anyone familiar with Marx PLEASE HELP

[historian]

Here is the prompt to an essay i have to write, and i have to agree or disagree with it.
In other words: IF there is a DETERMINISM of the transition from Capitalism
to Communism AT ALL, then it requires both STRUCTURES and AGENTS to change
in mutually reinforcing ways (i.e. it is not DETERMINISM only in the
STRUCTURAL component that eliminates AGENCY, as in THE FIRST POSITION
argues) -- therefore, STRUCTURE frames the development of AGENCY and AGENCY
frames the change in STRUCTURE.
I am supposed to agree or disagree with this - i think that an agreement is in order - the structure of a society determines the reaction of an agency (people) who then change the structure. I think Marx says that communism is inevtiable and its irrelevant what the people think.
thanks to whoever answers.

[lastknowngood]

1. Was that Groucho Chico Harpo Gumo or Zeppo?

n/t

[Kamika]

2. I like Groucho

He's so goddamn witty

[Mick Knox]

3. I gotta agree!

Groucho!

[historian]

4. that was a serious question!!!!!!

I really dont appreciate this type of idiocy when a serious question is asked

[Mick Knox]

6. so what...

its an open forum you posted in.. not a college marxist course forum..

and I still like groucho as my favorite marx..

[Kamika]

7. geez sorry

just poking some fun..

[distortionmarshall]

9. christ - don't apologize.....

j*ckass is trying to cheat on his/her homework... thus adding to the idiocy of americans.....

to the OP - go read marx yourself - think about it - decide for yourself - don't just take what commentators (here or published) say and regurgitate it - THINK!!!!

i know it's hard, but it's among the most worthwhile things you'll ever do....

[historian]

13. thank you for your comment

Let me ask you something since you are obviously made of superior material than i am. First im not an american so if you are trying to stereotype me you are sorely mistaken. Second, let me ask you how many languages do you speak(i speak 4), how often have you travelled and lived in other countries? I've travelled the world over and lived in 4 different countries so i believe i have more knowledge in my fingertips than you will acquire by sitting here giving unsoclicited and rude advice. Third, though this is none of your business, you'll notice that im not asking anyone to write this for me - i am merely asking someone's opinion to see if it concides with mine.
To quote you "THINK before you open your mouth" and you might avoid inserting your foot in it.

[Mick Knox]

16. Allow me to prostrate myself before you...

After that remarkable resume.. it is clear you are the higher power and myself as a lowly American who speak less that 4 languages, and has only lived in America, is the lesser person.

I sincerely and humbly apologize for my part in intruding into your maxist theory homework thread.

[historian]

17. if you are rude to someone

expect rudeness back.

[distortionmarshall]

20. wow..... what a biting response...

lol - you may have been better served, however, by using the time you spent reading marx.....

you certainly are right about one thing tho - americans don't have a monopoly on stupidity - thank you for exemplifying that fact for me...

good luck on your essay... lol

"unsolicited"? rofl

[Turbineguy]

5. That has to be

the most convoluted rationalization for "Honey, while you were sick upstairs, I was porking the Maid" I have ever heard.

Marx came up with these ideas because it beat getting a real job.

(I guess I would be classified as a "dis-agree-er")

I'm not sure that helps, but it was meant to.

[JanMichael]

8. I'm not an expert on Marx but AFAIK the idea is inevitable.

When it actually occurs is, of course, the hotly contested debate.

[Mattforclark]

10. Assumptions

"IF there is a DETERMINISM of the transition from Capitalism
to Communism AT ALL, then"

I assume that this means, "granted the assumption there is a DETERMINISM of the transition from Capitalism to Communism AT ALL" this conclusion follows.

Given an assumption chosen by someone, they can say that anything that they want logically follows. When you are fooling around with abstract theoretical ideas as Marx is, which are defined by the theorist, you can do literally anything. It is medieval theology.

You can't argue with it, you can only inquire as to what is being smoked.

[Viking12]

11. Read Marcuse

You'll find your answer in Herbert Marcuse's concept of negation in "Eros and Civilization." Marcuse argues that "structure" represses agency but cannot eliminate instinct. The id is the source of agency, i.e. liberation through the negation of unfreedom. If you take this route you'll definately impress your professor :)

[historian]

14. thank you

Never thought of straying from professors choice of books - definitely give it a try

[mike1963]

12. Okay, you are proposing this as a serious question. Here's the propositio

"IF there is a DETERMINISM of the transition from Capitalism
to Communism AT ALL, then it requires both STRUCTURES and AGENTS to change
in mutually reinforcing ways (i.e. it is not DETERMINISM only in the
STRUCTURAL component that eliminates AGENCY, as in THE FIRST POSITION
argues) -- therefore, STRUCTURE frames the development of AGENCY and AGENCY
frames the change in STRUCTURE."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To begin, this propositon is just babble, it doesn't represent any cogent sort of starting point. What the hell is 'determinism'? That implies something that cannot be altered (as in predestination.)

And the use of the terms 'structures' and 'agents' is nebulous at best - why not frame it in a reference more easily grasped, such as 'cause and effect'?

In any case, there's really no direction to a solution of this question. It boils down to what people want and/or what they're willing to accept, and the fact that there is no consensus.

The 'agency' provides the impetus for the determination, and the determinant creates (often retrospectively) the conditions for its own existance.

But what do I know, I'm only god...

[historian]

15. i know its babble

I spend half the time trying to understand what he is talking about - his ideas of requesting essays are, as you say, complete babble. Thanks anyway.

[BillZBubb]

18. Maybe it's late, but I think it's a good question.

Marx wrote that the transition from capitalism to communism was inevitable. It had to happen--ie, it was entirely deterministic. According to Marx, there was no way around that result.

For that to happen, the structure of capitalism would have to transform into the structure of communism. But since an economic system is more than just structure--it is made up of lots of individual human beings interacting--it requires those human beings to be involved in the transformation as well. They are the agents.

Therefore, if one agrees with Marx, something has to occur in the outlook and actions of people to begin the change in structure, which changes people's outlook and actions more, leading to more structural change, and so on, until voila! you've got communism. That's the mutually reinforcing effect. It's really an evolutionary change based on the Structure-><-Agent interaction and feedback.

[historian]

19. thank you

much appreciated - thats what i thought