Dubya has opened Pandora's Box!

[Brian_Expat]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-ligays0227,0,2763047.story?coll=ny-li-span-headlines

Group vows same-sex marriage march

Gay, lesbian couples will go to every town clerk next week to test state law on marriage

Hoping to force a court ruling opening the way for same-sex marriages in New York, gay and lesbian couples next week plan to march into the offices of every town clerk on Long Island and ask for marriage licenses, said the leader of the group organizing the effort.

None of this would have happened had Dubya not launched the Great Culture War.

[jansu]

1. All marriages are Civil Marriages!

Since we all have to get a State license to marry, no marriage is religious. The ceremony may be held in a church, but it could not be held without a State License.

What other license can they refuse to give based on sex or sexual orientation? Drivers license, hunting license?

edit for spelling

[orwell]

5. Civility

You got it jansu. The use of the term marriage enables to Cons to attach meaning that is inflamatory to a Cons worldview.

In other words, the classic wedge.

It is a civil rights issue.

O

[sadiesworld]

2. Not seeing this as particularly helpful to ousting *

[papau]

7. I agree - the 1968 protests actually elected Nixon

:-)

[John_H]

3. Contact Pelosi and Daschle to Demand a vote NOW

http://daschle.senate.gov/webform.html
[e-mail]

[damnyankee2601]

4. I think you're right.

Shrub has a good shot at getting logged in the history books right next to George Wallace and his famous "segergation forever" rant.

[banana republican]

6. Yes But Wallace Repented

shrub won't

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. If he did, we sure helped

Every gay marriage has certainly helped their cause. You know, I am wildly for this, but wish we had waited a few months till AFTER the election.

[Imajika]

9. It is really just amazing...

..how absolutely politically tone-deaf many, if not most, of the forum members here are.

"Gay, lesbian couples will go to every town clerk next week to test state law on marriage"

Do you have even the slightest idea how engraged the American public is going to be about this? Americans DO NOT support gay marriage. They do not want this issue forced on them. Americans are not ready to accept gay marriage. Forcing the issue will only result in a massive backlash and could just help elect Bush.

"None of this would have happened had Dubya not launched the Great Culture War."

Yes, your right. Did it ever occur to you that this is exactly what Rove wanted to happen?

People really need to stop living in a wishful thinking fantasyland. Realism is what is needed to properly analyze the political landscrape and recognize how Americans are likely to vote. Right now I am just not seeing much of that.

Imajika

[ex_jew]

10. And of course Rosa Parks enraged a good many people too !

What do you think will happen if multiple municipalities consent ? This has the effect of opening more holes in the dike (hee hee). If even one more office agrees, the news will have more pictures of attractive happy people, people who are in love, and that's a hard thing to get enraged about.

[bobbieinok]

16. Rosa Parks 1956 and then???????

...near riot at fall 1957 desegregation of Little Rock hi school - Eisenhower called out 1000 paratroopers

...riots at fall 1962 desegregation of U of MS law school - JFK calls up 10,000 sodiers to Oxford MS

...fire hoses and police dogs attack black children in 1963 attempt to register to vote in Birmingham AL

...Medgar Evers murdered in MS in 1963

...Birmingham black church blown up in fall 1963 (less than 4 weeks after MLK's I have a Dream speach at the March on Washington) and 4 black girls are killed

...Cheney, Swerner, Goodman murdered in Philadelphia MS during 1964 Mississippi Summer

...etc etc etc

...MLK murdered April 1968


The point: After Rosa Parks, there was more than a decade of massive civil unrest, beatings, murders over black civil rights. And many contend the battle is not won yet.

[kayell]

11. If people had followed your kind of "realism" during the last century

women would still not have the vote. Rosa Parks would have ridden in the back of bus the rest of her life. The Lovings would still be exiled from their home state for miscegenation. etc. etc.

Justice never comes from being patient and waiting for someone to "give" you your rights. My heros are the ones throughout history who stood up and fought for what is right.

[Beetwasher]

12. You're Totally Wrong

Most people get it and most people DO NOT support an amendment banning gay marriage.

Maybe everyone should've just shut up when blacks were kept as separate but equal too...

[jansu]

13. I beg to differ with you, the polls are already showing a turn around

in several states, in the people who oppose this issue. Most people, when you show them the truth about something, not the scary pictures of the out of the mainstream people, but the loving couples, with their families surrounding them, celebrating this marriage with joy and happiness, it is hard to see it in the terms of hate and bigotry which the right wing is painting pictures of so vividly!

Human Rights and the spirit of the human heart will always win out!

Now is the time to fight this fight. It is just another nail in the "wrongs" policies and positions! If we keep fighting them on all fronts, we will win! They will just look silly and frightening! No leadership, no uniting, no vision of what is possible!

[mondo joe]

14. Imagine Telling Southern Blacks in the 60's to Take 1 For the Team

I'd like you to understand thisd:

Gays have taken the back seat and have waited on equal civil rights for a long time. And there was never a good time for it, as far as the party was concerned.

Well here's my stance right now: If we get a candidate or a party that is opposed to equal rights for gays I might as well vote for Bush. Since you think people's civil rights are so disposable you shouldn't object to giving up your own.

[stopbush]

15. I'm sorry, but why on earth should gays accept such disgusting

discrimination for even one additional second?

We had a Civil War over slavery. Women were treated as second-class citizens for most of this country's history and denied the vote. Inter-racial marriage was even banned until the 1950s! bush has launched a culture war. Fuck him - and bring it on. We'll fight this one and WIN this one, just like we won all the other battles of the past FOR equality.

Carpe diem! bush and the RW bigots have thrown down the gauntlet. This is an issue that morally demands we fight for what is right. What? We're going to shirk the battle and slink away like cowards because a few loud-mouthed bigots and their bought-and-paid for push polls tell us "most Americans" don't want gay marriage?

Well then, fuck most Americans - they're also ignorant bigots. Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes.

BTW - I'm a straight guy, married with 2 kids. My FAMILY supports gay marriage. That's four of us. Throw in my MiL, and that makes five.

[greekspeak]

17. Chimp has started a pink triangle and rainbow flag revolution

He has made his bed, now he can lie in it. Whatever it is Rove and Bush and Cheney and the rest of the lot has up their sleeve is going to backfire. I assume they are trying to pander to their hate-filled religious fundamentalist base. But what do you think is going to happen when the undecided mushy middle sees Bush use his power to physically punish queer folks.

God forbid anyone on the left rock the boat. The course of action you suggest is not working. The democrats in the House and Senate are proving it. We cannot always just curl up in the fetal position and let this administration and the congressions republicans do whatever they want. Maybe you, Imajika, are the one who is "politically tone deaf."

[Brian_Expat]

18. Exactly my point

Gay marriage will happen BECAUSE of Bush and Rove and the Republicans. They pushed on this for political gain, and a coalition of angry Democrats, tired-of-being bashed gays and indifferent Americans who increasingly don't see the sense in discrimination will send Bush and Rove packing.

[Bandit]

19. As long as it is a government license that is requested ...

There should be no justification for discrimination. What if it were a driver's license or a hunting license? A government license should follow the same rules no matter what the license is issued for. If a Church wants to limit who they perform their service for that is acceptable but not the government. This is a uniformity issue and nothing else. You think the people really want the government to pick and chose who gets what license based on the prejudice of the issuer?