How will your vote for Nader improve America?

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

I know many of us here are pissed at the Democratic Party for so many reasons. The party has sucked for quite some time. There is no doubt about that. I, however, am an American before I am a Democrat and there is no doubt to any of us here that if George Bush is reelected, the very fabric of our democracy will be seriously threatened. I know it's hard to get enthusiastic about Kerry, who increasingly becomes another Gore, but if we lose this election, there is no telling what the Republican dominated government will do; I do not want to see live in a country that is dominated by Bush, Delay, and Scalia. Do you? There is a choice. You have a choice. Sure, Kerry and the Dems do kinda suck but you cannot say that there will be no difference between a Kerry presidency and another Bush term. So I ask all Nader voters, how did your vote for Nader in 2000 improve America and how will your Nader vote in 2004 improve America? I say, first we take back our country from pure evil and then we take back our party.

[Gman]

1. Sample answer:

A vote for Nader will outlaw gay marriage, reclassify hamburger flipping jobs as manufacturing jobs, raise unemployment to the 15 - 20% range, record exporting of American jobs, a deep dark hole low American dollar value that will cause 25 - 30% inflation initally, plus the ever popular perpetual war for religious "christian" moral reasons and oil.

I forgot a SCOTUS full of Scalia clones.

[x-g.o.p.er]

3. Not to mention...

Corporations writing the air and environmental policies, and the passage of Patriot Act III, IV, and V.

[WI_DEM]

2. i'm not voting for Nader, but

isn't it the same thing that was said about Clinton? take the country back from the first Bush and then try and change the party. The party went further to the right as Clinton co-opted GOP ideas and under under the guidance of Dick Morris often tried to find "common ground" rather than standing up for Democratic principles.

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

7. I'm proud of Clinton's presidency

Sure, it wasn't perfect, but he was a damn good president. The difference is real. Democrats = peace/prosperity; Republicans = war/recession.

[Old and In the Way]

17. You do remember that Republicans controlled Congress for 4/8 years

right? The House was controlled for 6/8, IIRC. Clinton's universal health care proposal was probably a contributing factor. Sadly, I wonder how the American people would view this in light of the health industry mess that we have today.

[noiretextatique]

4. any CAST AND COUNTED vote

would be an improvement over the fiasco of 2000.
republicans will need to cheat to win...again. how about we focus on making sure people who are eligible to vote get to do so? if that had happened in 2000...

[Kahuna]

5. "Improve America?" What does that have to do with my vote?

</sarcasm off>

[YNGW]

6. Fuzzy Math

I keep seeing people here saying "A vote for Nader is a vote that will keep Bush in office."

Actually, this is only half true, and only if the voter would otherwise vote for the Democratic nominee. If you were planning to sit out the election or cast a protest vote for another third-party candidate, and you vote for Nader instead, the effect on the presidential race is exactly the same: nil.

If you decide to vote for Nader instead of John Kerry (or whoever is the Democratic nominee), then it's true that you're taking away a vote from Kerry--but you're not giving it to Bush. For simplicity's sake, let's say there are nine people in the electorate, and they split 5-4 for Kerry over Bush. If one voter switches to Bush, the split would be 5-4 in the president's favor. But if he switched to Nader instead, the split would be 4-4-1.

For those who want an accurate slogan, it should be "A vote for Nader instead of Kerry is half a vote to keep Bush in office."

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

8. You didn't answer my question.

How will a vote for Nader improve America?

[YNGW]

15. I don't know that it will.

I simply respect people to make the decision that is right for them. Obviously, they have their reasons for voting Nader.

[drdigi420]

10. you misrepresent the theme

the theme being that a vote for Nader is a wasted vote, which helps Bush


nice try to belittle those that see the real threat caused by nader's selfishiness

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

11. I'm not belittling anyone

I am asking an honest question that you still have yet to answer.

[Gman]

16. The hard math is

that whoever has the most votes in a state wins the electoral votes for that state. There are two main candidates that can win. The Dem and the W. If W gets the most votes he wins the state and he doesn't need a majority of the votes. In our system, a plurality is good enough. If Bush wins a state with 40%, Kerry 38%, Nader 5% others 17%, then those 5% are wasted votes and gave the state to Bush.

Is someone going to presume we are stupid enough to believe that anyone that votes for Nader would have Bush as a second choice if they didn't vote Nader? That's what the Nader people would have us believe (which goes to their lack of credibility, but I digress). That notion is absurd on its face and an insult to everyone's intelligence.

I'm not a "moral absoluteness" type person but to me the real moral choice is clear. You don't vote for Nader and you don't vote for Bush. You vote for the Democratic nominee. Voting for Nader or Bush is tantamount to flushing the country down the toilet.

[bowens43]

9. I'm voting for Kerry but.....

If a person feels that voting for Nader is the right choice, it will help America by taking a small step toward returning integrity the electoral process.

[Zero Gravitas]

12. How?

I don't see how voting for Nader would be "a small step toward returning integrity the electoral process".

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. People, everyday people, did not start to care about

about election reform until 2000.

Those votes of conscience do garner attention, but sometimes at a very steep price. :(

BUT, now that more people _are_ paying attention, maybe if the changes start coming people will stop making those statement votes?

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

13. fair enough

I understand that.