Should second generation Americans be allowed to run for president?

[_Jumper_]

Many second generation Americans are loyal to a furrin country. One of the key arguments against allowing immigrants to run is that they may be loyal to a furrin government. If that truly is the reason one opposes letting them run then it is logical for them to oppose second generation Americans running. If you somehow feel that second generation Americans should be allowed to run, please explain why you think they should.

[mac2]

1. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[_Jumper_]

2. I feel your pain

Cognitive dissonance is a very troubling thing.

[Art_from_Ark]

5. What the poster means is, this is getting old

And for what it's worth, Ralph Nader was born to immigrant parents.

[_Jumper_]

7. Then why did he or she choose to read the thread?

;)

[DRoseDARs]

3. According to my US Constitution...

...Native-born citizens (2nd generation or later) of the US are elligible to run for the presidency, so long as they're 35 years of age, a current citizen, and have been for the previous 14 years. If there was any hint the person in question were truly "loyal" to another country, they'd likely never even make it the level of a nominee, much less win the presidency.

Obviously, unless an Amendment is passed, Gov. AH-nold will never be president, but any child he has here would have a chance per the Constitution. This seems a good enough setup to me (in theory...ignoring for a moment an idiot like Bush the Younger rising to power): the USC sets the initial guidelines, the voting US public decides who can have a shot at it and who hasn't a chance in Hell.

It really comes down to what you mean by loyal. Perhaps if you define it, we could better answer your question.

[_Jumper_]

4. Response

"If there was any hint the person in question were truly "loyal" to another country, they'd likely never even make it the level of a nominee, much less win the presidency."

Exactly! That is why immigrants should be allowed to run too.

I will not define loyal. I will allow those that cite it as a reason for opposing giving immigrants the right to run for the presidency to define it.

[DRoseDARs]

6. Good enough response for me...

Though I disagree about allowing 1st generation immigrants the option to run for president. Think of it as letting them get acclimated to the culture and raising their children in it so that the childern are < tired cliche >"red-blooded americans"< /tired cliche >. Nothing wrong with keeping the cultural of your homeland (though, the politics are perhaps a different issue) alive and well within your own home and community, but a president must have a firm first-hand exposure to this country's culture first and foremost.

I don't know, perhaps that's a weak position to try to defend, but it remains that I'm not comfortable with altering that part of the USC. 2nd generation and beyond is ok by me, first generation isn't.

[_Jumper_]

8. What about those that come here when they are very young?

Such as under 5 years old?

I disagree with you but you are entitled to your opinion.

[DRoseDARs]

10. Well, lines have to be drawn...

...Even if the visibility is hazy. Ce la vie.

[Walt Starr]

17. If they weren't born here, they can never be president

Never.

That's the constitution, bud. I do not believe you will ever get support to change that one.

IMO, suggesting that it's okay to amend the constitution to remove this prohibition is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard.

[_Jumper_]

20. Equal rights are idiotic?

Sorry, I will not idly accept second-class citizenship.

[Walt Starr]

24. It's not a question of equal rights

Nice strawman.

[_Jumper_]

26. Yes it is

If one group does not have the right to run for the two highest offices in the land they do not have rights equal to what those that can run have.

[Walt Starr]

29. No, it's not

This nation does not even have to allow immigrants to become citizens.

We will never allow foreign born people to become president. Nor should we.

[_Jumper_]

34. How is that not second-class citizenship?

What other rights should furriners be deprived of? Why let them run for other high offices? Why let them serve on the Senate Intelligence Committee? They may be terraists!

[Walt Starr]

47. Youy don't like it, you can leave

That's the way it works here. I do not want to see the United tates make the fatal mistakes a certain south American nation made with this.

I will vehemently oppose all attempts to alter the constitution in this way. If you consider it second class citizenship, I do not care.

No foreign born individual should EVER be allowed to be our president. No amount of cliche's being pulled out will change my mind on the subject.

[Walt Starr]

49. BTW, running for president is not a right

It is a privelage.

If it were a right, an 18 year old should be able to run.

[SoCalDem]

9. 2nd generation would be eligible.

they would be BORN here if they were 2nd generation :)

[_Jumper_]

11. Response

The issue is loyalty. If loyalty is the reason to proscribe immigrants from running why allow second generation Americans?

That is not true. Second generation Americans are those who are the children of immigrants to America and whose home has always been America. I am second generation. My parents came here in the 70's. However, my mother was visting a furrin country when I was born and only my father was a citizen at the time. Had both of them been citizens I would have been an automatic citizen. Due to this quirk, I am inelgible. Does this make sense?

[SoCalDem]

12. You are the exception to the rule

"Most" 2nd gen would be native born..

[_Jumper_]

14. Am I a terraist because of that?

Why should I not have the same right to run for president as other Americans? Would you vote for Shrub over me? ;)

[Art_from_Ark]

44. Consular Report of Birth Abroad

Consular Report of Birth Abroad
A document issued by an American embassy or consulate reflecting the facts of a birth abroad of a child acquiring U.S. citizenship at birth through one or both parents. This record, also known as an FS-240, along with the Certification of Birth, DS-1350, are acceptable as proof of birth and U.S. citizenship for all legal purposes.

http://travel.state.gov/consular_records.html

[Walt Starr]

19. Cool, then some billionaire media mogul from Australia

could come here and become president easily because he owns the media and has the money.

:eyes:

That's what this is all about, not getting Swarzenegger or Albright the ability to run. It's all about getting a certain media mogul the right to become president.

[_Jumper_]

21. How would he be worse than people like Shrub and Raygun????

n/t

[Walt Starr]

27. You're not convincing me

And I call my Congressperson and Senators regularly on issues, including this one.

I will NEVER support amending the constitution to change this. NEVER

[Walt Starr]

33. You are constitutionally ineligible to be president

and I would never want you to be president because of that fact.

IMO, you are a first generation immigrant regardless of any argument you make to the contrary. If you were not born here, you should never be allowed to be president.

[_Jumper_]

36. Look up the definition of second generation

n/t

[Walt Starr]

46. No matter how you feel about it

I consider you first generation because you were not born on U.S. soil. I could never support amending the constitution to allow you to be president. If such an amendment were ever ratified, I would refuse to vote for any candidate who was not born on U.S. soil, you included.

[libertad]

50. John McCain was born in Panama. n/t

[SoCalDem]

52. Canal Zone is the US

My brother was born there as well and had dual citizenship

[Walt Starr]

53. Yep, same holds true for American hospitals at overseas bases

I've known many military brats who were born overseas who would still be qualified to run for president.

[DRoseDARs]

39. Interesting... _Jumper_ please read this and respond

I was under the impression that children born of USAmerican citizens (who have not lost their citizenship) WHILE VISITING a foreign nation are still considered natural citizens and therefore eligable.

Is this incorrect?

Hold on, looking in my old civics book, it says this:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Citizenship by Birth to an American Parent
Another method of automatic citizenship is birth to an American parent or parents. Thie principle is called jus sanguinis (YOOS SAHN-gwuh-nuhs), which means the "law of blood."

The rules governing jus sanguinis can be very complicated. If an individual is born in a foreign country and both parents are United States citizens, the child is a citizen, provided on requirement is met. One of the parents must have been a legal resident of the United States at some point in his or her life. If only one of the parents is an American citizen, however, that parent must have lived in the United States or an American possession for at least 10 years, 5 of which had to occur after the age of 14.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

How does that factor into your citizenship _Jumper_ ? If you're a "native-born" citizen under these rules, I see no reason why you shouldn't be eligable, or perhaps I'm missing part of the story.

Inquiring minds want to know... ;)

[_Jumper_]

40. My mother lived here for only six years at the time

If she had lived here for tens years I wouldn't be considered a threat. :eyes:

[DRoseDARs]

41. At the time the rule was written, we were worried about...

...the European nobility (re: the British) meddling in our affairs.

Damn you and your blue blood, _Jumper_ ! :grr:



;)

[SoCalDem]

42. No one considers you a "threat"

Your mother left the country before you were born.. she was not a US citizen.. Therefore you are not either (unless you have been naturalized)...but in any case, due to an "accident" of birthplace, you are not eligible..

If she had stayed til you were born, you would have been a citizen, regardless of her status..

Technically, the vietnamese kids fathered by US soldiers, have the same claim as you.

[libertad]

51. so if that one "detainee" who was born in Louisiana had just moved

back here for a few years he could have become President.

[John_H]

54. We look forward to your run for the senate.

[DRoseDARs]

13. SoCalDem, your sig pic is extremely disturbing

:scared:



;)

[SoCalDem]

15. It made me laugh when I saw it

Reminded me of Tom Delay...aka the bug-man :)

In fact //I just changed the caption

[DRoseDARs]

28. Suddenly I hear cockroaches scurrying about...

...*squish*...Eeewwww.

[Walt Starr]

16. We should NEVER allow foreign born citizens to run

Period.

No changing the constitution over this. Never.

[_Jumper_]

18. What about the 2nd generation?

n/t

[Walt Starr]

23. Second generation, by definition, have met the requirements

They were actually BORN here.

[_Jumper_]

25. False

Read post #11. I am shocked that you think that Shrub is more qualified to be president than I, a fellow progressive and DU'er.

[Walt Starr]

31. Yes, if you were not born here you are FIRST GENERATION

and yes, Shrub is more qualified than you because he was actually BORN here.

[_Jumper_]

38. That is not the definition

SYLLABICATION: sec·ond-gen·er·a·tion
PRONUNCIATION: sknd-jn-rshn
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to a person or persons whose parents are immigrants.

[Walt Starr]

48. But if you are not born here, you are the immigarant

regardless of whether or not your parents are also immigrants.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. History is on their side

Andrew Jackson's parents came from Ireland, and some even say he was born on the boat on the way over. Chet Arthur's father, a minister, sometimes lived in Canada.

If one is going to be picky about genealogy, maybe it would be best if we only allowed Native Americans to run for office....and knowing some cool Natives, that might not be such a bad idea.

[_Jumper_]

32. I don't know of any country with such a provision

It is xenophobic and pointless. The future is on my argument's side. In the future countries that believe in equal rights will elect furrin-born leaders and Americans will see that and realize it isn't a disaster.

Note: Canada already has but the world was not as tied together than as it is now. When it happens in the future Americans will know about it and see that leader on their TV and computer screens, the front page of their newspapers and realize it is not the end of the world.

[bleedingheart]

30. Second generation americans can run ...

because they were born here and you know that.

What inane research do you have to back up that second generation americans are loyal to another country???

My mother and father were second generation americans and they didn't even know any relatives living in their parent's former country...their parents had left and never looked back.

However that said.. I do not believe foreigners should be allowed to become president....no way no how...

[_Jumper_]

37. That isn't the issue

The issues is whether they should be allowed to run.

I said that SOME second generation Americans are loyal to a furrin country. That is a fact, just like some first generation Americans are loyal to a furrin country.

[bleedingheart]

43. I read the threads above and so I have a question...why did your mom leave

the country while pregnant?

Technically if your mother was concerned about you becoming a candidate for president then she should have come over here to have you....I would assume she read the constitution before becoming a citizen...

[_Jumper_]

45. It was irrational

She had two miscarriages here and felt that if she was with her family it wouldn't happen.

[rogerashton]

35. Only if they immigrate AFTER the amendment is passed.

Just as the two-term amendment only applied to presidents elected after it was passed.

Of course, with that qualification, it won't get any Republican support.