A question about Reagan and Alzheimer's Disease

[wellstone_democrat]

It seems to me from general reading that Reagan is largely assumed to have been suffering obvious effects of Alzheimer's Disease by 1985. That would be almost 20 years of observable symptoms. isn't that an unusually long time to survive?

This is not "flame bait" or anything of the sort. I'm just curious if his longevity is unusually long. A relative mentioned to me the other day that his own mother-in-law lived 15 years and that *this* was a long time to survive. In light of that, 20 years is extraordinary.

Any experts by care-taker status or medical training?

[bluestateguy]

1. he has the best medical care money can buy

so it' safe to assume that he would live a long time with it.

We all better hope he does not kick off around the fall election. The Goopers will have their own "Wellstone Memorial". I can just see some speaker now screaming from the podium "Win one more election for the Gipper!!!"

[Mick Knox]

2. Interesting thought..

My wifes uncle died in less than a two years... I dont know what all went into that though. Not an expert at all...

[Bridget Burke]

3. Symptoms vary...

Sometimes the progress of the disease is swift. Different areas of the brain can be affected--just memory or the parts that make the body run. Also, there's Alzheimer's & general dementia; believe it's really hard to tell the difference without an autopsy. It's an area that needs more study. What if we weren't invading other countries & starting up Star Wars again? This is one of the places some extra money would help.

Also, being able to afford the very best in medical care does help.

[Virginian]

4. I have wondered the same thing.

:tinfoilhat: Let me put on my Tin Foil Hat for a moment: Remember the movie "Dave" where the president had a stroke and this look-alike made all the public appearances? Maybe Reagan didn't survive the bullet (and the twenty year jinx) and his replacement has been kept out of public scrutiny by pretending to have Alzheimer's.

Maybe this way he didn't have to answer any Iran Contra questions.

Maybe he has been gone for years and they are "saving" his funeral for the "October Surprise."

[Snow]

5. Nice hat, there, Virginian....

in my limited knowledge consisting of working on a research proposal for testing dementia, it's variable. I had a great-aunt (here we go with the anecdotal stuff, oy vey!) who lived, hmmmm, prolly 10 years easy with dementia which is prolly alzheimers. But it's really one of those things that varies all over the place. Not only do some people with good medical care live longer, they also get diagnosed much earlier - so seemingly they have the disease longer, you see? But not really, of course.

And most of these sorts of diseases vary. Most people with Lou Gehrig's disease, ALS, die within 3-4 years of diagnosis. So what's with Stephen Hawking? Well, some ALS specialists feels the longer survivors are more willing to go for support like respirators, but it may be simply variations, both patient and disease.

[amazona]

15. no way

You are reckoning without the iron will of Nancy and Ron Jr.

If there was a double, I don't believe it would have been countenanced all this time. The family would be screaming. Also don't forget Patti Davis would have spilled the beans just to sell a new roman a clef.

They would have had to replace the entire family. Just didn't happen. This is a real man and unattractive as he was, real suffering.

[Virginian]

21. I don't generally believe in conspiracies...

there are too many people involved for someone not to spill the beans. But let me go get my tin foil hat so I can try to come up with some counter arguments.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

There, that's better. Now back to the fantasy world of What if...

Nancy was into the White House thing. She went along with it so that he could finish out his term.
She was seeking mediums to help her talk with him beyond the grave, but they were called astrologists when the press found out.

The kids weren't in on it. They didn't hang around their Dad much, while he was in the White House. In fact some of them weren't speaking to him. The Alzheimer's line would explain away anything they thought was different about the stand-in. He wouldn't be expected to remember their birthdays or where they went on vacation in 1958.

One of Dubya's brothers had dinner with the Hinkleys that night.

The neocons figured they could rig the elections so that Bush could take the 8 following years, but Bush could only be elected once if he assumed the office of POTUS then.

Every President since William Henry Harrison who had been elected in a year that ended in a zero had died in office. Why should Reagan be any different?
:shrug:

[TNDemo]

6. It can last for decades.

Usually the early onset is a little quicker - about eight years from diagnosis, however, I know a woman who got it about age 50 and is alive now about 25 years later.

[H2O Man]

7. Another factor

that should not be overlooked is that the guy was healthy and strong. I was against everything he represented, and think he was second only to the present occupant for the Evil Emperor award. But, like when he got shot, there was no question that he was a tough old dude.

[cmf]

8. I can imagine that he had the best medical care

Not the crappy nursing home experience most Americans who live that long and have dementia have to deal with. My grandmother had Alzheimer's and what caused her death at the end was an infection no doubt caused partially by the nursing center conditions.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

17. Agree.

A family friend's mother was put in a nursing home. She had alzheimer's. One day her family discovered bad bruises covering her chest and that she had been sexually abused. No charges were filed because they couldn't "prove" the abuse had been perpetrated by a staff member.
It's amazing the depth of the protective bubble our fearless leaders live in.

[Poiuyt]

9. The average lifespan of an Alzheimer's patient

LIFESPAN AFTER ALZHEIMER'S DIAGNOSIS LINKED TO AGE

29 November 2002

A person's lifespan after being diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease depends on their age at diagnosis, US researchers say.

Patients diagnosed at the age of 65 years could expect to live for a median of 9 years, the researchers said. But if diagnosis occurred at the age of 90 years, a person could expect to live for only about 3 more years.

The researchers presumed the difference occurred because older patients were at high risk of dying from other causes (Archives of Neurology 2002; 59: 1764-67).

Every 2 years, the researchers followed the progress of more than 900 people who enrolled in a study of normal ageing in the 1950s and the late 1970s.

They found no significant differences between men and women in survival after an Alzheimer's diagnosis.



Reproduced with kind permission from Medical Observer Weekly

http://www.mydr.com.au/default.asp?Article=3821

[lapislzi]

10. People of even moderate intelligence

know there's something seriously amiss and do everything they can to compensate, or "confabulate" as the experts call it.

Not knowing the individual sufferer, or not being a professional, will cause these fabrications to be easily missed. It happened all the time with my grandmother, who, even as she suffered from moderate-to-severe disease, could still pull it together at times and appear charmingly vague to strangers or people she believed she should impress.

It takes a close family member or a professional to spot the frantic machinations at work to keep the sufferer from falling apart. It is heartbreaking to watch, really.

I am no lover of Ray-gun, but I would not wish this disease on anyone, or his family.

[NNadir]

11. My theory is that Reagan's been dead for years.

They're using Lenin's embalmers to keep him fresh for his late October funeral.

Don't know if it's true...but there's justice in the thought of Lenin's embalmers.

[JasonBerry]

13. Some people believe that

Some people actually believe this. Anybody who knows the Reagan family would know that the chances of them doing anything for the Bush family is the same as a snowballs chance in hell. Nancy, Patti, Ron, Jr. (cool guy) - they all hate the Bush family. I wasn't a fan of the Reagan presidency, but this talk about the Reagan's using his death for Bush's political gain is just total nonsense. BTW: I know a close friend of Michael Deaver, who is very, very close to the Reagan family. He has told me, knowing of my interest in politics, that Nancy Reagan has actually written an anti-Bush Letter To The Editor (under a pseudonym) that was printed in the L.A. Times and nobody ever knew! Can't vouch for the story 100% - but it comes from somebody who wouldn't make that up. Plus, knowing of the Reagan family's disdain for the Bush's - I wasn't surprised.

[swinney]

12. Reagan had Alzi in 1984 per study

Dr. Steve Case, head of Geriatrics Dept. at University of Minnesota
published a report in 1984 which stated that Reagan had onset of Alzi.

The study was an analysis of his comments and, especially, his behavior during the two debates which were mental disasters.

The press only highlighted the debate in Louisville but the second was worse and we did not get to see replay after replay.

Reagan could not make a five minute speech to Boy Scouts in the Rose Garden without using his infamous index cards.

Gorbachev wrote in his memoirs "I presented a few warm up questions in order to Ger our discussion (Summit) started. President Reagan reached in his coat pocket and pulled out his stack of index cards.
He dropped them on the floor. I knew then our meeting was over. I suggested we go for a walk and let our aides continue the discussion."

Brain Dead Affable Dunce? Yep! Nancy did hard work. She was on phone each night to staffers while Reagan watched "The Three stooges".

One who makes such comments to the Pope "Come visit the White House and bring the wife and kids" is out of it mentally.

Millions are being spent to eulogize a poor record.

check this:

Comparing Democrat’s hero-CLINTON—versus Republican’s hero--REAGAN

1.JOBS—grew by 43% more under Clinton.
2.GDP---grew by 57% more under Clinton.
3.DOW—grew by 700% more under Clinton..
4.NASDAQ-grew by 18 times as much under Clinton.
4.SPENDING--grew by 28% under Clinton---80% under Reagan.
5.DEBT—grew by 43% under Clinton—187% under Reagan.
6. DEFICITS—Clinton got a large surplus--grew by 112% under Reagan.
7.NATIONAL INCOME—grew by100% more under Clinton.
8.PERSONAL INCOME—Grew by 110% more under Clinton.
SOURCES—Bureau of Labor Statistics (www.BLS.Gov)--Economic Policy Institute (EPI.org)—Global & World Almanacs from 1980 to 2003 (annual issues)
www.the-hamster.com (chart taken from NY Times)
National Archives History on Presidents. www.nara.gov

Please submit comments to [e-mail] or P.O. Box 3411-Burlington NC-27215

[amazona]

14. no 20 years is pretty typical in my family -- most lived longer

In my grandmother's generation, several of her sisters were involved with, um, alternative lifestyles and were able to earn a great deal of money at a time when most women couldn't. She was a decent woman and so she lasted about a decade after she became symptomatic. (She was acting odd before anyone suspected she had it though.) But she lasted about a decade after diagnosis. Her older sisters and aunts lasted as long as 30 years. It takes money and tube feeding, but yeah, they can keep you going as long as they like. It doesn't pay to be rich if you have Alzheimer's in your family because they will torture you forever to get every penny. If I sound cynical, I have a reason. They are torturing a man who doesn't remember how to eat or how to relieve himself. Let him go. You wouldn't do what you're doing to Reagan to a lab rat.

Our laws stink.

I have never heard anyone say before that 15 years is a long time to suffer with Alzheimer's. In theory, your life expectancy is 8 years after diagnosis. But most people can go years before being formally diagnosed because you can leave notes to yourself, people "front" for you, and so on. It's funny but you can actually read the little notes saying, "I have a daughter age 43 and her name is Sharon and she visited me last week" for several years after you have forgotten giving birth to Sharon and raising her up and seeing her last week.

This disease is cruel. But it doesn't kill you right away. Unfortunately. If it did, Dr. K. wouldn't be a hero to so many.

On Edit: I guess we've all heard the story of how Reagan's cue cards had to start with Hello. He didn't even remember that. My understanding is that he was in the prodromal (acting a little odd phase) during his governorship.

[Riptide]

16. There is no hard and fast rule.

My mother died of Alzheimers last year at only 71. She lived for about 8 years after the diagnosis. Although, I don't know if living is even the right word to use. She left us long before she died.

My dad and my siblings and I took care of her ourselves. She died at home, in her own bed. It is a horrible disease. It is so hard to care for someone with Alzheimers. I was only 35 when my mom died, and taking care of her and my 3 young children at the same time was the most emotionally exhausting thing I've ever done.

[TNDemo]

18. The ham in the sandwich generation.

That is what I called myself and you were too. I salute you and all the other members on DU who have gone down this long, nasty road. I had three kids, a job, then my mother, her mother and my FIL all developed Alzheimer's simultaneously. I would never, ever go back to that.

My mother died last summer just after her 70th birthday of Alzheimer's. She was extremely good about compensating, which has been mentioned on this thread earlier. It is usually noticed first at work. They knew a long time before we figured it out. She quit cooking and bought everything, but hey, she never liked to cook in the first place, so why not? She got directions and meeting times mixed up, but that was never her forte and maybe she wasn't paying attention. It was only in retrospect I can see how long it had been going on. It was around 1989-90 when she got really volatile emotionally. She was driving me nuts but I thought she just needed some estrogen or Prozac. She was in her 50s and Alzheimer's did not enter my mind. She was always meticulous about her finances but once I took over hers I saw that even in 1989 she was no longer able to carry a balance in her checkbook or reconcile it.

I lived for about five years between nursing homes (after it got too bad for home care). There are so many people there that have long outlived their lives but those brainstem functions just keep clicking along. If you don't catch pneumonia or get a urinary tract infection, you can survive that way for many, many years. So if there is an afterlife my first question is going to be why young vibrant and needed people die while others languish on and on.

[stanwyck]

19. My mother has Alzheimer's

and there's a reason it's called "the slow death". The symptoms are very gradual. There were very minor changes in my mother's behavior. Then, one day, she couldn't start the car. She couldn't remember the sequence. My father finally had to admit she needed to see a doctor (beyond their family friend MD). Even then, the results were quite inconclusive. It's a very insidious disease. She's been suffering for 6 years now. She is now extremely ill, can't walk or speak and does not seem to be cognizant of who we are. My father has been amazing. However, his health has suffered due to his tireless caretaking. This is a truly horrible illness.

[onecitizen]

20. It is a long time to survive but..........

you have to realize that most people do not have the support and resources that Reagan has. He has the finances to buy anything he needs. Any care he needs. That makes a big difference in survival time, as it is in most diseases. AND the disease progresses at different speeds for everyone who has it. As a nurse, I suspected Reagan was sick while he was still President. You can just tell Neurological diseases when you see them. I didn't know WHAT particular disease he had, just that he had one.