Have you considered the effect of the Double Whammy October Surprise

[tom_paine]

(these might not occur in this order, but I believe the likelihood of these TWO staged occurrances are very likely from thi the most dishonest, corrupt, scripted, Orwellian Rulers to ever put their boot on the neck of America)

1) The "well-timed" capture of Osama. Based on the level of propaganda preparation, I would say that'll happen by June.

2) The "well-timed" death of Ronnie Raygun, probably in August/early Sept., which will trigger a blizzard of Pravda that will make the Funeral of Stalin look like a pauper's burial in a pine box.

The airwaves will keen 24/7, both Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-media and Corporate TV Pravda, which does little more than trail along in it's scummy wake these days anyway.

Can it be stopped? Will the Imperial Subjects of Amerika see through it? Will it even matter, given Imperial Amerika kas a Third World Voting System, a Third World Media and a Third World Justice System?

Because I still maintain that for the Democrats to "eke out a squeaker", we will have to win by 8-10% when you consider all the MANUAL disenfranhcisement tactics successfully pioneered by he Busheviks (and perhaps long before...how long has this been going on under the surface?) in 2000 and 2002. When you throw in Touchscreen "Stalin" voting, that's how I get my 8-10% figure. All the Busheviks have to do is keep their margin of los below 8% and they'll "win".

And I think if they stage a Double Whammy October Surprise, given the utterly weak prostration of the Formerly Free Press, they might be able to do it.

Thoughts? Comments? Flames?

[patdem]

1. Well, bush* needs to find Usuma in Rayguns coffin for it to have an effect

bush* policies will not change because Usuma is found...his policies will be as detrimental as ever!!!

[historian]

2. Osama

Even if Osama is being kept on ice so he can be presented in election time i dont see the importance of it. Bush is still a miserable lying nazi and nothing will have changed. I dont care if he captures the entire Mafia - nothing will change my opinion of this depraved nincompoop.
Do you think the p opulation will fall for that?

[humble truth]

5. But people like "good news"

Bush's popularity spiked in December when Saddam was caught. Capturing bin Laden won't suddenly make Bush genius, but he'll ride the wave. If he's caught in June it will be too early and Bush very well still might lose. It needs to be in October for it to still have much weight come election day.

[tom_paine]

9. Hence the Conveniently Timed Death of Ronnie Raygun

Watch. Just as the polls are slipping back towards normal (but still with a small boost), Raygun just...you know...dies.

Lucky them! Another trifecta! And if Raygun "dies" in late August, that leads into the Imperial Coinvention (which also historically engenders a "bump") which then leads into $150,000,000 worth of Lies Laundered, Bribes Made, and Dirty Tricks authorized/funded.

Sounds like a plan to me.

[tom_paine]

6. Many will. That is not in question

Will a majority (or just enough of a minority to stay with the 8% "wining margin") fall for that?

Now THAT is a much more unpredictable question...

[ithacan]

24. overshadow the Democratic Convention

you're right, it won't make a difference; But the timing is all. If he's caught at the time of the Demo convention, the capture news will overshadow the convention...

[Monument]

3. Wellstone funeral backfired horribly...

no reason to see how anybody gets any gain from exploiting somebody's death. all the hoopla surrounding Wellstone's funeral and how his name was exploited for the sake of the DNC emboldened Dems.

Don't see how ronnie's departure would be any different. If they don't make a big deal out of it, it could be good for the Repubs. If they try to exploit his legacy and sell him out to gain votes, people will see right thru it.

hopefully Ron won't die before the election. I wish nothing but the best for any old men.

[wysi]

7. I think...

... you may be missing the point slightly. RR is already dead (just like OBL). It's just that they're waiting to tell us to maximize the impact of the news.

[tom_paine]

11. What exactly are you trying to say?

(other than repeating "Fair and Balanced" quarter-truths)

:wtf: :wtf:

Wellstone's funeral didn't "backfire". It was a fucking funeral! It was only the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media and Lie Laundry that made it so.

How did it do that? By lying, of course. Amd lying and lying and lying. You know, like Busheviks always do (God, that sounds so weird...never in my life have I seen such consistent and repetetive lying about EVERYTHING!).

I won't go into it all here. Al Franken's book, for allit's comedy stylings, does a damned fine (if a bit humorous) job of dissecting the lies, how they were spread, and what really happened.

And I am 95% certain that Ronnie Raygun WILL die before the election. nature will have nothing to do with it. Like everything else the Imperial Family does, it will be phony and scripted.

Of course, a "phony and scripted" death is also called a murder.

Wait for it.

[denverbill]

18. What do you mean it 'backfired'?

It was a friggin memorial service. Memorial services don't backfire. You make it sound like Democrats deliberately killed off Wellstone a week before the election in order to stage a political rally to elect Mondale.

The only reason the event caused any stir at all was because the right-wing press bleated and whined about it continuously for a week. They acted like it was somehow evil for Democrats to be emotionally charged up when they are attending a memorial service for one of their leaders.

But the flaming fuckwads didn't say a damned thing when Hillary Clinton got booed at a memorial service for the NYC firefighters. No right-wing commentator thought that was at all in poor taste. As a matter of fact, they trumpeted it triumphantly.

[gristy]

89. Two words

Rick Kahn.

He was the speaker at Wellstone's memorial service who asked that dems rise up (or something like that) against the repukes. He shouted something over and over again, like he was a preacher. It backfired. I had been working phone banks in support of Wellstone for weeks, and stood with a Mondale sign over overpasses in the week after his death. And I have also railed since then against the dem leadership who did not take control of the memorial so as to make sure something like what did happen would not.

[carpetbagger]

91. Re: Hillary Clinton getting booed

If it's what I'm thinking about, it was a rock concert headlined by Paul McCartney and The Who, not a memorial service. I remember her getting booed, but I also remember Reggie Jackson getting the same treatment. It was an affectionate razzing more than anything else, eminating from the cops and firemen themselves.

As to Wellstone's funeral, I've never seen anything like that in my life. It was a campaign rally, not a funeral service. Believe me, if I were at a service like that for one of our lovely statewide office-holders in Texas, and they started berating audience-members personally, I'd be pissed. As it is, I try to avoid evangelical Christian funerals.

As to Ray-gun, the disclosure of his dementia, days before the 1994 election, did the trick. It's likely there still would have been a GOP victory, but that single event turned a mild victory into a massive one.

[Atlant]

80. You're discounting the effects of the Republican Media.

You're discounting the effects of the Republican Media.
There was nothing wrong with Wellstone's funeral; but
it provided a perfect opportunity for the Republican liars
in the Republican Media to slam the Democrats, so they did.

Converesely, the Reagan Funeral will be covered in a touchingly
sweet fashion, and no excess that is performed, no matter how
political, crass, or vile will be spoken of badly by the still-
quite-Republican Media liars.

Atlant

[dflprincess]

90. It wasn't his funeral

It was a memorial service. His and Sheila's funeral was held the day before and was private. What you're referring to is the public memorial to the public man.

Read Al Franken's chapter on what happened at the memorial and how it was spun.

[wysi]

4. Despair...

I am afraid you are correct Tom Paine. I'm not sure either October surprise will be quite enough for them, but the whole election is rigged anyway. * wins in an apparent landslide, despite the *actual* vote going to the Dem in a landslide.

[tom_paine]

12. DON'T GIVE IN TO DESPAIR!

Where there is life, there's hope. Think of George washington in 1780. His army starving, out of money. The French sitting on their asses in Rhode Island.

Washington, history shows, was despondent and was making preparations for life under British Rule (though he kept up a brave face for the morale of his men).

Yet, a mere year and a half later, he won.

Washington and the Colonial Army were as out-financed by King George's Army as we are by King George's Party-Loyal Sub-Media and the rest of the Army of Liars.

Don't despair. Get up and do something instead! Donate to Kerry, write a letter to the editor, speak out in public, convince your friends, just DO SOMETHING!

This thing isn't over yet. I admit it doesn't look great, but SO WHAT!

I'm not giving up! And neither should you....

[wysi]

15. Good point...

I do need some morale boosting occasionally.

I'm organising the local ex-pats here in NZ to register and vote.

[Andy_Stephenson]

19. I read this too fast

"I'm organising the local ex-pats here in NZ to register and vote."

I thought you said orgasming....:evilgrin:

[lastknowngood]

39. Yo how do I get there? I'm looking at options after Nov.

any tips or info would be appreciated

[tom_paine]

20. Be happy you're in New Zealand

It might get pretty hot for dissidents in the Empire if the Imperial Family isn't stopped.

Hell, I might wind up on your doorstep, begging for a Poltical Asylum Visa and a job...

[lastknowngood]

8. Don't forget the declaring of victory in Iraq and the final

confirmation of bush* intelllllllect the finding of CIA planted
nerve agents. The combo will be a full vindication of the BUSHCO.

[knight_of_the_star]

63. I don't the CIA will cooperate with that

They ain't happy with him for MANY reasons. Given half a chance they would blow that up like so much confetti. That and if it takes THAT long to find WMDs, that says a lot about the validity of the invasion.

[patricia92243]

10. Reagan dying can't be timed.

[tom_paine]

14. Sure it can be

A needle full of potassium chloride solution behind the ear is undetectable and causes heart attack.

You really think anyone will be giving Raygun an autopsy? You really think, even if something were found (and I'm guessing they won't be lifting his earlobes to check for surreptitious needle tracks) do you really think it would get out?

More likely the doctor will be a Bushevik Loyalist. If by chance he isn't and he finds something, then I expect him to either "commit suicide" by overdose or fall from an unscreened window from greater than 50 feet onto a hard surface.

I can't believe you just said "Raygun dying can't be timed."

You should tell that to Livia Augusta, who poisoned Emperor Augustus by smearing poison on the figs. Great timing, considering Auygustus was very possibly getting ready to change his will and disinherit her son.

You should tell that to Paull Wellstone.

Oh yeah, I forgot, he died...at a very convenient time for the Imperial family.

[PaDUer]

36. Tom, you've hit the bell. n/t

[E-Z Rider]

38. good lord

[dflprincess]

47. Yes but,

they have to get through Nancy. And, if it's true that there is no love lost between the Reagans and the Bushies she (and the kids) may not let them use Ronnie's death to their advantage. Or so we can hope.

[tom_paine]

50. Good point. Has anyone heard from Nancy lately?

Just wondering...?

I could have it all wrong, of course. I would rather that was the case.

[amazona]

37. with Alzheimer's yes it can they are keeping him alive

You forget how to eat and Reagan is already at this stage. Since he is rich and a president, they didn't do what they did a few months ago with my grandmother -- move her into a hospice and let her starve to death. They torture a man who can never recover by force feeding him. Stop the feeding, he will die in a few days or weeks. With Alzheimer's, it is almost better to be poor than to be rich. My grandmother, who was relatively poor, was allowed to die after about a decade of symptoms. I have more well-to-do decades who were kept on support for going on three decades. It is cruel. But, yes, it can be timed. If you have enough money, they can keep you going, even though your brain has departed the planet years ago. We assume the victims don't know what is happening and they don't suffer, and I hope this is true...but I honestly don't know. He has lost all ability to function, they should let him go. No purpose is served by torturing the man.

[tom_paine]

44. You think the Busheviks get upset about torturing somebody?

And, yes, I'm afraid overshadowing that Democratic convention is more than enough purpose for throwing Raygun (who probably was a little bit pResident in the first few years, and nothing for the last five but a stage prop, the poor bastard) into a meatgrinder.

For those monsters, who's hands are covered with the wanton murders of tens of thousands of Iraquis and 540 of our brave soldiers, not to mention how many of our brave soldiers now without eyes, limbs...

I can't see them really having a problem with it.

I imagine the scenario you laid out is more likely than my needle behind the ear. That way, there's nothing to catch...no danger (Watergate taught these people to be extra devious in the commission of their crimes) of anything being found.

Just one big ol' "Horst Wessel" coming up.

You think they'll coin the "Ronnie Raygun Song" afterwards?

Naah. Bad marketing strategy to bring up an old discredited product if you're trying to bring it back in a new form.

[Kazak]

13. Bush* has got to come up with WMD...

nothing less will do 'em any good, and I'm not sure even that will.

[YNGW]

16. Ashley Roachclip

No stems, No seeds that you don't need
Acapulco Gold is.......
(Big Toke)
Bad Ass Weed!!!!

- Cheech & Chong

[Andy_Stephenson]

17. This paragraph....

"Because I still maintain that for the Democrats to "eke out a squeaker", we will have to win by 8-10% when you consider all the MANUAL disenfranhcisement tactics successfully pioneered by he Busheviks (and perhaps long before...how long has this been going on under the surface?) in 2000 and 2002. When you throw in Touchscreen "Stalin" voting, that's how I get my 8-10% figure. All the Busheviks have to do is keep their margin of los below 8% and they'll "win"."

No matter what happens...it will be a landslide for ° (damn German Keyboard) There is no way he can loose unless you vote absentee and not on touchscreen. Even then there are no gurantees. Sad but true...I am afraid we are stuck with Der Führer. (the only thing this keyboard is good for these ÖÜÄ)

[tom_paine]

23. See Post #12, Andy

You of all people should know that.

And thanks for all you and Bev do...

:toast: :toast: :beer:

[democratreformed]

26. So, does anyone know what happens if you go to your polling place

and just refust to vote touchscreen? My county's supposed to be getting them. I'm wondering what they'll do if I just refuse to use them. Will they just not let me vote?

[tom_paine]

49. I don't know but my guess: Arrest

"Disturbing the Peace" or something like that.

At best you will be shoved aside, where weary and overworked (imagine the turnout!) election pollsters (only one or none of whom are corrupt) will try and sort it ut later.

But that is just a guess. If you do trya nd do it, let me know how it turns out by PM.

[TruthIsAll]

93. Andy, I'm amazed at your negativity...

If you really feel that Bush can't lose, why do you bother working so hard with Bev?

Face it. If Bush is losing big (10%), he won't be able to steal it, and if he tries to, there will be blood in the streets.

OTH, if the polls narrow and the media tells us that only 4% separates the candidates, all bets are off.

[justgamma]

21. double whammy

I think the double whammy will be OBL and some sort of big "scandle" involving the Democratic candidate.

[PaDUer]

43. Scandal involving the D candidate?

I don't think so..the double whammy will be when all the shit comes out about the misadministration and how they're going to try anything and everything because they're caught red handed.

[Jane Austin]

22. Osama

If we're smart as a party, we'll anticipate this
"surprise" out loud often enough that we can defuse
it as an issue ahead of time.

Kind of like the stock market getting hints of earnings
reports, and by the time they come out officially, the market
has already taken them into account, and the market actually
falls on good reports instead of rising.

In other words, keep talking about how Bush & Co. will use
it as a closer to their campaign and when or if they do,
they'll look like phonies.

[northofdenali]

34. I agree, janeaustin - and the candidates should

keep this and any other anticipated "events" (Code orange or red, etc.) in the voters faces.

Welcome to DU, by the way - :hi:

[tom_paine]

46. Welcome to DU, JaneAusten

Come on in & have a beer...

:beer: :toast: :hi:

I've been doing that for 3 years, which is approximately I've been telling everyone and predicting Raygun's "death" (not the "capture" of OBL).

So I guess my reply is "I'm already on it."

Once again...welcome.

[Jane Austin]

70. Thanks

Thanks for the welcomes.  I'm enjoying the threads.

May I have a single-malt Scotch whiskey (neat) instead?  :)

[tom_paine]

77. I'm a Bourbon man, meself, but...

sure, why the hell not?

:evilgrin:

[x-g.o.p.er]

92. Welcome to DU, Jane

[jansu]

25. TERRORIST RED ALERT!

I think they will try the capture of Osama and because of that a couple of days later, they will either raise the alert to RED because "we have warnings they were going to release something because of our capture of Osama" or there will be a small "something" released in America and we must go to Red Alert and only Bush and gang can keep us safe!

If you have read the alerts, and what must been done under them, Under Red Alert, there is 24 hours curfew......can't leave your house, so can't vote! "We will hold the elections as soon as we have won this war on Terrorism! Trust us"! But, remember, Bush and gang have told us that this is a never ending war!

Okay, is this just those little gray cells mis-firing with the scare hormone or does anyone else feel that they would pull something like this?

I want to be wrong!

[frank frankly]

27. i agree completely with needing 8-10% to win by 1%

excellent analysis as always, tom!

[Exultant Democracy]

28. In a "Weekend at Bernie's" like event

Ray-gun will be visiting some foreign country to be honored where he will drop dead. While being flown back his body will drop out of the helicopter and crush Osama while he was attempting to rape a nice little girl from Georgia.

[frank frankly]

31. zing!

I smell a winner!

[Exultant Democracy]

41. I forgot the part with the dirty bomb

and Janets nipple, but I guess I got the main point across.

[Dr Fate]

29. Kerry should start openly "predicting" this...

...as subtly as possible, of course.

It wont hurt him at all, because almost every American I have talked to, Repub. or DEM, admits that they have entertained this notion...

He could say somthing like:

"A lot of intelligence indicates that that WE should have Bin Laden by October, so dont be suprised if WE get him by Haloween..."

[buckeye1]

It doesn't matter.

Bin Laden will never be captured. No one gives a shit about Reagan anymore. Two corpse won't mean much.

[tom_paine]

48. Ohhh....you'll see. Make sure and watch at least 2 hrs of TV/day after

Watch CNN for 1 hr. every day after Raygun dies for a month. At the end of that month, you'll be seeing.

And Faux?!? Watch 5 MIN. a day of THAT for a months after.

:silly: :crazy: :crazy: :silly: :silly:

Ohh, I'm sure THEY won't be running Raygun: A Conservative Legacy too often (with introductiong by an Double-Lobed Orange-Haired Steriod Freak Gropenator) a month afterwards

They'll be wearing Raygun-head Lapel Pins for YEARS! It is going to be a grotesque Orwellian spectacle. You'll see. It's coming soon, like a slow and ponderous freight train.

And it will occur regardless of when Raygun dies, even if I am totally wrong (a possibility) so you will see it soon, regardless.

Watch. Listen. Learn.

[John_H]

30. Easiest strategy of all the things we have to worry about.

The strategy: We have to stop saying "where's osama?" NOW. It will make us look like huge assholes if they get him. What we shoul dbe saying is that the events in Iraq, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere prove that Osama isn't really important. Chimp missed the chance to destroy Al Queda by getting sidetracked in Iraq.

When's osama coming? Osama's coming earlier than October--way earlier. The prep has begun.

Leaks from the military that they know where he is which are then undercut by Rummy, honest republicans trying to spill the beans (grassley, et. al) Chimps telegraph during the russert interview, stories on CNN, FAUX that they're getting close.

My guess is shortly before the Dem convention or much sooner if Kerry looks like he's on a roll.

Whatever the opposite of tinfoil hatter is, I'm it. And I'm 100 percent sure they either have him, or know exactly where he is.

Raygun's even easier--Deficits Deficits Deficits.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tom_paine]

52. Don't you call me a communist

Who the fuck are YOU? I'm about the farthest goddamned thing from a communist on this board.

I SERVED my country. Unlike Der Fuhrer, I have the DD-214 to prove it. Did you serve? I'm guessing no. I believe strongly in Capitalism, in reward for risk, initiative, ingenuity, etc. I also believe in a partial social safety net as we had 15-20 years ago, as well as a flatter wealth distribution curve (ideally this would be achieved by choice, if not... then things like estate tax, as T Roosevelt believed, good Republican that he was, that such a device would help deter the emeregence of a corrupt and moribund and permanent aristocracy).

One of the reasons (besides Communism being more horribly unjust by far than New Deal/post WWII Capitalism) I hated the Soviets so much when I was a kid was their lies lies constant lies, their oppression of their people, their stealing stealing stealing from their people, their corruption and the shitty way they pushed nations and people around.

Well, pal, I got some news for you. The Imperial Family has taken far more than a few Baby Steps toward being like the fucking Soviets. Same Tyranny, different rationale. Yes, I know, hey are just tiny right now, imperceptable baby steps than do not effect our personal lives (yet).

It is easy to live in denial at this time. Try it a decade from now if the "Republican" Party retains control.

You think me :tinfoilhat: for speaking about what machinations are possible. History records many. Do you really think we are immune from what has gone on since the dawn of human history?

And how :tinfoilhat: would it be if I speculated so about the lines of succession in Commie China.

For the first time in our lives, I think "Kremlinology" is a rising field of study in Amerika (as opposed to the old American Republic I served and loved so well and still pray for it's restoration to health and strength) thanks to the Imperial family.

And if it is to be stopped within the system, it must be stopped now before it grows and entrenches.

I am not a Commie. Don't call me one, please.

[JasonBerry]

66. Good for you!

Way to go Tom_Paine! I don't agree that Reagan would be used but the rest of the post sounds pretty damned viable to me. Glad you gave em a dose of good old fashioned righteous indignation.

[radwriter0555]

33. No. obl has been dead for more than 2 years. Cheney will get DUMPED

and frist will get the nod for veep after being trotted around the country and somehow being turned into a hero.

Maybe he'll rescue some kids from a burning building or something.

[Jane Austin]

71. Frist

Hmmm . . .  Is it just me, or is he a little too pencil-necked
to seem strong enough to be veep?

Of course, I'm the one who thought Bush would lose because of
Cheney.  I mean the guy  never looks at you, talks out of the
side of his mouth, and rubs his hands together like Uriah Heep
wnen he's on TV, so whadda I know?

Where's Dickens when you need him?  He could put him in a
novel as a villain so everybody could understand!

[amazona]

35. hmmm

Ronald Reagan is the person most responsible for middle class families having to go into horrendous debt to fund college. In days gone by -- days a woman my age can still remember -- virtually everyone went to college on grants unless they were quite well to do. I don't think bringing up fond memories of Reagan is going to help anyone this time of century. Families have finally woken up to how much he cost them -- tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per child just in education costs alone.

Having Alzheimer's in the family, I know that it will be a blessing to his family when his suffering ends, and I won't begrudge his passing. Let him go. He did great wrong but he has suffered for at least two decades from a terrible illness. We just have to let it go.

As far as Osama, I'll believe it when I see it. The Bush family did and does business with the Bin Ladens. If a capture is said to occur, well, I for one will demand a DNA test from an independent lab in an independent nation like Cuba before I'll be confident it's actually him and not some lookalike.

The stupid people aren't going to vote for us anyway, you know. I hope people of at least adequate intelligence will go into the pharmacy and then look at their insurance statement and then look at their homeowner's insurance and then look at their stock portfolio and then vote their wallet. (Keep in mind, despite all the cries of a stock run-up, we will never get our money back from Enron, Worldcom or all the rest -- they cheat by removing the "zeros" from the Dow. People DON'T have their retirement funds back.) If people would just vote their wallet, * would be trounced. UNfortunately, there is a large minority that will vote to throw away every bit of cash in their own wallet as long as it deprives a black child of an education. Hence, the campaign of calling teachers "terrorists"...it's a code way of calling them you-know-what-lovers. Don't believe for a minute that such "mis-statements" are unscripted...

[KharmaTrain]

40. The Other Surprise

I've heard more and more of this being spread around...that this regime either knows of or is avoiding intelligence that would point to another devestating Al Queda attack (or one in that style) someone near the U.S. mainland (Canada for example)...close enough to scare the sheeple into flocking to the polls to kiss the RoveCo. ring.

At first I thought this was the real tin-hatters, but we're already seeing this regime will pull any stunt to divert attention from their own crimes and divide the Democrats (gays, religion, military). If this tactic doesn't work, do you think they'll roll over and die like Poppy? Not this cabal...they'll have to be dragged out of the White House with drapes and carpeting in hand.

Things have been too quiet. There hasn't been a direct Al Queda attack on the U.S. since 9/11 and usually it's two to three years between big operations. Let's say the timing has been set back as offices and connections were disrupted, but since our Iraq adventure, Al Queda has regrouped and as lethal as ever. In many ways that serves this regime's purposes since without an enemy, hate and division, this regime has nothing to stand on.

[teryang]

42. The CIA has regrouped and is as lethal

...as ever. :-)

They will stop at nothing to stay in power. Fraud, assassination, treason, terrorism, war, whatever it takes.

[tom_paine]

55. I still think that there is a portion of the CIA loyal to America

and NOT to the Imperial Family.

This is utter speculation and I am being upfront about it but my guess is probbaly a 75-25% split or so with non-loyal people being demoted or passed over or early retired as quick as they can at the CIA, FBI... everywhere.

"Reorganization", after 9/11.

Ugh! A Reichstag Fire chill went up my neck.

[teryang]

72. Perhaps in the analysts sections

These are the people who know why we have a public relations problem in the third world (and now everywhere) and who couldn't see the alleged rationale or benefits of invading Iraq. The analysts are the front that the CIA and the other agencies present to the public, these people are on the up and up and do great work. They also have no real power.

But the agents and operatives, who permeate the government, media and business are for the most part entirely venal. The intelligence community is completely unaccountable to anyone and absolutely corrupt according to the rule of human nature. There is absolutely no "oversight" or check on their interminable schemes to convert assets, topple governments (including our own), oppress and exploit peoples and resources and amass greater wealth and power. The justice/FBI operates as a clean up crew for the covert domestic operations, like the anthrax job and 911, narcotraffic, and bank rip offs.


The current American government has more in common with the politics of ancient pyramidal civilizations than a democracy. There is a small ruling class on the top unaccountable to anyone, operating secretly while churning out mythology 24/7. I am reminded of Cortes descriptions of the Aztecs with whom he competed in butchery and duplicity.

[Minstrel Boy]

45. "near the U.S. mainland (Canada for example)..."

I'm half expecting it. Say, a Bali-sized blast in a Toronto nightclub. Canadian blood is still cheaper than American, and it would serve to boost Bush's fear factor without the White House having allowed another attack on US soil.

Also, if it happens before our own election, it would likely drive voters to the hard right Conservatives and provoke a mindless stampede away from the left.

[KharmaTrain]

51. I Loathe Posting This

Just to mention it is like wishing bad, and except for this regime's misfortune in underestimating the American people, I sure don't like putting out a post like that...but it's one I've heard on a couple of occasions now and can give it credibility.

Yes, Canadian blood is cheaper than American...and any major attack also happens in the same time zones, with people who like and sound like us and "just miles from our border"...I can hear it now. Damn I hope I'm wrong!!!

[scottxyz]

53. VERY well written

You're good at saying it like it is, tom_paine.

"MANUAL disenfranchisement tactics" packs quite a lot of info about recent history into three words (accent on the first - to differentiate against the newer HIGH-TECH disenfranchisment technology a/k/a touch-screen paperless voting.)

You are a very good strategist. Could we harness the analysis and imagery of a few more like you and create a counter-Rove?

[tom_paine]

58. Thanks. I'm up for it. Got $5,000,000 in seed money?

Well need to get some airtime and hire some publicists...

:evilgrin:

I'd LOOOOVE to, but I got a mortgage to pay and a different career.

You know, who the hell knew this was going to happen? Who knew that, in order to be there for my country when it needed me most, I needed to go into journalism or broadcasting or politics.

But I didn't. I, like so many others, dozed through the Clinton Years fat and happy.

By the time Impeachement began to tickle my brain (I remember thinking quite clearly, "This thing somehow seems Roman, like an episode of 'I, Claudius'"...but I couldn't put it together) that something was very wrong. VERY wrong with a system that was running that stupid-ass trumped up circus that 2/3rds of the country disapproved of!

By the time of the Bloodless Coup of 2000 and a full awakening to the dangers to Constituional Republican Democracy, the cancer had metastasized and was swallowing the Old Republic whole.

So, back to my original question, "Got $5,000,000 in seed money for our operation?"

Got any of that George Soros money?

Fuck, if I was a goddamned Bushevik even at this late date I'll bet I could collect some of that goddamned money they got a-sloppin' over the trough and start a new career.

But of course, that would betray my very soul. And I would be damned.

[MrPrax]

54. Have you considered...

that neither Democratic front runners will attract enough votes?

oh yeah and um...

1) The "well-timed" capture of Osama. Based on the level of propaganda preparation, I would say that'll happen by June.

2) The "well-timed" death of Ronnie Raygun, probably in August/early Sept., which will trigger a blizzard of Pravda that will make the Funeral of Stalin look like a pauper's burial in a pine box.

or an ineffectual democratic candidate that will make most of the swing voters think...'well I should leave with the guy that brought me'

[tom_paine]

59. Sure, I consider that I might be wrong about things

The problem is that with a distrustworthy and corrupt system...it's impossible to know.

You understand I and all of us have little experience with this, and that is something that is being exploited by the powers of this New Softcore Totalitarianism or Managed Democracy (which, in a laughable irony, is what the Punditocracy is calling Putin's regime)

Anything and everything is possible. All levels from totally wrong to completely dead-balls-on-accurate are still possible.

The future isn't written, and I pray that I am wrong.

And of course if these events do not occur within even a close proximity of the timeframe as I suggest...

it will be the happiest plate of crow I ever et.

Because things aren't nearly as bad as I thought they were and I'm just a :tinfoilhat:

We'll see.

[MrPrax]

69. From One Crow to Another

I hope you are not one of the distruthworthy that might suggest that 'a good aspirin factory is a dead aspirin factory' or a victim of 'one soccer mom' is a 'tradegy' and a few million votes is a 'statistic', brother ;-)

I don't have the powers of Nostradamus...but I do have a CD copy of Nina Simone and her 'tirade' about going SLOW...

So who is B and who is he talking to?

[scottxyz]

56. Anybody remember where that recent article was...

...which QUANTIFIED the edge the Electoral College gives to the (emptier) Republican-leaning states?

That would be relevant to this issue.

[bagnana]

57. the failure to find WMD's gives me hope there are limits

to even the BFEE's ability to pull off such a stunt as hiding osama in a hole and pulling him out in October. I was so sure they were going to plant WMD's if they didn't find them, that I am shocked that we are still WMD-less today. It heartens me to think they can't get away w/that crap, and makes me think there is hope they also can't get away w/planting OBL.

[tom_paine]

61. Good point.

[scottxyz]

60. I like the idea of EXPLICITLY calling for a "supermajority"

I have seen several articles quantifying the various structural/artificial advantages the Republicans have due to:

- Electoral College lopsidedness between Dem/Repub states
(a sort of age-old federal-leverl gerrymandering)

- Computerized disenfranchisement of the voting rolls (Choicepoint)

- Computerized tampering with votes case (Diebold, Sequoia)

- Manual tampering with absentee votes

- Other forms of vote tampering

I think a serious effort should be made to quantify this, and then whatever the margin of advantage provided by all the Republican cheating, we should simply state that THIS is how much we have to win by.

If they're gonna rig the system, document how much of a margin it give them - and then tell them we're STILL gonna clean their clocks.

If there's a 70/30 majority this fall anti-Bush (and that wouldn't really be that hard) then it would be TOO BIG A MARGIN for them to rig.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

73. Another sad outcome: Kerry is too strong so he get's Robert Kennedy-ed.

All it took to remove the one-man roadblocks to the Military Industrial Complex in the past was a (figurative) single bullet.

JFK, RFK, MLK. It could be used to make the Prez even less available to the public and demonize protesters as 'too dangerous for democracy.'

It just doesn't make sense that these calculating killers would relinquish the White House just because the people want to get rid of them, does it?

If it comes to pass that Kerry does take the oath of office, I will just be amazed and admittedly distrustful of his administration until they establish world peace and prosperity and cure the common cold.

[eridani]

62. How to deal with Osama

Talk about it now. They are supposedly sending special forces in after him. Ask it all the time and keep repeating "Why wasn't this plan set in motion on 9-12-01? Why did we have to invade two countries if that is all it takes to get Osama?"

[JasonBerry]

64. NO WAY about Reagan

Some people actually believe this. Anybody who knows the Reagan family would know that the chances of them doing anything for the Bush family is the same as a snowballs chance in hell. Nancy, Patti, Ron, Jr. (cool guy) - they all hate the Bush family. I wasn't a fan of the Reagan presidency, but this talk about the Reagan's using his death for Bush's political gain is just total nonsense. BTW: I know a close friend of Michael Deaver, who is very, very close to the Reagan family. He has told me, knowing of my interest in politics, that Nancy Reagan has actually written an anti-Bush Letter To The Editor (under a pseudonym) that was printed in the L.A. Times and nobody ever knew! Can't vouch for the story 100% - but it comes from somebody who wouldn't make that up. Plus, knowing of the Reagan family's disdain for the Bush's - I wasn't surprised.

[tom_paine]

65. Don't know that they'll have a choice

You think they can guard him 24/7? You think he isn't in a hospital environment, with nurses, orderlies, and totally under govt. control.

I don't know myself. You seem to have some distant connections. just where is Ronnie keeping himself these days?

Remember, the people who want him dead are also the ones in command of the nation and ultimately, a Naval Hospital.

But we'll wait and see. It will either happen or it won't.

[tobius]

68. " But we'll wait and see. It will either happen or it won't."

very perceptive. you sound a bit gleeful with your speculating--

"And I am 95% certain that Ronnie Raygun WILL die before the election. nature will have nothing to do with it. Like everything else the Imperial Family does, it will be phony and scripted.
Of course, a "phony and scripted" death is also called a murder "


"A needle full of potassium chloride solution behind the ear is undetectable and causes heart attack.
You really think anyone will be giving Raygun an autopsy? "

"I could have it all wrong, of course. I would rather that was the case. "

'And it will occur regardless of when Raygun dies, even if I am totally wrong (a possibility) "

" This is utter speculation and I am being upfront about it but my guess is probbaly a 75-25% split or so with non-loyal people being demoted or passed over or early retired as quick as they can at the CIA, FBI... everywhere. "

' Anything and everything is possible. All levels from totally wrong to completely dead-balls-on-accurate are still possible.

" I don't know myself. You seem to have some distant connections. just where is Ronnie keeping himself these days?

"..it's impossible to know.


You have a very unusual imagination, but does that make your hunches accurate? Obviously not because you told us you have nothing to base them on except that they are possible. Many things are possible, including the high esteem you place your contributions to journalism,broadcasting or politics, but possible does not make it likely.

[tom_paine]

78. You think I'm gleeful about machinations which are destroying our nation?

You're mistaken.

And as for my imagination, it's not imagination at all, but a carerful projection based on what I know about history, human nature and Tyrants.

Was Watergate imagined?

Iran-Contra?

The Tuskeegee Experiments?

COINTELPRO?

How 'bout the 1972 Argentina Coup? That imaginary?

When Livia murdered Augustus to secure the Imperial Throne for her son, were Tacitus and and his contemporaries suffering from the vapors?

Finally, you're last paragraph was a clear personal attack on me.

In response I might postulate that only the incompetent would misunderstand someone with self-confidence in their abilities, though of course I am speaking in generalities and not specifically about YOU.

[tobius]

83. you may confusing actual events with imagination.

Those events occurred therefore they are not imaginary. What you are calling " careful projection" is nothing more than a guess based on your vivid imagination.

But, if there were a contest on originality you may not place first, these ideas have been bounced back and forth on internet forums for months.

[tom_paine]

84. You missed my point utterly. Utterly.

Yes, I am well aware of the semanitic difference between the examples I posted.

My point had nothing to do with that. What point I was making was regarding the venality of people where power is concerned, and I mentioned examples which correlated that such things have happened and have continued right up until very recently.

My point was that to dismiss them was to dismiss human nature, or to suddenly think corruption of this type had gone extinct or happened every place and every time except here and now.

But you missed that pont and chose to erect a starwman and then follow up with ANOTHER personal attack, which certainly lends credibility to your sneering contempt.

[turnhardleft]

67. Forget double. Try Quad or Penta

Remember the DUI against bush? These folks have some dirt on Kerry that will blow that out of the water. You know it and so does Kerry.

[Skittles]

85. f*** the DUI

how about killing 550 soldiers and thousands of Iraqi civilians BASED ON LIES ???????? WILL IT TOP THAT ??????????????????????

[Vernunft II]

74. We need to get the message through that

people lost their job because of Bush before they loose their TV to the repo man. After that people will be out of the loop and join the 75 % non voters the USA has already.

[jean]

75. If Reagan expires during the Bush residency, it will trigger endless

discussion of failed trickle down econ policies.

[tom_paine]

81. Was that how it worked when Nixon died?

Not that I remember. And the Pravda is much worse now and Raygun never actually got caught (not that he was doing anything, the Busheviks were behind his senile back, I imagine)

[Wapsie B]

76. If Ronnie kicks before the election,

it will not be due to anything the Reagan family did. There is absolutely no love lost at all between the Reagans and the Shrubs.

[LeftHander]

79. Bush plots to kill Reagen keeps Osama at Ranch

That would be cool!

That's just crazy....

(on edit)

It's friday..

[PATRICK]

82. Other things could be timed

and not be termed accidental, such as the "exciting" choice of a new VP who would be the opposite of Cheney and - hidden from the public- absolutely cut out of decision making a la Powell, Whitman etc.

So long as the media plays their song there are several big options, palatable to Bush or not, besides actually becoming the "new Bush".

The Dems have not reasonably challenged BBV, the "missing" Osama, or anything else until the too dumb media gets around to it. I admit the media has not given life to any Dem concerns when they do occur, but they have absolutely deserted the stage to the "bully pulpit" myth and the Right Wing parrot machine. Every time the AEI CATO or some other right wing voice gets quoted they need to get louder for equal time and identifying the bias and the fallacies.

As a result, we only depend on the fog bound populace resisting silently and in mostly ignorance the telegraphed punches about to come with banners and bands marching across the airwaves and papers.

[Zan_of_Texas]

86. more imagination stuff

Well, here goes. (Remember, you asked! So, you can call me Chief Worrier from now on.)

I think it's possible that Osama is dead. He was engaged in regular kidney dialysis way back before 9-11. The US has attempted to stonewall that information, at least at the early stages -- later they admitted it. At least one photo of him post-9-11 looked like he was in not so good shape.

What if the relations between the various bin Ladens are not all that strained? What if BushCo needed a villain, and they said, Osama, fella, you ain't got long for this world, how about you be it? No one will ever know when or where you keel.

Because it IS true that when you are the biggest and baddest country, and there is no military competitor in sight, you MUST invent enemies or provoke them in order to keep the military money machine going. And, an enemy helps the president consolidate power. And, fear has been the key to tremendous constitutional incursions by the Prez and his men.

Beyond that, Ronnie's death is certainly possible. If all other distractions (Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, etc etc) fail, there's always trying to revive the "debate" about putting Ronnie on the dime instead of FDR.

But, I fear a biochemical attack on the American people. The odd string of deaths of microbiologists, at least a dozen or two, makes me uneasy. God only knows what's being cooked up. I wonder if the outbreaks of disease on cruise ships were controlled experiments.

I also worry that a number of people in government will be taken out at once. Cheney had very heavy equipment at the VP residence for many months (that was maybe a year ago?), groundshaking stuff, apparently digging something major, no one would say what. There is discussion/hearings/etc. about changing the entire presidential succession order, throwing Congress out of the line and substituting Cabinet members (how tickled am I to have Ashcroft on any list of presidential succession? -- beyond words). (see next post)

In addition, one of the stooges the BBV gang has been watching has testified at Congress about how long it would take to have elections in event of loss of many elected officials. He said 45 - 60 days PLUS some time to seat newly elected people. The mere fact of this "inquiry" makes my skin crawl. YMMV -- maybe you will consider it outstanding contingency planning.

Testimony
United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary
Ensuring the Continuity of the United States Government: The Congress.
September 9, 2003

Mr. R. Doug Lewis
Executive Director, CERA
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/2003_h/030909-lewis.htm
The Election Center -- an international association of voter registration and election officials
Houston, TX 77077

Testimony for U.S. Senate Hearings
On Disasters and Special Elections
Senate Judiciary Committee
Subcommittee on Constitution

Senators and Distinguished Guests:

Thank you for providing an opportunity for the nation's elections administrators to have input into these hearings about how Congress would fill vacancies in the Congress should a national disaster occur.

It is sobering indeed to have to contemplate a situation that would require the use of any special provisions, whether natural disasters or human caused disasters. In a climate where, for some, it is acceptable to use violence rather than votes to achieve their goals, the planning is made necessary about how to react and replenish our democracy's representatives. This planning process can even have the positive attribute of covering all manners of disasters which would otherwise might not have received careful review and planning necessitated by either natural or human disasters. <snip>

The genius of American democracy is that it creates fundamental faith in voters that it is fair, free, and has great integrity. But sometimes it is terribly inefficient and cumbersome and time consuming and maddeningly frustrating in its complexities, and yet it works. In order to accomplish an election within 21-days means that we would have to suspend many state laws and procedures just to accomplish the task and many of the voter protections that are contained in the current system.

<snip>
Additionally, what does Congress set as a threshold for what constitutes a "national emergency"? Is it the loss of 25 members? 50 members? 100 members? A quorum? <more>

[Zan_of_Texas]

87. presidential succession link

Here's a story on the presidential succession.

Feb. 25, 2004, 8:00AM
Cornyn bill rearranges presidential succession

By MICHAEL HEDGES
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle Washington Bureau
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.hts/politics/2418720

WASHINGTON --Legislation introduced this month by Senate Republicans, including Texan John Cornyn, would dramatically change the way presidential succession works. Should the president become incapacitated along with the vice president, members of Congress would be ineligible for the top leadership position in favor of Cabinet members.

"We really didn't have a workable plan if the terrorist attacks of 9/11 had been successful and the heroic passengers had not stopped that plane in Pennsylvania (that the FBI has said was aimed at Washington)," Cornyn said. "We began looking at exactly what would happen, and the more we scratched away, the more problems we saw."

At this time, if a president and vice president were killed, the speaker of the House would become president. Next in line would be the president pro tem of the Senate, a senior member of the majority party. Cornyn and other lawmakers, along with a number of scholars and researchers, think the law is outdated and may be unconstitutional.

The bill he introduced with Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi would remove members of Congress from the line of succession. Instead, Cabinet members, beginning with the secretary of state and followed by the treasury secretary, defense secretary, attorney general and the homeland security director, would form the line behind the president and vice president. <more>

[x-g.o.p.er]

88. Thoughts and comments, but no flames

I agree there will be a surprise, but I think it will be a continuous roll, starting right after the Peoples Republic Convention in NYC...OR...

Reagan dies somewhere right before the convention, that way they can continue the Reagan lovefest (with extra free air time so the story doesn't die and keeps its legs...OR

he dies during or immediately after the Democratic convention, to take any and all positive press away from the Democratic nominee.

I think UBL is a given...not too long after Reagan. During the "capture" of UBL it will be learned that he was in contact with Iranian leaders, planning some sort of dastardly plot against the US...possibly with nukulur weapons, or WMD's from Iraq that were "smuggled" there by Saddam prior to the war. This conveniently solves the WMD issue for the administration, and will constitute a "major crisis" and we will be perpetually scared every day until the election.

Kerry (I am assuming he will win the nomination based on the course of events so far) will be forced onto the defensive and unable to present his plan for America. He will be further demagogued as a pacifist/anti-war/far left radical who would welcome the attack and overthrow of our government by Islamic radicals. There will be some sort of "scandal" linking him in some absurd way to some Muslim extremist organization, and will be believed without question by the lemmings we call the American electorate.

With the Diebold machines in place in critical districts in critical states, the undecideds will heavily "break" for the president the weekend before the election, giving Bush a supposed "landslide" and a "mandate" to wage war with Iran. He won't even wait until the inaguration, because the threat will be "too great."

I see this as clear as I've ever seen anything in my life.