a question about the Passion movie......

[Desertrose]

I haven't seen it and don't plan on seeing it...but I am curious.
I was taught from a wee lass back in Sunday School that Jesus died for my sins...he suffered so I wouldn't have to- and that he took this on as his choice...to save so much suffering.

...well, if this is the case, why are so many people, 2000 years later, going to a movie that so focuses on the suffering and pain Christ experienced (so we wouldn't have to) that they are basically reliving it themselves?? This focus on pain and humilation and suffering seems to eclipse his entire life's work and message. I can't imagine he would be too pleased that so many have gotten stuck in all that pain that it cause such anger and fear...even a heart attack!

Why do we feel the need to put our selves through this and yet ignore all the suffering that is currently going on in the ME?

Why is it so "OK" to get into this movie, yet ignore the terrible things done to others in the name of Christ ( or any other religious figure) that is happening around us on a daily basis??

(I ask this about the many who are "unconscious" or "unenlightened"...who blindly follow what is told to them....)

Just something to think about...I have my own thoughts on this but thought maybe you guys would like to discuss (or whatever).

Peace...and love...and forgiveness....
DR


its OK mods if you have to lock this...I was just curious....I know there seem to be a lot of Passion threads :)

[BigDaddyLove]

1. I would venture a guess that the violence is necessary so that....

those who accept that Jesus did indeed die for their sins can REALLY get a good look at how much he suffered for said believers.

If one truly understands the suffering Jesus endured in your name, then it makes his sacrifice that much more powerful.

I think.

[chemenger]

2. I honestly believe

that watching a man being tortured for 2 hours appeals to a baser instinct in many people.

Although scientists have found that the human brain is hardwired to be empathetic to another living being's suffering ... can't prove it by me. Just recall the beating that 10-year-old took on his school bus.

The same with Christ's suffering ... a lot of people are morbidly fascinated by it although they would surround their fascination in a religious context.

Personally, I ABSOLUTELY have no intention of ever seeing this movie.
I understand that Mel excersised his artistic license in the final cut.

A crow pecking out the bad thief's eyes ... not in the Bible.

And possibly the greatest defining moment in Christ's life, when he said with his next-to-his-last dying breath, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do" makes a truly God-fearing person really question Mel's purpose in making this film.

[Fozzledick]

14. I have to agree with you you

As I wrote in another thread, I don't see any spirtiuality in this film, just sado-masochistic pornography.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

3. what i can't get over

is the need for all these Christians to SEE what happened. Is their faith not strong enough to believe without seeing?

[StClone]

4. I think there is some soul searching going on by Christians

I will probably see "The Passion" for whatever reason. Comments I've heard made by viewers, Non-believers and Christians (especially scholars) is that it is violent and probably inaccurately so.

Christians view the movie to invigorate their faith seeing the absolute pain that Jesus endured to save their souls in giving his life.

Christian Scholars are on your side. Christ's value was his life of teachings not only his self-sacrifice. His Crucification was the climax but is only the end of the story (though the linchpin of Christianity). Jesus (and God) would no more want us to focus solely on his death any more than sitting around staring at our navels.

I have no problem with Christians captivation with the movie. But listen to Jesus's words and live them the rest of the year. The movie does raise interest in Jesus but in a way that sacrifices Jesus whole life for a few gory hours that are Gibson's vi$ion.

[supernova]

5. Substitute suffering

I think a lot of Mel's desired response (and the response of many RR evangelicals so far) has more to do with how cushy our modern lives are here in the US than whether or not Jesus would want us to "relive" his death on celluloid.

We drive our big AC-ed SUVs to school and soccer, we surf the net, we stay in touch w/ cellphones. We have homes, heat, and plenty of food year round. That is, most of us do. We rarely if ever have to spend time with a homeless person, an addict, a prostitute. The biggest things we worry about are Janet Jackson's boob, are video games too violent?, is the president a moron?, who gets to have sex with whom.

So much of it is so trivial it isn't even funny anymore, just pathetic. We obsess over the wrong things at the expense of legitimate issues: How to care for those who are ill?, how to help the homeless, how to feed the hungry, how to reach out on frienship to those would would harm us?

Through using the most popular figure of all time, this movie might make the danger of living seem more real to those of us who live in a society overly concerned with plastic and artificial concerns.

If this movie, even if inadvertantly, refocuses our attention on the suffering here in our time, then it might serve a useful purpose.


edit: clarification and I still can't quite get it right. arrgh!

[StClone]

8. You know

Even in seeing the movie I think most Americans can not relate to it on the basis you note. We have no comprehension because we are so insulated from absolute hunger, cold or pain other than the imaginary fears we create -- illusions of lost wealth, looks, or power. (I'll point out most of what Conservatives fear is imagined.)

It was learned early on in human history that individuals are more successful than one individual. It seems we are more isolated today due to wealth and technology. To what ends?

[supernova]

11. I don't know

It seems we are more isolated today due to wealth and technology. To what ends?

Except that there appears to be less spontaneous community. Used to be, no matter where you went, you interacted with the people you found there. You were separate from the mother ship as it were. I'm thinking of a diner. You go, order your meal, usually breakfast no matter the time of day. You talk to the overworked but friendly waitress, the cook if s/he isn't too busy, other customers. You talk about sports, the weather, aren't our leaders morons or is the war a good idea? The waitress tells you she can't afford daycare for her child, but she has to try anyway.

My point is you went out in public and heard other peoples stories. Some were different from you; some were similar. You compared notes. Sometimes you got your ideas reinforced; sometimes you changed your mind.

I'm not so sure that happens as much anymore. More that tech gadgets serve to keep us in touch with our own private echo chamber. We don't talk to the people on the subway because we're too busy listening to our iPods or Rush; or sharing our cell phone conversation with anyone within earshot. We don't go across the stree to play outdoors, because we'd rather stay in and play video games.

Don't get me wrong. I love technology. If there's a button around, I'll push it. But , somebody please tell me I'm wrong. :shrug:

[G_j]

6. wouldn't Jesus want people to be

alleviating the suffering of others instead of obsessing on his?
What about the people being tortured right now as we speak? What about the sweat shops, the hunger.......etc.??

[scarletwoman]

7. I find it troubling and very sad.

If ever there has been a time for serious look at the true TEACHINGS of Jesus -- love, tolerance, simplicity, compassion -- this is surely an urgent time.

Yet what are we being subjected to instead? A sadistic gore-fest, literal red meat for the slavering demagogues, pornographic violence and morbid titillation.

Another poster said it best, "Jesus wept."

sw

[G_j]

9. If I actually believed in

666 and the deceptions of Satan, I would say this pretty well fits the description. Leading people to turn the message of love into hate in "his" name.

that tricky devil :mad:

[ochazuke]

10. Difference between intellectual and emotional understanding

I think that the purpose of the display of the suffering of Jesus is to make the viewer feel the impact of the event. It's one thing to understand what happened, another thing to have witnessed the event.

I saw the movie last night, and though I am a non-beliving atheist who thinks Gibson could have achieved that goal without the divisive political spin, all the supernatural manifestations, and what I thought was racist casting, I am left this morninng with the emotional residue of the suffering.

While I was watching it, I couldn't help but remember that most so-called Christians in America are solidly in favor of capitol punishment.

[Desertrose]

12. some good discussion here....

thanks

certainly a lot to think about.....

also this movie is a distraction from what is happening in the "real world" maybe??


Peace
DR

[Walt Starr]

13. This movie is about one thing and one thing only

Appealing to the baser instincts within human animals in order to better control them through religion.

It's the passion plays of the middle ages all over again which lead directly to things like The Inquisition, The Crusades, and the Witch Hunts.

[Desertrose]

15. I hate to agree with you Walt, but I think you are on to something...

seems like everything is to create more fear for "control purposes" these days.

feels like we are back in the middle ages...bush* has his crusde (against Islam-again), inquisition (homeland security and Patriot act) and oh yeah the witch hunts ( gay marriages, non christians, liberals).

pretty scary stuff....

Peace
DR

[dand]

16. Absolutely right on,

It is a repeat of a myth from a prior religion, concocted to control the unwashed masses. To see people whip themselves into a frenzy over something like this is scary indeed.

[MrPrax]

17. Good points...

Especially this one sticks out...

"...well, if this is the case, why are so many people, 2000 years later, going to a movie that so focuses on the suffering and pain Christ experienced (so we wouldn't have to) that they are basically reliving it themselves??"

But are they reliving it anymore than they are RELIVING storming the beaches on D-Day or reliving the destruction of an Imperial death star?

For 2000 years people came to the Passion through 'imagination' and 'sermon' and 'faith'...NOT THX-laden Hollywood manipulations.

It is actually quite sad that some Christians will have the most profound spiritual experience of their lives in a multiplex at the local mall...

Who needs churches

If anything this gives pause to think that maybe Islam and Judeaism is not all that wrong for prohibiting 'graven images'?

(Wake me if the the Christians start taking 'libruls' hostage like the Hanafi Muslim sect did back in 1976 )