Is DU still Progressive? Is it even "underground" anymore?

[Dhalgren]

I've been reading this board for over two years; lurking for a long time, then last summer I joined up and paid my dues and started joining in the "mix". I have enjoyed in greatly - everyone knows how great it feels to be part of this board. How great it used to feel, anyway.

I understand how people can become partisan over this or that candidate - it is the nature of politics, but I am dismayed at the increasing number and level of conservative voices now present on this board. It used to be, in the "old days" that much of the discussion was mutually supportive and everyone gained. Most of our "flame wars" were over what "progressive" meant and what it did and did not include; how best to address our concerns and who was being rude or tasteless about religion or "gutter" politics.

Now, a lot of the arguments are between those holding "liberal" views and those holding "conservative" ones. We have "proud" supporters of the DLC on here, for the gods' sake! And no one would deny DLCers are concervative.

It's one thing to battle back and forth on the field of ideas and candidacies, but for this board to become another conservative Democratic platform is truly a shame.

I really hate to leave this board, I have enjoyed it so much, but everyday, I enjoy it less.

[Forkboy]

1. Negative on both counts

sadly.

[bahrbearian]

2. Exactly how I feel, I spend less time here now!

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. :( That's sad

I haven't been here that long.

Or rather. I tried to join up about a year or so ago, but felt like I was run out on a rail because of my username.

Obviously, I came back and toughed out the Nader haters and found many other folks who feel like I do about issues of the day.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. Most voters like bush's policies but just don't like bush

Now that it is all but assured that the Democrats will run a candidate who can be counted on to maintain the status quo, but phrase it in a nicer way, more people feel more comfortable about their support for the policies themselves, now that they can be separated from bush.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. What a fucking crock of fucking shit

And you all wonder why this site has deteriorated.

People like yourself that indicrminately TOSS THAT FUCKING LIE around are what meade it that way.

For the record to the thread starter...yeah...I'm still progressive just not progressive enough for some.

So fucking sue me.

[Forkboy]

21. Jeez

How's the blood pressure doing?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Not well when such glittering generalities are tossed around

This site used to be more than propaganda designed to hasten our own demise.

[DuctapeFatwa]

26. So who said you aren't progressive?

Progressive is a very relative term.

The PNAC rewrite Kerry favors even calls invasions "Progressive Interventions"

There will be some very visible and very progressive cosmetic changes.

The small shrill minority that continues to whine about a few thousand dead Muslim children are not with America, and there is plenty of time after the election to let the Patriot Act clean those folks up.

[Indiana Democrat]

5. DLCers are Moderate.

Adn it's called "DEMOCRATICunderground" as much, if not more than "democraticUNDERGROUND".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. deleted..misread the handle

sorry

[SonofMass]

18. How does a dead guy diet?

.

[Indiana Democrat]

19. I like bunnys!

Love is good.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. you're right

misread the handle
sorry

[Indiana Democrat]

25. No problem.

Thanks for the quick response.

[chiburb]

27. Green, green, it's green they say...

The New Christy Minstrels?

[Lars39]

24. That's out of line.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lars39]

40. Embarrassment is nothing new to me. Pardon me for the mistake.

You can now edit your subject line. Calling someone clueless isn't very nice either.

[Atlant]

37. You'll find that's a pretty common "method" among some. (NT)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

43. I owned what I did, the mistake I made and apologized publicly

as well as personally

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

38. I'm not terribly in agreement about the DLC part, sorry

As with all organizations there are contributory members and some that are totally off the mark.

While one can claim they are moderate, From and Reed's commentaries have been disastrous and while they can claim to have won the White House, that then means they should OWN losing the White House, the Senate and Congress.

I simply was REACTING to someone other than you.

They have drafted some good policy papers but they have been on the wrong wide of labor issues and poverty issues specifically and the memo they sent out prior to the mid terms encouraging members to vote FOR the war is what LED to even MORE distrust of Democrats as cynical political players in their own ranks.

Where they made money, the damaged and alienated morale of some LONGTIME party supporters....much more now has to go into GOTV efforts because of this...we used to be the most reliable group to show up at the polls...now it's a crap shoot...their short term strategy in 92 did some long term damage.

[ulysses]

35. LOL - bet I know

what you misread it as and roughly what your response was. :D

[Indiana Democrat]

36. Oh by the way...Let me guess...

You confused "Democrat" with "Green"??

If that's the case, I would have bashed me too!!!

:toast:

[Dhalgren]

33. This is what I was talking about.

To me "Moderate" is just a slightly milder form of "conservative". There are many "moderate" republicans, but so what?

[scottxyz]

6. A lot of the best people post less now

I think this is a phenomenon we see with all public networks - they decay over time.

Look at The Well, look at email (spam).

We need to learn to distinguish between "public" and "networked". Probably the best place to do real work is in a PRIVATE network of people who cooperate with you, rather than disrupting you.

There are by the way some invitation-only private networks out there.

[Dhalgren]

39. Thanks.

That's something I would like to check into.

[Dookus]

7. I will flatly deny that the DLC is conservative

they're centrist democrats. I don't agree with them on a lot of things, but it's crazy to call them conservatives.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. So would you call Barry Goldwater a moderate now?

Cause once upon a time he was considered a hardliner conservative, back in the day.

[Dookus]

12. umm...

no. What's that got to do with anything? I'm not defending Barry Goldwater. I'm defending the DLC against unfounded charges that they're "conservative". They are not. They are centrist.

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Their positions are not that far off from many of Goldwater's though

Even Nixon supported Universal healthcare.

See the point now?

Progressiveness, moderation, and conservativeness are all relative to what you stand them next to.

The DLC doesn't look moderate to me, but then I am WAY over here on the left.

[el_gato]

14. DLC not conservative but rather corporate servants traitors to democracy

foam if you will

[Uzybone]

9. I still think it is

its election season and people are trying to be pragmatic. Remember this is a Democrats board first...not a Dean board or an anti-war board or what ever pet issue seems to rankle different people from day to day board.

[Bandit]

30. Here is who the board is for

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals.

This is a "big tent" message board. We welcome a wide range of progressive opinion. You will likely encounter many points of view here that you disagree with.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

If you have been banned from Democratic Underground, you are not permitted to log on again using a different username. Previously banned members will be immediately banned, regardless of behavior.

People who repeatedly and willfully break the rules, or who generally engage in rude, antisocial behavior, will be banned. It doesn't matter if you are a progressive or a long-term member of this board.

[waterman]

10. I've noticed quite a shift in the tone around here too.

Maybe it's just a phase. Could be an election year curse we're having. I don't know if I'd pinpoint it down to the conservative angle, but more an increase in general hostilities. I think much of that comes from the daily compounding of frustrations created by the white house and it backers.

I think a lot of DU folks are feeling desperate and pessimistic right now. I don't doubt that it will shift back to it's old self at some point, but I'm not ready to give up on this place yet. It's brought too much enjoyment and enlightenment for me to bail out on it. I say hang in there. It will get better around here. I feel like I know these people and I'm not ready to jump ship on them just because things are a little shakey at the moment. Chin up.

[Rex]

15. The WWW is a sea of forums...all waiting for your opinion

If you feel like you're drowning on a particular one then move on sailor.

Personally I don't let other's hubris bring me down anymore.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. And I resent being called a conservative by some and a fringe leftist

by others. I've never experienced such wholesale hysterical typecasting until recently.

Yeah it's gotten ugly and damn near everyone played a role...there's plenty of snot and blame to go around.

[chiburb]

17. I don't know... Are communists conservative?

There seem to be an awful lot of hammer & sickle avatars, and members that subscribe to the "death to capitalism" school. It also seems that THEY are the ones contributing to the dis-course with numerous drive-by candidate-bashing posts of a line or two, designed to inflame or agitate.

I don't know, maybe they ARE just agitators, but well disguised. Or maybe I AM getting conservative in my dotage and am proving your point...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. They NEVER should have capped the post count

at 1000. Comparing the post counts and join dates would point out very clearly the people who came here with a non-progressive agenda, and the coordinated efforts of those groups.

[GreenPartyVoter]

44. nonononono

I got razzed for being a fake poster on another liberal site just because I happened to join on the same date as some neocon freeper invaders.

I did not enjoy the experience of being yelled at just for joining at the wrong time under the wrong name. (Which is that same as this one.)

[tom_paine]

28. We need you, Dhalgren. Please don't leave.

Consider these two possibilities for that which you have described:

1) A vast election-year increase in Professional Rovian Operatives. These animals don't come in a flamin' or say stupid stuff to get them banned. They are professionals, and I believe that if Rovian Operatives are here, then they are using precision and starting flame-wars, then running away so they don't get blamed. Or perhaps they also step in to revive flame wars when they are dyng down.

In either case, don't let those Bushevik Pigs chase you off of DU. Their presence, like all Bushevik ploys, in the end comes down to throwing up and inky cloud of shouting, confusion, and despair.

For every true progressive voice who leaves, those Operatives are given proportionally a louder voice. Don't let them win.

2) As has been pointed out above, I think, election years bring out people's passion. This leads to a heating-up of the rhetoric.

In either of these cases, Dhalgren, there's no reason for you to leave and (at least for the Rovian Option), every reason to stay.

Go to the Lounge for a few days (or weeks, however long you need). Vote in some nonsensical polls and yukk it up with your DU pals.

Feel better and most importantly, GET OUT AND WORK FOR KERRY (or whoever the nominee turns out to be) in November. Speak up to everyone you know. Let no more Bushevik Lies pass unchallenged! Write some letters to the editor exposing Bushevik Lies. Write a check to the ACLU, Sierra Club, the Kerry campaign, the DNC, or whoever you wish so long as they oppose the Imperiasls.

Just DON'T give up and sink into apathy and please don;t leave the board.

NOTE: I am not affiliated with the DU Admins & Mods in any way. i am speaking for no one but myself.

[Atlant]

41. "No!" to both questions. And that's unfortunate.

But there are alternatives.

Atlant

[Moderator]

45. Locking--DU rules

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#topics

Posts that are unrelated to politics or public policy belong in the Lounge or the Meeting Room.

Questions about Democratic Underground policies belong in the "Ask the Administrators" forum. All discussion topics relating to Democratic Underground policies, procedures, enforcement, etc., which are posted outside of the "Ask the Administrators" forum will be locked or deleted.