*'s Presidency may be the best thing that happened to grassroots liberals

[mot78]

I know we hate and despise * for he's done. But his Presidency has jump-started a liberal grassroots was had been stagnant since 1994, when the Repugs took over Congress and the DLC attacked our base in reaction. For example, until sites like DU and Buzzflash came along, Conservatives had a monoply on online politics. We're also going to break their talk radio monoply, and eventually their think tank monoply. Dean's impending PAC is another example of what we've accomplished. If Gore had gotten elected, there probably would still be Conservative internet dominence, and the milquetoast leadership would leave our base to stagnate and become consumed by the Greens.

[BigDaddyLove]

1. I couldn't agree more......

what's more, I think that one of the reasons that so many people voted for Bush in 2000 was because they forgot what it was like to actually have a Republican in office; they have now had four years of it and I believe we'll find that this year Americans will loudly say 'Enough is Enough".

[IronLionZion]

3. Shabbat Shalom motherfuckers!

I agree that he has definitely energized people. But I still wish for a progressive administration. Let's kick some ass this November! It looks like Kerry or Edwards will be more progressive than Clinton.

[mot78]

5. They wil be more Progressive

While they are accused of being DLC here, because of a more energized base, I doub they pander to a Repug Congress as often. Still, they'll still make decisions we won't like if either them are elected, because they will face a hostile Congress.

[IronLionZion]

11. Then lets take back Congress

the Senate is doable. We'll get that first then the House. Then Governors and local elections. Get those right-wing fanatics out of here!

[seabeyond]

2. yyyaaaaaa

i say. hm..........interesting

[Eric J in MN]

4. 2002 is the problem with this theory.

The Republicans re-took the Senate in 2002.

If Bush is having a positive effect on liberals, why is that?

[mot78]

6. The positive effect is gradual

And it really didn't start to kick up until Dean stimulated it. The losses 2002 were exaggered IMO.

[BillZBubb]

10. Good point.

But, 2002 may have been the death knell for the DLC because their strategy was used by Democrats in that campaign. And it was too close to 9-11-2001, Everyone was clinging as closely to Bush* as possible to seem tough on terror. It was a huge mistake, as Cleland and others found out. The Democrats ran as Repug Lite and got the shit kicked out of themselves.

Now, Democrats are being Democrats and actually standing up to the bastards and pointing out how BushCo is ruining the country. I think the Democratic wing of the Democratic party is now in the forefront. The worm has definitely turned.

[Eric J in MN]

7. I don't think there was a problem of conservatives dominating the internet

I don't think there was a problem of conservatives dominating the internet before 2000.

[mot78]

8. There were liberal sites, but they weren't as active or as large

Conservative sites had more traffic, and in many still do. I remember reading somewhere they did more with the internet in 2000 than we did. Are there any major liberal message board other than DU?

[coloradodem2005]

9. Ironically, you are probably right.

Had it not been for Bush, things like DU, moveon.org, truemajority.org and people like Howard Dean would not have come out of the woodwork to re-teach us what it is to be a Democrat. It is a wierd phenomenon but sometimes you have to go through hell to get to heaven.

[mot78]

12. This may be over the top as an analogy but

When Moses led the Jews out of Egypt (getting out of election 2000) and into the desert for 40 years, they had to find the promised land (getting rid of * stopping the RW monoplies). While in the desert, they established things like the 10 Commandments and the foundation of their civil society (building our grassroots). They eventually made it to Israel (getting back in power and ousting *)

[seabeyond]

17. democrats got lazy

and disgusted. there was a reason our nation has grabbed to religious the last decade, and going to republican party. 60's. 70's then the me generation of the 80's took people in the 90's to seeing how kids werent getting what they needed, parents werent doing their job, schools aer horrible with the pc agenda inserted. words like integrity, honesty, were dismissed as the loser you. we have become a nation of i deserve, whats in it for me.

if we just point the finger to the right and call names, and point all their flaws, and the right just points finger and calls name. we will be no better off.

we have to be better than this

it is like i dont know how many times i have heard someone address the janet jackson thing as people making a big deal over a boob. yet it doesnt matter how many times they are told it wasnt just the boob, that was it, the final straw when people finally started yelling they had had enough. yet so easy to dismiss their complaints to take it to the prudity of a boob. and no one is willing to listen and explore what the real issue may be.

cause we are lazy, dont want to bother, dont want compromise or think of others?

the gun issue. i dont like guns, never owned guns never held one, dont like. yet we want to ban them. cause of the people that are not responsible with them, we want to ban them from everyone. something like that doesnt work. there are people that have a connection with guns, and you may not understand it, yet i have put in the effort to.

pot. cause there are people that abuse drugs a small percentage that screw up their lives with pot? i dont get, the majority that smoke it live responsible law abiding, lol lol almost yet cause we fear it so, we want it illegal

both sides are creating this. and i think the democrats are more open minded to be able to show the way on this.

[union_maid]

13. It's an ill wind

They say if you energize your base, you energize the other side's base as well. That cuts both ways, but this time it's working in our favor. What's even better for us this time is that the true Republican base in 2004 isn't really the Religious Right. They're just being thrown an occasional bone so that they'll continue to react when stimulated by one of the Repubs fake issues..gay marriage being the fake issue du jour. It was abortion up to now. The real base is the corporatocracy. That is without a doubt all the real Republicans care about these days and I do think that the American public is beginning to wake up to that reality at last. You can't really do shit without a good portion of the country behind you. The Democrats' real sin was to lose the ability to communicate with the people. They're finding their voice again, and the administration is helping by being..yes..real, true conservative idiots.

Edited to add that although this is very good longterm and maybe worth a lot of pain, things like the fact that a lot of poor and disabled people are about to lose their Section 8 housing makes it a very steep price to pay. I really hope that the lesson sticks for a while this time around.

[mot78]

14. True

However, I warn DUers that this rebuilding of our base won't happen overnight, or even within five years (barring something big causes a political realignment in our favor). The modern Conservative movement took some 30+ years to get where it is today.

[knight_of_the_star]

16. We can do it faster though

It took the conservatives that long because they, unlike us, didn't have the advantages of the information superhighway. Consider this: in the months leading up to the war in Iraq, anti-war protests that equalled or exceeded those that were conducted at the height of the Vietnam anti-war movement were organized and up to that level in a matter of MONTHS, not years. We have the advantage now of being able to mobilize faster than they ever could while they were building up. While we may not be as potent as they became by '94 in November, we will be close, and it won't be a far leap from there to reach how far they got. We can mobilize faster, more efficiently, cheaper, and smarter than they could when they were getting up and running. We won't be a dominating force in just under a year, but we will be there in far less time than it took them because our message is aimed at the PEOPLE, and because we can disseminate information and form plans of action faster and on a larger scale NOW than you could even in the late 90s. It seems that technology will be the rallying cry of the new liberal majority.

[knight_of_the_star]

15. There is a catch to that though

There are more people out ther that are hurt by Bush then helped by him. That by itself makes any contest between the two grassroots groups biased in our favor.