No work? Ha! India is CREATING American jobs!

[wellstone_democrat]

Just ask Thomas Friedman:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/26/opinion/26FRIE.html

He weent to India, what he found was that India is busily creating jobs for Americans! While those IT people work, they are in a cocoon where:

"All the computers are from Compaq. The basic software is from Microsoft. The phones are from Lucent. The air-conditioning is by Carrier, and even the bottled water is by Coke, because when it comes to drinking water in India, people want a trusted brand."

Now, I'll leave it to someone else to confirm or deny that the up-tick in CPUs from Compaq actually translates into manufacturing or sales jobs in the US as opposed to that also being outsourced but my own suspicion is that Friedman is once again defending the neocon status quo as he does in all things.

[Bandit]

1. I'm sure they are busy working right now to change that also.

It won't be long before the computers are made in India and the software is made in India and the Air conditioners are made in China. All of those items are about to be "out sourced" as well. So enjoy while we can because "out-sourcing" is gooooood

[Nlighten1]

2. Not so fast.

HP/Compaq is leading the way in moving jobs out of America. They have a server that is being completely designed and manufactured in Singapore that will be out soon and I imagine their PC business will go the same way.

[wellstone_democrat]

3. doesn't Coke use local bottlers

everywhere even o'seas? My memory is that I have seen that on soda bought in Europe and the far east.

Seriously, is any of this made in the US? What of the sale of these items? Aren't those handled through call centers?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. Yup, Coke has always been locally bottled

so Coca-Cola is creating jobs in hundreds of foreign countries. Most computer companies assemble their machines in Southeast Asia.

[onecitizen]

34. In fact, Bill Moyer addressed this......

issue on one of his shows. Seems Coke is taking the only water fit to drink from the Indians and the locals are upset about it. Sorry, I don't remember the details of the piece.

[Cleita]

6. Well, I just dumped my POS Compaq computer and soon

will dump my POS hp printer. If they don't do anything about the quality of their products and services, no one is going to buy their POS equipment a second time. I know I won't, no matter how much they say they have fixed the problem, because I have already moved on to something that works better and will probably buy that brand again.

[Bandit]

14. What brand have you settled on? I hate my Compact and my Dell

I loved my Mac and still kick the living shit out of myself for going PC a few years ago. I was told by a few that the newer PCs were just as good and maybe even better. Boy were they ever wrong. At least that is my experience.

[Cleita]

22. I have something now called a toaster.

Pretty off-brand but it's working great so far. Since I have very little space I was using laptops. This is about a foot square. The case is clear plastic so you can see all the stuff inside. They custom built it to what I would use and it cost me less tham replacing the motherboard on my Compaq would have. If you are interested PM me and I will give you the brand and what it cost me.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. I read this this morning - GREAT propaganda!

Read carefully - and notice when he switches from "America" to "American companies". As in "Americans are afriad of outsourcing, but it will be good for American (companies).

A lot of those Dell computers ARE NOT made in the US, you know. But this is a good sign - they are VERY terrified of the anti-corporate backlash that offshoring jobs is causing.

[wellstone_democrat]

8. I think some of the Dells are still made in TX prisons

The guy who runs it is a GB* pal and the prisons were very involved in being the "labor pool" for Dell. The details are on-line I understand, but when I arrived in the state many people enthusiastically educated me on why I should not buy Dell---quite the movement here in some Austin/San Antonio circles.

My guess is if Huntsville isn't doing the work now either Mexico or China is..

[wellstone_democrat]

9. Ah yes, American companies like that one

buy American products from other American companies whose workers are NOT American..

Really, why are we bitchin'!? Its win, win, win! /sarcasm

[tom_paine]

5. I had no idea Friedman was this much of a Bushevik

Yes, Tom, and tress cause pollution.

Once we get rid of 'em...PROBLEM SOLVED!

Screw these Orwellian Liars and Media Whores. Hopefully, there is a particularly hot section of hell reserved for them.

[drb]

7. Well, well. Ain't that nice.

The people in India have jobs in air-conditioned offices, working on Compaq computers, drinking bottled water.

In the U.S., we're living with the windows open because we can't afford an air-conditoner, or even the electric bill for that matter, because we ain't got no jobs!

[BillZBubb]

10. Friedman is a hopeless moron.

He appeals to middle of the roaders who don't have a clue.

[DK666]

11. Yes

But is the software LEGAL. Copyright laws SICK the DMA and RIIA on em.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. Candy-ass wimps; Reagan would have redefined "American job"

to include any that does work in the United States. Hey, the Filipino woman who's helping me with my Earthlink problem is working with an American, isn't she?

[nicehuman]

17. re: redefining jobs ala Reagan

funny you should mention redefining jobs. I understand Bush is redefining fast food jobs as manufacturing jobs to manipulate the number of lost manufacturing jobs.

[PurityOfEssence]

21. Would you like rivets with that whopper?

Truly a case of life imitating art; if you've read Michael Moore's "Dude, Where's My Country", you'll remember the long rant on whoppers...

[Ksec]

13. Freidman cant see the forests for the trees

as is true of most neocons. Wasnt Freidman a smart guy once? Wahappand?

[Zero Gravitas]

15. Outsource Friedman's job

and see how he likes it. He confuses what is good for "American"/Bermudian/Multinational Corporations and whats good for America/Americans. So what if some giant corp is making money? Why the fuck should I care?

The whole concept is obscene some CEO making a 8 figure salary thinks that middle class Americans making 5 figures are a drag on his bottom line. Well fuck him and the entire corporate power structure.

If this is the best the apologists can up with they are completely out of touch with reality. "let them make hamburgers" indeed.

[idlisambar]

16. lame analysis

Americans doing the same work use most of the same products -- Microsoft, HP, Coke, etc. -- so I don't see how his point has much relevence to employment. It's nice that they are using some American products, but it is not that important in the overall trade picture.

[Buns_of_Fire]

18. Hmmmmm..... Let's see here.....

(Follow the magic links!)

"All the computers are from Compaq. The basic software is from Microsoft. The phones are from Lucent. The air-conditioning is by Carrier, and even the bottled water is by Coke, because when it comes to drinking water in India, people want a trusted brand."

(I didn't bother looking up any reference for Coke, since all their bottling plants are relatively local anyway.)

I know I feel more secure! :eyes: (And I also want some of what Friedman's smoking -- especially since I won't have to worry about company drug tests anymore! :smoke: )

[teryang]

19. great post!

Friedman never bothers concerning himself with facts, they interfere with the talking points. Talking points used to be marketing, now they substitute for journalism.

How does that whore look in the mirror?

[Ksec]

20. Like Dobbs said tonight as he belittled Freidman

That Freidman failed to mention the humongous trade deficit with India. Ditto the Why let facts get in the way...

[Buns_of_Fire]

25. Thank you. Sometimes I get lucky.

(Although, to be honest, it's just as easy to leaf through what Lou Dobbs has... For anyone interested, the link to the "Exporting America" list is near the bottom of the page -- it's a popup...)

[Kimber Scott]

23. My husband works

for a call center here is the US run by and Indian company. Go figure.

[_Jumper_]

27. Furriners don't create jobs in America

;)

[Kimber Scott]

33. What's a Furriner?

Oh. Now I get it! LOL!

[_Jumper_]

26. How'd America create 22 million jobs under Clinton?

Why wasn't free trade causing a loss of jobs then????

[idlisambar]

28. service sector jobs

our manufacturing sector was hurt by free trade even in the booming 90's, but hardly anybody noticed.

[Elwood P Dowd]

30. And the service jobs

that replaced the manufacturing jobs paid about 30% less and had fewer benefits. The same phenomenon is happening with the white collar or hi tech jobs leaving. Millions of workers are making less money than they made just a couple of years ago.

[Elwood P Dowd]

29. Those agreements

NAFTA and GATT/WTO, didn't go into effect until 1994 and 1995. Many companies played the "Wait and see" game for a few years before they made the plunge. Many companies that remained in the US started getting clobbered by their competition who moved to Mexico or SE Asia, and then they also moved. It takes a few years for this to build up. Also, you had the dot.com, internet, hi-tech, and stock market news covering for the manufacturing job exodus.

Companies that moved production later started moving engineering and design offshore as well. Next thing you know, everybody and their brother is looking into moving jobs offshore to make some extra pocket change. This created a new "Outsourcing Industry" where you even had American companies created who specialized in assisting companies move their work offshore. Even State and Federal Government agencies are now assisting companies who want to move jobs offshore. The big dog has now eaten his tail and is gnawing it's way through the hind quarters.

[rman]

31. Many of those product are outsourced as well.

Many of the corporations mentioned do outsource their production.
So these are typically not US jobs.

And don't talk to Indian people about coke as a trusted brand; coca cola got sued in India for poluting local natural water reserves in India. You see, Coca Cola is one of those outsourcing corporations; those to are not US jobs.

In fact one could argue that most of these corporations are de facto not US corporations. They may have started in the US but they have become international corporations who produce where labor is cheapest and stash their money where fiscal rules are most corporate friendly - all primarily to the benefit of the CEO's and shareholders, who form only a small minority of the global population.

[KG]

32. Thomas Friedman: american moron.

[sunnynair]

35. Paul Krugman's take

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/27/opinion/27KRUG.html?hp

[moondust]

36. Creating new customers through outsourcing.

What do you do when the "rich" countries become saturated with the types of products you are selling? Find potential customers elsewhere. What if those potential customers can't afford to buy your stuff? Give them some jobs/money so they can, eventually.

Don't ask me if it works. Even if it does and the company finds new customers for its products and manages to survive a little longer, the U.S. worker is left out of the loop and is screwed. And once the offshore subsidiary figures out how to operate on its own and amasses enough capital, the U.S. management will no longer be needed. Screwed all around!

[evil_orange_cat]

37. Friedman failed to mention the growing $8billion dollar trade deficit...

... the US has with India. Nice try, but no cigar. Krugman is the guy NYTimes readers should be listening to. Friedman is a pud.