How do Dayton Hudson (Target) and Wal-Mart compare?

[Catch22Dem]

We really only have two options for retail chains around here. It's either Target or Wal-Mart. Option 3 is run all over town looking for smaller "mom & pop" stores. We support them when we can, but...

I used to work at Target when I was in high school. Met my wife there too ;)

[brainshrub]

1. Here's my take:

Ideally, boycott them both. But if that's not feasible, then it's okay to shop at Target.

Under no circumstances should you shop at Wal-Mart. Once those bastards are brought under control, we can start working on the others.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. How Do You Propose To Bring Wal Mart Under Control?

Just curious

[brainshrub]

6. The way all corporations are brought under control:

Boycotts, Unions and Government Regulation.

Those are powerful tools, we simply need to courage & political will to use them.

[1monster]

13. Dream on...

I live in a town where we have nothing but large corporate owned chains.

Walmart, Target, Eckerds, Walgreens, Albertson, Winn Dixie, Publix, almost ALL clothing stores (the ones that are not chains are located in the heart of the tourist district and are very over priced)...

I shop at Walmart because I cannot afford to buy groceries at the other big grocery chains. I used to shop at Albertsons (15 years worth) until they merged with another chain and prices shot up unbelieveably... Fifty cents to a dollar on each and every item. And on some necessities (feminine products or men's birth control methods, for example) the price is twice as much and more at the other stores.

My husband makes decent money for the area and I make about half as much as he makes, and my step son contributes and we still are struggling...

And those other big chains don't pay much better than Walmart. They may start a person out at a higher wage, BUT they keep employees to part-time status. Ergo, they have no benefits and make less in the long run.

[brainshrub]

15. You have fallen for the propaganda

I also live in a community with lots of chains... but when I bought my house & I needed to furnish it, not one single item was purchased at a Wal-Mart.
I only buy clothes second-hand. Items like underwear, socks and shoes are bought new on-line from union shops. (http://www.justiceclothing.com/thereis/justice?mv_pc=gaw)

I shop at garage sales in the spring and summer and I helped support a food Co-Op.

Nothing I did you couldn't do... and it doesn't take that much effort. All you need to do is think for a few minutes before you get an impulse to buy something.

The most important step I took in consumer activism was to throw out my television. Get rid of it...televisions are a form of heightened social control. Don't use the excuse "Oh, I only watch an hour or two a week & I like the VCR." (I've been TV free since 1995.)

You can do it! If you think you can't, the bastards control you...whether you want to admit it or not.

[Zookeeper]

19. I had never even entered a Target or Walmart until..

I had kids! By child #3, I gave up completely on cloth diapers. I love to find bargains at thrift stores and such, but sometimes if there is a certain thing you need, you buy it where you can find it. (School supplies for instance. And even the most liberal kids are usually not too happy with second hand clothes by the time they hit middle school!)

By the way, I HATE Walmart! I've only shopped there 2 or 3 times and just decided on my own to boycott them a few years ago. They are shamelessly anti-Union and I have seen no indication that they give back to the community in any way.

[1monster]

23. Oh? You buy your food and perscriptions at yard sales and

second hand shops?

I don't watch television at all. Too incredibly boring.

The last CD I bought was at an Indian Pow Wow... one I could not have found at the local music store (yes, we do have an independent music store, the chain pulled out...one for the little guy).

I have been known to buy some clothing for myself and my son at thrift shops, and don't really spend that much on clothing throughout the year.

I'm not happy that Walmart put some of the store that I would be shopping in out of business, but I'm darned if I have the time to drive fifty miles north to the big city to find mom n pop stores to support. Besides, my fourteen year old vehicle with over 146,000 miles on it might not make it back.

[Catch22Dem]

25. Sorry, I'm a movie junkie

And my TV isn't going anywhere. :evilgrin:

[cprise]

32. Excellent link! Here is another -

SweatX
http://www.sweatx.net/


There is also a union-brand search at:
http://www.unionlabel.org/do_buy.asp

[Jane Austin]

31. Walmart does more than cheat its employees!

Many people are not aware of other reasons not to support 
Walmart.  They not only squeeze their employees for every
penny, but they squeeze their suppliers, too.  Setting their
own  prices, and deciding when or if to pay.  

I'm a retailer, too, and let me tell you, WE don't get to set
our own terms or prices!

Research has also shown  that  Walmart employees are huge
users of  public health services at the taxpayer's expense
because Walmart not only makes it hard to qualify for and
afford their health insurance, but they actually promote the
use of public health services to their employees.

Meanwhile, check into the tax rebates they get from cities for
 locating there, and then, once the time period for the tax
incentives runs out . . . woops!  Walmart closes up and moves
to another locale . . . and gets new tax incentives.

There's so, so much more, but if you do have to shop at
Walmart, please try to do it as little as poxxible, and use
food co-ops, and sales at other stores when you can.

Walmart is costing you in lots of ways you may not be aware
of, and the money you save on your groceries will be taken
from you in taxes to support their other endevors.

As they noted on a series on Marketplace last year., Walmart
is the # 1 film developer, grocer, optician, dog food seller 
(and on and on)  in the country, and they have caused a
sea-change in the way business is done in this country.

[dusty64]

2. Doesn't Senator Dayton

have a stake in the Dayton Hudson chain?

[Zookeeper]

16. I don't think he still has a direct connection..

The family's wealth came from the stores (now called Marshall Fields), but I don't think he has anything to do with running them or gaining any direct profit.

[blondeatlast]

26. I understand that the Dayton's are stilll quite active in the business,

although it has become Target, Inc.

I worked at a DH store in the 80s and while it was pretty much typical retail practice, they care about their employees. Pay was a bit better and benefits were available even to PT personnel.

[dflprincess]

28. Actually, the whole corporation

including Marshall Fields is now under the Target Corporation umbrella. I've heard that no member of the Dayton family is active in the corporation anymore though I imagine they all still have a stake in it.

Wages for the people who work in Target stores aren't the greatest, but they do get benefits and Target Corp does donate a lot of money back into the communties where their stores are located. That practice was started by members of the Dayton family when they were still running the company.

Which leads to a regional question - how many of my fellow Minnesotans still call Marshall Fields "Daytons"? I know I keep making the slip. (There was a time in Minnesota where you could hardly consider yourself a citizen of the state if you didn't have a Dayton's card.)

[Zookeeper]

29. I'm not a native Minnesotan but....

I've lived here long enough to be used to saying "Dayton's." I don't feel particularly motivated to change that habit. When my mom visited from Florida and I mentioned Marshall Fields, she kept thinking I was talking about "Marshall's," the discount store (like TJ Maxx).

[SaveElmer]

3. Target is vastly superior

In both quality of sevice, and willingness to work with communities rather than trying to roll over them. Not to say Target has a perfect record, but if it's a choice between the two...it is no contest.

[Touchdown]

5. One's red, the other's blue.

One has decent stuff, the other crap.
One has clean aisles, the other's cluttered.
One has fully paid employees (although not enough), and the other forces work after clocking out.
One is the highest rated company giniving to charities last year, the other says they give to the community by offering "low prices".
This one is deleted.
EDIT:Adding one more...One is anti-union...the other is union PARANOID!

Take a wild guess which one is which.:crazy:

[brainshrub]

7. That "inbred trash"

supports this whole economy. They are the working poor, and they deserve our respect.

In my opinion, calling uneducated, working-poor people "trash" is akin to calling black people the N word.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. That Was Harsh

Why dis the working poor...

[ikojo]

27. AMEN brainshrub

There definitely is a class bias in activist politics (not just on DU but among many white activists, including environmentalists). People who would NEVER EVER utter the "N" word do not hesitate to use the following:

--trailer trash
--white trash
--hillbilly (a euphemism IMHO for white trash)

I guess the above people's crime is being born poor and white, because we all know white people aren't supposed to be poor and if they are then it's their fault for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and getting that Ivy League education <sarcasm off.>

I grew up in a poor family (mom never made more than $5.00 per hour when I was growing up) and I know what it is to be called white trash.

[Zookeeper]

30. You're right!

Sometimes my kids come home from school with some "hillbilly" joke or accent and I always point out to them how offensive that is and that poor, white southerners are the only group of people that it's still somehow acceptable to make fun of.

[asthmaticeog]

8. You lost me

with that "inbred trash" remark. I can't decide if it's more racist or more classist, but I suppose that's ultimately a scholastic distinction; either way, it's bigoted.

[Touchdown]

10. Alright. I take it back.

How about I rephrase that into those patriotic Americans, who are doing their wartime duty by shopping, and who only look at their own interests when their shopping for anything with only the absolute lowest price they can get without regard to the consequences of the hidden costs such as lower than average wages, and higher than average public subsidies, and end up going to one place...the Blue one.

Better?

I'll delete the other.

[brainshrub]

12. Thank you.

I know you aren't a classist.
I remember using the phrase "That is so gay" until a homosexual friend pointed out to me that it was insulting to him.

We Dems & Libs should remember what Newt Gingrich taught the conservatives: Words have meanings.

[Touchdown]

14. Yeah, that insults me too.

Being gay and all. I just got carried away with my words, because the last time I was in one (which was 5 years ago) some orange juice cans in her hair, woman with a mumu and a moustache ran over my foot with her cart...after I had an ingrown toenail just taken out days before.

She just looked back at me, wondered why my face was so red, and moved on. I guess I was lucky...I could've been trampled on for a $30 DVD player, like last X-Mas.

[hyphenate]

11. Walmart

Is not perfect, I know, but since I'm among the unemployed population that was just shafted again without the second extension on unemployment, I have very, very little money, and Walmart offers one thing that Target does not: if I see something that is currently out of my pocketbook range, I can put it on layaway. Target has never, and will likely never, offered layaways. I may be getting something that helps keep someone from earning a higher wage, but since I'm currently not earning ANY wage, it's about what I can afford. And no--I don't consider myself trash. I'm educated, held good jobs until the Bush economy fucked a lot of us.

I do shop a lot at Target, but there is no way I can buy some things there that I would need to pay large amounts for.

[asthmaticeog]

17. No need to explain.

Boycotts are mostly a tactic for people who have options. If someone's in an area where Wal-Mart is the only retail store, or is simply too broke to afford to shop anywhere else, no-one should begrudge them their decision to shop there. I shopped there once in awhile when I was out of work and was having an especially tight week.

The problem is when people who can afford to shop indie or union go to WM anyway to save themselves a couple of bucks. Plus it really burns my ass that if not for WM's poverty-CAUSING policies, far fewer people would need to avail themselves of that last resort. It's like they're creating their own market niche by causing poverty then offering the poor somewhere to save a little more. "Sorry you lost your store because of us, Mr. Small Business Owner Guy, but now that you're flatass broke, take a look at OUR fabulous low prices!"

[brainshrub]

21. Not do dis Hyphenate or you

but I don't buy that "no options" argument.

Maybe if Wal-Mart were the only source for emergency medical care you would have a point... but there are too many options available regardless of location not to boycott Wal-Mart. It's not nearly as difficult as people think if you just put a modicum of effort into it.

I was camping one night in Kitty Hawk, NC and I forgot my pillow back home. I HATE sleeping without a pillow and the only store open was a Wal-Mart. At first I thought to myself: "Well, it's either spend a night tossing & turning without sleep or just buy the damn pillow."

But as I walked into the store I realized that I was putting my own short-term comfort ahead of human rights, Labor Unions and social justice. Was my comfort that night worth putting a local vendor out of business? Was my need for sleep so great that it trumped the rights of slave laborers in China?

I went back to my campsite without a pillow, but I slept like a baby.

[asthmaticeog]

22. Good on you!

I agree that you made the right choice - but again, the word "choice" comes into play. Yours was a choice to forego a pillow for one night, which is a pretty trivial choice in the big picture. There ARE places in America where Wal Mart is literally the only source for consumer goods - sometimes even including groceries (I'd hate to see the lines in those places).

[ButterflyBlood]

18. Target

at least Target aren't owned by arch-conservative fundies.

[Zookeeper]

20. Target gives some money back to the community...

If you use a Target charge card, they will donate a percentage of the sale to the school of your choice. It isn't a very large percentage, but it's more than I'm aware of Walmart ever doing!

Generally, the larger organization (Dayton/Hudson/Marshall Field) does a pretty good job of supporting the Arts and a variety of charities.

[Deja Q]

24. I can't get a job at either place.

But I prefer target; they give something back to the community. Not much, but it's still infinitely more than what wal-mart gives (zilch).