearing people online who suddenly called for Arab-Americans to be sent to internment camps. When I brought up that this was what we did to the Japanese in WW2, their response was "Who cares"?
We never do learn from the past.
Even today, there is a tremendous misunderstanding of Islam in the West, especially in the U.S. American muslims are frequently finding out that the hard way.

[Erika]

6. Bush lied. Don't forget That!

Bush lied about WMD's. He says he is a champion of Islam but lied about the WMD's. I hope everyone hits him on his lies against Islam and the WMD's. Hard.

[WindRavenX]

10. "A champion for Islam"???

Are you shitting me? He actually said that? What bullshit!
And goddamn right we need to hit him hard on WMD. It means we went to war in Iraq and now have our troops being picked off by lone wolves- for what? And we may have to send MORE troops to Iraq.
He creates messes wherever he goes. And leaves everyone else to clean up after him x(

[Classical_Liberal]

7. We haven't taught geography very well

many americans don't know one middle eastern country from another, and they don't know the different sects in those countries either. They don't know that the Baathist were secularist and Osamas enemy. They don't know the Iranians are Shiites and also Osamas enemy. There is also ignorance feeding this bigotry. Anyway public opinion is slowly but surely turning around. It is turning much quicker than it did in the 60s.

[deek]

9. that is the ugly truth

"They see nothing wrong with killing innocent people in order to "send a message". Oddly, that's what the 9/11 hijackers also believed."

[Merlin]

11. You may be right. BUT they didn't care about Clinton's blowjob either

Yet that led to a huge imbroglio that was very potent in bringing about Selection 2002.

This is a winning issue. There's real substance here. We can nail these miserable, rotten bastards.

Weaponsgate Lives!

[Terwilliger]

20. No doubt

The media has slanted things to the right for a long time. People in this climate are not ready to accept anything so outside the norm.

Clinton's cock was a penis. That was its allure, and thats why the Repukes and the media could sell it.

Bush's traitorous, criminal behavior is something people cannot easily accept. The people could have gone on continuously supporting Bush even though everything was questionable (look at the JFK conspiracy) as long as the media was patting them on the head.

Now, with some actual hard evidence, people MIGHT be able to get some healthy skepticism over their attitudes towards government.

[loyalsister]

28. Perfect example of a principle

"the bigger the lie the easier it is to get people to believe it." People do not want to know the truth when it is horrifying and threatening. They are perfectly willing to press the issue when it's not going to destroy any part of their idealism. That the president lies about insignificant things is a well known fact. Thus, Clinton's lie did not rock people's world. Even when there was an impeachement. It was an entertaining spectacle for some, revenge for others. Some of us, however saw it differently.
THIS thing is different. Many many people who didn't even vote for Bush wanted to put everything behind them, accept him as president who has good intentions and will do what HE thinks is best for our country. These voters may dislike what he does in terms of policy, but they will appreciate his intentions and give him the benefit of the doubt for making decisions with our best interest in mind. NOT because they support his policies, but JUST BECAUSE he is the president and they have some kind of need to trust him.
OKAY, now they are hearing that the guy they HAVE TO trust just because he's the president told them a lie about something that matters and it is a total threat to their world. It is such a horrifying concept that they don't want to believe it.
Remember how little lies are harmless and nearly even justified! When they're exposed noone unaffected feels any kind of damage.
The truths exposing the big lies that could actually affect us are a "poison" people don't want to swallow.

"Oh, beautiful for spacious skies
But now those skies are theatening
They're beating plowshares into swords
For this arrogant liar who was selected king----(my substitutions apologies to Don- although he might not mind)
Armchair warriors often fail
And we've BEEN POISONED BY THESE FAIRY TALES
The lawyers clean up all deatails
Since daddy had to lie"
---(Don Henley "The End Of The Innocence")

[Bandit]

36. The Media cared about Clinton's Blowjob but they don't care about Bush* Li

The Media is the guilty party here. It's all about sensationalism and ratings. People are quite easily led. The Media pounded on Clinton every day for eight years and low and behold a lot of people hate the Clintons. There is mostly silence from the Media about anything negative of this Administration so lo and behold the people like Bush*. People are led to their beliefs they don't research things. Until there is a noticable switch in the way Media reports, Bush* will continue to have an easy ride.

[ParanoidPat]

12. "Many Americans are just as barbaric as the terrorists themselves"....

....SO WHAT! That doesn't matter as far as the Constitution is concerned! :evilgrin:

Unless you've given up on demanding that your elected representatives live up to their oath of office. :(

Call, write, fax, e-mail every one of them every day and remind them who they really are and why they are there! Remind them they are not the leaders they think themselves to be, they're only public servants. They swore to support and defend the Constitution, the basic measure of our laws. Remind them. If they fail to prosecute those who violate our laws, they violate their oath. Never let them forget that! :)

This country is not a popularity contest, unless you allow it to be!

THINK ABOUT IT!
GET MAD!
DO SOMETHING OR SHUT UP AND LET THEM DO IT FOR YOU!

:kick:

There, I feel much better now! :)

[Terwilliger]

14. The ultimate goal of conservative America is security

The basic drive of the masses is that security, like you say, but it's on a global level. We're seeing our efforts to bring security to the world by ignoring the ugly truths of our actions. People living in New York in the 1850's felt just awful about the poor Indians and all the conflict, they were just as satisfied that the actions were being carried out, and that they din't have to do it themselves.

Our country is imperialist through self-righteousness and antipathy.

[fabius]

16. One thing people will for damn sure care about...

...is one American killed every day in Iraq. It can not go on too many days before Bush's support goes into the toilet. It's like the water torture, drip, drip, drip.

Shrub was too stupid to figure out what a sorry mess he was getting us into and now he will pay politically. It will take time but he will pay.

Watergate took time, Vietnam took time, but the liars came down eventually.

[Classical_Liberal]

19. Every one wants security. Republicans offer faux security

.

[Old and In the Way]

22. If that's their goal, they sure have a strange way of making it happen.

Appears they've assured our insecurity for generations to come. Sadly, the "adults" in charge, chickenhawks all, seem to think diplomacy means having a superior military force. Truth couldn't be farther from their collective mindset. We won't be secure as long as there are nations/populations that live in fear and insecurity.

Declaring war on Iraq might have been calculated to promote Bush's political security, but it has set back our national security and the entire world's by many, many years.

[bobthedrummer]

18. You are wrong.

Our perceptions are being manipulated 24/7 by BFEE, some people will always react that way-but you are totally wrong about the American spirit and the goodness in our hearts.

[Darth_Ole]

21. Yavin4 has a good point.

At my high school after Sept. 11 some guys I knew kept saying how they "just don't like Muslims."

And on the 1 year anniversary of Sept. 11 we wrote essays about our feelings towards it and some assholes wrote about how Islam is an evil religion, etc.

"If they're brown take 'em down" is a good way to sum up our country's feelings towards Arabs.

[WindRavenX]

23. Or the phrase I saw on a bumpersticker..

"Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out"
:puke: :puke:

[bobthedrummer]

24. Darth_Ole

This nation is not a high-school, trust me on that. I have seen the same things, from a variety of age groups, but Yavin4 is wrong, dear one.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. "Kill Arabs! Women and children first!"

Yes a certain percentage actually articulate this attitude with out shame, but you can just point out that that is how Osama feels about Americans.

[loyalsister]

27. Evidence?

Please. You discussed NY, but you're assertion, appears to include much more of the population. This is such a strong statement to make. Please back it up!

[deutsey]

29. Sadly, I have heard conservative "regular folk" say this

Better to kill those Arab children than to have those "towelheads" kill our children.

:puke:

[teryang]

30. It's true

Just go to any pub or barber shop and listen to people talk. They are complete idiots. It's always been this way.

Guess I've lived in the wrong neighborhood, in all the different places I've lived in for the past fifty years. The only time I've heard intelligent comments from ordinary people about American policies was when I lived in a foreign country.

[CWebster]

31. On the other hand

There was that hugh outpouring of support from small contributors all over the country - seeking a candidate to stand up to the junta's lies. Dean tapped into the growing disatisfaction at the grassroots level. This can not be discounted, and is cause for optimism.

[Palacsinta]

32. "We don't want to go through 'that' again"

meaning the Clinton crap. I've heard this a couple of times from some moderate friends. It seems that some people would rather turn a blind eye to the corruption in this government rather than face the truth. Much easier psychologically.

[Ekaterina]

34. hmmmm

Lots of interesting threads here with all kinds of ideas - misanthrope thinks it is because of Southerners (I'd be offended but I think I'll just afford that theory the attention it deserves); Paranoid Pat says we should write, fax, call, email our "representatives" every day to get our point across (I do, and now I have NEARLY enough form letters to wallpaper most of my house); etc.....It seems to me that we forget that leading up to all this chaos we had the rise of neocon radio and talk show hosts who were perfectly positioned to start planting the seeds of racism, ignorance and intolerance in the already dumbed-down brains of a LOT of our fellow countrymen.....Limbaugh and O'Reilly had quite a following BEFORE the crackpot junta of 00 which SHOULD have been a crystal clear warning that ANY matter that required more than 20 seconds of superficial thought would be flushed down the collective consciousness drainpipe in America. Remember Limbaugh telling his "dittoheads" that they didn't NEED to read the paper, he would read it for them and tell them what to think?? Well, given THAT sort of lead in, it is not at ALL surprising that people think we invaded Iraq to liberate the people, that Saddam was behind 9-11 and that George the Mass Murdering Liar really DOES talk to God.
Oh, and remember "taxation without representation"? That's what we have now if the non-responses to calls, letters, faxes and emails are any indication. Some of the form letters don't even address the subject I wrote in about. How fucocted is THAT?

[Coffee Coyote]

35. I think you are mostly correct

Telling the ugly truth in GD is a dicey prospect, and requires a thick skin. I am glad you are up for it. It didn't take long for the Toaster Posters (my nickname for the "Bush is Toast" crowd) to start browbeating you.

Taking the content of much of this forum too seriously can lead to unrealistic expectations and fits of unwarranted optimism. We know we're on the right side of history, and the isolation of this little enclave here heightens our sense of moral clarity. It is our refuge, and we feel a sense of ownership with being 'right', which leads to some serious friction between the idealists and the realists.

It is fine and noble that some DUers think highly of their fellow Americans. I tend towards the misanthrope's camp myself, having worked, taught, and lived among the "good people" of this sick nation in denial.

Denial. That is why Bush will get away with WMD, just like he has everything else. The fearmongering mileage extracted from 9-11 seems to have no limit.

[ewagner]

38. Good summary

Well said.

I've been up on this site for a little less than a month now and it is good every once in awhile to hear someone put this in proper perspective.

Incidentally, most people I meet don't really pay much attention to WMDs or Iraq or Bush for that matter. Most businessmen I meet and work with won't pay attention again until the month or week before the election and they will form their opinions then....very sad.

[Yavin4]

39. Thanks!

I know that the truth is hard to accept. Many people on this forum don't really know Americans. Maybe it's because I'm African-American and my sensibilities are heightened. However, every argument that the Bush administration made a reason for going to war was debunked before the war, during the war, and now after the war. Yet, poll after poll shows that the American people supported the war. Similar polls in other nations were against the war, including Britain, a coalition member.

You cannot blame the media for everything. Sometimes you have to blame the people.

[Davis_X_Machina]

41. I concur, Coyote.

I think it's a bit more complex than simple bloody-mindedness. There's a fair amount of racism, xenophobia and Christian triumphalism involved in the reaction to 9/11. (And a lot of that won't get owned up to in polls, Will.)

A large part of the nation went on a vicitmization high after 9/11, and like any other potent drug, it's hard to walk away from.

As the richest and most powerful nation in the world, the world's only hyperpower, America has certain responsibilities, like it or not. And whether it's fair or not, such a country is going to excite a lot of (non-violent) envy and resentment.

Both the responsibilites and being the object of such resentment take a toll. They take a fiscal toll, they take a psychic toll. People get tired.

Come 9/11, in a stunning violation of probabilities, the powerful become the vicitmized.

Once we become victims, many constraints and strictures on us are (temporarily) lifted. Acting out is understandable, if not excusable. This freedom from constraint is exciting, it's different.

It's the national version of the 'my victimhood justifies my rage' crap with which talk radio has infected a portion of the country. There are fifty million million white guys out there who think they're an oppressed and struggling minority.

Of course it's not logical for them, and for the US, it's positively silly. For a hyperpower, it's like Roseann Barr setting fire to Tom Arnold and claiming a battered woman's defense.

Bush's permanent war is an invitation to permanent victimhood, and to a permanent state of being able to do whatever we want because, dammit, we got hurt.

Somebody sooner or later has got to stage an intervention, but whoever it is, they're not going to be popular....

[Stuckinthebush]

37. I have heard people say...

The war in Iraq was justified because of 9/11.

This type of logic is mind numbing in an Alice-in-Wonderlandesque way. The administration (and the American media) did a fine job in turning 9/11 into an us vs. them game. Us (American/White/Christian) vs. Them (Arabs/Non-Christian/Non-white) is a powerful game to play when you wish to rally citizens around a personality and/or purpose.

Yes, racisim is very much a part of what has happened in Iraq.

[Az]

40. Frustration, Terror, and the PostModern world

The reason so many support the assault on Iraq has to do with a multitude of issues. Not all of them are plain to see.

We live in a complex society. Often far more complex than people would like it to be. With numerous cultures and belief systems all vying for the same social space there are conflicts. But our pluralstic society is held together by a PostModern sensibility that no one can insist that they are right and another person is wrong in matters of cultural values. The hope of postmodernism was that it would enable communication between the various cultures. And to some extent this has taken place. But the long term effet has been to isolate and chill such discussion. It becomes too complex to deal with all the nuances of intercultural dialog for most to partake. Thus the bulk of the people simply slide into their own selfcreated ghetoes.

When you wish to have conflict you must first divide the people into camps. We have the camps. Each pool of selfimposed isolationists fester and brood over the faults and flaws of the other camps. The inability to force their views upon the nation are blamed on the actions of the liberals who endorse and support the attempt to maintain cultural pluralism. Thus attempts to build upon this pluralistic system is seen as futile because it builds upon a flawed society in their opinion. Thus the rage against liberals and pluralism is increased.

This general sense of frustration has sat simmering for some time now. The flames stoked by the NeoCons and their attacks. And then 9/11 happened. This gave their frustration a real target. It channeled all the angst, anger, and anxiety into hatred. The mob had been handed their first torch and they quickly found their pitchforks. We quickly squashed Afghanastan. They were never a challenge. The mob was not satisfied because it did not answer their real issue which was the complexity of living in a pluralistic society. Thus those that would use their anger for power lured them on to Iraq. The mob gladdly went along. Justification was simply for the liberals that they opposed any way. It was never necissary for the mob.

[bunnyhop]

44. All republicans are psychopaths and love killing

They love guns and cars and executions and of course wars.