Moderate Democrats?

[BradCKY]

I feel alone here on DU (except for a few) yes I am not on the far left, and no I don't buy into conspiracy theories easily. However I ask those of you who blame us for making the board shift to the "right" to accept us and realize that we bring a healthy debate among the left.

All who feel like me, or those who don't please respond.

[Brian_Expat]

1. I personally thank moderates like Zell Miller and Sam Nunn

They moderate the debate and introduce new concepts into our party, like the notion that Democrats should endorse George W. Bush for president. Thank goodness for their strong and principled voices in our party!

[BradCKY]

3. WAIT`

I HATE Zell Miller, I just mean those that are much closer to the center and no I DON'T endorse BUSH.

[seabeyond]

4. so brian

you are saying you dont want the two of us voting for kerry

i guess that is one way to do it

[Brian_Expat]

8. Well, Kerry IS an ultra-liberal. . .

. . . but still far too conservative for me. I am a communist anarchist who supports the collapse and evaporation of democracy, common decency, and the bedrock institutions of American liberty. In other words, I am a Howard Dean supporter. FEAR ME!

[seabeyond]

10. that would make you feel good

for someone to fear you huh. well, into a real giggle here dude. wink

[Brian_Expat]

15. Hey, you're not supposed to giggle and wink

Until I pinch you. Sheesh.

[Piperay]

11. I wouldn't exactly call

those two MODERATE Democrats, they are far right and not really Democrats at all.

[bushwakker]

14. Don't tar moderate Dems with the Zell Miller label

Miller is at the end of his run and has decided to throw in his lot with the GOP. The only reason he doesn't switch is that the media wouldn't pay attention to him if he was just another GOP right winger. He is a true DINO - a despicable turncoat. They used to call him Zig Zag Zell in GA. A guy like Joe Lieberman is a moderate Democrat (what used to be called a Scoop Jackson Dem), somewhat hawkish foreign policy, fiscally moderate, pretty liberal on social issues. I'm not a fan of Lieberman's (for various reasons, mostly political not policy oriented) but there is plenty of room for him in the Democratic Party.

[Crunchy Frog]

40. I don't know about the politics of

Scoop Jackson himself, but he did pretty much spawn the entire neocon movement. A number of the most prominent neocons including Richard Perle, started out as Scoop Jackson Democrats.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brian_Expat]

5. Well imagine that. . . a freeper invasion!

Never seen one of those before. :eyes:

[Maeve]

9. And one who never heard of snopes.com

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

[mhr]

6. What Healthy Debate, If You Support The DLC Then You Are Not A Dem

Plain and Simple!

[BradCKY]

7. I am no republican

Just because I am not as far as left as many I am definitely not right-wing.

[bushwakker]

17. Plenty of room for moderates in the Democratic Party

This board is not representive of the party - it is much more to the left and infested with Greens who will vote Nader in the fall. If you are a moderate then the Democratic Party has a place for you. There is no room for moderates in the current GOP.

[Brian_Expat]

20. I always got in trouble when I was a little boy

For similar reasons -- the meals mom served for dinner were infested with greens too! Collard greens, spinach, green beans. I couldn't eat them all! Does that make me a moderate?

[bushwakker]

27. I can't stomach the Greens*

[Brian_Expat]

29. But they're good for you!

Loaded with fibre and vitamins, and oh so fun to munch on.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

31. I agree with that.

The GOP has moved well to the right.

[Redneck Socialist]

46. "infested with Greens..." you make it sound so dirty

"Quick honey get the Raid! We have an infestation of Greens, aaaahhh!" :P

[RapidCreek]

36. You're not? Wow, what a relief!

You leave me a bit confused however.....What exactly is the difference between a moderate Democrat and a moderate Republican?

I eagerly await your clarification! Please elaborate as much as humanly possible. This is your opportunity to set yourself apart from that which you claim not to be.

RC

[leyton]

38. I don't think there is much difference.

They're pretty close at times.

I'm a moderate Democrat, and I'll readily admit that two or three issues, or a Democratic president who was corrupt like Bush is now, would make me start voting for some of the more palatable Republicans (the McCain types, the Colin Powell types).

[RapidCreek]

39. What isseus?

Why do you call yourself a Democrat? What purpose does it serve? If you agree with a Republican agenda why not ally yourself with the party in power?

RC

[leyton]

43. They are issues where Dems currently are right, so to speak.

Budgetary stuff. I'm young, I predict that debt will eventually cripple this government if something is not done about it. The one policy-related thing I remember from the Clinton administration was that he balanced the budget, and even then, before I knew anything about politics, I was glad.

And foreign policy. I'm somewhere between the neoconservatism of guys like Rumsfeld and the dovishness of guys like Kucinich (I hope that doesn't come off nasty, it's not supposed to). I believe it is justified to topple dictators like Saddam, but better if we did it with international support and without false pretenses like WMD-related-inklings.

I guess my point is that I'm the moderate democrat of the sort that, if faced with a particularly unpalatable Democrat (someone who was either way to the left of me or an extremely opportunistic politician) and a particularly palatable Republican (someone who was honorable and held moderate positions like those above), I'd vote Republican. Otherwise, I'm sticking with the Democrats.

[BradCKY]

55. The difference

Well a moderate democrat like myself is a bit more fiscally conservative but socially liberal. A "moderate" republican is just shy of being a neocon but nowadays seems to enjoy spending like crazy, and leaning much more socially conservative.

[wyldwolf]

44. bwahahahahaha!

So funny and naive at the same time!

[QC]

49. So who appointed you to be the arbiter of who is and is not a Dem?

Did you have to pass an exam for that job? What was the interview like? How well does it pay?

[MissMarple]

12. I've been called a Republican. Ha!

I tend to sound a bit schoolmarmish, I think rules should be enforced and there is no free lunch.
There is an article in The Oregonian posted here on the 26th by another DUer. It is called "Credo of a Conservative" and I recommend you read it. It's great.

www.oregonlive.com/commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1077800698227

I don't know if that's right. The piece is by Mark Oberzil and was published Feb 26th. I'll see if I can find the right link.

There you go:

http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/editorial/1077800698227780.xml

[seabeyond]

13. sounding real close to what i hear baptist say

we are not all inclusive, it is our thinking or you dont belong.

[Dob Bole]

48. DLC seems pretty pragmatic to me...

Their political research always seems to be very good. I just differ on some economic issues.

[coloradodem2005]

16. I am a big tent guy myself.

While I would say I am on the left, I like moderates. As long as they don't compromise themselves to the right-wing agenda.

I like Clinton, but I think he did compromise himself on some things. Such as NAFTA, the Telocommunications Act and the DMCA.

[Brian_Expat]

18. The last time I saw a big tent, I realized. . .

. . . that it was really Rush Limbaugh's lunch bag. Yikes!

[MissMarple]

24. The principled center is what keeps the wings from being flung out into

space. And communist/anarchists aren't liberals. And Howard Dean is my kind of liberal.

[Sean Reynolds]

19. I think this forum should be open to all left of center ideologies.

I've been here since this place opened and I haven't seen such a major rift like this ever. The problem is, people can't respect opinion here. While you've felt you're alone because you are moderate, I've felt alone because I'm too far to the left. I don't know HOW many times I've been attacked because of my beliefs. Gasp, and of places HERE on a liberal message board.

This place WASN'T just for Democrats. It was for ALL liberals, whether they were Green, communist, socialist, etc. Sadly it isn't like that any more.

[Brian_Expat]

22. Good word, Sean!

For a minute there, I thought our Soviet-funded hegemony on the board was threatened. Phew!

[Sean Reynolds]

25. USSR4LIFE!

;-)

[slinkerwink]

32. good point----how can a moderate DLC Dem be a "progressive?"

this board is a progressive board....

[seabeyond]

33. thank you sean

i am going to especially listen to what you have to say.

[Frances]

21. I am a practical person

I do not see my choice as being between Kucinich (a good man) and Bush. (But I am glad Kucinich is a part of the debates and can get a hearing for his ideas. The same for Sharpton.)

I do not think I have a choice between Nader and Bush.

I think I have a choice between either Kerry or Edwards and Bush.

[Zynx]

23. I'm somewhat of a maverick with very conservative positions on somethings.

I am not a rabid environmentalist, I am opposed to state control of industry except transportation where I am open to the idea, I am pro-gun, I am morally opposed to abortion though I support Roe v. Wade as a matter of policy, and I am very fiscally conservative. However, I do not like the DLC for selling us out to the big corporations.

[BradCKY]

58. I don't either

I don't like the selling out to big corporations either.

I just happen to agree with many of the other ideas that the DLC has.

[mot78]

26. Don't worry only a minority of DUers believe in conspiracies

However, most of the anger towards the DLC is stemmed by their recently electorial failures (2000, 2002) and the fact that they've let their party base wither on the grape-vine while Moderate Republicans have made an effort to work with their base.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

28. are you from Kentucky?

just wondering based on your handle.

There are some good moderate Dems in KY. Ben Chandler is one.

[BradCKY]

30. Yup

Grew up in Louisville, now living in Chicago for college, and I am GLAD Chandler has a congressional seat.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

35. I used to live in Valley Station...KY Politics.

..but am a native Chicagoan.

Back in my day the Democrats had some good folks in Kentucky politics. Probably still do.

The current mayor or Louisville, Jerry Abramson, is a good moderate Dem, too.

[Renew Deal]

34. I feel like you sometimes.

I consider myself moderate though I am not sure if I really am. I am left of center. I am OK with the death penalty, but I don't mid reviews and restrictions. I want open trade, but I think we should use it to our advantage. I want to help business if they are willing to help keep jobs here. I do not have a rpoblem with using our military if needed. ETC.. There is plenty of room for you here. BTW, Zell is not a moderate. He is actually a republican.

[Turkw]

37. I thought I was a moderate after coming here, then I went to the political

compass web site, took the quiz, and the results put me comfortably in the left, libertarian zone. I'm just not ultra liberal. Though two of the questions I could have answered the other way except I highly disliked the terms used. (one example was about women becoming mothers and their primary rolls and used the term homemaker, if it had been parent, I would have chosen the other way.)

[_Jumper_]

41. We need moderates

First, though, believing in conspiracies has nothing to do with a person's location on the political spectrum.

We need to realize that America is not a liberal nation. If we want to improve things we have to do it incrementally like Bill Clinton and the DLC did in the 1990's. Without moderates the conservatives would have a veto-proof majority in Congress and control the White House forever.

[slinkerwink]

45. yes, but the moderates/centrists in the Dem party are ignoring the left

[_Jumper_]

51. I agree

That is a major problem. That cost us the election in 2000 and may cost us even more dearly in 2004. Can you imagine what Bush will do in a second-term as a lameduck? :scared: :nuke:

[ulysses]

47. I'll agree with you that we need moderates.

And much agreed that conspiracy belief has nothing to do with placement in the political spectrum. Thank you.

Still, I would strongly question the DLC approach in terms of improving things, especially in the face of a neocon assault on the nation. Incrementalism makes for a difficult remedy to, essentially, a coup, even when insisted upon.

[_Jumper_]

52. Foreign policy

I support drastic change there but we need to be incremental in the economic and social arena. Going for a half a loaf and getting it is better than going for an unattainable full loaf and ending up with nothing, in my opinion.

[ulysses]

42. are you a moderate?

The DLC isn't in my book. Maybe you are.

[blondeatlast]

50. You did notice the "Underground" part of the name, I assume?

Yes, you are certainly welcome, but don't expect most of us to greet you with open arms as a revelation. Most of us are considerably leftist.

It's our party, and you are more than welcome to contribute. But if you don't like what you hear, feel free to find another party more to your liking.

Edit: Party as in social gathering of people with some common bond, friendship politics, work, etc.; not POLITICAL party.

[BradCKY]

56. Yes but we all have one thing in common

Voting Bush out of office, I voted for Gore in 2000 and well gladly vote for the dem nominee again.

[cmayer]

53. I'll put my hand up as a passionate moderate

I'm pretty new here, but I've sure found what I've read interesting. Some of it's cool, some of it's wacky, and some of it's right on the mark.

Maybe there'll be some mud thrown, and I'll measure it for what it is. If it stings, maybe I need to rethink. If it stinks, maybe I need to point that out.

I've noticed that the tenor of the conversation is decidedly left. Hopefully there's room for other viewpoints.

[mgarretson]

54. Welcome to DU, cmayer!!

Welcome to DU, cmayer and thanks for posting! :hi:

Best,

[OhioStateProgressive]

57. I personally believe...

...that moderates should be ousted from the party and forced to either be Republicans (which they really are), or make their own party.

[BradCKY]

59. ahhh yes

Great way to try and isolate us, we are also a key voting base just as those on the farther left.

[OhioStateProgressive]

60. you know what?

I can say the exact same thing about how us leftists are treated. We get constant purge threats around here. I think it is appropriate for other factions to feel this disdain as well.

[Zynx]

61. We would never win if we did that.

[Finch]

62. Not alone...

A couple of days ago I posted a thread similar to this... I'm on a level with Lieberman on the social side of the issues while on the economic issues I'm proably somewhere between Edwards and Gephardt... so I'm just a populist southern Dem really.. i should run for congress some time!.. but neither party could survive by being a narrow tent... the Dem's need every one from the right lead by Breaux and Lieberman, the center with the likes of Kerry, Edwards, Hillary Clinton and Bill Richardson, the left Feingold and Wellstone and the more radically left wing such as Kucinich, in order to win just as the Republicans would need everyone from the "Jesse Helms es" to the Olympia Snowe's to win and from my perspective the Republican coalition seems much more difficult to hold to together...

[blondeatlast]

70. Harsh. I don't want them out (DK supporter here), but I don't

care to hear whining that we are limiting their free speech on DU. I'm dead sick of that crap.

[seabeyond]

72. no one can limit me

but me,. lol lol

[Q]

63. It's interesting....

...that you put 'far left' and 'conspiracy theories' in the same sentence. If there is one thing you can count on from the 'centrists'...it's the intimation that the left is somehow lost in conspiracy theories.

- I don't see a 'healthy' debate at all. Moderation is a very dangerous thing during a time when our government is controlled by extremists who believe moderation is a weakness.

[BradCKY]

64. The far right is into conspiracy theories

To them it seems like everything that happens in this presidential race they think is the secret doings of the Clintons, for example the downfall of Howard Dean.

[Q]

65. But it was YOU that equated...

...the 'far-left' with conspiracy theories. That is the stereotypical language of the right.

- Is it a 'conspiracy theory' to ask questions and not automatically accept the official version of events? Help us out here. What's the association between the far left and conspiracies?

[BradCKY]

66. The reason I said that

Its because I see many many people on here espousing beliefs about Bush being behind 9/11. I view that as a conspiracy theory, or they say Paul Wellstone was intentionally murdered, another conspiracy theory. Trust me both the left and right are just as guilty.

The reason they are conspiracy theories to me is that I see only "circumstantial" evidence to link either one.

[Q]

68. Americans are found guilty on 'circumstantial evidence'...

...every single day in this country. But instead of asking if Bush* was 'behind' 9-11...ask yourself why he and Cheney have obstructed every attempt to investigate that fateful day? THAT's not a conspiracy theory...it's fact that they're trying to avoid any semblence of accountability.

[BradCKY]

69. Maybe

They don't want people to know how disorganized and unprepared they were for that kind of attack, because it would show them asleep at the wheel. Which probably would hurt Bush's re-election, thats my take on it.

Remember this was not the first attack on the World Trade Center. Terrorists also tried to blow up the WTC in 1994 using explosives hidden in a truck.

[Q]

71. I can't argue with that type of naivete...

...so I won't bother with getting into any kind of detailed debate. But saying that they were simply 'disorganized and unprepared' doesn't answer any of the questions we've been asking since 9-11.

- This is why 'moderation' is so dangerous to our country. It's really nothing more than fear in the face of tyranny.

[Beloved Citizen]

67. Democratic Party future may be centrist

Certainly seems to be a lot easier to win the votes of moderate independents and Republicans these days than it does the Nader/Deanie-Left nexus.

A pragmatic party positioned between the 2 ideological extremes might be the way to go. With the Neo-Cons on the right, and the equally tiresome Greens on the left, the Democratic party could be the home to that great centrist America out there that has grown pretty fed up with ideologically driven morality plays and guilt trips.